ChrisB Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I've been long sold on the classical curriculum approach to education, but as I try to articulate to my Catholic parish's school principal why we're homeschooling, I've found that my explanation of the classical approach is less than articulate, and I think that it's -- in part -- b/c I'm not familiar with the prevailing philosophy(ies) of education in traditional schools. I point to the language-based nature of the classical approach, as well as it's integration around history and the trivium principles, but I still don't sound convincing to myself. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Lend her your copy of the WTM. It will speak for itself, and she might choose to implement some of it in the parochial school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 It seems to me that there's a great deal of emphasis on group work and collaboration as a means to learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy g. Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 My friend's son was going to summer school for math because he wanted to be switched to honors Math. We were giving him incentives to make the 89% he needed to be moved up for this school year. My friend called and told me that they put him with a buddy who worked at a much lower level, and their grades were being combined. I can not even BEGIN to figure out the point of that, but his mom didn't want to question the school, because she was afraid it would just be used against her son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwka Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 This might help: (and it's totally Catholic) Why Modern Schools Fail : Philosophy Why Modern School Fail: Culture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I saw a teacher post a long waffly post on another site about how we homeschoolers couldn't provide constructivist learning. I'd never heard of it and when I Googled it, I had a good giggle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_%28learning_theory%29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Yep, constructivism is the big thing these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWSJ Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I saw a teacher post a long waffly post on another site about how we homeschoolers couldn't provide constructivist learning. I've never seen a public school provide even a basic environment for constructivist learning. Private schools and homeschoolers are the only way constructivism could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I've been long sold on the classical curriculum approach to education, but as I try to articulate to my Catholic parish's school principal why we're homeschooling, I've found that my explanation of the classical approach is less than articulate, and I think that it's -- in part -- b/c I'm not familiar with the prevailing philosophy(ies) of education in traditional schools. I point to the language-based nature of the classical approach, as well as it's integration around history and the trivium principles, but I still don't sound convincing to myself. Any thoughts? Who Killed Homer? by Victor Davis Hanson was huge in inspiring me to aspire to classical education. I seem to have put into storage before this last move, so I can't quote it. But I remember one passage in particular that pointed to teaching students that they had a place in a continuum, that the struggles they faced had also been faced down by others before them. That the loss of a parent or a child was a grief that had also been born by others. I found that this resonnated with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Well, in my 15 years in the ps realm the "unspoken" educational philosophy is the shotgun approach...shoot for the middle and hope some of the spray hits the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgm Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 summarizing from the discussion from the floor at our school board mtgs the last few years: Fair is equal. All children would be equal if their elitist parents didn't teach them at home. Our tax money should be spent on those who need it the most, not on furthering the 'gap' between students. The ones who are 'ahead' obviously got there because of private tutoring - since they are elites, they can pay for their children to take classes at the CC rather than using our tax money to pay for teachers for advanced classes. (i.e. no IB, no AP, no Calc I) Advanced classes are elitist. The fine arts are elitist. Sports are elitist. At this point, the board is focused on preparing students for remedial courses at the CC since the majority of the vocal populace wants no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-FL Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 summarizing from the discussion from the floor at our school board mtgs the last few years: Fair is equal. All children would be equal if their elitist parents didn't teach them at home. Our tax money should be spent on those who need it the most, not on furthering the 'gap' between students. The ones who are 'ahead' obviously got there because of private tutoring - since they are elites, they can pay for their children to take classes at the CC rather than using our tax money to pay for teachers for advanced classes. (i.e. no IB, no AP, no Calc I) Advanced classes are elitist. The fine arts are elitist. Sports are elitist. At this point, the board is focused on preparing students for remedial courses at the CC since the majority of the vocal populace wants no more. Wow. . .That explains a lot. It's now easy to see where the "powers that be" in all types of places are coming from. So much for encouraging the masses to achieve the highest levels.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Perhaps a better book -- essay, rather -- to lend a friendly enquirer is The Lost Tools of Learning by Dorothy Sayers. http://www.gbt.org/text/sayers.html Lend her your copy of the WTM. It will speak for itself, and she might choose to implement some of it in the parochial school. Edited September 4, 2009 by Orthodox6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 It does seem like the ultimate goal is uniformity. The only way to create a class of kids exactly the same is to create a mediocre mold they can all fit. The schools around here seem to punish the kids that have an easier time of it (the fast learners/ the advanced kids/ the gifted kids). They get their grades knocked down for talking or behaving (imo) like kids, whereas the slower kids get bonus points for some of the most trivial things (why, you held the door for someone! Bravo, here's a point!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara R Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 The Schools We Need (and Why We Don't Have Them) by E. D. Hirsch (author of Cultural Literacy and What your __ Grader needs to know) is a book that has a great explanation of the teaching philosophies in teacher's colleges today. Left Back: A Century of Failed School Reforms by Diane Ravitch explains how we got from where we were in 1890 (pretty classical) to here. The changes began with the progressivist movement around the turn of the century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 The Schools We Need (and Why We Don't Have Them) by E. D. Hirsch (author of Cultural Literacy and What your __ Grader needs to know) is a book that has a great explanation of the teaching philosophies in teacher's colleges today. Left Back: A Century of Failed School Reforms by Diane Ravitch explains how we got from where we were in 1890 (pretty classical) to here. The changes began with the progressivist movement around the turn of the century. :iagree::iagree: Love these books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtroad Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Read up on Dewey & the modern (progressive) school movements. His ideas & others are prevalent even today. It will give you insight into their ideology & training. Themes that you will hear: Learn by experiences.... no ROTE learning b/c that is just memorization & not useful (some think it is almost mean to make kids memorize).... teach children to be "citizens" and not individualist or different.... conform & blend is the idea and do not go against the community trends (huge theme of state or gov't control of schools) (another progressive idea from Dewey & his mentors) Bauer is a good lead. It is easier to explain what you like, see & think to someone than get yourself into a discussion of their beliefs (they know more than you & it will get confusing). But, still understand their verbage or lingo... but know your theory well & present it's qualities! BTW... many private & even Christian schools are not much different than public schools (in my area)... they just cost more & have have slightly stricter codes of character & dress. MOST of the teachers are retired from public schools OR biding their time to get a job in public schools ($$, insurance is virtually free for them here, and retirement). A few are motivated by ministry or mission.... most are just filling in the gaps of life. Even the principles are retired PS administrators, etc. AND... all have public education degrees ... so exact same training. I would see the collectivism & constructivist learning being applied in them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Poorly conceived constructivism. Classical education is about the opposite of constructivism for 1st-4th, but it has *most* of the good elements about it, anyway. Constructivism is extremely time-consuming and "reinvents the wheel" for EVERYTHING. This is great to drive certain points home but is an educational disaster when used indiscriminately--and it's hand-in-hand with "whole language" reading, too. If you have to choose either only constructivism OR a lecture format, lecture wins over the long haul every time. Edited September 4, 2009 by Reya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLHCO Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Well, in my 15 years in the ps realm the "unspoken" educational philosophy is the shotgun approach...shoot for the middle and hope some of the spray hits the rest. Ooo... I like that. Mind if I use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Pass the state test! Do VERY VERY WELL on the state test! Be sure you get a good breakfast on the day of the state test! Wait, we'll GIVE you a very good breakfast on the day of the state test! If you don't do well on the state test, we will all lose our jobs! If you do do well on the state test, we will give you a free ticket to a Major Theme Park. Actually, if you just SHOW UP for the state test, we will give you a free ticket to a Major Theme Park. We will love you forever if you just do well on the State Test! Or even if you just PASS the State Test! Don't forget, the State Test is next week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christielee7278 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Pass the state test! Do VERY VERY WELL on the state test! Be sure you get a good breakfast on the day of the state test! Wait, we'll GIVE you a very good breakfast on the day of the state test! If you don't do well on the state test, we will all lose our jobs! If you do do well on the state test, we will give you a free ticket to a Major Theme Park. Actually, if you just SHOW UP for the state test, we will give you a free ticket to a Major Theme Park. We will love you forever if you just do well on the State Test! Or even if you just PASS the State Test! Don't forget, the State Test is next week! Well, in my 15 years in the ps realm the "unspoken" educational philosophy is the shotgun approach...shoot for the middle and hope some of the spray hits the rest. That about covers it here. My 11 yr old nephew is in 6th grade ps. He is so intelligent. His test scores show him on an 11th grade reading level and 9th grade math level. Instead of putting him in challenging classes like the Gifted and Talented program, they reward him by assigning MORE work at school and send home extra homework. I hate that for him but my sister does not have the money for private school nor the motivation to homeschool. Instead she complains that the public school won't/can't meet his needs. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I had to drop my idea of getting a teaching certificate along with my French degree in college because after 3 education classes, I couldn't take it anymore. I could not understand how any of the stuff I was supposedly learning was going to help me teach any students in any way. I actually quit a class mid-term when I was told to take individual 6th graders out in the hallway and write down my observations of them rolling clay into little balls. Idiotic! Anyway, my kids' school's mission statement is "to create educational entrepreneurs with a social conscience". So, they spend a lot of time with guidance counseling (yeah, in kindergarten). They're given lectures on not being bullies and such. Then they spend about half the day lining up to go to various "specials" like music, art and gym. The whole morning seems to be dedicated to writing one sentence in their journals and drawing a picture to match. They use invented spelling, so anything goes. I have been a room parent and lunch helper and observed these things firsthand. They use Everyday Math, so they basically learn a lot about counting money, but nothing else. I'm so frustrated. The more time I spend on this board, the more I'm thinking of telling dh I don't care what he thinks about them needing to go to school, I'm not going to waste their time like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 They use Everyday Math, :ack2:We had TERC Investigations which was like EM but worse. It was the last straw and is what pushed us into homeschooling. Where's that barf smilie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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