LearnFromHome Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 My ds just received a letter from the US Government to register to the Selective Service. It states that failure to register is a federal crime punishable by a fine and imprisonment. My son does not want to go to the military - what should he do? Thanks, Judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alte Veste Academy Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well, he doesn't need to worry right now. There is not a draft. Registering doesn't mean joining. It means his name is on a master list and that list is used to draft people should the need arise. He needs to register, just as every male over 18 has to do in this country. He certainly doesn't want the trouble of not registering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 My ds just received a letter from the US Government to register to the Selective Service. It states that failure to register is a federal crime punishable by a fine and imprisonment. My son does not want to go to the military - what should he do? Thanks, Judy His duty. Register like all the millions of other American boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I agree with the other posters. Every male at age 18 must register. It doesn't mean he's automatically in the military. I've wondered what they do about men with such medical conditions that could prevent them from being an effective soldier. I don't find anything about medical exemptions. Until I find out specifically, my Asperger's son will be registering when he's 18. I did find one thing. There is more information on this website: http://www.usajobs.gov/EI60.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alte Veste Academy Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I've wondered what they do about men with such medical conditions that could prevent them from being an effective soldier. They aren't called to serve if they have a documented medical or psychological condition which would prevent them from being an effective soldier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 This is also *not* new. It has existed in one form or another for almost 100 years, and a draft has only rarely been instituted during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 If I remember not registering also comes with penalties like not being able to have student loans, other types of loans and credit issues. Social Security and passport issues... Somewhere there is a list of all the various ways not registering can impact you even if you slip past the above mentioned punishments. Oh and most importantly-- It is his duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillary in KS Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 This is also *not* new. It has existed in one form or another for almost 100 years, and a draft has only rarely been instituted during that time. Yes, I'm surprised you don't remember hearing about it in high school. There were posters all over the school, announcements, etc., about this every spring. Even now there are many PSA's on the radio every spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillary in KS Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 His duty. Register like all the millions of other American boys. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan25 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 His duty. Register like all the millions of other American boys. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise1mds Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 My DH was surprised by this, too. When he got his citizenship, along with all the other paperwork, there was a SSR card to fill out, which he hadn't been expecting. I had to explain it to him. The shocked/scared look on his face was kinda cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 You know what is weird? Even legal residents (non citizens) have to sign up. There is an age cut off though so my DH didn't have to. I would have never heard the end of that one otherwise. ;) If people live in this country I would expect that they sign up, I see nothing weird about it. The US military has many non-Americans in its ranks. It is only to be an officer that one must be a citizen. I fail to understand why anyone would have a problem with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 PQR, I don't think anyone does. It's just shocking to find that your baby is now a "man" and the US wants him to promise possible service in the future, just in case. IOW, I think it was unexpected (heck, I KNOW about it, but when time comes for ds, I'll still be surprised and a little heartsick). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 A person can refuse service such as fighting in a war. But most of the time, there are services that must be rendered which wouldn't bother a person's conscience. A person can go through proper channels to refuse particular service or all service if they need to later on. There may be consequences to that. But they should follow the law and fill out the form at 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Not considered a draft... just putting his name on a master list of able-bodied men in CASE there is a major War of types that requires our country to legislate a draft. Right now, I wouldn't worry... but don't avoid it. $$$$ fines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) You know what is weird? Even legal residents (non citizens) have to sign up. There is an age cut off though so my DH didn't have to. I would have never heard the end of that one otherwise. ;) I have heard of some immigrants signing up for enlistment and serving in the Gulf War or current Iraq/Afghanistan and using their time of service to legally become a US Citizen. If someone gets into our country and wants to put their life on the line for my country, family and freedom... I think that is quite honorable. Edited August 7, 2009 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 It's mandatory. If there ever was a draft and he had either a disability or was a conscientious objector, they would deal with it if/when he would be drafted. CO's have to prove they are truly CO's and not just wanting to avoid the dangers of war. In WW2, CO's were put into work camps and lighter CO's could/would request a non-combatant position (medical or chaplaincy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adams101 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The PSA's I keep hearing say they can prevent him from getting a driver's license and/of scholarships if he doesn't register. They are playing them all year on the radio here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well then he should be entitled to the same rights as a citizen. He is not. For example, he is not allowed to vote. Essentially the problem is we are pacifists. We don't believe in violence for solving problems except under very extreme circumstances. He cannot vote because he is NOT a citizen, he is however enjoying almost every other benefit of living in the United States. If he wants to vote then he should become a citizen, I did. As a means of payment for all those other benefits registering for the Selective Service is not unreasonable. While I personally have little time for pacifists as I believe that that they only empower those willing to use violence that does not mean that one should not register for selective service. The US military does have exemptions for conscientious objectors and in the event of a draft he would be able to claim this exemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well then he should be entitled to the same rights as a citizen. He is not. For example, he is not allowed to vote. Essentially the problem is we are pacifists. We don't believe in violence for solving problems except under very extreme circumstances. Read my last post; it mentions the Conscientious Objector status if he were called up for draft. However, he will have to prove that he is a Conscientious Objector and not simply avoiding duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Eh, doesn't matter he is too old anyway. I still don't agree that he can fight for the country, but cannot vote in the country. But if he were called up to serve, he could earn his citizenship and then be allowed to vote. I don't think someone should be given the vote just for registering. But for actual service, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 It is pretty difficult if one isn't a member of certain religious groups. Not true. Certain religious affiliation can help as evidence, but even they can be busted without personal conviction and sent to serve. He would have to prove, through interrogation, that he has valid personal convictions on being a conscientious objector (aka, they might bring up situational ethics or known personal history). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbalgirl Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well, he doesn't need to worry right now. There is not a draft. Registering doesn't mean joining. It means his name is on a master list and that list is used to draft people should the need arise. He needs to register, just as every male over 18 has to do in this country. He certainly doesn't want the trouble of not registering. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutor Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Here is information from the Selective Service System regarding Co's and Alternate Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan25 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 But if he were called up to serve, he could earn his citizenship and then be allowed to vote. I don't think someone should be given the vote just for registering. But for actual service, yes. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Not true. Certain religious affiliation can help as evidence, but even they can be busted without personal conviction and sent to serve. He would have to prove, through interrogation, that he has valid personal convictions on being a conscientious objector (aka, they might bring up situational ethics or known personal history). THIS is my biggest issue w/ mandatory SSR. I do not believe one should have to PROVE one's personal convictions to avoid being sent out to be trained to kill --or assist others to kill. That goes against the very foundational point of *freedom* that we are already losing. Our military [and gvt!!!] is a VOLUNTEER force. That's part of what makes it so great. I would vote to do away w/ mandatory SSR, while still allowing voluntary SSR. i don't even mind offering a tax credit for people who are willing to sign up w/ a SSR [gvt recruiting for a Constitutional job]. But to make it mandatory and penalize you w/ JAIL TIME just for not signing up? That irks the crap outta me. eta: but yes, my sons will be following the law and signing up via SSR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 He has to register just like every other man in this country, but I doubt we will ever have a draft so don't worry about it. It doesn't mean he is in the military. We are managing to fight a two front war at the moment with no draft so I don't see it ever happening again. It would be political suicide anyway. DS registered within a month of his 18th birthday. It says somewhere that it's punishable by law but I don't know if it's enforced but the point is that it's the law to register. Like everyone else wrote, it does not mean they are being drafted into service tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I don't like it either, but it is nothing new as others have said. My sons will have it doubly worse since they are citizens of Germany as well. Somehow we have to work out them not doing the mandatory service. Although maybe since they don't actually live there they won't have to. We will cross that bridge when we come to it. Now I'm glad I didn't do the dual citizenship - at least I don't think we did. Scratching my head now! He once was entered as a baby on a passport (European Union) I had but since I am an American citizen now, I never thought anything of it. He also is an American having been born here. Does Germany still have the mandatory boot training? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyP Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 It's just shocking to find that your baby is now a "man" and the US wants him to promise possible service in the future, just in case. IOW, I think it was unexpected (heck, I KNOW about it, but when time comes for ds, I'll still be surprised and a little heartsick). Oh! So true. I was reading along thinking of my brother, husband, nephew, then I read this and had a little stab of panic - and my son is only 7! Many people I am close with (self included) have served in the armed forces, yet when I think of my son I am caught off guard. Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Yes Germany still has it, but DH said they talk about doing away with it. If a child is born to a German citizen it is my understanding that citizenship is automatic. DH doesn't think the mandatory military training service will be difficult to get out of since our sons have never lived in Germany (at least not yet). You really made me wonder about the citizenship issue now. At the time ds was born in the U.S., I was still a German citizen, now I am an American. I need to research this just so I can be prepared should anything come our way. Would be kinda funny if ds were still German while neither of his parents are!? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well then he should be entitled to the same rights as a citizen. He is not. For example, he is not allowed to vote. Essentially the problem is we are pacifists. We don't believe in violence for solving problems except under very extreme circumstances. IF there is a draft again, there's always Canada. Forced military service is one of the grounds upon which you can file for refugee status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) IF there is a draft again, there's always Canada. Forced military service is one of the grounds upon which you can file for refugee status. If I am correct the Canadian government has started to return our cowards to us. Robin Long was deported and received a mere 15 months, but I guess that is at least something. Than again if you want our trash, as long as you promise not ever to return it....... Before I get too much hate mail, we have lost thousands of young servicemen who demonstrated the courage to go when asked and made the ultimate sacrifice. Our military is volunteer and even after signing up one can still, in some circumstances, claim objector status. The scum who run to Canada and let another go in their place are most disreputable of individuals and richly deserve all the scorn that is heaped on them. Edited August 7, 2009 by pqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 If I am correct the Canadian government has started to return our cowards to us. Robin Long was deported and received a mere 15 months, but I guess that is at least something. Than again if you want our trash, as long as you promise not ever to return it....... Mr. Long had already joined voluntarily. A draft is forced service. Not the same. And, are you saying you promise not to return, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Are you saying you promise not to return, then? I am afraid that I miss your point, if you are trying for a personal attack you may need to do a little better than that. Edited August 7, 2009 by pqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The scum who run to Canada and let another go in their place are most disreputable of individuals and richly deserve all the scorn that is heaped on them. The scum in gvt that institute forced service and create a situation where honorable people need to flee to avoid being enslaved to a military organization don't offer much credibility when they attempt to discredit and scorn and deem as cowards those that successfully evade being thrown in jail. By maintaining an ALL volunteer force, we allow those honorable people who do NOT wish to serve to freely act and find ways to protect and serve the REST of the people left at home that the military went off to fight for. I'm not seeing how that is dishonorable or cowardly. Your definition of cowardly and courage are pretty narrow, and rely on military service. I completely reject that definition of those terms. nobody is going "in their place" because there IS NO PLACE in a free society for forced service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyinNNV Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 nobody is going "in their place" because there IS NO PLACE in a free society for forced service. The Israelis might disagree with you.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The Israelis might disagree with you.:001_smile: I'm sure they would. On several counts. ;) we'd also probably differ in our definitions of "free society." :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I'm sure they would. On several counts. ;)we'd also probably differ in our definitions of "free society." :001_smile: One of those times when, weirdly, I find myself in agreement with you. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 One of those times when, weirdly, I find myself in agreement with you. Laura SSSHHHH!!!! don't advertise it!!!!:leaving: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 The scum in gvt that institute forced service and create a situation where honorable people need to flee to avoid being enslaved to a military organization don't offer much credibility when they attempt to discredit and scorn and deem as cowards those that successfully evade being thrown in jail. By maintaining an ALL volunteer force, we allow those honorable people who do NOT wish to serve to freely act and find ways to protect and serve the REST of the people left at home that the military went off to fight for. I'm not seeing how that is dishonorable or cowardly. Your definition of cowardly and courage are pretty narrow, and rely on military service. I completely reject that definition of those terms. nobody is going "in their place" because there IS NO PLACE in a free society for forced service. :svengo: because I agree with.... Peek!?! And, :cheers2: because ... dayum... you go girl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 :svengo: because I agree with.... Peek!?! The strange coincidences of wildly divergent views. I'm trying to plot a graph in my head. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 :svengo: because I agree with.... Peek!?! And, :cheers2: because ... dayum... you go girl! Oh my gosh, isn't that the 2nd time in about a week that you've agreed with Peek?! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle My Bell Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Do the Amish register? Just wondering... Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alte Veste Academy Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 By maintaining an ALL volunteer force, we allow those honorable people who do NOT wish to serve to freely act and find ways to protect and serve the REST of the people left at home that the military went off to fight for. I'm not seeing how that is dishonorable or cowardly. nobody is going "in their place" because there IS NO PLACE in a free society for forced service. Heaven help me, because this is not a fight I'm really in the mood to take on but this bothers me. A lot. First of all, the obvious... We wouldn't be a free society without the armed services. Ironic, huh? Yes, we're an all volunteer force. That's just dandy. In fact, it is exactly what soldiers and military leaders want...an all volunteer force made up of those who willingly take up arms to protect the people of this country. Obviously, it makes for an easier force to manage to have everyone down with the general idea of pride and honor of military service. However, sometimes more people are needed (in WWII just to name a pretty dang hard to debate example). The draft and the selective service aren't about "being enslaved to a military organization." They are about getting the numbers to win the fight, whatever fight we happen to be in. When volunteers don't make up the full number we need, a draft is necessary. My father was drafted. He hated that he was drafted. He and my mother had just gotten married and he had big dreams of college at the time, but he stepped up and entered the Army as his nation needed him to do. He ended up loving it so much that he made a career of it. I'm all for conscientious objectors. Fine. I get it. But yes, if you are not a conscientious objector and you flee this country to avoid military service, you are a coward. You are, in fact, letting someone else take your place and you are a slap in the face to the men and women who willingly put their lives on the line for you every single day. To sit back and enjoy the freedom that has been provided for you courtesy of the United States soldier and then refuse to join him in the fight when and if he needs your help is reprehensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Heaven help me, because this is not a fight I'm really in the mood to take on but this bothers me. A lot. First of all, the obvious... We wouldn't be a free society without the armed services. Ironic, huh? Yes, we're an all volunteer force. That's just dandy. In fact, it is exactly what soldiers and military leaders want...an all volunteer force made up of those who willingly take up arms to protect the people of this country. Obviously, it makes for an easier force to manage to have everyone down with the general idea of pride and honor of military service. However, sometimes more people are needed (in WWII just to name a pretty dang hard to debate example). The draft and the selective service aren't about "being enslaved to a military organization." They are about getting the numbers to win the fight, whatever fight we happen to be in. When volunteers don't make up the full number we need, a draft is necessary. My father was drafted. He hated that he was drafted. He and my mother had just gotten married and he had big dreams of college at the time, but he stepped up and entered the Army as his nation needed him to do. He ended up loving it so much that he made a career of it. I'm all for conscientious objectors. Fine. I get it. But yes, if you are not a conscientious objector and you flee this country to avoid military service, you are a coward. You are, in fact, letting someone else take your place and you are a slap in the face to the men and women who willingly put their lives on the line for you every single day. To sit back and enjoy the freedom that has been provided for you courtesy of the United States soldier and then refuse to join him in the fight when and if he needs your help is reprehensible. :iagree: - Very well said. Blessings, Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaik76 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 If people live in this country I would expect that they sign up, I see nothing weird about it. The US military has many non-Americans in its ranks. It is only to be an officer that one must be a citizen. I fail to understand why anyone would have a problem with this. PQR, I don't think anyone does. It's just shocking to find that your baby is now a "man" and the US wants him to promise possible service in the future, just in case. IOW, I think it was unexpected (heck, I KNOW about it, but when time comes for ds, I'll still be surprised and a little heartsick). Actually, I do. I'm a pacifist. My father went to jail rather than go to Vietnam. My parents had "safe plans" for my brothers so they could be sent out of the country if a draft was ever instituted. There are serious penalties to not signing up for selective service...but it is something I believe should not be mandatory. It is something that infuriates me about this country. I'm all for conscientious objectors. Fine. I get it. But yes, if you are not a conscientious objector and you flee this country to avoid military service, you are a coward. You are, in fact, letting someone else take your place and you are a slap in the face to the men and women who willingly put their lives on the line for you every single day. To sit back and enjoy the freedom that has been provided for you courtesy of the United States soldier and then refuse to join him in the fight when and if he needs your help is reprehensible.I disagree with you. Absolutely and completely. I think war is reprehensible. Period. I do not, will not, and cannot condone the act of destroying the lives of other human beings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaik76 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Do the Amish register? Just wondering... Michelle No, they do not. They also do not get social security numbers...but they also don't use social security benefits, and other programs such as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alte Veste Academy Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) I'm a pacifist. I disagree with you. Absolutely and completely. I think war is reprehensible. Period. I do not, will not, and cannot condone the act of destroying the lives of other human beings. Well, then you missed the part where I agreed with you. Being a pacifist makes you a conscientious objector. As I said, I'm fine with that. For the record, only the psychotic like war. Everyone else hates it, no one more than soldiers and their families. Edited August 8, 2009 by Alte Veste Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaik76 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Well, then you missed the part where I agreed with you. Being a pacifist makes you a conscientious objector. As I said, I'm fine with that. For the record, only the psychotic like war. Everyone else hates it, no one more than soldiers and their families. I do understand that. However, I do not think that even people who are not conscientious objectors should be required to fight in war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingM Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I disagree with you. Absolutely and completely. I think war is reprehensible. Period. I do not, will not, and cannot condone the act of destroying the lives of other human beings. Just out of curiosity, how do you think the US should have responded to the attack on Pearl Harbor? Would your views change at all if a large foreign army landed on US soil? I'm just wondering if you differentiate between: 1. Unjust foreign wars (say, Vietnam, as you mentioned) 2. Just foreign wars to defend against a country that has attacked us 3. An actual invasion of American soil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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