Orthodox Christianity

[Greta]

On more than one occasion now, more than one Orthodox Christian on these boards has made a comment that really jumped out at me (and I mean that in the best possible sense!). But I know nothing, and I mean nothing, about Orthodoxy. All of my experience with Christianity (including my current Christian friends) has been Protestant with the tiniest sprinkling of Catholicism. So, basically, I just wanted to ask if there is an "Orthodoxy for Dummes" type website where someone who is completely ignorant could learn the very basics. What distinguishes Orthodoxy from other traditions/denominations?

 

Thanks!

[KingM]

Nothing brilliant to add, but I find the Orthodox/Roman Catholic split and the history of the eastern and western churches to be absolutely fascinating. reading.

[Caitilin]

what is the reason for the 2/3 of the year veganism? I have seen Orthodox6 mention this on several occasions, but I was completely unaware of this facet of Orthodox practice. Can I have the "for Dummies" explanation?:001_smile:

[Greta]

Nothing brilliant to add, but I find the Orthodox/Roman Catholic split and the history of the eastern and western churches to be absolutely fascinating. reading.

 

Any specific resources you would recommend on that topic?

[mommaduck]

http://www.monachos.net/content/

 

http://www.goarch.org/

 

http://www.oca.org/

 

http://www.conciliarpress.com/

 

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/catechism_ext.htm

 

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/

 

http://www.light-n-life.com/

 

http://www.light-n-life.com/shopping/order_product.asp?ProductNum=INTR100

 

There are a couple to get started on ;)

 

 

The other thread was closed before I could thank an Orthodox mama for her post.

Edited August 5, 2009 by mommaduck

[Greta]

There are a couple to get started on ;)

 

Thanks! :001_smile:

[mommaduck]

Thanks! :001_smile:

I added to the list ;)

[Greta]

I added to the list ;)

 

Well, that should keep me busy and out of trouble for awhile. :D

[Luanne]

along these lines myself. Thanks for the links mommaduck! :001_smile:

[mirth]

The big rift: The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church disagree on the nature of the Holy Spirit.

 

The Creed as recited in Orthodox churches:

...And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets;

 

The Nicene Creed as recited in Catholic churches (of which Protestants are a spin-off)

...And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, Who with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets;

 

Positioning the Holy Spirit, and how He "proceedeth"s from just [the Father] or from the the unit [the Father and the Son] was a big deal.

[mommaduck]

The big rift: The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church disagree on the nature of the Holy Spirit.

 

The Creed as recited in Orthodox churches:

...And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets;

 

The Nicene Creed as recited in Catholic churches (of which Protestants are a spin-off)

...And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, Who with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets;

 

Positioning the Holy Spirit, and how He "proceedeth"s from just [the Father] or from the the unit [the Father and the Son] was a big deal.

 

Thank you for pointing this out.

[Peek a Boo]

don't forget the wiki rundown:

probably the closest to a Dummies version. ;)

usually easy to navigate and read.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church

[Alessandra]

For some subjects I really prefer books -- you can often explore more in depth than with websites. Two excellent ones are:

Timothy Ware, The Orthodox Church

Alexander Schmemann, For the Life of the World

 

For 'dummies', I would suggest a great 4 volume (small vols) series called The Orthodox Church, published by the OCA and edited by Fr Thomas Hopko. The vols are

Worship

Doctrine

Spirituality

Bible & Church History

 

Vegans -- Orthodox who observe the Church fasts will abstain from meat, fish, dairy, eggs, olive oil & wine for Great Lent, the Nativity Fast, and various other day & periods during the year -- perhaps this is what poster was thinking of?

 

Here is a good source of books

http://www.svspress.com/

[Jugglin'5]

Alexander Schmemann, For the Life of the World

 

This makes good reading even if you're not Orthodox.

[mommaduck]

One of the links I posted is to the book "Introduction to the Orthodox Church" and another good one is Eastern Orthodox Theology. Conciliar Press has a bunch of pamplets.

[Greta]

I appreciate all the help. Wiki was of course a great idea for a starting point. And, yes, there is something more satisfying about reading a book than a web page. My library has the Ware book, but it's checked out at the moment. I will anxiously await its return.

 

My library does have Eastern Orthodox Christianity: a Western Perspective by Daniel Clendenin. Does anyone know if this one is good?

[cajun.classical]

I am friends with the Orthodox Priest in my town. I have enjoyed our conversations immensely.

 

Another big difference between the Orthodox and Catholic/Protestants is over the issue of original sin. The orthodox don't believe in original sin and aren't particularly fond of St. Augustine who made that issue one of his sticking points when he debated Pelagius.

[Greta]

Patty Joanna, thank you so very much! I appreciate the list of resources as well as the offer for further conversation. Honestly, at this point, I don't even know enough to know what to ask you by pm! :) I just know that there is something that really rings true for me in things that you and other Orthodox Christians here have said, so I feel I owe it to myself to find out more. I will start exploring, and then I may contact you again later on. Thank you again for your kind help!

[Macrina]

This you can read this during 1/2 a cup of tea, and is a nice place to start, regardless of if you ever think you might visit an Orthodox church or not. http://www.frederica.com/12-things/

[mommaduck]

Orthodox don't believe in Original Sin? Or just believe differently about Original Sin? (Okay, another thing to add to the list when I speak to Fr).

[Macrina]

Orthodox don't believe in Original Sin? Or just believe differently about Original Sin? (Okay, another thing to add to the list when I speak to Fr).

 

What is the difference between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic understandings of original sin?

 

 

 

What is the difference between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic understandings of "original sin?" Do we Orthodox Christians even believe in "original sin?" (Nov. '01)

 

 

 

In the 6th Decree of the Synod of Jerusalem (AD 1692) the Patriarchs of the Orthodox Church affirm that "We believe the first man created by God (Adam) to have fallen in Paradise, when, disregarding the Divine Commandment, he yielded to the deceitful counsel of the serpent (Satan). And hence hereditary sin flowed to his posterity; so that none is born after the flesh who beareth not this burden, and experienceth not the fruits thereof in this present world. But by these fruits and this burden we do not understand (actual) sin, such as impiety, blasphemy, murder, sodomy, adultery, fornication, enmity, and whatsoever else is by our depraved choice committed contrarily to the Divine Will, not from nature; for many both of the Forefathers and of the Prophets, and vast numbers of others, as well as those under the shadow (of the Law), as under the truth (the Gospel), such as the divine Forerunner, and especially the Mother of God the Word, the ever-virgin Mary, experienced not these, or such like faults; but only what the Divine Justice inflicted upon man as punishment for the (original) transgression, such as sweats in labor, afflictions, bodily sicknesses, pains in childbearing, and while on our (earthly) pilgrimage to live a laborious life, and lastly, bodily death." What does all of this mean? Since Adam alone committed the "original sin" (or, more properly, the "ancestral sin"), he alone bears the guilt for that sin. However, the consequences of that first sin -- e.g., sickness, pain, death -- and most especially the allpowerful propensity to sin, is inherited by all of his descendants. Roman Catholics, on the other hand, believe that we are all born sinners, guilty of Adam's sin from our very conception in the womb.

 

 

http://www.antiochian.org/1311

 

 

[Macrina]

Orthodox don't believe in Original Sin? Or just believe differently about Original Sin? (Okay, another thing to add to the list when I speak to Fr).

 

Imagine our shock as seekers when we found out the Virgin Mary actually *remained* a virgin! :001_huh: Talk about a "What? OC believe that!? I don't know if I could be on board with THAT!" :001_unsure: lol! It's all good now :001_smile: !

[mommaduck]

Okay, that is what I had heard about Orthodox and Original Sin. I would say that is a different view of it, not a complete denial of it ;) The nature is still inherited, the guilt is not.

 

On Mary, I finally got to the point of simply saying that I don't see enough evidence on either side. But I do believe that her husband would have had to of died soon after the birth of her son. One child's poem I found references Joseph's "hoary head". For those that are unaware, that means grey.

[Macrina]

Okay, that is what I had heard about Orthodox and Original Sin. I would say that is a different view of it, not a complete denial of it ;) The nature is still inherited, the guilt is not.

 

On Mary, I finally got to the point of simply saying that I don't see enough evidence on either side. But I do believe that her husband would have had to of died soon after the birth of her son. One child's poem I found references Joseph's "hoary head". For those that are unaware, that means grey.

 

Yes, generally the Orthodox believe the Joseph was more elderly and that the nature of the relationship was just not bedroom oriented. Not so much that he would have died soon after the birth of Christ but maybe more perhaps along the lines of no Viagra back then I guess ? :001_huh:

 

As far as original sin goes, I agree. Though I will discuses the word "nature" to sin. Many believe original sin means it is impossible for a human NOT to sin, the Orthodox more say the nature of humans is such that it is highly improbable anyone could be impossible of sin, but it's not out of the question since the sin lies with Adam, and we get the "ancestral sin" without the blame/guilt of original sin. Ohhh, I felt like I talked in a circle there! So if I need to clarify, I can!

[mommaduck]

Yes, generally the Orthodox believe the Joseph was more elderly and that the nature of the relationship was just not bedroom oriented. Not so much that he would have died soon after the birth of Christ but maybe more perhaps along the lines of no Viagra back then I guess ? :001_huh:

 

As far as original sin goes, I agree. Though I will discuses the word "nature" to sin. Many believe original sin means it is impossible for a human NOT to sin, the Orthodox more say the nature of humans is such that it is highly improbable anyone could be impossible of sin, but it's not out of the question since the sin lies with Adam, and we get the "ancestral sin" without the blame/guilt of original sin. Ohhh, I felt like I talked in a circle there! So if I need to clarify, I can!

 

 

No, I totally get what you are saying. Mary and John the Baptiser come to mind ;)

[Greta]

This you can read this during 1/2 a cup of tea, and is a nice place to start, regardless of if you ever think you might visit an Orthodox church or not. http://www.frederica.com/12-things/

 

Thanks! I'm looking forward to reading it. :001_smile:

[Jennay]

Greta,

What background are you coming from? That would influence my answer a bit.

 

One book I am reading now that has little tidbits about Orthodox theology nestled throughout the book is:

Close to Home: One Orthodox Mother's Quest for Patience, Peace, and Perseverance.

http://www.amazon.com/Close-Home-Orthodox-Patience-Perseverance/dp/1888212616/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1249570259&sr=8-5

 

My DH and I converted to Orthodoxy in 2005.

 

~Jen

[Laurie4b]

The big rift: The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church disagree on the nature of the Holy Spirit.

 

The Creed as recited in Orthodox churches:

...And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets;

 

The Nicene Creed as recited in Catholic churches (of which Protestants are a spin-off)

...And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, Who with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets;

 

Positioning the Holy Spirit, and how He "proceedeth"s from just [the Father] or from the the unit [the Father and the Son] was a big deal.

 

The Eastern Church split from the Western when the Western changed the creed to add "and from the Son". The historical context was that the exact nature of Jesus was under attack in the West and this addition built it up. So it wasn't particularly about the Spirit but about the Son.

[Macrina]

The Eastern Church split from the Western when the Western changed the creed to add "and from the Son". The historical context was that the exact nature of Jesus was under attack in the West and this addition built it up. So it wasn't particularly about the Spirit but about the Son.

 

AND a big part of the schism in the first place was the desire to have a pope, one head of the church, a supremacy system. The split came as the Catholic church appointed a pope instead of having a group of spiritual fathers that over saw the church as it had all along The Orthodox don't do the Papacy "Apostolic See" thing.

[Orthodox6]

The very best general website on the Internet is this one:

 

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/

[Orthodox6]

The Church in Rome split from the other four patriarchates, with which it always had shared equal authority, for several reasons, most of which centered on the Church of Rome wishing to assume a primacy which it never had possessed, but wished to possess.

 

The Eastern Church split from the Western when the Western changed the creed to add "and from the Son". The historical context was that the exact nature of Jesus was under attack in the West and this addition built it up. So it wasn't particularly about the Spirit but about the Son.

[Orthodox6]

The teaching is so different as to bear nearly nothing in common.

 

Helpful links include:

 

http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

 

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/frjr_sin.aspx

 

http://store.holycrossbookstore.com/970730314.html If one can read only one book at all on the topic, this is the one to read.

 

Orthodox don't believe in Original Sin? Or just believe differently about Original Sin? (Okay, another thing to add to the list when I speak to Fr).

[Greta]

Thank you Jennay and Orthodox6 for the further help! Jen, I sent you a pm to answer your question.

 

Thanks everyone for the clarifications and recommendations for resources. I do appreciate it.

[happygrrl]

One book I am reading now that has little tidbits about Orthodox theology nestled throughout the book is:

Close to Home: One Orthodox Mother's Quest for Patience, Peace, and Perseverance.

http://www.amazon.com/Close-Home-Orthodox-Patience-Perseverance/dp/1888212616/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1249570259&sr=8-5

 

 

Oh! This has been on my "to read" list for a while, even since I bawled my eyes out through one of her podcasts. :)

 

This brings up a point: one of my favorite resources is Ancient Faith Radio. Before we found a church I listened to podcasts daily. Now we are Catechumens (in the process of joining the church, sorta like engagement) and I find that I only listen.... well, daily! :lol:

[bkpan]

I appreciate all the help. Wiki was of course a great idea for a starting point. And, yes, there is something more satisfying about reading a book than a web page. My library has the Ware book, but it's checked out at the moment. I will anxiously await its return.

 

My library does have Eastern Orthodox Christianity: a Western Perspective by Daniel Clendenin. Does anyone know if this one is good?

 

I would steer clear of this one. I havent read it myself, but my db, an Orthodox priest, considers the author biased and ill-informed on the Faith.

 

Kim

[Orthodox6]

Sorry that my replies of today were so terse ! I don't use these boards any more, just glance through occasionally, and saw this thread. Was in a hurry but stopped to post briefly.

 

Regards,

 

Antonia

 

Thank you Jennay and Orthodox6 for the further help! Jen, I sent you a pm to answer your question.

 

Thanks everyone for the clarifications and recommendations for resources. I do appreciate it.

[bkpan]

Greta,

What background are you coming from? That would influence my answer a bit.

 

One book I am reading now that has little tidbits about Orthodox theology nestled throughout the book is:

Close to Home: One Orthodox Mother's Quest for Patience, Peace, and Perseverance.

http://www.amazon.com/Close-Home-Orthodox-Patience-Perseverance/dp/1888212616/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1249570259&sr=8-5

 

My DH and I converted to Orthodoxy in 2005.

 

~Jen

 

Wonderful book! I decided to read it again after I finished it. I also second Frederica M. Greene, Peter Gilchrist, and Matthew Gallatin. Dont know if I spelled all of those last names correctly, in a hurry! HTH

 

Kim

[Greta]

I would steer clear of this one. I havent read it myself, but my db, an Orthodox priest, considers the author biased and ill-informed on the Faith.

 

Kim

 

I appreciate this info. I'll stick with the ones that have been recommended in this thread.

[Greta]

Sorry that my replies of today were so terse ! I don't use these boards any more, just glance through occasionally, and saw this thread. Was in a hurry but stopped to post briefly.

 

Regards,

 

Antonia

 

No need to apologize! I appreciate you stopping, even if only briefly. :001_smile:

[Greta]

Thanks Patty Joanna and Happygrrl for mentioning the Ancient Faith Radio podcasts. I am hooked! I like to listen to my iPod while I clean house and do chores. My house is getting cleaned for the first time in too long, and I have a feeling it may be absolutely spotless in a couple of days. :D I've never enjoyed housework so much! :lol: I'm starting with the "At the Intersection of East and West" series because that seemed a logical place to start for me. It's very enlightening so far. Any others you would recommend?

[abdesigns]

Check out www.myocn.net for podcasts--you can find some great conversion stories there.

[Greta]

Check out www.myocn.net for podcasts--you can find some great conversion stories there.

 

Thanks! I'll check that out too. :001_smile:

[bkpan]

Thanks Patty Joanna and Happygrrl for mentioning the Ancient Faith Radio podcasts. I am hooked! I like to listen to my iPod while I clean house and do chores. My house is getting cleaned for the first time in too long, and I have a feeling it may be absolutely spotless in a couple of days. :D I've never enjoyed housework so much! :lol: I'm starting with the "At the Intersection of East and West" series because that seemed a logical place to start for me. It's very enlightening so far. Any others you would recommend?

 

Yes, Molly Sabourin and Fr. John Oliver are excellent! :)

[mommaduck]

Okay, I finally found an ESSENTIAL beginner's book before even trying to understand EO! A friend loaned it to me. I'm two chapters in and enjoying it. It's about the difference in thinking and approach between East and West.

 

Common Ground: An Introduction To Eastern Christianity For The American Christian by Jordan Bajis

 

From the publisher...

http://www.light-n-life.com/shopping/order_product.asp?ProductNum=COMM130

 

From Amazon...

http://www.amazon.com/Common-Ground-Introduction-Christianity-Christian/dp/0937032816

[Sparkle]

Okay, I finally found an ESSENTIAL beginner's book before even trying to understand EO! A friend loaned it to me. I'm two chapters in and enjoying it. It's about the difference in thinking and approach between East and West.

 

Common Ground: An Introduction To Eastern Christianity For The American Christian by Jordan Bajis

 

 

 

 

I love this book.

[mommaduck]

Amazon is good for reviews :D I always prefer ordering directly from the company.

[Greta]

Yes, Molly Sabourin and Fr. John Oliver are excellent! :)

 

Myself, I am finding myself drawn especially to the recent podcast series begun by The Opinionated Tailor and Pilgrims from Paradise, and in general, I like The Illumined Heart, which is interview-style. But these may not be to your taste as much as those recommended by bkpan. It took me awhile to like the Pilgrims one as well as I do now, but I am hooked. Father Stephen is also very good, but his 'casts are often audio versions of his blog at Glory to God for All Things, and so I have often read what he is 'casting now.

 

Thank you both! I look forward to sampling these.

 

Also, at some point, you will want to visit an Orthodox Church.

 

Yes, a prospect I am both excited, and I have to admit, a bit nervous about. I have never attended any liturgical service in my life, so I'm not sure what to expect or what to do. That article "12 Things I Wish I Knew . . . " did really help though!

 

 

Kind regards, and congratulations on the clean house. If you run out of things to do...call. I'll give you the address to my house.

 

:lol: Well, there seems to be no limit to the number of things that need to be done around here.

 

Thank you!

[Greta]

Okay, I finally found an ESSENTIAL beginner's book before even trying to understand EO! A friend loaned it to me. I'm two chapters in and enjoying it. It's about the difference in thinking and approach between East and West.

 

Common Ground: An Introduction To Eastern Christianity For The American Christian by Jordan Bajis

 

 

Thanks! Sounds really good.

[TXMomof4]

What is the difference between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic understandings of original sin?

 

 

 

 

What is the difference between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic understandings of "original sin?" Do we Orthodox Christians even believe in "original sin?" (Nov. '01)

 

 

 

 

 

In the 6th Decree of the Synod of Jerusalem (AD 1692) the Patriarchs of the Orthodox Church affirm that "We believe the first man created by God (Adam) to have fallen in Paradise, when, disregarding the Divine Commandment, he yielded to the deceitful counsel of the serpent (Satan). And hence hereditary sin flowed to his posterity; so that none is born after the flesh who beareth not this burden, and experienceth not the fruits thereof in this present world. But by these fruits and this burden we do not understand (actual) sin, such as impiety, blasphemy, murder, sodomy, adultery, fornication, enmity, and whatsoever else is by our depraved choice committed contrarily to the Divine Will, not from nature; for many both of the Forefathers and of the Prophets, and vast numbers of others, as well as those under the shadow (of the Law), as under the truth (the Gospel), such as the divine Forerunner, and especially the Mother of God the Word, the ever-virgin Mary, experienced not these, or such like faults; but only what the Divine Justice inflicted upon man as punishment for the (original) transgression, such as sweats in labor, afflictions, bodily sicknesses, pains in childbearing, and while on our (earthly) pilgrimage to live a laborious life, and lastly, bodily death." What does all of this mean? Since Adam alone committed the "original sin" (or, more properly, the "ancestral sin"), he alone bears the guilt for that sin. However, the consequences of that first sin -- e.g., sickness, pain, death -- and most especially the allpowerful propensity to sin, is inherited by all of his descendants. Roman Catholics, on the other hand, believe that we are all born sinners, guilty of Adam's sin from our very conception in the womb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.antiochian.org/1311

 

 

 

 

So, do you believe in infant baptism? Or baptism at an age of accountability? Sorry, I am a complete newbie at all the nuances of different denominations/religions.

[mommaduck]

So, do you believe in infant baptism? Or baptism at an age of accountability? Sorry, I am a complete newbie at all the nuances of different denominations/religions.

 

They hold to infant (paedo) baptism and baptism of unbaptised converts (those already baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost do not need to be re-baptised as their baptism is considered acceptable). They also hold to paedo-communion...something that the Reformed Churches have eyeball deep in name-calling debate on.