In-law dilemma, WWYD? SC, CC, Racial

[BillieBoy]

There may be content offensive to Christians but it is not my intent to offend. This isn’t about what he, she, it believes, it’s about what you do with it. And to preface it all, we are a spiritual family but not a religious one, just not Christian.

 

I have a strange relationship with my in-laws of 18 years. Dh wasn’t close to them for many years after he left home as a young adult. When we first got together I told him I just wasn’t raised that way, you must make contact. So he did, and things were “all rightâ€. We lived across the state and visited only occasionally. When our dd came along she was the first and only grandchild on both sides, still is. I really wanted her to know all of her real grandparents since she was fortunate enough to have them. But the closer we got to my husband’s parents the more strained things became, until I had enough. I have not spoken to them in 3 years. Dh will call on birthdays and allow dd to talk; we send Christmas cards and pictures. Dd tries to write a letter every few months.

 

The dividing factor has been race and religion. Dh left because he just didn’t see the light in fundamental Christianity and because his father was an extreme bigot. They were aware that I was Asian but somehow in the beginning that was “okay†for them. I put aside a lot of my fundamental morals by still encouraging Dh’s relationship with them. When Dd was four we entertained the idea of moving closer because of a job opportunity and rented a place nearby them for 5 months too long. Then it started, I was berated for not teaching my daughter “young earth†and filling her head with stupid lies such as the moon landing, dinosaurs, and math. Yes, math, because she won’t need it behind a stove. When dd questioned some of FIL’s bible stories, he would get angry at her and tell her not to question him with “those evil Asian eyesâ€. But the deal breaker for me was when Dh’s brother married a black woman and then shortly after was diagnosed with lung cancer, FIL AND MIL refused to acknowledge him and told my daughter that he was no longer their son and cancer is what her uncle deserved for marrying out of his race. My brother in law died six months later, his parents did not even attend the funeral. I was mortified.

 

MIL just informed Dh that FIL is becoming more and more deranged and he lashes out verbally in anger to everyone including her (Not physical). We are concerned about MIL not being able to handle the farm and him. She has not asked for help but Dh is now the only one that could. I am on the fence, my mother’s culture believes like Christian doctrine to honor your mother and father. However I do not want to subject my daughter to his, now worse, tirades. I feel like my core value system is being torn. Do I relent? Dd is incredibly sensitive and fully remembers how her grandfather used to treat her face to face. What would you do?

[ciyates]

I am so sorry you are in that situation. I wish I could offer you words of wisdom but I can't. My MIL and FIL had a problem with me and said all kinds of things. We decided to keep our DS from them until they could behave

[elfgivas]

wow, i just typed a lot and hit delete. i would maintain distance. lots of distance. if they ask for help, then you can decide what help you can offer. but they denied their (other) son. the "evil asian eyes" comment would be enough for me to do precisely what you've done.... and to keep it that way. you are maintaining contact but in a controlled fashion.

 

they may need to get ready to leave the farm as they age, and helping them stay there may not be a kindness. your MIL may be safer in a more populated setting.

 

:grouphug:

[joannqn]

It sounds, to me, like your FIL has already made the decision for you. He has chosen to act in a way that would drive you away. He is not being honorable.

 

I think the best, and only, way to honor them and still keep your family safe from abuse is to honor the memory of their positive aspects with your daughter as she grows. Don't talk about his bad behavior, but rather remember what positive you can. In that way, you are honoring him. At the same time, you don't need to subject yourself to his abuse by making contact.

[kalanamak]

 

MIL just informed Dh that FIL is becoming more and more deranged and he lashes out verbally in anger to everyone including her (Not physical). We are concerned about MIL not being able to handle the farm and him. She has not asked for help but Dh is now the only one that could. What would you do?

 

Is there a pastor you could call and express concern? Is there an older adult services in their area. I'm guessing they are over 70? Statistically, old men get grumpy. Not all, but much more so than women. Big mental hospitals often have a full ward of "men who got very angry in their agedness". I would also encourage hubby to have a quiet heart to heart with mom about retirement, finances, etc. Do it in a way that FIL won't know about it, as he could get paranoid about it.

:grouphug:

[Loupelou]

I agree with the other posters, keep your distance, you and dh decide how you can help without aggravating old wounds. There isn't any reason that your daughter needs to be subjected to such poisoning. I am sorry you have to deal with this - it can be so emotionally draining. I think your desire to try and do something/anything is very benevolent. :grouphug:

[FO4UR]

What a horrible situation:grouphug:

 

I am a Christian - I cannot imagine how your IL's rationalize their treatment of you (and your BIL/SIL) with the Bible....I guess I know where they likely get it - it's just bad (bad isn't a strong enough word, but will have to do:glare:) theology...anywho....

 

I believe one of the best ways to honor our parents, when they are abusive, is to provide a boundary that prevents further abuse. No question in my mind - I would NOT put my child in that kind of situation! (my dc are 1/2 Asian too....so I definitely get the racial aspect...though our families are not at all racist on either side - we've felt a little of that in certain circles). No - dh does not need to go run the family farm in the midst of cruelty. No - you do not need to be berrated either.

 

I feel for your MIL - but unless/until they are repentant (truly sorry, ashamed, and embarrassed) of their sinful words and attitudes you cannot cross that line into their world. Protecting your child(ren) is priority #1!!!

[mommaduck]

I have asians, bigots, fundamentalists, and mental/personality disorders for relatives...some in-laws. I am a Christian, but you did not offend me in the least :grouphug:

 

I think this is more of a case of a mental breakdown or personality disorder untreated that is getting worse. The issues in fundamentalism are simply being used as weapons. If he didn't believe in these things, he'd find some other way to strike out at those around him. Sounds like he has a lot of hate and anger built up. You and your daughter are easy targets because you are "different" and you know that "different" means you can't possibly be "as good as him" :glare: I feel for your MIL, perhaps you can send her a loving letter once in a while with pictures of your daughter. But I would not, would NOT, expose my child to this kind of toxicity. She does not need to be constantly told that she is "evil" or "not good enough" or "rebellious" (you're raising her to be educated...some see this as creating a rebellious attitude in women...heaven forbid she know how to measure the ingredients in a recipe, or worse, become an engineer/doctor/lawyer ;) ). You will need to just kill with kindness from a distance or cut off all communication.

 

Many hugs to you.

[KingM]

If the situation were reversed and you were the Christians and they were not, I'm guessing they would be just as difficult. So I don't think it's a religious issue, per se. Same with race, probably. If it wasn't race and religion, it would be something else.

 

I think you should maintain your distance. These are simply difficult, unhealthy people. You don't want that toxicity to brush off on you and yours.

[OnTheBrink]

I have asians, bigots, fundamentalists, and mental/personality disorders for relatives...some in-laws. I am a Christian, but you did not offend me in the least :grouphug:

 

I think this is more of a case of a mental breakdown or personality disorder untreated that is getting worse. The issues in fundamentalism are simply being used as weapons. If he didn't believe in these things, he'd find some other way to strike out at those around him. Sounds like he has a lot of hate and anger built up. You and your daughter are easy targets because you are "different" and you know that "different" means you can't possibly be "as good as him" :glare: I feel for your MIL, perhaps you can send her a loving letter once in a while with pictures of your daughter. But I would not, would NOT, expose my child to this kind of toxicity. She does not need to be constantly told that she is "evil" or "not good enough" or "rebellious" (you're raising her to be educated...some see this as creating a rebellious attitude in women...heaven forbid she know how to measure the ingredients in a recipe, or worse, become an engineer/doctor/lawyer ;) ). You will need to just kill with kindness from a distance or cut off all communication.

 

Many hugs to you.

 

Listen to the Duck Woman. The Duck Woman is wise. And, I'm sorry your dd is being told such lies about herself from her grandparents.

[Kathleen in VA]

Your first responsibility is to your daughter. Your fil is the one who has done the alienation and damage. Your mil seems to be enabling him. Neither one of them gives any indication that their hearts have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit or are following Jesus. They seem to be using their own contrivance of Christianity as an excuse to behave badly.

 

I'm sorry they are doing those things in the name of Christ. Just because someone says they are a Christian does not necessarily mean they are one. Jesus said:

 

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23

 

Your dh can offer help (not sure what they want), but you are under no obligation to include your daughter in whatever that entails. She needs your protection.

[DawnM]

Agreeing here!

 

And wanted to add that I am very sorry. That (your FIL's actions) is the most ungodly thing I have ever heard!

 

We adopted an Asian son and we were a bit concerned about how DH's family would accept him. They make SO MANY racist comments, but they are not Christians. It hasn't been an easy road but DH and I said from the beginning that if they didn't accept our son, they were saying they would not accept any of us and that would be that.

 

Dawn

 

Listen to the Duck Woman. The Duck Woman is wise. And, I'm sorry your dd is being told such lies about herself from her grandparents.

[mommaduck]

Your first responsibility is to your daughter. Your fil is the one who has done the alienation and damage. Your mil seems to be enabling him. Neither one of them gives any indication that their hearts have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit or are following Jesus. They seem to be using their own contrivance of Christianity as an excuse to behave badly.

 

I'm sorry they are doing those things in the name of Christ. Just because someone says they are a Christian does not necessarily mean they are one. Jesus said:

 

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23

 

Your dh can offer help (not sure what they want), but you are under no obligation to include your daughter in whatever that entails. She needs your protection.

:iagree: Precisely.

[TxMama]

I'm sure there are ways to help your MIL if she asks without putting your DD in an uncomfortable position.

 

I'd wait for her to ask for help but in the meantime look at what your options might be or what your limitations might be. There is no reason for your dd to have contact with her grandparents even if you and dh decide to go the extra mile for them.

[ConnieB]

I spent many years living in various Asian cultures (Hong Kong, Japan, China and Thailand) and I totally understand the "honor your parents" obligation that you believe in. But, it IS a two way street. The parents are supposed to honor and respect their children as well. Your FIL is not. And worse, he has the potential of making your child feel that her heritage is something to be ashamed of.

 

For me, this would be intolerable from anyone, especially a relative.

 

If this was my family, I would encourage and support DH's continued contact with his family....and his doing what is necessary to protect his mother if it comes to that. But I would not allow myself nor my child(ren) to have contact with FIL. And only with MIL if she can make serious changes in her attitude towards you and the children.

 

If your DH were on the other side of the country his involvement would be limited because of distance. And somehow your mother would cope. I would suggest approaching it with that attitude if DH feels that he cannot be involved, or if it comes to the point where your/child involvement would be required (ie MIL needing a place to live). In that situation, DH should offer to help her find a senior residence center where she could have her needs attended to, and live a happy life, but without your direct involvement.

 

You have to do what you feel is best for your family....and your family is DH, children and yourself. Remember that you also have an obligation to honor your husband. And if you cannot serve both committments then you must choose one over the other.

 

In Asian cultures this is always a source of great difficulty emotionally, spiritually and physically as children like yourself struggle to honor two masters (parents and spouse). The outcome of these situations depends on how much each person is willing to give and take. In situations where the parents refuse to be flexible they typically find themselves on the losing side, because the child chooses their spouse. In situations where the child chooses parents divorce (which in many Asian cultures is deemed a life failure) is often the end result. It's a no win situation for the child and I am sorry that you must make this choice.

 

It's probably horrible of me to say, but perhaps it will take your FIL's death before your MIL make changes towards being more accepting of you. Remember, as strong as the Asian child is indoctrinated to honor parents....a wife is even more so with the requirement to honor and respect her husband. Many an Asian widow has found that after her husband's death she can finally develop her own thoughts. I don't pray for your FIL's untimely death, but when/if it occured, I will pray that your MIL is able to find her own self and not his.

 

:grouphug:

[Building Up]

MIL just informed Dh that FIL is becoming more and more deranged and he lashes out verbally in anger to everyone including her (Not physical). We are concerned about MIL not being able to handle the farm and him. She has not asked for help but Dh is now the only one that could. I am on the fence, my mother’s culture believes like Christian doctrine to honor your mother and father. However I do not want to subject my daughter to his, now worse, tirades. I feel like my core value system is being torn. Do I relent? Dd is incredibly sensitive and fully remembers how her grandfather used to treat her face to face. What would you do?

 

It sounds to me like the question you need to answer is what "honor your mother and father" means for you and your dh. I agree with the previous posters that you are wise to keep your distance, and I do not think that shows dishonor. I think one could argue that it honors someone more to refuse to enable this kind of behaviour, than it does to go along with it. I would not put myself or my dd in this situation. You don't need to bad-talk them, but you do need to protect your own family.

 

Perhaps your dh can encourage his mother/father to go see someone - from your description, their pastor might be the best bet. Perhaps their pastor would be able to see some warning signs and be trusted enough by fil to get some help from a psychologist or counselor.

 

I would start brainstorming and researching other ways of finding support for mil now, before she is urgently asking for it. Make a list of agencies, ideas, suggestions so that your dh is not her only option.

 

:grouphug: Sorry you are going through this.

[BillieBoy]

Thank you all for your kind words of encouragement. My gut tells me the same thing about keeping a distance. We try to never say negative things about them in front of dd, sometimes that can be really hard. In FIL’s defense (yes, he is 73) or excuse he was raised in Oklahoma during a bad time and only received a 4th grade education before he was put behind a plow on the farm. MIL has stood by him but I’ve always noticed a bit of a flicker as if she wanted to contradict him, but never could quite do it. Mind you as far as I know FIL has never been physically abusive which is to his credit, as I understand it his father was. Oh, and this gets my goat a bit, they don’t attend any particular church they watch a minister on TV and send what little money they don’t have there. Unfortunately there is no one even remotely local that he hasn’t cussed out or ran off. He has had his kind and tender moments but for the most part he has been a big poop since I’ve known him. Age has only ripened him past the point of rotten. This has been pretty hard on Dh but fortunately for us dd and I always come first. I do want to encourage Dh to try and convey to MIL that if she does need help to please feel that we have not shunned her. I feel she really needs to know that she has an option.

[phathui5]

If the situation were reversed and you were the Christians and they were not, I'm guessing they would be just as difficult. So I don't think it's a religious issue, per se. Same with race, probably. If it wasn't race and religion, it would be something else.

 

I think you should maintain your distance. These are simply difficult, unhealthy people. You don't want that toxicity to brush off on you and yours.

 

I agree. And I would be firm about not having my children around people who are unkind to them.

[jujsky]

They're your husband's parents, so I would support how he wants to handle it, with the condition that you leave your DD out of the mix entirely. You don't want to subject her to an abusive grandfather. If your DH wants to help, let him help. If he doesn't want to help, support him in that too.

 

I feel so awful for you, your DD, and your DH. What a horrible situation!

[mommaduck]

Thank you all for your kind words of encouragement. My gut tells me the same thing about keeping a distance. We try to never say negative things about them in front of dd, sometimes that can be really hard. In FIL’s defense (yes, he is 73) or excuse he was raised in Oklahoma during a bad time and only received a 4th grade education before he was put behind a plow on the farm. MIL has stood by him but I’ve always noticed a bit of a flicker as if she wanted to contradict him, but never could quite do it. Mind you as far as I know FIL has never been physically abusive which is to his credit, as I understand it his father was. Oh, and this gets my goat a bit, they don’t attend any particular church they watch a minister on TV and send what little money they don’t have there. Unfortunately there is no one even remotely local that he hasn’t cussed out or ran off. He has had his kind and tender moments but for the most part he has been a big poop since I’ve known him. Age has only ripened him past the point of rotten. This has been pretty hard on Dh but fortunately for us dd and I always come first. I do want to encourage Dh to try and convey to MIL that if she does need help to please feel that we have not shunned her. I feel she really needs to know that she has an option.

 

 

Two things I note here:

 

He only had a 4th grade education. His age, his generation, the pride issue, being a man, etc. All this would play into his view of a woman not needing to "know math" (read as "know more than him").

 

He isn't part of a local church. This is common with those (not all, so home churchers, don't chew my gullet!) that are trying to maintain an iron fist of control over their families. They have to fully depend on him and him alone. No other thoughts coming in, no other relationships that might taint his water.

 

 

BTW, I'm not saying ANY of this excuses his bad behaviour; it doesn't. Not one bit. Just gives you a bit of insight and more encouragement that his problems are just that, HIS problems. Has nothing to do with you. He's just a mean old bigot.

Edited August 1, 2009 by mommaduck

[JudyJudyJudy]

wow, i just typed a lot and hit delete. i would maintain distance. lots of distance. if they ask for help, then you can decide what help you can offer. but they denied their (other) son. the "evil asian eyes" comment would be enough for me to do precisely what you've done.... and to keep it that way. you are maintaining contact but in a controlled fashion.

 

they may need to get ready to leave the farm as they age, and helping them stay there may not be a kindness. your MIL may be safer in a more populated setting.

 

:grouphug:

I totally agree with all of this. I would keep my distance.

 

 

Thank you all for your kind words of encouragement. My gut tells me the same thing about keeping a distance. We try to never say negative things about them in front of dd, sometimes that can be really hard. In FIL’s defense (yes, he is 73) or excuse he was raised in Oklahoma during a bad time and only received a 4th grade education before he was put behind a plow on the farm. MIL has stood by him but I’ve always noticed a bit of a flicker as if she wanted to contradict him, but never could quite do it. Mind you as far as I know FIL has never been physically abusive which is to his credit, as I understand it his father was. Oh, and this gets my goat a bit, they don’t attend any particular church they watch a minister on TV and send what little money they don’t have there. Unfortunately there is no one even remotely local that he hasn’t cussed out or ran off. He has had his kind and tender moments but for the most part he has been a big poop since I’ve known him. Age has only ripened him past the point of rotten. This has been pretty hard on Dh but fortunately for us dd and I always come first. I do want to encourage Dh to try and convey to MIL that if she does need help to please feel that we have not shunned her. I feel she really needs to know that she has an option.

This is not a good excuse. My father grew up in the rural Deep South. He and his family were sharecroppers, so they had to drop out of school in elementary school and work for the family. Regardless, my father would never have behaved this way. Even my uncle who isn't always easy to get along with dealt with it when I married a hispanic. Only my youngest uncle and one of my first cousins were ugly about it, but it wasn't because of how they grew up; it was because they are just bitter, racist men.

[BillieBoy]

This is not a good excuse. My father grew up in the rural Deep South. He and his family were sharecroppers, so they had to drop out of school in elementary school and work for the family. Regardless, my father would never have behaved this way. Even my uncle who isn't always easy to get along with dealt with it when I married a hispanic. Only my youngest uncle and one of my first cousins were ugly about it, but it wasn't because of how they grew up; it was because they are just bitter, racist men.

 

You are right of course, it was a poor excuse. Sometimes it easier to make excuses than to wrap my brain around the whys. My dh and my late bil were perfect examples how you can rise out of a situation of ignorance and hatred and become loving, caring, productive members of our society. I'd like to think that MIL had something to do with that.

 

My dh doesn't really go for the honor your parents train of thought. That is all me. He feels respect is earned not a right just because you share blood. I'm also coming from the fact that I lost my father a few years ago and know it would just be sad for him not to have any closure with his father.

 

Ugh! Why do people have to be so ugly?

[BillieBoy]

I just read the "beware of troll" post and finally got my answer to what a troll is. Let me just say that I do have close friends who would support me in what ever I choose to do or don't do. But sometimes it's really nice to be able to put it out there in words to the universe and get responses from people that aren't right on top of the situation or can see though the stuff without bias. If I let her, my best friend would be the first in line throwing punches at my FIL. But really what would that solve?

 

I very much appreciate the different points of view on this board. It has even softened me a bit on some stereotyping I was harboring. There are some very wise people here. I'm grateful you guys are out there sending forth your armies of homeschooled kids to make wise the world.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Mind you as far as I know FIL has never been physically abusive which is to his credit, as I understand it his father was.

 

 

Please know that I say this with much love and compassion, but the fact that he never used physical violence is actually NOT to his credit.

 

He doesn't get points for this.

 

I work with DV victims and many of them say that the emotional abuse/verbal abuse is worse because it is more insidious and it doesn't leave any tangible evidence. It leaves them wondering if maybe they imagined it or if they are crazy.

 

 

Please know that I am NOT attacking you, so if I came across that way I do deeply apologize. I have heard other women say that they would recommend that someone leave their abusive husband "only if the abuse were physical".

 

Also, in MANY, MANY DV situations there is sexual abuse as well, but it is never reported as many wives feel like they must allow their husbands to do whatever they like with their wives bodies and they have no recourse.

 

 

I'm so sorry that you and your family are dealing with this! Many psych's say that "we become more of who we are as we age".

 

Too true. :grouphug:

[eternalknot]

I feel so much empathy for you.

 

I'm Asian. I married a white guy who ran off to the military to escape his overbearing, bigot parents. I had the genuis idea to reunite him with his family because that's how I was raised (like you). If I had only known then what I know now ... huh? Every time the inlaws cause drama, my husband likes to remind me that he told me so. And he sure did, but I wasn't listening back then!

 

I maintained (Asian) cultural norms for many years, despite my increasing discomfort with knowing how the inlaws felt about me and spoke about me. They often spoke in their native tongue in my presence, knowing I wouldn't understand but not hiding the fact that they were discussing me. It was important to me that my child (their first grandchild) know his entire family - warts, hogs, and all. It is still important to me.

 

I finally drew the line when a series of racist comments were directed at me in the presence of my toddler. My husband was deployed at the time, but I had flown myself and my son to spend Christmas with his family in the name of being a good DIL. My FIL then tried to justify his comments to my husband, who called his parents as he soon as he read my scathing email account of the situation. My husband told his parents they lost unsupervised time with our son, and that any further visits would ONLY take place in OUR home (I happened to live with my parents at the time, so DH knew the inlaws wouldn't be visiting before he came back Stateside.)

 

This has been our reality for the past six years. Only in the past year have I started once again to let the kids fly out to stay with the inlaws (always supervised, if not with DH than with me ... boy is that "fun" for all involved parties). I've come to a certain peace about the inlaws; detaching myself from the idea that my cultural background is applicable to my differently-cultured reality. I stopped trying to cut and paste my culture onto that of my husband's family. I now have a "When in Rome" attitude towards our respective family dynamics. Trying to superimpose my cultural beliefs onto my husband's family was a futile and frustrating exercise; now I follow his lead when it comes to matters with his family. I sit back and sometimes bite my tongue until it bleeds LOL and remember that this his HIS turf and trust that he knows better how to navigate it.

 

This is still contrary to my own upbringing that you honor your elders regardless of how horrible they are; that they're still your elders and by that right alone are deserving of respect. Very different model than the standard Western idea that respect is earned, and is a two-way street. I think it's easier for a Christian to beg off this particular "duty" than it is for an Asian - we simply don't have any recourse built in to our belief. But again - my inlaws aren't Asian, so I don't apply Asian norms to them because that's a no-win situation. It hasn't been an easy personal reconciliation, but it's made for less stress and drama all around. I'll take what I can get :)

 

In your situation I'd support DH in any desire or compulsion he felt to help his mom. I'd be pretty adamant that all assistance be infrequent and supervised, or frequent from a safe distance, in the interest of protecting you and DD from FIL's poison. My son loves FIL dearly, but has said that he feels sorry that the man is so consumed by "hate and ignorance" that he'd let those drive a rift between him and his loved ones. It's not the relationship I envisioned for my son and his grandfather, but it's been a lesson in life and faith that my son won't likely forget.

 

Best of luck to your family.

[Hockey Mom]

Has he been checked for Alzheimer's? The anger could be the onset of Alzheimer's.

 

WRT the rest of your post, I don't really have much advice. If it were me, I'd probably avoid him at all costs, but be civil when I couldn't avoid him. That's probably the best type of 'honor' you could give him at this point.

[Mari]

In your situation I'd support DH in any desire or compulsion he felt to help his mom. I'd be pretty adamant that all assistance be infrequent and supervised, or frequent from a safe distance, in the interest of protecting you and DD from FIL's poison. My son loves FIL dearly, but has said that he feels sorry that the man is so consumed by "hate and ignorance" that he'd let those drive a rift between him and his loved ones. It's not the relationship I envisioned for my son and his grandfather, but it's been a lesson in life and faith that my son won't likely forget.

 

 

Thank you so much for posting this. I've been following the thread and feeling so sad for the OP (:grouphug: to her, by the way) but I've been struggling with the idea of what I would do in this situation. It's so difficult but I really do believe that most in most cases, it is possible to take lemons and make lemonade.

 

I know others have responded that the OP should keep herself and DD at a distance I'm not sure that's the right thing to do given the ages of the inlaws. I can't imagine being a 70+ yr old woman wondering what's to become of herself as the man who has protected and provided for her is on a downward slope. There's gotta be some serious fear there, enough that she is sharing this with the only son she has to help them as they age. Who knows how cranky and horrible any of us will become in our old age.

 

I think regardless of their attitudes in the past, the whole family should help them. It's just the right thing to do given that with all their shortcomings, they still raised the man the OP fell in love with. And I think the DD is old enough to realize what is going on and will realize the same as the boy did in the quote above. There will have to be a lot of discussion behind the scenes to help her see the bigger picture. It will definitely be a life lesson she'll never forget either but she'll also learn about unconditional love and the great character of her father who honored his parents to the end of their lives. She'll also learn about the strength of her mother who can look into the face of racism and hatred and still reach deep inside to find compassion and loyalty to support her husband through this difficult time.

[Mari]

Has he been checked for Alzheimer's? The anger could be the onset of Alzheimer's.

 

 

This is exactly what I was wondering. There is a general "crankiness" that goes with aging but often there's more to the medical story contributing to it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

I'm Asian. I married a white guy who ran off to the military to escape his overbearing, bigot parents. I had the genuis idea to reunite him with his family because that's how I was raised (like you). If I had only known then what I know now ... huh? Every time the inlaws cause drama, my husband likes to remind me that he told me so. And he sure did, but I wasn't listening back then!

 

I maintained (Asian) cultural norms for many years, despite my increasing discomfort with knowing how the inlaws felt about me and spoke about me. They often spoke in their native tongue in my presence, knowing I wouldn't understand but not hiding the fact that they were discussing me. It was important to me that my child (their first grandchild) know his entire family - warts, hogs, and all. It is still important to me.

I'm "the white girl" in my marriage, but I can relate to this. :(

[katemary63]

 

Ugh! Why do people have to be so ugly?

 

My question exactly. My father was so ugly, I cut off all contact with him and my children do not even know him. I agree with one poster that I AM honoring him. I have given him exactly what he worked so hard to earn. No relationship what-so-ever. Some people are toxic...just so toxic...that you CAN'T be around them. There is the old saying, "You made your bed, now lie in it." That's not meant to be cruel like you shouldn't care. There is pity to be felt. But what can you do? You can't subject your family to abuse. (The saying, "evil asian eyes" makes me just puke!) He created this situation and niether you nor DH are responsible for fixing it. All this goes for MIL, too. She is not a victim. She has made her own choices. Sad, pitiful, but her's. Non of this is easy for me to say or do because I am a Christian and I believe in forgiveness and restoration. But...there is a point where you have to protect your family and you are justified in stepping away. DH is no longer responsible in MHO.

[BillieBoy]

 

This is still contrary to my own upbringing that you honor your elders regardless of how horrible they are; that they're still your elders and by that right alone are deserving of respect. Very different model than the standard Western idea that respect is earned, and is a two-way street. I think it's easier for a Christian to beg off this particular "duty" than it is for an Asian - we simply don't have any recourse built in to our belief. But again - my inlaws aren't Asian, so I don't apply Asian norms to them because that's a no-win situation. It hasn't been an easy personal reconciliation, but it's made for less stress and drama all around. I'll take what I can get :)

 

In your situation I'd support DH in any desire or compulsion he felt to help his mom. I'd be pretty adamant that all assistance be infrequent and supervised, or frequent from a safe distance, in the interest of protecting you and DD from FIL's poison. My son loves FIL dearly, but has said that he feels sorry that the man is so consumed by "hate and ignorance" that he'd let those drive a rift between him and his loved ones. It's not the relationship I envisioned for my son and his grandfather, but it's been a lesson in life and faith that my son won't likely forget.

 

Best of luck to your family.

 

I can see you really can empathize. I always said I would never put a parent or any elder relative in a nursing home or show disrespect. I had always maintained this was one of the banes of American culture, but now....I'm just not so sure. I guess this is a lesson on never say never.

[BillieBoy]

Has he been checked for Alzheimer's? The anger could be the onset of Alzheimer's.

 

 

The last phone conversation with MIL, Dh asked this. She said that he isn't forgetting things, in fact he keeps remembering a lot of really old things that made him mad in the past and starts ranting about them all over again. He does have a heart condition and sees a Dr. regularly but I doubt Alzheimer's has been brought up.

[BillieBoy]

T

I think regardless of their attitudes in the past, the whole family should help them. It's just the right thing to do given that with all their shortcomings, they still raised the man the OP fell in love with. And I think the DD is old enough to realize what is going on and will realize the same as the boy did in the quote above. There will have to be a lot of discussion behind the scenes to help her see the bigger picture. It will definitely be a life lesson she'll never forget either but she'll also learn about unconditional love and the great character of her father who honored his parents to the end of their lives. She'll also learn about the strength of her mother who can look into the face of racism and hatred and still reach deep inside to find compassion and loyalty to support her husband through this difficult time.

 

Oh boy, this is the crux of my dilemma. Your words made me tear up. What you say is true. Shouldn’t we be the better people in this? FIL is in his 70's, MIL late 60's but in poor health, of the three sons, only my Dh is left (middle son passed in his 20's; horrific accident). Dh is a very compassionate man, though he puts us first always, I have faith in him to do what is right without jeopardizing us in anyway. I am the one at odds with myself. We have impressed upon dd that racism is wrong but that the racist is also a person with all the faults and fragilities that come with humanity. She understands this from a distance. I just don’t want her to be the victim of it, again. Meaning, if we had to temporarily go there and settle things, we could be there to support Dh but stay behind the scenes with no FIL contact. MIL would not be a problem; she is a different person when alone. I just don't know.

[Mari]

Oh boy, this is the crux of my dilemma. Your words made me tear up. What you say is true. Shouldn’t we be the better people in this? FIL is in his 70's, MIL late 60's but in poor health, of the three sons, only my Dh is left (middle son passed in his 20's; horrific accident). Dh is a very compassionate man, though he puts us first always, I have faith in him to do what is right without jeopardizing us in anyway. I am the one at odds with myself. We have impressed upon dd that racism is wrong but that the racist is also a person with all the faults and fragilities that come with humanity. She understands this from a distance. I just don’t want her to be the victim of it, again. Meaning, if we had to temporarily go there and settle things, we could be there to support Dh but stay behind the scenes with no FIL contact. MIL would not be a problem; she is a different person when alone. I just don't know.

 

This might be a silly question...forgive me...but have you seen the movie Gran Torino? I loved that movie and I never thought I would. My husband picked it out and I reluctantly gave in to watch it with him. It has become one of my favorites with so many messages about overcoming stereotypes and racial and family differences. Definitely do NOT watch with DD within earshot. Anyhow, I'm reminded by this movie that, when given a chance to witness and receive kindness, friendship, and compassion; even the most bigoted can have a change of heart.

 

I understand you not wanting DD to be a victim of FIL tirades. I just don't understand how it would be possible to stay behind the scenes and have no contact with him. What you are describing sounds like the beginning of a long road ahead...are you able to stay away from him for that long? What would your living arrangements be if you go there? It's late and I'm rambling here, but I wonder the toll this is taking on you husband, having to make these decisions and trying to factor in his support for you when he's feeling an obligation toward his parents.

 

Might you consider DH going by himself first for awhile to assess the situation and get a clearer picture for himself? He may be able to secure outside help for her temporarily until long term arrangements must be made. At least it allows both of you the satisfaction knowing you are doing something for them and buys you some time in discussing this with your daughter.

[keptwoman]

The last phone conversation with MIL, Dh asked this. She said that he isn't forgetting things, in fact he keeps remembering a lot of really old things that made him mad in the past and starts ranting about them all over again. He does have a heart condition and sees a Dr. regularly but I doubt Alzheimer's has been brought up.

The thing about dementia is that past memory is excellent. Folks remember what happened 30 years ago a lot better than what happened yesterday. I've worked in aged care and I'd say your FIL definitely has the hallmarks of some kind of age related mental deterioration. Maybe Alzheimers but maybe a different type of dementia. Perhaps your DH could call your FILs family doctor and get them to look into it. Aged care may be just what your FIL needs for both his and your MILs best interests.

 

I'm so sorry what a terribly hard situation. I tend to agree with other posters that your first responsibility is to protect your daughter from hearing hurtful things.

 

I hope you are able to find a solution that you can all be at peace with.

[ConnieB]

I work with DV victims and many of them say that the emotional abuse/verbal abuse is worse because it is more insidious and it doesn't leave any tangible evidence. It leaves them wondering if maybe they imagined it or if they are crazy.

 

 

 

 

 

:iagree: Plus society doesn't view most verbal abuse as truly abusive like they do punching someone. And it's victims most times believe what is being said about them. If you hear how stupid you are often enough you're going to believe it. And that of course affects everything else that you will ever feel about yourself.

 

Verbal abuse doesn't leave outward marks like beating someone does, so it's much harder to make people believe that you are a victim. And most people who only see/hear a few well aimed verbal barrages tend to brush it off as "that's how Joe is" and fail to see how the constant barrage chips away at the victim. And throw in that OP's MIL grew up and married in an era where divorce wasn't an option, so she never considered leaving him for his verbal abuse in the early marriage years......she may be so verbally abused to the point of believing that she doesn't deserve any better life anyway. If OP has seen flickers where MIL wanted to oppose FIL, then sadly this scenario sounds like it is probably true. Again I'll say I think once FIL is out of the picture OP and MIL will have a completely different relationship.

[....]

I'm white and my husband is Korean. Our kids are biracial. I am EXTREMELY protective of my kids' feelings with regards to race. Kids at that age are still trying to develop self-esteem, self-worth and just figure out who they are.

 

We've had many family run-ins during our 8 years of marriage. If I were in your situation, I would keep your child away from those family members.

 

Good luck. I always say marriage is very difficult, but interracial marriage is a whole new ballgame. :glare:

[Harriet Vane]

As one who deals with toxic family routinely, I agree with the posters who say not to expose your child to this man.

 

I am a Christian. Your post does not offend me. Your fil's behavior is NOT biblical, and I am truly sorry for the hurts you and your dd and dh have experienced.:grouphug:

 

Yes, it IS possible to help and to honor without exposing the vulnerable to harm. Honoring your elders does not have to mean living with or in proximity, nor does it have to mean running the family farm. It is completely possible for you to support dh without having to be there yourself. And, honestly, if fil has chosen to funnel part of his rage at you and dd as Asians, then it could truly be an act of kindness to stay out of his way, especially if he is dealing with dementia. It could also make the work simpler for dh. You can support behind the scenes by supporting dh, by sending homecooked meals, or, as issues related to aging increase over time, by running some of the errands or making the phone calls for dr appts. Dh will need you to be his sanctuary.

Honoring your elders can simply mean making sure that the basics of food, shelter, and medical care are covered.

 

I also think it would be compassionate to give the occasional photo of dd to your mil.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The thing about dementia is that past memory is excellent. Folks remember what happened 30 years ago a lot better than what happened yesterday. I've worked in aged care and I'd say your FIL definitely has the hallmarks of some kind of age related mental deterioration. Maybe Alzheimers but maybe a different type of dementia. Perhaps your DH could call your FILs family doctor and get them to look into it. Aged care may be just what your FIL needs for both his and your MILs best interests.

 

.

 

Get him medically checked out. (If your dh has any kind of influence on your FIL, he might have to go and help get your FIL to the Dr. ) If there are medical reasons behind this, getting him care that is appropriate to his needs is honoring your FIL. It is also honoring to your MIL.

[BillieBoy]

This might be a silly question...forgive me...but have you seen the movie Gran Torino? I loved that movie and I never thought I would. My husband picked it out and I reluctantly gave in to watch it with him. It has become one of my favorites with so many messages about overcoming stereotypes and racial and family differences. Definitely do NOT watch with DD within earshot. Anyhow, I'm reminded by this movie that, when given a chance to witness and receive kindness, friendship, and compassion; even the most bigoted can have a change of heart.

 

I understand you not wanting DD to be a victim of FIL tirades. I just don't understand how it would be possible to stay behind the scenes and have no contact with him. What you are describing sounds like the beginning of a long road ahead...are you able to stay away from him for that long? What would your living arrangements be if you go there? It's late and I'm rambling here, but I wonder the toll this is taking on you husband, having to make these decisions and trying to factor in his support for you when he's feeling an obligation toward his parents.

 

Might you consider DH going by himself first for awhile to assess the situation and get a clearer picture for himself? He may be able to secure outside help for her temporarily until long term arrangements must be made. At least it allows both of you the satisfaction knowing you are doing something for them and buys you some time in discussing this with your daughter.

 

No, I haven't seen Gran Torino but I'm going to now :001_smile:

 

I think my first choice would be to send Dh by himself, but he is never keen on being apart from us. Right now there is some sneaky going on. MIL got a prepaid phone card so Dh can call her under the radar. If he can convince her to get him to the Dr. 1/2 our troubles would be solved but she is pretty old school. They've leased out most of the farm these past few years so at least the fields are being taken care of and it covers the stupid mortgage they got a few years ago. I need to ask Dh to get some details for me regarding FILS union retirement insurance benefits to see what can be covered. But selling off a farm, esp. in these hard times, will be a huge chore and could take forever. Physically Dh would have to do everything if FIL went into a facility, MIL is fairly immobile. Then there is what will MIL want to do after, she will need assistance.

[Mari]

I'm so sorry. I really have been thinking of you this weekend but alas, my kids and hubby took over on the computer and well, I just didn't have a chance of getting on again.

 

I know it's hard to be apart, but I really think it will give your husband clarity in the situation. Even if it's only a week and his mom would probably feel better, too, not having to sneak around. He might even be able to find alternate living arrangements for you all if you ultimately go there to live.

 

Good luck. I hope everything gets better for you all.