s/o how to get my teen to sleep at night

[springmama]

If anyone has read my other thread, you'll see that I believe my teenager's poor attitude (to put it mildly) is a result of poor sleep habits.

 

I've been trying to break the cycle of her staying up late and sleeping during the day for years.

 

Even during the school year she comes home from school and goes to sleep and then wakes up at 7pm sometimes.

 

I have taken away priveleges, offered rewards and I also take away electronics in the evenings.

 

That hasn't worked.

 

Right now she's in her room sleeping and won't get up. I don't see how she's going to sleep tonight if she spends all day sleeping, but I don't know how to wake her up right now without a war erupting in her room.

 

So, if you've got a teen with a whacked out sleep schedule and she doesn't agree that things need to change after multiple calm discussions and many fact presented to her, how do you get her to sleep during the day and not at night?

[Ottakee]

First I would get her a good physical with blood work to check for blood sugar issues, anemia, thyroid, etc. If something pops up the doctor can help you address those issues.

 

If not, you might have to arrange for her NOT to be able to sleep during the day. Melatonin might be helpful for regulating her sleep cycles as well.

[springmama]

Thanks Ottakee. I've done all this. Nothing is wrong with her physically. They have done blood work and found nothing.

 

I guess what I'm asking for is creative discipline ideas. She really just needs to stay awake for a few days during the day and I believe she will work herself back to a normal sleep cycle, but she refuses to even begin to try to comply with my requests.

 

She has been known to make coffee in the night just to stay awake all day. Consequences don't seem to work.

[Only me]

My dd 14 is having major sleep issues but she doesn't sleep during the day. Nothing has helped with my dd but one thing the sleep specialist suggested when we first went to her was for dd to stay up until 2:00 (the usual time she was able to fall sleep). Then I had to wake her up 8 hours later. The next night she would try to go to sleep at 1:30 and I would wake her 8 hours later, etc. until she was going to bed at 10:30 and waking up 6:30 or 7:00. Unfortunately nothing has worked for dd but perhaps something like that would work with yours.

 

My dd had a sleep study done and she also has problems staying asleep at night. She is only getting 2-3 hours of actual sleep a night. We're getting pretty desperate because nothing has worked and we have gone to numerous specialists.

[Alice]

Not sure if any of this will help but some things sleep specialists recommend:

 

-Gradually change the times as mentioned in the above post. You can even go slower, like by 15 minute increments. Try taking away 15 minutes at a time from the daytime sleep instead of telling her not to sleep at all. It's tough to alter sleep habits once established.

 

-Don't do anything in bed other than sleep. If you are having trouble sleeping then it's good to not read, watch TV, listen to music etc. I'm not saying this is true for the average person, I enjoy reading in bed before falling asleep. But usually if someone is having trouble sleeping, I've heard the sleep experts recommend making the bed only for sleep to kind of get your mind to think sleep as soon as you get in bed.

 

-Don't lie in bed for more than 20 minutes at time without falling asleep. For someone who has trouble sleeping, they can create a self-fulfulling prophecy because they think "I never fall asleep for 2 hours" and then they get in bed and can't fall asleep. Lie there for 20 minutes, then get up and do something quiet away from the bed for 20-30 minutes, then get back in bed.

 

-Avoid exercise or eating for a few hours before trying to fall asleep. Avoid caffeine.

 

Not sure if any of that will help, especially if she isn't really invested in solving the problem. If it's more of a behavioral thing that she likes, I doubt any of this will help.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, you could make sure you are out in the afternoon when she normally sleeps. Go on field trips, go to the park, go to the mall, visit friends - you might find that you are working on your relationship with your daughter even while you are keeping her up.

[springmama]

Well, you could make sure you are out in the afternoon when she normally sleeps. Go on field trips, go to the park, go to the mall, visit friends - you might find that you are working on your relationship with your daughter even while you are keeping her up.

 

I have tried this but will try again. Normally she just wants to sleep in the car.

[Aunty Social]

hmmm....Well, since medical issues have been ruled out.....First I would talk with her again about how important it is she gets her sleep. Pull out a few news articles and medical websites to show her that it's not just a "mom being mean" thing, but a real medical concern.

 

Then, I would tell her that I was going to help her learn how to have a proper sleep pattern. First step is to ban all caffinated drinks. All the time. She will have a set time in the evening that she must be in her room (and her pj's). If you think it will help, I might suggest a warm bath with some epsom salts beforehand and maybe a cup of relaxing tea like chamomile. No matter what time she goes to sleep, you will wake her at a reasonable hour in the morning - you get to define reasonable (I always like 9). Lastly, I would ban all electronics for an hour before her room time, and I would take her cell phone, ipod, computer, etc out of her room. I would leave a few good books, and a cd player with some relaxing cds. Once she is in her room she is not to come out - even for the bathroom if you can help it. With a teen this might require you to sleep in the hallway for a while:tongue_smilie:.

 

Once you wake her in the morning, make sure she does not have the time to take a nap. Run, run, run! You'll get more errands done, make more library trips, go on more walks, and have a cleaner house than ever before!

 

If she won't get up in the morning, I hear a bucket of cold water works wonders:D.

 

I'm certain this will not be popular with your dd, but the hope is that after you stand strong and get through the first couple weeks her sleep pattern will start to normalize. And once that happens, she should start to notice the difference in how she feels.

 

15 is a tough age. Not a little kid, not able to make adult decisions.

 

ETA: I notice that you are concerned about finding ways to wake her/keep her awake without arguments. I don't think this is realistic. You're dealing with a teen who likes her sleep habits and is not going to want to change. Friction is inevitable. If you really believe that her current sleep patterns are detrimental, then you'll have to fight the war - just keep it confined to sleep and continue to treat her with love and respect in all your other dealings with her. Is sleep a hill worth defending? Since it is affecting her relationship with you, I'd say it is.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Aunty Social

[newbie]

hmmm....Well, since medical issues have been ruled out.....First I would talk with her again about how important it is she gets her sleep. Pull out a few news articles and medical websites to show her that it's not just a "mom being mean" thing, but a real medical concern.

 

Then, I would tell her that I was going to help her learn how to have a proper sleep pattern. First step is to ban all caffinated drinks. All the time. She will have a set time in the evening that she must be in her room (and her pj's). If you think it will help, I might suggest a warm bath with some epsom salts beforehand and maybe a cup of relaxing tea like chamomile. No matter what time she goes to sleep, you will wake her at a reasonable hour in the morning - you get to define reasonable (I always like 9). Lastly, I would ban all electronics for an hour before her room time, and I would take her cell phone, ipod, computer, etc out of her room. I would leave a few good books, and a cd player with some relaxing cds. Once she is in her room she is not to come out - even for the bathroom if you can help it. With a teen this might require you to sleep in the hallway for a while:tongue_smilie:.

 

Once you wake her in the morning, make sure she does not have the time to take a nap. Run, run, run! You'll get more errands done, make more library trips, go on more walks, and have a cleaner house than ever before!

 

If she won't get up in the morning, I hear a bucket of cold water works wonders:D.

 

I'm certain this will not be popular with your dd, but the hope is that after you stand strong and get through the first couple weeks her sleep pattern will start to normalize. And once that happens, she should start to notice the difference in how she feels.

 

15 is a tough age. Not a little kid, not able to make adult decisions.

 

:iagree:Also, cereal or calcium before bed will help. Perhaps a lil nap after school is good, she had a long day. But buy one of those traveling alarm clocks that run around the room so she has to get up and turn it off.

 

We bought my dd a voice activated alarm from Hammacher and the alarm is annoying, it keeps getting louder than if you dont turn it off it keeps going off. Ick, but it works. Plus it has sleep sounds and they think its cool.

[Impish]

Honestly? Go start a war, if thats what it takes. Avoiding bad behaviour from her shouldn't be a part of your decision making. She shouldn't be napping, so insist that she get up.

 

As for sleep at night, I 2nd the recommendation of melatonin.

[springmama]

:iagree:Also, cereal or calcium before bed will help. Perhaps a lil nap after school is good, she had a long day. But buy one of those traveling alarm clocks that run around the room so she has to get up and turn it off.

 

We bought my dd a voice activated alarm from Hammacher and the alarm is annoying, it keeps getting louder than if you dont turn it off it keeps going off. Ick, but it works. Plus it has sleep sounds and they think its cool.

 

I've never seen an alarm clock that runs around the room...need to google that.

 

Would you believe that this child has actually faked me out during the school year by getting up and acting like she is getting ready for school and then going back to bed when I leave the room? She's also gotten out of bed, walked across the room and unplugged her alarm clock and gone back to sleep.

[Aunty Social]

Would you believe that this child has actually faked me out during the school year by getting up and acting like she is getting ready for school and then going back to bed when I leave the room? She's also gotten out of bed, walked across the room and unplugged her alarm clock and gone back to sleep.

 

Sounds like she's lost the right to control her own wake and sleep schedule. In our house we would view those actions as lying to us - and nothing brings down parental wrath quicker. Does she have any consequences for being late to school?

[Rosie_0801]

What's her diet like? Apart from the nasty caffeine habit, of course. If we find ourselves relying on stimulants like that, it often means dehydration and lack of proper food.

 

Rosie

[lgm]

There is a bit of research out on sleep and teens:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/from/sleep.html

http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/sleep-disorders/archives/childrensdisorders_teens.htm

 

 

Exercise. Swim team, jog, aerobic class...something for at least 30 min each a.m.

 

Also, have you checked for sleep apnea symptoms?

[gingersmom]

I think the sleep issue is just part of something bigger going on in her life.

 

Have you thought about having her talk to a therapist?

[Danestress]

Honestly? Go start a war, if thats what it takes. Avoiding bad behaviour from her shouldn't be a part of your decision making. She shouldn't be napping, so insist that she get up.

 

As for sleep at night, I 2nd the recommendation of melatonin.

 

If the thing that is keeping you from asserting yourself if fear of conflict, I think you need to just accept a level of conflict. I'd be willing to have conflict over this. I would not have this teenager up all night unsupervised.

 

Does she have ANY privileges she actually cares about? Computer access? TV? Cell phone?

 

But at the same time, I would still be worried about depression and I also would be worried that maybe she's so unhappy in your home that she's choosing to avoid interacting with you during the day by sleeping, and then stays up at night when she doesn't have to deal with family members.

[SonshineLearner]

Also, you know that when you're sleeping a lot, you are showing possible depression...or not wanting to deal with what's going on. Would she rather sleep? or get together with friends?? If she's good to go when she's with friends...I'd concentrate on if she's just wanting to avoid *me* or *her family*. Who was it on here that was talking about when they forced.....yes forced....their teen into talking... a big stare forever time until the teen will open up.

Do they feel like your fair?? I remember being very hormonal...and my mom couldn't have forced me to talk...except for if she had really been open to what I felt...and had more patience than a room full of Saints...

Carrie

[Peela]

It sounds like you guys are at war already. If she is asleep as you write this, and you dont want her to be....you have obviously lost control big time and that is the issue.

I read one person on a thread here years ago, who poured frozen marbles into their teen's bed.

Take the door off the hinges so you have access to her room at all times.

Get a spray bottle and spray her.

I would do all these things if it got that bad here.

I have a 15yo teen who will sleep in and stay up late if allowed. Its not allowed, so its not an issue. We bang on her door if she sleeps in (school days) and if I have to bang too often she loses priveleges. But i am not generally at war with her.

 

Somehow though it sounds like you have lost your daughter's heart and I dont know the solution to that other than it would be a priority for me to get it back again, to build our relationship. And of course tough love may be a necessary component of that.

I suggest you don't lost your temper with her. Deal with her matter of factly and as severely as needed, but keep working on keeping your own heart clear and loving for her, rather than resentful. She is a child going through a hard time with her family. I was one of those once and my mother's tripping out didnt help at all. Guilt tripping me absolutely didnt work either. I didnt care because I didnt feel heard or understood. If she had been willing to be humble and sit down with me and try and sort it out, respecting me while telling me how hard it was for her and how she felt and why she was behaving as she was, I might have listened. YOu may well be past that stage. I am not even Christian and I would pray for a solution to come to me, so that I could see a way through with this child. I have honestly found that when I am at my wits end and ask for help, it always comes.

[springmama]

Thanks so much for all of the wonderful advice! I don't have much time to answer all of the questions, but in short...

 

we have done therapy and she pretty much tells the therapist that it's her way or the highway and has a million excuses why "compromise" isn't in her vocabulary and why all of the therapist's ideas are not going to work for her.

 

She also has a very poor diet but we dont' even have junk food in the house. She'd live off pasta or bread. I suspect a carb addiction but getting her to start eating healthfully is harder than you think.

 

I left the house when dh got home from work at 6:30 because I needed a break after her major attitude today and after I left dh told me she went up to her room and didn't come back down and now she is sleeping. I'm hoping she sleeps all night.

 

Tomorrow we are going blueberry picking and then to the park and I have no doubt she'll whine the entire time about being hot but I think she'll secretly like it. Even if she doesn't, she'll be outdoors most of the day and will hopefully sleep tomorrow night.