Philadelphia swim club kicks out black kids

[Imprimis]

I do believe racism can go both ways. I just don't understand how that relates in any way to the story that's being discussed here. If this club has done what they've been accused of, then that's racism and it's wrong.

 

I completely agree!

[Spy Car]

To attempt to draw an analogy between people whose ancestors were enslaved, grand-parents likely victims of Jim Crow laws, and are still living with the vestiges of racism including unequal schools and "restrictions" of private racist clubs (to name only a few outrages) and those persecuted minorities establishment of leagues, professional associations, organizations and pageants when they have been excluded from "white" institutions with historical white racism and notions of racial suprematism, is one of the most despicable lines of reasoning I've ever read in my life.

 

Peoples true colors really come out in these threads.

 

I thought I might have lost the capacity to be shocked by the ugly attitudes that are frely expressed on this forum at times. But I was wrong.

 

I'm stocked. And profoundly sickened reading some of the comments in this thread.

 

Bill

Edited July 10, 2009 by Spy Car

[Elm in NJ]

[quote=Spy Car;

 

Peoples true colors really come out in these threads.

 

I thought I might have lost the capacity to be shocked by the ugly attitudes that are frely expressed on this forum at times. But I was wrong.

 

I'm stocked. And profoundly sickened reading some of the comments in this thread.

 

Bill

 

Why are you sickened? People here are just reflecting the kind of society we live in.

[Spy Car]

Why are you sickened? People here are just reflecting the kind of society we live in.

 

I thought we had made just a little more progress than this. I really did.

 

I'm under no illusions that racism is dead in America, but this?

 

It feels like looking directly into the face of Evil, and knowing it for what is.

 

Bill

[Pink Fairy]

I thought we had made just a little more progress than this. I really did.

 

I'm under no illusions that racism is dead in America, but this?

 

It feels like looking directly into the face of Evil, and knowing it for what is.

 

Bill

 

Bill, I've always been a silent (albeit disagreeing) fan, but this is a bit over the top. Are you claiming that some people's responses in this thread mean that they are racist?

[Tree House Academy]

Those are CHILDREN! I am outraged that they would be kicked out. The interviews on the news were just so sad! My God! We can nominate a bi-racial president, but this country is still racist against some CHILDREN. Ugh. How sickening!

[KingM]

How did this thread get tagged as Yankee bigotry? Didn't this happen somewhere in the south?

 

Not that we don't have bigots up here, too, but I don't think this one is on us. (Unless it's a Canadian or Australian who labels all Americans as Yanks.)

 

In any event, I think this is illustrative of bigotry of this particular club, not Americans or Southerners, or Whateverstatethiswasians.

 

ETA: Never mind, it was PA. I think I was confused by all the talk about Mississippi and the like.

[Peek a Boo]

"Allowed" to participate and allowed to succeed are two very different things.

 

The *first* Miss Black America pageant wasn't held until 1969 and it was held as a *protest event* to protest the Miss America pageant which did not allow black women at that time.

 

 

I agree with establishing a racist group in the face of racism to make a point. Continuing such a group makes the OPPOSITE point.

 

By and large the Miss America contest IS Miss White America. If not in word, by deed. The vast majority of the contestants in any given year are white even though they only make up around 66% of the population of the US.

 

 

so.....maintaining a racist Only Black Miss America contest is right??

 

While I realize it was a [group organized against persecution], I still think those involved in [the decision to maintain] it are a bunch of low life scum who deserve every bit of ridicule they get.

 

What have you done to combat racism other than to denounce minorities for pooling their own resources and giving minorities a chance to succeed in a culture and environment that is stacked against them? Why not charge the Miss America contest with gender discrimination while you're at it? You are not dialoguing here, you are ranting.

 

I've done quite a bit in my own little corner of the world -- that was just one example. There's a Big Difference between individuals pooling their resources and the Government stepping in and ESTABLISHING a racist policy. Are you telling me you don't understand the difference, or that you are fine w/ the GVT establishing racist policies? BTW, my alternate suggestion was to consider a "shop local" policy instead of one based on skin color or pedigree.

 

Not succeeding is NOT the same as not being allowed the chance to succeed. We can charge gender discrimination too if you want: I'm game. What about Statism? Has every state succeeded at winning the Miss America pageant? wait... I thought we were talking about racism. One injustice at a time. ;)

 

so when someone points out BOTH sides of racism --reverse racism-- that's RANTING. Got it. great excuse to dismiss the point of the argument.

 

Having a dream is great but you have to live in reality while you work toward a perfect world. That speech of which you are so fond includes the line: "Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. .... Do you *honestly* believe we have reached the end? When stories like this still appear in the news almost FIFTY years later? When *any* percentage of the people in this thread are willing to shrug their shoulders and say "well, it's a private club, whadda ya gonna do?"

 

IN REALITY, People aren't *shrugging their shoulders*: every single poster has denounced racism. What people have pointed out is the concept of a private entity: the same sort of "private minority groups" that want to "pool their resources" to succeed in an an environment that is stacked against recognizing freedom of private thought. No matter how much our society "progresses" in being respectful and tolerant of people, there will always be some people who look at skin color, gender, religion, or some other issue with contempt. Are you saying that those people should NOT be allowed to have an incorrect opinion in the privacy of their own home or club?

 

What people have pointed out is that there are several posters here who have walked [as predicted] the hypocritical "racism is horrible, but reverse racism is warm and fuzzy" road. THAT's what was being pointed out.

Not one person here has excused or shrugged off racism --except for when it is black racism towards other skin colors.

 

I know we haven't reached the end --but I find it utterly sad and ironic that the very people who have benefited from so many people's efforts to eliminate racism are the ones continuing to perpetuate it.

 

Someday I hope you are right and these types of organizations and pageants become superfluous but I don't think that time has yet come.

 

It's NEVER a "right time" to support a continued display of racism.

 

I do agree that people's true colors show when you start discussing All Kinds Of Racism. Some people are just bigoted against the other side. Go figger.

[Dirtroad]

How did this thread get tagged as Yankee bigotry? Didn't this happen somewhere in the south?

 

Not that we don't have bigots up here, too, but I don't think this one is on us. (Unless it's a Canadian or Australian who labels all Americans as Yanks.)

 

In any event, I think this is illustrative of bigotry of this particular club, not Americans or Southerners, or Whateverstatethiswasians.

 

ETA: Never mind, it was PA. I think I was confused by all the talk about Mississippi and the like.

 

Nope.... you Yanks get this one!:lol: Sorry... so glad b/c it would have been an even bigger EVIL had it happened in Alabama.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Peek a Boo]

To attempt to draw an analogy between people whose ancestors were enslaved, grand-parents likely victims of Jim Crow laws, and are still living with the vestiges of racism including unequal schools and "restrictions" of private racist clubs (to name only a few outrages) and those persecuted minorities establishment of leagues, professional associations, organizations and pageants when they have been excluded from "white" institutions with historical white racism and notions of racial suprematism, is one of the most despicable lines of reasoning I've ever read in my life.

 

Peoples true colors really come out in these threads.

 

wait a sec, let me make sure i got this straight:

racism is only okay as long as your ancestors were persecuted at some point or people are being cruel to you. Two wrongs make a right, and THAT's not despicable.

Got it.

[LUV2EDU]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peek a Boo

Which "black" organizations are YOU talking about? Do they allow other skin colors to participate? My daughter would not be eligible to enter the Miss Black America contest, yet black women are allowed to enter the Miss America contest. Is that NOT racial discrimination??

 

 

 

I don't know much about the Miss Black America contest other than that it was founded at a time when black women were banned from similar pageants, but I do know that MOST black organizations (universities, sororities, fraternities and professional groups) are open to individuals of any race as long as those individuals are supportive of the organization's goals.

 

However, IF whites aren't allowed to enter the Miss Black America contest, does that then make it okay to kick these children out of the pool because of their race?

 

I don't understand why the existence of the Miss Black America pageant (or any other black organization) has any bearing on whether the community club's actions were right or wrong.

 

I do believe racism can go both ways. I just don't understand how that relates in any way to the story that's being discussed here. If this club has done what they've been accused of, then that's racism and it's wrong.

 

 

:iagree::iagree: :iagree::grouphug:

 

 

[Dirtroad]

Bill doesn't believe Racism goes both ways (REALLY?) and that institutions that started in the honest spirit of "protest" can perhaps today NOT be for the same motivations or may be for various acts of defiance (even hate)? Racism cuts all directions.

 

Another point: The business of race must be kept alive by the very people who make a living off of it. If we all "get along" as is preached (and I wish for)... then they would be out of a job.

 

I also think having a post which is bringing up a sensitivity in one group to always think RACE is an issue does not mean the other group was racist NOR does asking the question of why society & media treat the issues of each group differently..... put the media in the mix and you get a full blown disaster. The question may not fit the pool story directly, but it fits the racism discussion going on with it.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Peek a Boo]

I don't know much about the Miss Black America contest other than that it was founded at a time when black women were banned from similar pageants, but I do know that MOST black organizations (universities, sororities, fraternities and professional groups) are open to individuals of any race as long as those individuals are supportive of the organization's goals.

 

the organization's goals to what? succeed by being racist?

you can read about the Miss Black America pageant at their website.

Minority set asides specifically exclude "white" people. By definition.

However, IF whites aren't allowed to enter the Miss Black America contest, does that then make it okay to kick these children out of the pool because of their race?

Nope. But you will not hear ANY of the [expected] posters here denouncing the racist policies of Black organizations. they will excuse that sort of racism.

I don't understand why the existence of the Miss Black America pageant (or any other black organization) has any bearing on whether the community club's actions were right or wrong.

 

I do believe racism can go both ways. I just don't understand how that relates in any way to the story that's being discussed here. If this club has done what they've been accused of, then that's racism and it's wrong.

 

It doesn't. It simply points out whether the "sickened" feeling by some posters is rightly racism or just certain forms of racism.

[Mrs Mungo]

I know we haven't reached the end --but I find it utterly sad and ironic that the very people who have benefited from so many people's efforts to eliminate racism are the ones continuing to perpetuate it.

 

 

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! I'm done.

[LUV2EDU]

To attempt to draw an analogy between people whose ancestors were enslaved, grand-parents likely victims of Jim Crow laws, and are still living with the vestiges of racism including unequal schools and "restrictions" of private racist clubs (to name only a few outrages) and those persecuted minorities establishment of leagues, professional associations, organizations and pageants when they have been excluded from "white" institutions with historical white racism and notions of racial suprematism, is one of the most despicable lines of reasoning I've ever read in my life.

 

Peoples true colors really come out in these threads.

 

I thought I might have lost the capacity to be shocked by the ugly attitudes that are frely expressed on this forum at times. But I was wrong.

 

I'm stocked. And profoundly sickened reading some of the comments in this thread.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

[Peek a Boo]

 

I know we haven't reached the end --but I find it utterly sad and ironic that the very people who have benefited from so many people's efforts to eliminate racism are the ones continuing to perpetuate it.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! I'm done.

 

yeah....

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! is kinda like my own reaction to what I stated.

seems fairly self-explanatory to me.

[Dirtroad]

Oversensitivity is common and often leads to cries of racism. I am always very cautious when I read this stuff in the media.... it isn't always what it seems.

 

I lived this garbage in high school with a specific group of black girls... if they didn't win something it was because they were black (NO, it was because they were not the best). I would put economic reasons ahead of their color b/c they didn't have baton or dance lessons since birth..... or both parents at home helping them with school work at night. But they were hyper-sensitive and it was always race. It was actually hate coming from their mouths... but could that be possible?

 

Black as a descriptive by a mother at poolside is NOT racism. NO different than camp kids, poor kids, strange kids... it is a descriptive. (N word... different matter). A teenage employee telling them to go is also not enough. He only knows how to do the specific life saving technique and turn on his ipod. The media will also take 2 odd or race-included statements to feed an entire story... not the other 48. I am just suspicious of the press.

 

There were 60 kids that none of the regulars knew.... 60 daycare kids with little (real) supervision & who knows what type of behaviors. I would have cleared out immediately also... because they were black... NO... because they were a MOB of kids at one time. see ya!

Edited July 10, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Dirtroad]

If we are truly bothered by RACISM.... why aren't we also outraged at the Ohio family getting pounded by a large group of teenagers. The Dad was in hospital for about 5 days!!!

 

Would we be outraged if the color of skin were reversed?

 

Media sure didn't keep that one stirred up for long... pool story gets better coverage.

[Peek a Boo]

I know what the VSC looked like in the 60's and it could handle 60 extra kids. The pool in those days was 'L' shaped, and the one leg was 25 yards or 25m (I suspect yards) and 6 swim lanes wide or was it 8 lanes wide. It had 2 diving boards, a low and a high one..........geez, such fond memories of swimming there........

 

 

except that safety standards [in SEVERAL areas] have changed significantly since the 60s. Even if the pool was BIG enough, the number of lifeguards could have been too low.

[fivetails]

I think this is the first time that I've had a thread go for more than a page or two. Obviously, I have not been posting about the right stuff! :001_huh:

 

Now..where did I leave that article on mandatory swine flu vaccinations... :willy_nilly:

[Nakia]

I haven't read all 18 pages of replies, but I have to say this absolutely disgusts me.

[Dirtroad]

Also, for the safety of their KIDS... why didn't the camp people reserve the pool for a PRIVATE swim?

 

We never mix our cub scout campers with the local pool times. The rec dept. never mixes the day camp kids with the local pool families. It isn't safe & you can't control access to your kids.

 

I still think this was a breakdown in communication between the CAMP Staff explaining their needs ... .and breakdown in communication with the POOL/CLUB staff explaining their policies.

 

It is a shame the kids were black. This would have been settled immediately & we could be discussing some other issue.... like IRAN or MJ.

[Dirtroad]

I think this is the first time that I've had a thread go for more than a page or two. Obviously, I have not been posting about the right stuff! :001_huh:

 

Now..where did I leave that article on mandatory swine flu vaccinations... :willy_nilly:

 

 

haha....:iagree:

 

or abortion, evolution, relegion, ..... ;)

[Jazzy]

I'm stocked. And profoundly sickened reading some of the comments in this thread.

 

Bill

 

Me, too. But being a newbie, it is nice to get a feel for the board. :scared:

[LUV2EDU]

Me, too. But being a newbie, it is nice to get a feel for the board. :scared:

 

Unfortunately you can't get away from it. You'll always find one on every board. Animosity builds up and eventually explodes when sensitive topics arises.

[lionfamily1999]

Also, for the safety of their KIDS... why didn't the camp people reserve the pool for a PRIVATE swim?

 

We never mix our cub scout campers with the local pool times. The rec dept. never mixes the day camp kids with the local pool families. It isn't safe & you can't control access to your kids.

 

I still think this was a breakdown in communication between the CAMP Staff explaining their needs ... .and breakdown in communication with the POOL/CLUB staff explaining their policies.

 

It is a shame the kids were black. This would have been settled immediately & we could be discussing some other issue.... like IRAN or MJ.

Saying this quietly, so nobody else notices....

 

If I had sent my kids to camp and this happened I would be outraged... at the camp director. I trusted them to care for my children and to put the kids in a situation like this is incredibly negligent. I haven't kept up with this post, too much too fast and just not important enough to me, but I wonder that there was not more research done by the camp. When I worked for parks and rec we always used county resources, because it was too much work to find out all the ins and outs of privately owned places and if there was a trip that fell through due to lack of planning... well, we'd have had our heads on a platter by sun down.

[LUV2EDU]

My first reaction (I haven't read the article.) is that if this private club has any form of government oversight--is it a 501©(3), for example--then it is subject to antidiscriminatory laws. By denying access, private club or not, because of race, it risks losing its tax-favored status.

 

Am I right?

:iagree:

[elizabeth]

definition dis·crim·i·na·tion

Pronunciation: \dis-ˌkri-mə-ˈnā-shən\

Function: noun

Date: 1648

1 a: the act of discriminating b: the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently

2: the quality or power of finely distinguishing

3 a: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b: prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment <racial discrimination>

synonyms see discernment

from Webster

To those posters who allege "reverse discrimination" as automatically , by definition,racism you are confusing two very different ideas. Discriminating can mean discernment that is to differentiate between two things, ideas, characteristics or people. There is a definitional difference between discriminating between two different characteristics and alleging that one is inherently superior to the other ...that is the fundamental difference between discrimination and racism. Simply calling an organization racist because it is designed around the specific concerns, issues and goals of one group rather than another is not intrinsically racist. It could become such if they actively derided , denigrated or asserted deficencies of the groups not specifically catered to but absent that, it is discriminating not discriminatory. A fundamental difference indeed. BTW as a historical note it is tragic that so many here do not know the history of the" pool" it is not just in Jim Crow territory. Here is an article for your knowledge base on the issue

http://www.thereader.com/cover.php?subaction=showfull&id=1233874358&archive=&start_from=&ucat=5& to pretend this history is not there weakens your position that the events under discussion today are not based on race. BTW as an example the NAACP does permit any person to join that shares their concerns and goals. I know as I have been a member for years.

[Testimony]

They do it for a private swim. People cannot just come and go on the property. It is private.

 

I am a black person and when I saw this article, I thought that my sons should see this because they need to see how people perceive them.

 

I do know that there are a group of Neo-Nazis in the Northeastern Part of Philly maybe this is their group.

 

I would not sue a the swim club. I would just know that those people are a group I need to stay away from. Suing people is not going to change the way they think or feel about me. I might damage their pocketbook a little and they may even bring in blacks, but the members will leave. They came there because there were no blacks. It's sad. I am not hurt or upset. I just know that that is the way those people perceive me and I need to stay away.

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[elizabeth]

 

http://www.kshs.org/resource/national_register/nominationsNRDB/Meade_FowlerSwimmingPoolandBathhouseNR.pdf Historic register and history in Kansas regarding nationwide discrimination and pools , separate facilities for African Americans. Ugly but obviously important to remember and learn from.

[elizabeth]

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=cRQxbEaV0KUC&dq=contested+waters&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=xtNXSoKtJIzUMsf0sZ0I&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4 page 3 Northerners actively discriminating based on class and race regarding pools. An entire book on the subject.

[Jazzy]

the organization's goals to what? succeed by being racist?

 

I don't know of any legitimate black organization whose goal is to succeed by being racist. Typically, these groups were established because of the racist policies of other organizations, and their goals are to meet needs that aren't being met by existing organizations.

 

I don't view organizations like the National Society of Black Engineers any differently than I do Concerned Women for America or the National Federation of the Blind. These organizations are open to all and are not designed to persecute others. If they were, that would be wrong, IMO.

 

Nope. But you will not hear ANY of the [expected] posters here denouncing the racist policies of Black organizations. they will excuse that sort of racism.

 

It doesn't. It simply points out whether the "sickened" feeling by some posters is rightly racism or just certain forms of racism.

 

I can't speak for others here, but as a black woman, I would be sickened if a group of white children had been treated poorly by a group of black parents. There is no excuse for it, IMO.

 

If this thread were about such an incident, I would be among the first to say, "that's disgusting!" However, since that isn't the issue at hand, this discussion is OT.

[TracyR]

I'll have to admit. The first thing, having been a daycare worker myself, is why in the world would they be booking swimming for daycare campers at a private country club? There are places such as local pools and the YMCA's that are much better at accomidating large groups of swimmers.

 

If I saw 60 children and didn't have the proper amount of lifeguard coverage I would of turned them away too. We go swimming at our local YMCA and they have about 20 or so daycare kids including us a a few more people that come in for open swim at this time. We have about 4 or 5 lifeguards covering at that time. Plus I tend to watch the kids because its very, very, very difficult to keep track of large amounts of children in a pool like that.

Also if I was in the pool with my children and I saw 60 children coming at us in the pool, without the proper lifeguard coverage . I would get out and have my children get out too. That is extremely unsafe.

Regardless of wether this camp paid or not. I wouldn't care if the kids were green. I would get out of the pool. I know that even with the 30 some people in our Y pool it feels very claustrophobic to me and I begin to feel irritated( just my personality).

 

I know when we stayed at a hotel in Philly they had a MUCH smaller pool. At the time we were attending a conference and there was a wedding taking place at the hotel too. My daughters wanted to go swimming and we went back in the pool area only to find most of the people from the wedding party that other night in the pool. We walked out. First there was no lifeguards and there were too many children in the pool. End of story.

If I paid bucko bucks to swim in a pool and had 60 children in the pool with me I'd be ticked.

With that amount of children the pool should of been reserved. Period. The club should of known that and told the group that they didn't have the proper coverage and just refund them their money.

 

Racisim is wrong. We have a lot of white racism in our area. Which is just as wrong. I don't condone it at all. The club could of handled that better, and it almost seems to me the daycare set it up for controversey from the get go. A private club for daycare campers? Come on.

 

Now had the country club allowed these children to swim in the pool and one of them had drowned. Would we be talking racisim or liability? It was a no win situtation for this place and hopefully they will learn to never book campers(regardless of what color they are) in their private club. Its called a club for a reason.

[Jazzy]

Unfortunately you can't get away from it. You'll always find one on every board. Animosity builds up and eventually explodes when sensitive topics arises.

 

Oh, I know.

 

I am on a few boards where you dare not mention "Santa" lol.

[LUV2EDU]

Oh, I know.

 

I am on a few boards where you dare not mention "Santa" lol.

:lol:

[BillieBoy]

definition dis·crim·i·na·tion

Pronunciation: \dis-ˌkri-mə-ˈnā-shən\

Function: noun

Date: 1648

1 a: the act of discriminating b: the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently

2: the quality or power of finely distinguishing

3 a: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b: prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment <racial discrimination>

synonyms see discernment

from Webster

To those posters who allege "reverse discrimination" as automatically , by definition,racism you are confusing two very different ideas. Discriminating can mean discernment that is to differentiate between two things, ideas, characteristics or people. There is a definitional difference between discriminating between two different characteristics and alleging that one is inherently superior to the other ...that is the fundamental difference between discrimination and racism. Simply calling an organization racist because it is designed around the specific concerns, issues and goals of one group rather than another is not intrinsically racist. It could become such if they actively derided , denigrated or asserted deficencies of the groups not specifically catered to but absent that, it is discriminating not discriminatory. A fundamental difference indeed. BTW as a historical note it is tragic that so many here do not know the history of the" pool" it is not just in Jim Crow territory. Here is an article for your knowledge base on the issue

http://www.thereader.com/cover.php?subaction=showfull&id=1233874358&archive=&start_from=&ucat=5& to pretend this history is not there weakens your position that the events under discussion today are not based on race. BTW as an example the NAACP does permit any person to join that shares their concerns and goals. I know as I have been a member for years.

 

:iagree: Well said! I take back any attorney jokes I may have made in the past. :001_rolleyes: :001_smile:

[Erica in PA]

Our family lived in that area of Montgomery County for 10 years, and it would surprise me to know that this blatant racism occurred in that area. While it may be predominantly white as far as residents go, there are many ethnic and religious minorities in that area, and there was definitely a feeling of diversity there. I would say it's a generally liberal, progressive area where tolerance is strongly stressed. It wouldn't surprise me that a few individuals were racist, as that could happen anywhere, but if it's true that the swim club specifically made the children leave because they were black, that would really, really surprise me.

[Blue Hen]

$400 for a family membership in this area (Lower Moreland/Huntingdon Valley, PA) is CHEAP. I know the pool (we were members there when I was a kid in the 60s), know the area, and $400 would be an inexpensive membership.

 

Carole

[Erica in PA]

I totally agree. Here is an updated article about this: http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/070709_Swim_Club_Accused_Of_Discrimination

 

This was not the only daycare they had agreed to let come. They rescinded all the daycares from coming. This pool costs people $395 to join as a family. You can bet that if we had joined this pool and 60 kids had shown up to use it while we were there (and I don't care what race they are) I would have thrown a fit! Two life guards on duty for 60 kids plus the members there? Lawsuit waiting to happen in my mind. I would have packed up and asked for my $395 back especially knowing that there were more groups coming from other camps during the week (if you only joined for swimming that would be almost $400 for barely 2 1/2 months of use).

 

After doing my own research on this, I don't think this was a race issue. I think the members were ticked off that the quiet family pool they thought they were paying for was going to be overrun all summer with daycare kids. I think the director responded to the memberships outrage about all those extra kids. I used to work in daycare, for school age kids the ratio on field trips was 20 kids to 1 adult, no way would my kids stay at the pool.

Melissa

 

I agree. I think it's very likely that this is what happened. If that is the truth, I hope that it is spread as far and loudly as the original story was. I would hate for those children to think that they were kicked out because of their race, if that were not the case.

[LUV2EDU]

definition dis·crim·i·na·tion

Pronunciation: \dis-ˌkri-mə-ˈnā-shən\

Function: noun

Date: 1648

1 a: the act of discriminating b: the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently

2: the quality or power of finely distinguishing

3 a: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b: prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment <racial discrimination>

synonyms see discernment

from Webster

To those posters who allege "reverse discrimination" as automatically , by definition,racism you are confusing two very different ideas. Discriminating can mean discernment that is to differentiate between two things, ideas, characteristics or people. There is a definitional difference between discriminating between two different characteristics and alleging that one is inherently superior to the other ...that is the fundamental difference between discrimination and racism. Simply calling an organization racist because it is designed around the specific concerns, issues and goals of one group rather than another is not intrinsically racist. It could become such if they actively derided , denigrated or asserted deficencies of the groups not specifically catered to but absent that, it is discriminating not discriminatory. A fundamental difference indeed. BTW as a historical note it is tragic that so many here do not know the history of the" pool" it is not just in Jim Crow territory. Here is an article for your knowledge base on the issue

http://www.thereader.com/cover.php?subaction=showfull&id=1233874358&archive=&start_from=&ucat=5& to pretend this history is not there weakens your position that the events under discussion today are not based on race. BTW as an example the NAACP does permit any person to join that shares their concerns and goals. I know as I have been a member for years.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

It is too bad that some have so much animosity built up, that they will not hear or want to see this. They will still stick to their opinion whether it is right or wrong.

 

However, it does make me wonder what responses we would get if the children were "homeschooled" kids.

[LUV2EDU]

Update:

 

The president of the swim club

 

Quote:

 

"...Much of the attention has focused on an earlier statement by Duesler voicing concern that so many children would "change the complexion" or atmosphere of the club, which he acknowledged was "a terrible choice of words."

 

"It was never my intention to imply anything in terms of racial makeup," he said."

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iLSkiD_HEJq_JPFUxVKAdRWZjnpAD99BS8I80

[Audrey]

 

However, it does make me wonder what responses we would get if the children were "homeschooled" kids.

 

 

If they'd been homeschooled kids, there would undoubtably be a hew and cry of epic proportions; multiple posts calling for boycotts, signing of petitions and calling your congressperson, senator, the companies involved, etc.; blog posts ranting ad nauseum; and (name this quote) ... riots in the streets, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

 

Just ask Subway. ;)

Edited July 11, 2009 by Audrey

[elizabeth]

bump

[Amber in SJ]

hee-hee Audrey!;) Now if we can just avoid crossing the streams and thinking of the stay-puff marshmallow man, we can solve the world's problems.

 

Amber in SJ

[hsmom3tn]

(name this quote) ... riots in the streets, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

 

 

Okay, I can't resist. I didn't want to say anything because I know that this is a serious thread.... but Ghostbusters just happened to be on tonight and I saw part of it while I was channel-hopping.... Is that where I heard this quote?

 

As for the original post, I don't know if it was a result of racism or just bad planning, but I felt badly for the hurt feelings of the children and am glad that they have another place to swim.

[LUV2EDU]

If they'd been homeschooled kids, there would undoubtably be a hew and cry of epic proportions; multiple posts calling for boycotts, signing of petitions and calling your congressperson, senator, the companies involved, etc.; blog posts ranting ad nauseum; and (name this quote) ... riots in the streets, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

 

Just ask Subway. ;)

 

:lol::lol:

 

 

Dr. Peter Venkman from the first Ghost Busters movie.

[Mrs Mungo]

yeah....

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! is kinda like my own reaction to what I stated.

seems fairly self-explanatory to me.

 

Self-explanatory? To PRETEND that confronting and ridding our society of racism BENEFITS *any one* group is pretty much the most offensive way of thinking about it possible as far as I'm concerned. And this is why I can longer discuss it with you rationally. Because that is not a rational thought, never mind a self-explanatory one.

[mycalling]

 

If we are truly bothered by RACISM.... why aren't we also outraged at the Ohio family getting pounded by a large group of teenagers. The Dad was in hospital for about 5 days!!!

What happened?

There is a definitional difference between discriminating between two different characteristics and alleging that one is inherently superior to the other ...that is the fundamental difference between discrimination and racism. Simply calling an organization racist because it is designed around the specific concerns, issues and goals of one group rather than another is not intrinsically racist. It could become such if they actively derided , denigrated or asserted deficencies of the groups not specifically catered to but absent that, it is discriminating not discriminatory. A fundamental difference indeed.

What if it were an organization designed around specifically White concerns? Would you still stand by that not being racist?

[Mrs Mungo]

Dirtroad-Did you happen to watch the documentary on the history of black gangs recently on PBS? It was extremely enlightening and interesting. I highly recommend it. It doesn't excuse violence but it may explain the reasons behind a certain amount of backlash. I haven't seen anybody try to excuse the teens in question like they have the pool manager and his "poorly worded" statement.

[Slartibartfast]

What if it were an organization designed around specifically White concerns? Would you still stand by that not being racist?

 

How would it not be racist?

 

There is no such thing as "white culture"

 

However there are plenty of organizations around being "Irish," "Slovenian," "Croatian," "German," and other nationalities.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Sis