Philadelphia swim club kicks out black kids

[mcconnellboys]

Come now, surely not in the enlightened north?

[Orthodox6]

If it was a safety issue, they could have just said so. I don't think anyone would have had an issue with that. But instead they said this:

 

"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club," John Duesler, President of The Valley Swim Club said in a statement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:iagree: If the swim club excludes all children as part of their existing rules, then this statement might cover their actions. I have checked a number of online news sources, and keep coming up with inclusions that the swim club staff openly stated that minorities are not allowed at the facility. Accordingly, at this stage, I'm still influenced to believe that garden-variety, ugly racism caused these event.

[LUV2EDU]

"When the minority children got in the pool all of the Caucasian children immediately exited the pool," Horace Gibson, parent of a day camp child, wrote in an email. "The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately."

 

I don't think you can really get any more straight out than that..

 

:iagree::iagree: Why is it so hard for people to believe that minorities are still being discriminated against in 2009. I know that some would like to believe that it must have been the amount of children instead of their race that caused such an uproar, but they already knew how many children were coming. Besides, the pool attendant told the children that they "did not allow minorities" in their club.

[Dirtroad]

It is also sad to assume that because a huge group of camp kids (who are black) show up to a pool that is overwhelmed and shocked and say NO is racism... is also just as judgemental.

 

As for a pool attendant...come on, the local attendants here are high schoolers & he/she may have heart issues on race. That may be a huge issue.

 

It may be a issue of race... but it is a HUGE issue of numbers, few adults for supervision, and no parents. I think it is a combination of stupidity.... and NOT A KLAN RALLY.

 

Just like the White House turning away the Kindergarteners at the end of the year. Devastated kids b/c of stupid adults who don't follow instructions and others who aren't willing to make a quick PLAN B. Stupidity.

[Imprimis]

:iagree::iagree: Why is it so hard for people to believe that minorities are still being discriminated against in 2009. I know that some would like to believe that it must have been the amount of children instead of their race that caused such an uproar, but they already knew how many children were coming. Besides, the pool attendant told the children that they "did not allow minorities" in their club.

 

While I realize discrimination does still exist, I do find it hard to believe, and hard to understand.

 

Furthermore, the argument that it's a private club and therefore they can make their own rules, does not make it any less disturbing to me that this incident took place.

[elizabeth]

While I realize discrimination does still exist, I do find it hard to believe, and hard to understand.

 

Furthermore, the argument that it's a private club and therefore they can make their own rules, does not make it any less disturbing to me that this incident took place.

The "private " club moniker does not mean that they cannot be held accountable. My earlier post has a summary of the law in this area.

[Imprimis]

The "private " club moniker does not mean that they cannot be held accountable. My earlier post has a summary of the law in this area.

 

I understand that. I certainly agree they should be held accountable if charges of racism are proved, private club or not.

 

[LUV2EDU]

Regardless of private club rules, if it is proven that the pool attendant told a child that they were not welcome because they were a minority, the parents can choose to sue for emotional damages if their children suffer emotionally from the incident. Not saying they will win, but it is a possibility that they can. Besides, even if they don't win, the media will eat it up--causing their famous or political members/financial supporters to distance themselves from the club.

Edited July 10, 2009 by LUV2EDU

[SonshineLearner]

Even if it's private, you can't say that it's change the??? what was the word they used? Something about the mix of kids....(the color of them)

 

If it's a numbers thing..fine....if it's a color thing...huh?? What year is this??

 

Carrie

Edited July 10, 2009 by NayfiesMama
Yup..the complexion is what they said!!

[Reya]

It is also sad to assume that because a huge group of camp kids (who are black) show up to a pool that is overwhelmed and shocked and say NO is racism... is also just as judgemental.

 

As for a pool attendant...come on, the local attendants here are high schoolers & he/she may have heart issues on race. That may be a huge issue.

 

It may be a issue of race... but it is a HUGE issue of numbers, few adults for supervision, and no parents. I think it is a combination of stupidity.... and NOT A KLAN RALLY.

 

Just like the White House turning away the Kindergarteners at the end of the year. Devastated kids b/c of stupid adults who don't follow instructions and others who aren't willing to make a quick PLAN B. Stupidity.

 

I bet either the kid or the parent lied...er...EXAGGERATED. Having been in a principal's office as an observer no small number of times in confrontations between misinformed or lying parents of similar SES backgrounds (and, yes, all races), I don't put much credence in such an assertion. Notice that NONE of the camp counselors are making this claim.

 

I cannot fathom the thought process going on in letting a day camp have access to a private pool. There's a REASON people pay a fortune for private pool memberships, and there is NO way ANY private pool's membership is going to be anything but seethingly furious to be invaded by 60 (60!!!!!!!!!) day camp kids. They'd be pretty hot at 10.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Reya

[fivetails]

I bet either the kid or the parent lied...er...EXAGGERATED. Having been in a principal's office as an observer no small number of times in confrontations between misinformed or lying parents of similar SES backgrounds (and, yes, all races), I don't put much credence in such an assertion. Notice that NONE of the camp counselors are making this claim.

 

So - because you've seen SOME people tell lies before, the parents and/or kids in this situation must be? How's that work? :001_huh:

 

and what's SES?

[5kidsforME]

Nonsense. They accepted a check from the organization for the children, and I seriously doubt they charged a fee without asking how many children would be using the facility.

 

They also returned the money without an explanation. one would think that if they had a legitimate reason, perhaps that would have been the time to mention it.

 

I must say that I can always count on the WTMers to deliver on a thread like this. I knew without even reading it that I could guess certain members (oddly enough it is always the "states rights" advocates) would be finding whatever reason they could to excuse racism.

 

 

Thats interesting because you only have 8 posts, yet you seem to have a history here.....:confused:

[Peek a Boo]

I must say that I can always count on the WTMers to deliver on a thread like this. I knew without even reading it that I could guess certain members (oddly enough it is always the "states rights" advocates) would be finding whatever reason they could to excuse racism.

 

The only people i see excusing racism are the ones excusing Black organizations that exclude other skin colors.

[Peek a Boo]

Thats interesting because you only have 8 posts, yet you seem to have a history here.....:confused:

 

;) you can always count on A.D. to deliver. :tongue_smilie:

[Reya]

They obviously didn't want to keep it private, or they wouldn't have taken the daycare's money($1900) in the first place and arranged for the kids to come. It was only when they "SAW" the kids that it became a problem. Then they wanted to just give the daycare a refund and send them packing.

 

*sighs* I think you've got it quite turned around.

 

I'd bet cold hard money that the idiots running the pool saw that they didn't have the membership that they did last year and wanted to fill in the gap somehow. So they had the moronic idea of letting day camps use the pool for a fee. (60 kids??? SERIOUSLY?????)

 

When the parents saw a horde of kids with just a few adults (and I've been in areas hit by area day camp hordes THREE TIMES this summer--and I pulled the kids I was with away from there, too, so they didn't get mobbed and/or trampled, so YES, I'd be concerned for the safety of any child under eight) swarm into the pool, they were furious. In most private pools, the members own part of the pool, and they choose to cough up the money with the guarantee that there will be no more than X members, and with the expectation that the crowd will always be proportionate to the number of members.

 

The members understandably complained to the management in terms firm enough to make them take immediate action over this. I'm sure the members want someone fired over this, too--according to news reports, this was the FIRST of SEVERAL day camps scheduled to used the pool. All of these have been canceled.

 

And being in PA, if the problem was racism, the person allowing the camp in would have had more than adequate time to realize the race of the kids involved through talking on the phone with the adults and through just checking out the location of the camp and its price range. Quite honestly, the name Creative Steps sounds VERY likely to be minority in this region. And the camp director is named Aetha, for goodness sakes! There is NO WAY they didn't know exactly the racial make up of the kids scheduled to come in.

 

Note, too, that a number of the members are black themselves. Kind of weird for a racist pool, huh?

 

I happen to drive quite a ways to get to the nearest public pool, having decided that $1150 was not in the budget for a summer pool with a ridiculous number of restrictions, but I can see that kind of idiocy going on here, and I hope the bright spark who thought that selling access to day camps is a bright idea is fired.

 

The reporting of a parent's second- or third-hand declaration, completely uncorroborated by any of the staff actually there, shows exactly what kind of reporting this is. NO other news source covering this gave it nearly this kind of ridiculous spin, and if you actually read what the members said about it, it sounds a lot less ridiculous.

[Reya]

How about checking out the letter from the club:

 

The Valley Club is deeply troubled by the recent allegations of racism, which are completely untrue.

 

We had originally agreed to invite the camps to use our facility, knowing full well that the children from the camps were from multi-ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps. All funds were returned to the camps and we will re-evaluate the issue at a later date to determine whether it can be feasible in the future.

 

 

Our Valley Club deplores discrimination in any form, as is evidenced by our multi-ethnic and diverse membership. Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board.

 

 

 

---

 

 

By "underestimated the capacity of our facilities," read "really, really ticked off people who paid a fortune to swim at our teeny pool."

 

And for those who don't know: On the East Coast, public pool facilities tend to be pretty pathetic. In Texas, we had ten TIMES the number of public pools, per capita, as we do here. And each county seems to give a grossly disproportionate number of pools to the poor areas. So if you're just plain-vanilla middle class, you either get to drive for 20 minutes or more to a public pool your taxes are supporting in a poor area, or you have to shell out $500-1500 a YEAR to swim in the summer.

 

We drive. It's obnoxious, but I can't see my way clear to paying that much when we'll be gone 5 weeks out of the summer.

[LUV2EDU]

Thats interesting because you only have 8 posts, yet you seem to have a history here.....:confused:

 

Just because A.D. only has 8 post, doesn't mean A.D. has not been reading the TWTM thread for years. Some people choose to "lurk" before making the decision to join a board.;)

[Reya]

There would have been a sign with the maximum # of occupants allowed in the pool. If you were a member there, you shouldn't be surprised (to the extent of cancelling your membership) if they fill the pool to capacity, even if you hadn't witnessed it before.

 

Yes, you should.

 

Okay. Each pool around here has a transferable bond--that is, you BUY part of the pool--plus annual membership. That means you are guaranteed that there will be no more than a certain number of members at any time, and the likelihood of a pool being more full that a particular level at any point in time is pretty low.

 

The fire marshal max capacity doesn't determine the number of memberships. That's stated upfront, and unless you're warned that the pool rents access to large groups, then yes, they have every right to be ticked off.

[5kidsforME]

Just because A.D. only has 8 post, doesn't mean A.D. has not been reading the TWTM thread for years. Some people choose to "lurk" before making the decision to join a board.;)

 

Yes, I did look at the previous 8 posts and actually they started posting in early 08'. I will say they have the same (abrupt) posting style in most of the 8 posts. ;)

Edited July 10, 2009 by Momto4kids
changed a word

[Reya]

I can tell you from experience that racism is alive and well. I have two black daughters from adoption, and have faced it several times. There are things that happen, things that are said, that being caucasian you don't even notice until your racism radar is up. It's very sad to me.

 

Certainly. DH has been called racial slurs to his face while I've been standing right next to him. We've been called names together, too, and my grandfather pitched a huge fit over us.

 

But I don't think for a moment that the outcome would have been the least bit different if you'd changed the kids' race or moved the location to my predominantly black area.

[LUV2EDU]

The club's response to the racial allegations:

 

Quote:

 

Philadelphia News

 

 

"The club issued this statement late Thursday, responding to the allegations of racism:

 

The Valley Club is deeply troubled by the recent allegations of racism, which are completely untrue.

We had originally agreed to invite the camps to use our facility, knowing full well that the children from the camps were from multi-ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps.All funds were returned to the camps and we will re-evaluate the issue at a later date to determine whether it can be feasible in the future.

 

Our Valley Club deplores discrimination in any form, as is evidenced by our multi-ethnic and diverse membership. Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board."

 

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Swim-Club-Members-Nothing-to-Do-With-Race.html

*************************************

 

If the club has multi-ethnic and diverse membership, then there is a possibility that the club's only mistake was in assuming that club members wouldn't raise "h".

Edited July 10, 2009 by LUV2EDU

[Peek a Boo]

I do appreciate those who come from the perspective of white privilege desperately trying to find a way to excuse their behavior. It certainly gives insight into their psyche.

You would have a point, but only if we ignored the generations of racism that created a need for such organizations. I sincerely wish we lived in world where there isn't such a need, but posts like some in this thread show we are still a long way from that day.

 

oh! so racism is ok as long as it's the right kind.

 

got it.

 

MLKJ should have called it The Dream Is Dead speech.

 

but who's excusing racism??

[elizabeth]

:lol:

The club's response to the racial allegations:

 

Quote:

 

Philadelphia News

 

 

"The club issued this statement late Thursday, responding to the allegations of racism:

 

The Valley Club is deeply troubled by the recent allegations of racism, which are completely untrue.

We had originally agreed to invite the camps to use our facility, knowing full well that the children from the camps were from multi-ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps.All funds were returned to the camps and we will re-evaluate the issue at a later date to determine whether it can be feasible in the future.

 

Our Valley Club deplores discrimination in any form, as is evidenced by our multi-ethnic and diverse membership. Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board."

 

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Swim-Club-Members-Nothing-to-Do-With-Race.html

*************************************

 

If the club has multi-ethnic and diverse membership, then there is a possibility that the club's only mistake was in assuming that club members wouldn't raise "h".

 

This is why attorneys can charge 400 and up per hour for writing flapdoodle , cover your *ss statements off the top of our heads...they paid someone handsomely with the ability to use words wisely . I hope they charge the board a lot of money for having to try to repair this verbal snafu by the now famous Dr John Duesler. I believe he used the phrase," complexion of the club "nice work. :lol:Like I always tell clients ,keep talking I need to get the house painted this year...and they .keep .talking. Dumb. Dumb.Dumb. :lol:

[LUV2EDU]

:lol:

 

This is why attorneys can charge 400 and up per hour for writing flapdoodle , cover your *ss statements off the top of our heads...they paid someone handsomely with the ability to use words wisely . I hope they charge the board a lot of money for having to try to repair this verbal snafu by the now famous Dr John Duesler. I believe he used the phrase," complexion of the club "nice work. :lol:Like I always tell clients ,keep talking I need to get the house painted this year...and they .keep .talking. Dumb. Dumb.Dumb. :lol:

 

It is funny how they cleaned it up by stating, "... Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board."

 

They're are not admitting or denying that racial comments have been made. They have distance themselves from the members who may have made racial statements. Believe me when I say that money talks and will walk if certain members feel that the club's bad rep. could tarnish their reputation and/or business.

Edited July 10, 2009 by LUV2EDU

[5ray2006]

The only people i see excusing racism are the ones excusing Black organizations that exclude other skin colors.

 

OK, I just have to ask since this is something you keep harping on- What black organizations are you referring to that you feel you or other whites have been discriminated against? Really, I think you're being very facetious. I understand if you're trying to say "we need to get both sides of the story before we villify the owners or management of the private club. However, to use reverse racism to justify this atrocity is a slap in the face to many black organizations that originated because they were discriminated against by whites in their respective careers/fields.

I mean would there have been a need for a Miss Black America pageant if young black women were allowed to participate in the Miss America pageant from the beginning?? :confused:

 

 

A previous quote from Blessedfamily:

 

I watched a man on Cspan who was the president of The National Association of Black Journalists?( I think that was the name, but I'm not sure). He was answering calls, and someone asked pretty much the same question. She asked, very respectfully, why you'd have an association of black journalists, and wouldn't it be racist if she started a national association of white journalists.

 

 

The gentleman said the answer was that there already is an association of white journalists. It's called the National Journalists Association (again not sure about the name). It just left off the word "white" even though their bylaws expressly excluded blacks from joining. So they started the National Black Journalists Assoc for black people who were good journailsts.

 

( I'm not sure about the names of the organizations that were mentioned and I could have them wrong, but it had something to do with journalists.)

 

So, most of these organizations were started because black people were excluded by organizations that call themselves national this or that professional organization. You wouldn't have needed "The Negro League" of baseball if the "American Baseball League" wasn't only for whites.

 

I'm sorry if I sound rude. I happen to be AA and I'm proud of the many black organizations out there for my children to join if and when they so desire to in the future. A place or organization that they will be honored or respected for their achievements/ accomplishments/ or interests, not first judged by the color of their skin, because just in case you don't realize it, racism is real and alive in 2009!!

[LUV2EDU]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peek a Boo

The only people i see excusing racism are the ones excusing Black organizations that exclude other skin colors.

 

*********************************************************************

5ray2006

 

Quote:

 

OK, I just have to ask since this is something you keep harping on- What black organizations are you referring to that you feel you or other whites have been discriminated against? Really, I think you're being very facetious. I understand if you're trying to say "we need to get both sides of the story before we villify the owners or management of the private club. However, to use reverse racism to justify this atrocity is a slap in the face to many black organizations that originated because they were discriminated against by whites in their respective careers/fields.

I mean would there have been a need for a Miss Black America pageant if young black women were allowed to participate in the Miss America pageant from the beginning?? :confused:

 

*******************************************************************

 

 

5ray2006, some people's statements don't deserve a response. However, you took the words right out of my mouth.:grouphug:

Edited July 10, 2009 by LUV2EDU

[Reya]

So - because you've seen SOME people tell lies before, the parents and/or kids in this situation must be? How's that work? :001_huh:

 

and what's SES?

 

 

It's easy.

 

The parent made an EASILY verifiable claim.

 

No verification was found.

 

Either the parent or the child lied.

 

And SES=socioeconomic status. Want to call me an elitist snob? Go ahead.

 

A common confrontational attitude from those who see themselves disempowered toward those they see as authority figures has a certain tenor that is unique to the scenario.

 

In other words: Yeah, rich kids' and middle class kids' parents have conflicts with authority, too, but it takes a different form. They're more likely to seek special favors, while the parents of kids from poorer backgrounds often show up at the school with quite a fabrication.

 

I never could figure out for certain who was lying in most circumstances and whether the parents could possibly believe the ridiculous things they were saying.

[camibami]

For those that think they are exaggerating, or flat out lying, I have had a similar experience, personally.

 

We lived in south Mississippi for 3 years. While there, my oldest daughter played Little League. Her last year playing, the team was majority white, with a white coach. At the last game of the season, a brutal double-header where I cringed watching poor DD play cather in all that gear, the team moms (all white) planned the end of season party.

 

At a club that didn't allow blacks in, at the pool.

 

It's 110 degrees. All these kids worked their butts off, and now, for the party to celebrate their season, 3 of the kids can't attend because of their skin color.

 

I actually didn't understand when they said "X,Y,Z can't come" so I had to ask why, becuase I thought maybe they were busy that day and I thought we should try as much as possible to schedule it for a day most could come. And they told me, about the club. When I expressed my obvious shock that this stuff still happened, I got the ever-popular "Its a private club, they can do what they want. Anyone can start their own club with a pool if they don't like."

 

This was 2005, people. Not 1965. And it was an accepted, "well, that's just how it is" kind of thing, still.

 

You don't have to believe it, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

[SwimmyKids]

My father belongs to several "private clubs". And no, the government can not do anything about who they let in the door. His clubs all discriminate to a certain extent, some more than others. At one of them the wives are only invited very rarely, another the wives are allowed in every Friday night. That is what the word private means- private. I am fine with private clubs.

Melissa

 

This is not quite accurate. Private is not always private.

 

Sometimes private organizations have enough public involvement as to warrant the constitutional oversight applied to public entities. Leasing from a government, for example; if the pool leases land from the local government a court may hold that the club cannot engage in its unconstitutional practices on the land (and perhaps on ANY of its land). I'm not writing that this happened in this case; I'm pointing out that sometimes there are ways to extend the constitutional protection of equality BEYOND public entities. A way to "pierce the veil" (to use a legal term usually applied to business law).

[asta]

We lived in Atlanta. Ask JennyinATL what East Point is like - it's not fluffy, gentrified, or anything else that may come to mind when people think of the "New York of the South".

 

Kiddo wanted to play soccer. The 2 clubs with the best reputations for training were 45 min (distance) south (Fayetteville) and 45 min (in traffic) north (north end of the city of ATL). Both clubs were predominately caucasian.

 

We flipped a coin and went south. Good. God. My child has never been treated worse by a group of children in his life. At least he had a couple of friends at the bad PS we'd just left... It didn't matter that he was the same "color" as the majority of these kids were; no one would even pass him the ball. The coaches divided the practices into 4 groups, and kiddo was put in the last one, with the "minorities". None of "group 4" was given the same training opportunities that 1-3 were (us parents sat on the bleachers and watched this travesty, but our pleas were ignored). Needless to say, us "group 4ers" got a case of the @ss. We'd ALL paid an obscene amount of money for this training.

 

The following season, I found a tiny soccer club in my own 'burb. No one had ever heard of them. Why? Because they had started as an "inner city" club to give the rest of the kids around a chance to play. My kid was the first ever caucasian in the club. ALL of the kids on his team immediately rallied around him. They all became like brothers (and, eventually, sisters, when some girls joined). They did everything together from sleepovers to birthday parties to swim parties - you get the picture.

 

We would go to tournaments and face blatant discrimination. Referees who would call things against our team that weren't even in a book (both hubby and kid are also refs, so we knew). We had coaches, players, and parents yelling racial epithets at our players. And yes, my son was at the receiving end of the nasty as well.

 

And then, one day, our team was due to play the Fayetteville team. The same kids who had shunned my child. At the huddle before the game, no one in our group was talking race. Nope. They were discussing how the other team had "dissed our brother".

 

They whompped that team. Whompped. It was the most upside down score of the year. The other kids were completely perplexed (but... but... that kid is an awful player, we just KNOW it... coach said so).

 

Discrimination sucks no matter who you are, what you look like, or what someone's justification is for their behavior. DS still pines for his "soccer family" (we had to move).

 

 

a

[Renee in NC]

Cami, what were the coaches and other team member's parents THINKING in that situation? Are they INSANE? Why would you *knowingly* do that to a child?!?!?! Or anyone for that matter? I just want you to know that had we been on that team, we would NOT have gone to the pool. I can't imagine!

[ciyates]

For those that think they are exaggerating, or flat out lying, I have had a similar experience, personally.

 

We lived in south Mississippi for 3 years. While there, my oldest daughter played Little League. Her last year playing, the team was majority white, with a white coach. At the last game of the season, a brutal double-header where I cringed watching poor DD play cather in all that gear, the team moms (all white) planned the end of season party.

 

At a club that didn't allow blacks in, at the pool.

 

It's 110 degrees. All these kids worked their butts off, and now, for the party to celebrate their season, 3 of the kids can't attend because of their skin color.

 

I actually didn't understand when they said "X,Y,Z can't come" so I had to ask why, becuase I thought maybe they were busy that day and I thought we should try as much as possible to schedule it for a day most could come. And they told me, about the club. When I expressed my obvious shock that this stuff still happened, I got the ever-popular "Its a private club, they can do what they want. Anyone can start their own club with a pool if they don't like."

 

This was 2005, people. Not 1965. And it was an accepted, "well, that's just how it is" kind of thing, still.

 

You don't have to believe it, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

Where was this? Having grown up in South Mississippi (I didn't leave until I was an adult) I can guarantee there are very few private clubs. Considering the population is pretty equally divided on the coast and we are the home of the "Black Spring Break" I really really find that hard to believe. Personally I have found much more discrimination in the North than I ever saw at home. I personally cannot speak about North MS but as far as the coast is concerned, there are no private clubs before or after Katrina.

[sagira]

Things like this make me sick to my stomach. I hope they sue the pants off of them.

 

:iagree: I'm not normally one to sue, but this warrants something drastic. Ugh. My grandmother, who was half black and married to a white guy, had to endure a lot of cr** like this back in the 20s and 30s. Sorry. I normally don't lose my temper like this, but this pisses me off :mad:

[MOM24WONDERS]

For those that think they are exaggerating, or flat out lying, I have had a similar experience, personally.

 

We lived in south Mississippi for 3 years. While there, my oldest daughter played Little League. Her last year playing, the team was majority white, with a white coach. At the last game of the season, a brutal double-header where I cringed watching poor DD play cather in all that gear, the team moms (all white) planned the end of season party.

 

At a club that didn't allow blacks in, at the pool.

 

It's 110 degrees. All these kids worked their butts off, and now, for the party to celebrate their season, 3 of the kids can't attend because of their skin color.

 

I actually didn't understand when they said "X,Y,Z can't come" so I had to ask why, becuase I thought maybe they were busy that day and I thought we should try as much as possible to schedule it for a day most could come. And they told me, about the club. When I expressed my obvious shock that this stuff still happened, I got the ever-popular "Its a private club, they can do what they want. Anyone can start their own club with a pool if they don't like."

 

This was 2005, people. Not 1965. And it was an accepted, "well, that's just how it is" kind of thing, still.

 

You don't have to believe it, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

OH, it's true. We have been asked many times to join the local country club - we even had someone offer to pay for us to be members, but we've always refused because they don't allow blacks AT ALL. I can't imagine even wanting to be a part of something like that.

 

Racism is still alive and well today - from both sides. EVERY person - regardless of color - needs to come down off their high horse and learn to just get along already. It's way, WAAAY past time for this to be over.

 

Anyway, this kind of thing makes me sick...and angry. :mad:

[Peek a Boo]

I think you're being very facetious. ... However, to use reverse racism to justify this atrocity is a slap in the face to many black organizations that originated because they were discriminated against by whites in their respective careers/fields.[/color]

-------

 

I'm sorry if I sound rude. I happen to be AA and I'm proud of the many black organizations out there for my children to join if and when they so desire to in the future. A place or organization that they will be honored or respected for their achievements/ accomplishments/ or interests, not first judged by the color of their skin, because just in case you don't realize it, racism is real and alive in 2009!!

 

 

first of all, nobody is "justifying" racism. What we are trying to do is establish racism in context. If racism is excluding people because of skin color then reverse racism is Just As Sickening [as Dot so aptly described people who practice racial discrimination]. yet it's ok to be proud of a black organization that excludes whites [i guess this falls under [i]two wrongs make a right[/i]?

And that's being facetious?? really??:001_huh:

 

Which "black" organizations are YOU talking about? Do they allow other skin colors to participate? My daughter would not be eligible to enter the Miss Black America contest, yet black women are allowed to enter the Miss America contest. Is that NOT racial discrimination??

 

as to the statements I bolded, well, if an organization like the one you described limits members to a specific skin color, then they are BY DEFAULT absolutely being judged FIRST based on the color of their skin.

 

I absolutely know racism is alive and well in 2009. I spoke before our city council denouncing minority set asides because they were RACIST. Our country has had quite enough of racism. i refuse to check an "ethnicity box" on gvt forms, but then, i take MLKJ's speech very, very seriously.

[ciyates]

OH, it's true. We have been asked many times to join the local country club - we even had someone offer to pay for us to be members, but we've always refused because they don't allow blacks AT ALL. I can't imagine even wanting to be a part of something like that.

 

Racism is still alive and well today - from both sides. EVERY person - regardless of color - needs to come down off their high horse and learn to just get along already. It's way, WAAAY past time for this to be over.

 

Anyway, this kind of thing makes me sick...and angry. :mad:

 

Again all I am asking is where? To my knowledge there are no private swim clubs on the Coast or South Mississippi. Swimming is not a big sport and considering how poor the area is country clubs are far and few between.

Edited July 10, 2009 by ciyates

[Renee in NC]

allpages.com lists quite a few in Mississippi:

 

http://www.allpages.com/community-services/foundations-clubs-associations-etc/country-clubs/mississippi.html

 

Hopefully the link comes through - if not, try googling "Country Clubs in Mississippi" and you'll find it.

[Jenny in Atl]

We lived in Atlanta. Ask JennyinATL what East Point is like - it's not fluffy, gentrified, or anything else that may come to mind when people think of the "New York of the South".

a

 

Though better than it used to be... Atlanta still has loads of issues when it comes to race, but also class, the area in which you live, your faith (or lack of), etc. It's a very cliquey, and mostly from folks who are not even natives (I honestly wish I could move!) :(

[KingM]

 

The Valley Club is deeply troubled by the recent allegations of racism, which are completely untrue.

 

...

 

Our Valley Club deplores discrimination in any form, as is evidenced by our multi-ethnic and diverse membership. Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board.

 

So it might have just been a very, very clumsy original explanation by someone who didn't realize just how racist that explanation sounded. It does sound, however, a bit like CYA by someone who has been caught out.

 

We drive. It's obnoxious, but I can't see my way clear to paying that much when we'll be gone 5 weeks out of the summer.

 

Up here almost everyone still uses the swimming holes in the river, if you can believe that. Old guy like me, I'd prefer a heated pool for laps to an ice-cold mountain stream with a tire swing, but the kids love it. :tongue_smilie:

[Blue Hen]

OMG, DH just called and asked if the Valley Swim Club was where I swam as a kid. Yes, why? I just read the article --- this is the swim club I went to as a kid, from '60 to '70. I was on their swim team and spent every summer day there. Mom would drop us off at 7am and pick us up around 6pm. I'd like to be able to say that I cannot believe that this would happen at VSC...... although I do believe racism does happen and is alive and well unfortunately.

 

I know what the VSC looked like in the 60's and it could handle 60 extra kids. The pool in those days was 'L' shaped, and the one leg was 25 yards or 25m (I suspect yards) and 6 swim lanes wide or was it 8 lanes wide. It had 2 diving boards, a low and a high one..........geez, such fond memories of swimming there........

 

Carole

[ciyates]

allpages.com lists quite a few in Mississippi:

 

http://www.allpages.com/community-services/foundations-clubs-associations-etc/country-clubs/mississippi.html

 

Hopefully the link comes through - if not, try googling "Country Clubs in Mississippi" and you'll find it.

 

The only one in South Mississippi is the one listed in Pass Christian (my home town by the way). It is a golf course sponsored by the casino. Open to anyone who has the money to pay the fees. Also they have no swimming pool.

 

I was asking specifically for the name of the club the person went to. I worked in tourism and so does my sister (I called her to double check my information). There are no private clubs listed in the area and the only pools that do not belong to the hotels are the 2 on Keesler AFB and the one on the Seabee base.

[NCMom]

Again all I am asking is where? To my knowledge there are no private swim clubs on the Coast or South Mississippi. Swimming is not a big sport and considering how poor the area is country clubs are far and few between.

 

Brookhaven, MS. Is that south enough, lol? And are you sure the country clubs where you are (and the coast has at least 5 that I know of) allow non-white people? Note that not all country clubs have pools. If you see such people there, are they really members or just playing on the semi-private courses? I lived in MS for many years and I never, ever saw an integrated club. It'd be cool of there were some though! Surely around the universities this has happened?

 

We had non integrated private schools in Lincoln County, too. I'll ask around and see if they still are; I know many of the church kindergartens there are not, even today.

 

In our local Country Club, and all of the surrounding clubs, only white protestants could be join.

 

Georgia

[lionfamily1999]

So, does the pool actually have a policy on this? Or was the guy who kicked them out having a bad word putting together day?

 

Read lots of the posts....... Peek, I totally agree with you.

[ciyates]

Brookhaven, MS. Is that south enough, lol? And are you sure the country clubs where you are (and the coast has at least 5 that I know of) allow non-white people? Note that not all country clubs have pools. If you see such people there, are they really members or just playing on the semi-private courses? I lived in MS for many years and I never, ever saw an integrated club. It'd be cool of there were some though! Surely around the universities this has happened?

 

We had non integrated private schools in Lincoln County, too. I'll ask around and see if they still are; I know many of the church kindergartens there are not, even today.

 

In our local Country Club, and all of the surrounding clubs, only white protestants could be join.

 

Georgia

 

Well we consider anything north of I-10 North Mississippi. LOL. I can only speak for the coast and did call Diamondhead Country Club and spoke to someone off record (my cousin) and they do in fact have black members. There is no policy against race. She then went on an extended search for me and contacted other clubs on the coast and found out that as I expected most of their members were not natives of the area (wealthier clients that come in to gamble).

[Mrs Mungo]

Which "black" organizations are YOU talking about? Do they allow other skin colors to participate? My daughter would not be eligible to enter the Miss Black America contest, yet black women are allowed to enter the Miss America contest. Is that NOT racial discrimination??

 

"Allowed" to participate and allowed to succeed are two very different things.

 

The *first* Miss Black America pageant wasn't held until 1969 and it was held as a *protest event* to protest the Miss America pageant which did not allow black women at that time. It's only after this that the pageant starts to lose sponsors because of their whites only rule. The next year black women are allowed to participate. It takes ten years for a black contestant to make it to the top five. It's not until the 1984 pageant that a black woman becomes Miss America and we all know what happened there. As an aside, the first Asian Miss America was crowned in 2000.

 

as to the statements I bolded, well, if an organization like the one you described limits members to a specific skin color, then they are BY DEFAULT absolutely being judged FIRST based on the color of their skin.

 

By and large the Miss America contest IS Miss White America. If not in word, by deed. The vast majority of the contestants in any given year are white even though they only make up around 66% of the population of the US.

 

I absolutely know racism is alive and well in 2009. I spoke before our city council denouncing minority set asides because they were RACIST. Our country has had quite enough of racism. i refuse to check an "ethnicity box" on gvt forms, but then, i take MLKJ's speech very, very seriously.

 

What have you done to combat racism other than to denounce minorities for pooling their own resources and giving minorities a chance to succeed in a culture and environment that is stacked against them? Why not charge the Miss America contest with gender discrimination while you're at it? You are not dialoguing here, you are ranting.

 

Having a dream is great but you have to live in reality while you work toward a perfect world. That speech of which you are so fond includes the line: "Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual." Do you *honestly* believe we have reached the end? When stories like this still appear in the news almost FIFTY years later? When *any* percentage of the people in this thread are willing to shrug their shoulders and say "well, it's a private club, whadda ya gonna do?"

 

I think we have made significant progress against racism but I don't think we are yet at the end of the long road and I'm not sure we will be in another fifty years. Someday I hope you are right and these types of organizations and pageants become superfluous but I don't think that time has yet come.

[Jazzy]

Which "black" organizations are YOU talking about? Do they allow other skin colors to participate? My daughter would not be eligible to enter the Miss Black America contest, yet black women are allowed to enter the Miss America contest. Is that NOT racial discrimination??

 

I don't know much about the Miss Black America contest other than that it was founded at a time when black women were banned from similar pageants, but I do know that MOST black organizations (universities, sororities, fraternities and professional groups) are open to individuals of any race as long as those individuals are supportive of the organization's goals.

 

However, IF whites aren't allowed to enter the Miss Black America contest, does that then make it okay to kick these children out of the pool because of their race?

 

I don't understand why the existence of the Miss Black America pageant (or any other black organization) has any bearing on whether the community club's actions were right or wrong.

 

I do believe racism can go both ways. I just don't understand how that relates in any way to the story that's being discussed here. If this club has done what they've been accused of, then that's racism and it's wrong.

[KingM]

I do believe racism can go both ways. I just don't understand how that relates in any way to the story that's being discussed here. If this club has done what they've been accused of, then that's racism and it's wrong.

 

:iagree:

 

Of course there are black racists out there, but this is irrelevant to the discussion what happened in this particular event. "Yeah, well [bLANK] does it too," is not a very convincing argument.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Multiple issues....

 

• private club (but had given group permission)....

• racist comments (by some at the club, employee and not).....

• large group of outsiders (regardless of race, the sheer number of strangers overwhelmed some)...

• poor communication & planning by club to employees...

• poor communication & planning by campers leaders

• media always inflames (who knows what is most accurate)

• our area pools set up special swim times for large groups (why was this not done - regardless of race)

• sad mess of things!

• Thank God it wasn't done in Alabama!

 

 

I think these are really good points. Can you imagine being at your private pool club which you pay good money to belong and 65 children show up? Maybe the children were very excited about being able to be at the pool. Maybe the pool club members are used to it being quiet?

 

Is this the first and only time the club had openned itself up to campers?

 

In this area, I would be very shocked if it is found that the comments were actually made.

[Gretchen in NJ]

I find it odd that the group claims "The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately," and then in the same interview we read "Campers remain unsure why they're no longer welcome." :confused:

I found that odd too. Very odd indeed, especially when you add the post below. Only the children heard the comments.:confused:

 

I totally agree. Here is an updated article about this: http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/070709_Swim_Club_Accused_Of_Discrimination

 

This was not the only daycare they had agreed to let come. They rescinded all the daycares from coming. This pool costs people $395 to join as a family. You can bet that if we had joined this pool and 60 kids had shown up to use it while we were there (and I don't care what race they are) I would have thrown a fit! Two life guards on duty for 60 kids plus the members there? Lawsuit waiting to happen in my mind. I would have packed up and asked for my $395 back especially knowing that there were more groups coming from other camps during the week (if you only joined for swimming that would be almost $400 for barely 2 1/2 months of use).

 

After doing my own research on this, I don't think this was a race issue. I think the members were ticked off that the quiet family pool they thought they were paying for was going to be overrun all summer with daycare kids. I think the director responded to the memberships outrage about all those extra kids. I used to work in daycare, for school age kids the ratio on field trips was 20 kids to 1 adult, no way would my kids stay at the pool.

Melissa

 

Thank you Melissa. This is what I thought had happened. Members shocked to see 60 campers show up at their private pool.

[5ray2006]

KingM, Jazzy and Mrs.Mungo,

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

You all have summed up pretty much what I was trying to say. Thanks