Is this an indication of H.S graduate grammar knowledge these days?

[Janna]

My niece just graduated from high school last month. I wanted to share with you the thank you card we received from her. This is not to bash her or put her in a bad light, but rather to show you the knowledge base for graduating - at least where grammar is concerned. But then again, perhaps this is how she expresses herself which has nothing to do with what she was taught, but what she chooses to apply. I don't know...what are your thoughts on this?

 

For the envelope addressed to us, in the upper left hand corner she has:

 

mrs (first name and last name)

999 Blah Blah dR.

city, state, zip

 

Now, she is not married, so obviously it should not say "Mrs." But it also was not capitalized nor was there a period. For her address, she did not capitalize the "D" in Dr. but capitalized the "r" (?).

 

OK, for the address to us, she has:

 

MR (husband's name)

999 S H___ F___ dRive

City, in zip

 

There is no period after the S in south, and again, what's up with the lower case d and capitol r in drive? And...the abbreviation for our state (IN) was in lower case letters.

 

Moving on, here is the card:

 

(husband, me (spelled Jenna), daughter (with a lower case I), son (with a lower case I), son spelled Attieus (I assume she wanted this to be a fancy "c", but it's clearly an "e"),

 

Thank you so much for the money & the card. i hope you all are doing well. i wish you could of Been there i miss you all very much. Thank you again

 

Love Always

(name)

 

What's with the lower case I's, the lack of punctuation, saying "of" instead of "have" and the capitol "b" in been?

 

I don't mean to nit-pick, but honestly, it does make me question how she graduated. My 11yo knows better than to do this. Please tell me this is how she expresses herself (poorly) and not a product of her lack of education. Any thoughts?

Edited June 17, 2009 by Janna

[OHGrandma]

Postal standards say no punctuation in addresses except for the '-' in the zip extension. Apparently she learned that much. ;)

[coralloyd]

My 7 yr. old has a better grasp on grammar. This is very sad.

[Stacie]

I don't think she sent you a thank you note. It looks more like you received a thank you text message...on paper. It's quite sad that written communication is falling to this level.

[OH_Homeschooler]

I see "of" instead of "have" all over the place, and it drives me nuts. Not recent high school graduates either. People are just writing like they talk.

[Danestress]

is getting kids not just to know how to properly write something like an address, but to choose to do it the way that they know is right. Somehow it's more "cool" to do it funky because if you are careful to do it right, that's just flat dorky:glare: As my son would say, "That smacks of effort."

 

I bet she knows how to address an envelope.

[BikeBookBread]

I agree with Stacie - it appears to be written in text message style. Wow.

Edited June 17, 2009 by BikeBookBread
grammar problem :(-

[Sharon H in IL]

We're going to be seeing a lot more of this kind of thing. And I'm going to be biting my tongue till it bleeds. :001_huh:

[Ibbygirl]

I don't think she sent you a thank you note. It looks more like you received a thank you text message...on paper.

 

:iagree::iagree: That's exactly what it looked like to me too.

[plain jane]

I don't think she sent you a thank you note. It looks more like you received a thank you text message...on paper. It's quite sad that written communication is falling to this level.

 

:iagree: :iagree:

 

I think it's thoughtful that she took the time to hand write a thank you note and not send you a text message. ;) It's not unheard of to not receive any kind of Thank You note in this day and age.

[Angel]

is getting kids not just to know how to properly write something like an address, but to choose to do it the way that they know is right. Somehow it's more "cool" to do it funky because if you are careful to do it right, that's just flat dorky:glare: As my son would say, "That smacks of effort."

 

I bet she knows how to address an envelope.

 

I think this may be the case. I'm sure she knows how to address and envelope.

 

I might add that writing a bunch of thank you notes for something as big as a graduation can get VERY tedious. Am I the only one who remembers this?! How many variations can you put to "thank you for the money." :tongue_smilie: Maybe your thank you note was the 50th she'd done ... who knows. Just giving her the benefit of the doubt.

 

Of course, I'm a bigger fan of a hug and thanks personally than any written note:D

[Denisemomof4]

My niece just graduated from high school last month. I wanted to share with you the thank you card we received from her. This is not to bash her or put her in a bad light, but rather to show you the knowledge base for graduating - at least where grammar is concerned. But then again, perhaps this is how she expresses herself which has nothing to do with what she was taught, but what she chooses to apply. I don't know...what are your thoughts on this?

 

For the envelope addressed to us, in the upper left hand corner she has:

 

mrs (first name and last name)

999 Blah Blah dR.

city, state, zip

 

Now, she is not married, so obviously it should not say "Mrs." But it also was not capitalized nor was there a period. For her address, she did not capitalize the "D" in Dr. but capitalized the "r" (?).

 

OK, for the address to us, she has:

 

MR (husband's name)

999 S H___ F___ dRive

City, in zip

 

There is no period after the S in south, and again, what's up with the lower case d and capitol r in drive? And...the abbreviation for our state (IN) was in lower case letters.

 

Moving on, here is the card:

 

(husband, me (spelled Jenna), daughter (with a lower case I), son (with a lower case I), son spelled Attieus (I assume she wanted this to be a fancy "c", but it's clearly an "e"),

 

Thank you so much for the money & the card. i hope you all are doing well. i wish you could of Been there i miss you all very much. Thank you again

 

Love Always

(name)

 

What's with the lower case I's, the lack of punctuation, saying "of" instead of "have" and the capitol "b" in been?

 

I don't mean to nit-pick, but honestly, it does make me question how she graduated. My 11yo knows better than to do this. Please tell me this is how she expresses herself (poorly) and not a product of her lack of education. Any thoughts?

 

both my sons are in PS. My oldest started in high school, my youngest half way through 5th grade. I had no other option at the time.

 

Anyway, my son took the PSAT in 10th grade. When his scores were in, his English teacher walked around the school looking for him. She wanted to know where he got his grammar instruction because she knew it wasn't in their school. He told her he got it from his Mom. :p Also, on the SAT his English/written essay both scored in the 99th percentile. He also took MANY honors/AP classes and will graduate with many college credits.

 

My younger son always gets excellent grades in English and is a speed reader. I taught him to read at the age of 3 because he was BEGGING me to. He'll be taking the honors English class next year.

 

Soooooooooooooooo, I feel bad for all the kids who DON'T have the opportunity to learn grammar. All those tearful years of DIAGRAMMING paid off. :tongue_smilie: It sure was torture at the time but I'm SO glad we stuck with it. ( I never did it as a kid.)

[KirstenH]

I have a high school niece who is a straight A student who writes like this. It's appalling and I can't figure out why she does it. I've asked her, and she says "I just can't control my hands." What????? :001_huh:

[VanessaS]

I receive letters and emails from friends and relatives that look like text messages. Sometimes I can barely decipher what they are trying to express.

 

I had to keep reading the "could of" until I figured it out. Oh: slang for "could've"!

[joannqn]

The first thing I thought of is laziness and simply handwriting style, especially in the addressing the envelope and the capital letters in the middle of words.

 

I would want to see some sort of formal writing assignment before judging grammar ability, rather than judging based off of a hastily written thank you note. Similarly, I don't judge grammar based off of email or internet. I know many, like myself, tend to write much more informally for certain contexts.

[teamturner]

I think it is texting style writing. She may very well know better but it has become cool to write this way. I see a lot of this on Facebook from the younger crowd.

 

I read a recent blog on that Teacher, Revised blog about grammar and how it is being lost in education. It's very sad.

 

It makes me want to make sure my dc never have a cell phone or at least a cell phone w/texting abilities. If those even exist when my dc are at the age for cell phones. :confused:

[The Governess]

I agree it looks like texting. I'm not sure why, but it's like a fashion statement or something to throw in randomly capitalized letters. I don't get it at all!!!

 

(feeling really old and out of touch now. :001_huh:)

[Dirtroad]

I don't think she sent you a thank you note. It looks more like you received a thank you text message...on paper. It's quite sad that written communication is falling to this level.

 

 

:iagree: She has spent too much time texting & seems to have forgotten how to write. Businesses are getting resumes with texting styles, colleges are getting applications & letters with similar problems.... it is pitiful.

[cathmom]

OTOH, she may have dysgraphia. My older dd does, and until she began receiving tutoring last fall, randomly threw in capital letters all over the place.

 

Bravo to your niece for sending a handwritten thank you note so promptly!!!

[laughing lioness]

This is how my 19 yo neice writes. Never a capital. Bad grammar. She was in the gifted program with a good scholarship to a state school.

[KingM]

Her grammar may be poor, but the sentiments in the letter were gracious. I'm suspect she would feel humiliated if she knew that her English skills were being dissected on a public forum.

[battlemaiden]

Her grammar may be poor, but the sentiments in the letter were gracious. I'm suspect she would feel humiliated if she knew that her English skills were being dissected on a public forum.

 

easy tiger...er...lion.

 

The topic is writing styles. The original poster explained her intent. I haven't seen a post that disparages the niece personally. We are a board generally devoted to improving the education of our children. I find this a timely discussion.

 

Jo

[KingM]

easy tiger...er...lion.

 

The topic is writing styles. The original poster explained her intent. I haven't seen a post that disparages the niece personally. We are a board generally devoted to improving the education of our children. I find this a timely discussion.

 

Jo

 

Okay, how about this (and hopefully expressed without introducing my own grammar errors this time)? I would argue that manners are more lacking in our society than grammar skills. This girl showed good manners and should be commended for that.

 

As for the execution of the thank you note, I'm not surprised. A high school diploma means very little these days. Even a college degree is devalued by the sheer number of people obtaining them. This is why post-graduate work has become the new metric for measuring one's education. It won't be long until a doctorate is de rigueur.

[Ibbygirl]

As my son would say, "That smacks of effort."

 

 

:lol::lol::lol: Oh I love that!! That sounds like something my daughter would say. hehehe

[Osmosis Mom]

I just don't think this is unexpected with all the texting and fb'ing going on, honestly. Plus, if you don't correct your child's spoken grammar from when they are young and they don't read much, well, then this is the result. I do think the sentiments behind the card mean a lot and she sounds like a nice young lady.

[RegGuheert]

 

This girl showed good manners and should be commended for that.

I disagree. In my opinion, it is very poor manners to misspell a person's name in any written communication. Sending a thank you note which is so poorly crafted also smacks of poor manners in my book. I'm willing to bet that OP put much more care and grace into the card that she wrote for her niece.

[PineFarmMom]

That is sad! I think the most annoying part, to me, is that it is a thank you card!! I remember writing mine for graduation, with my poor education and everything, and taking much care to do it all correctly. I did the same with wedding invitations, taking the time to find the proper way to address envelopes with proper titles. I agree with those who say it looks like a written text message.

 

Not to steal the thread, but I have an adult friend, nearly 40, whose e-mails are so painful I just have to read sections of them and come back later. I wind up feeling frustrated, humiliated for her, and angry with her at her lack of basic grammar, spelling, her inability to punctuate and capitalize correctly, and the overall running together of thoughts. It is typically written in all caps with little to no punctuation and no paragraphing. It is painful to my eyes, really! Dh refuses to read them. There was a point where she was the one to officially send out e-mail notifications for a group and I wondered WHY they let her!! I do feel bad for her, but it also makes me angry that we have so many opportunities now and people just don't take them.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Texas T

[Snickerdoodle]

I disagree. In my opinion, it is very poor manners to misspell a person's name in any written communication. Sending a thank you note which is so poorly crafted also smacks of poor manners in my book. I'm willing to bet that OP put much more care and grace into the card that she wrote for her niece.

 

I agree with this. It seems almost a mockery of good manners. Just my opinion though.

[unsinkable]

I disagree. In my opinion, it is very poor manners to misspell a person's name in any written communication. Sending a thank you note which is so poorly crafted also smacks of poor manners in my book. I'm willing to bet that OP put much more care and grace into the card that she wrote for her niece.

 

How can you fault someone for poor manners about grammar mistakes if she doesn't know any better?

 

My first thought is that someone should proofread for her.

[MyThreeSons]

I see "of" instead of "have" all over the place, and it drives me nuts. Not recent high school graduates either. People are just writing like they talk.

 

I see it on homeschool boards frequently!

[MyThreeSons]

I had to keep reading the "could of" until I figured it out. Oh: slang for "could've"!

 

I don't think it's slang -- I think most people don't understand that it's a contraction for "could have". When it's said aloud, it does sound a lot like "could of".

[Snickerdoodle]

How can you fault someone for poor manners about grammar mistakes if she doesn't know any better?

 

 

How could she not know better and still graduate from High School? This is what I'm not understanding.

[Snickerdoodle]

I had to run to the kitchen quickly.

 

I think it's almost criminal to delude these young adults into thinking that they have exited their compulsory tenure with an education.

 

The fact that she is an adult and does not know better is the problem.

 

Language is a powerful thing. If you cannot use language to communicate well, that is a sign that you cannot use language to think and process information well. That is a dangerous thing in my opinion.

 

All my own humble opinion, yadda yadda ;)

[katemary63]

I think it's awful and embarrassing.

[RegGuheert]

How can you fault someone for poor manners about grammar mistakes if she doesn't know any better?

1) Because she signed her name to it. As such, she should take personal responsibility for the content of it.

2) Because this was a "Thank You" note for a gift bestowed for graduation from HIGH SCHOOL. If I were OP, I might be wondering at this point if congratulations were really appropriate. Maybe offering condolences makes more sense? :confused:

3) Because misspelling of a relative's name that was almost certainly spelled correctly in the gift card should not happen. Clearly NO care was taken to get this spelling correct. This was not grammar error.

4) Because the lack of care shown in the writing of this "Thank You" note largely nullifies the function of the note. "If a job is worth doing, it is worth doing well."

My first thought is that someone should proofread for her.

Why? Did she ask for assistance? I seriously doubt it. She apparently does not care how OP might receive this message, which, to me, is the sad part of the entire situation.

[katemary63]

I disagree. In my opinion, it is very poor manners to misspell a person's name in any written communication. Sending a thank you note which is so poorly crafted also smacks of poor manners in my book. I'm willing to bet that OP put much more care and grace into the card that she wrote for her niece.

 

:iagree:

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

 

mrs (first name and last name)

999 Blah Blah dR.

city, state, zip

 

Now, she is not married, so obviously it should not say "Mrs."

 

This would be standard where I live. No one has to indicate marital status. It's really besides the point. A boy graduating from high school would be adressed as "Mr." which does not indicate whether he's married or not. (oh and I have no clue if it takes a period or not, because I always get mixed up between my languages. Some do, some don't, I'm being driven crazy!)

[unsinkable]

1) Because she signed her name to it. As such, she should take personal responsibility for the content of it.

2) Because this was a "Thank You" note for a gift bestowed for graduation from HIGH SCHOOL. If I were OP, I might be wondering at this point if congratulations were really appropriate. Maybe offering condolences makes more sense? :confused:

3) Because misspelling of a relative's name that was almost certainly spelled correctly in the gift card should not happen. Clearly NO care was taken to get this spelling correct. This was not grammar error.

4) Because the lack of care shown in the writing of this "Thank You" note largely nullifies the function of the note. "If a job is worth doing, it is worth doing well."

Why? Did she ask for assistance? I seriously doubt it. She apparently does not care how OP might receive this message, which, to me, is the sad part of the entire situation.

 

I know there were spelling errors as well.

 

I totally disagree with your conclusions. I could not conclude that someone "didn't care" about the thank you note b/c there were grammar errors (as well as spelling errors). That is a huge leap.

[pooh bear]

 

mrs (first name and last name)

999 Blah Blah dR.

city, state, zip

 

 

 

 

In British English we don't use a full stop (period to you Americans) after Mrs, it is capitalised, but no full stop.

[Perry]

I know there were spelling errors as well.

 

I totally disagree with your conclusions. I could not conclude that someone "didn't care" about the thank you note b/c there were grammar errors (as well as spelling errors). That is a huge leap.

 

:iagree:

 

As a mother of two dyslexic children, this thread is making me ill.

[VanessaS]

Similarly, I don't judge grammar based off of email or internet. I know many, like myself, tend to write much more informally for certain contexts.

Well, there's informal and then there's:

 

I LUV U! U R GRT! CU TMRW!

 

In an email. Sorry, but there are limits to informality, even in emails. And the all-uppercase-thing makes me feel like I'm being SCREAMED AT. Yes, I get emails like this from my friends and relatives. I write back properly but they never seem to take the hint.

 

And I've discovered that a lot of them (despite high school diplomas) cannot write properly. And they are functionally illiterate. Even those who can decipher the words are incapable of gleaning the content.

 

And logical thinking is a no-show, even among some college-educated.

 

That's a major reason why I'm homeschooling. I can hardly do worse... :tongue_smilie:

[VanessaS]

Okay, how about this (and hopefully expressed without introducing my own grammar errors this time)? I would argue that manners are more lacking in our society than grammar skills. This girl showed good manners and should be commended for that... It won't be long until a doctorate is de rigueur.

 

The first statement is true, albeit very sad. The fact that our initial reaction is: "Wow! She sent a thank-you note!" shows how bad it has gotten.

 

At any rate, isn't there a connection between language grammar and manners? Isn't manners a sort of grammar of human interaction?

 

And the second is already true in some fields (natural sciences, for instance). At the engineering firm I used to work at they didn't accept applications from biologists unless they had a doctorate. There were just too many of them.

[Staci in MO]

My husband is brilliant, but a dyslexic who wasn't diagnosed until he was in college. It's reactions like this that make him very reluctant to write anything, ever.

[Staci in MO]

But living with him the last 15 years has opened my eyes to what it must be like to be unable to see things that come easily to other people.

[VanessaS]

I disagree. In my opinion, it is very poor manners to misspell a person's name in any written communication. Sending a thank you note which is so poorly crafted also smacks of poor manners in my book. I'm willing to bet that OP put much more care and grace into the card that she wrote for her niece.

:iagree:

That's exactly what I thought. Her mom probably made her write the card; she didn't do it of her own volition. In that case she would have made more of an effort. The quality smacks of carelessness.

And, in the age of the computer, there's no excuse for poor grammar, even in written communication. If you know that your grammar isn't very good you can always write it in Word first, print it out, and copy it onto the card. That's what I do for my German Christmas cards, because my German grammar is sadly lacking.

 

My first thought when I receive communications of this quality is: they aren't even aware of how bad it is. That's what's really sad about it. :(

[VanessaS]

My husband is brilliant, but a dyslexic who wasn't diagnosed until he was in college. It's reactions like this that make him very reluctant to write anything, ever.

Sorry, but having poor grammar and being dyslexic are two completely different things.

[VanessaS]

I don't think it's slang -- I think most people don't understand that it's a contraction for "could have". When it's said aloud, it does sound a lot like "could of".

:001_huh: You've got to be kidding me. That's scary. I figured they're just trying to be "cool".

 

For all of the people saying, "maybe she's dyslexic," I just have to say: my sister is dyslexic and mentally disabled and she's NEVER sent out a formal card or invitation of such quality. She's very careful to do it nicely and, if anything, takes MORE care than others to do it well. Being dyslexic is not an excuse for being sloppy.

[RegGuheert]

I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that OP would have published this note if her niece were dyslexic.

 

Yes, I understand the unfortunate implications for those who are dyslexic, but the fact remains that judgments are made every day about people based on their written words. In many cases, that is ALL THERE IS. Consider a resume or the posts from each of us here. In this case, OP knows the author of the note, but I do not. Based solely on the content of the note and the context which implies to me this person is not dyslexic, my opinion is unchanged.

[unsinkable]

Sorry, but having poor grammar and being dyslexic are two completely different things.

 

Have you lived with Staci's dh for 15 years?

 

I would think she knows how her dh's issue appears. I don't think I would argue with someone about how a family member's diagnosis appears to the outside world.

 

It reminds of people who had never heard of status epileticus who told me that my dd was misdiagnosed b/c seizures only last a minute or two.

[Tap]

I think this is less a result of texting and more a result of 'spell and grammar check' on our computers.

 

In traditional high school classes everything is typed. The computer checks for spelling, grammar, punctuation, capitalization, slang and all the basic offenses in this card.

 

The consistent capital R, B and lowercase I, is penmanship style and not necessarily grammar. If they were inconsistent, and she was just capitalizing the wrong words, I would think of it as a grammar mistake. If it is consistently the same letters...I would call that bad penmanship.

 

The misspelled names may or may not be her fault. She may have had a list from a family member. There is little consistency with the spelling of names anymore, so I wouldn't worry if someone spelled something wrong. Especially like you said, you think she tried to write the letter 'c' but blundered it.

 

 

Sad that she wasn't educated better, but honestly, isn't this why we choose to teach our own kids? I try desperately to not try to judge someone else's quality of education, or lack of effort, based on a writing sample. It didn't make the message any less heartfelt. It doesn't change that she sent it and took the time to hand write it. She obviously felt that you were a loving enough aunt to be a little more casual with you.

 

 

PS. The responses people have had to this thread are also why I won't write a hand written note anymore. I am not a good speller and have bad grammar. I use spellcheck and grammar check on everything I type. Even to the point of cutting/pasting into another program to check it, if the program I am using doesn't have it. I can't imagine taking the time and effort to write someone a note, and then have them be so critical of my poor writing that they are not reading the true message. Yes, you would have hoped she known better, but she doesn't, and your not responsible, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Tap, tap, tap