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I didn't want to hijack the thread on visiting out-of-town family, but I have to ask this question.....

 

I, too, am always having to visit out of town family and those visits are rarely reciprocated. I'm the only one who moved away from the hometown. It's not that I mind going to visit, I'm just tired of being the ONLY one doing the traveling. It's exhausting, not to mention expensive.

 

So let's say a person (in this case, me!) is tired of always being the one who has to drag herself and her children on long car trips to visit out of town family. Let's say she's had enough, and finally finds the backbone to say, "I am not going down there, but you (parents, sisters, brothers, etc...) are more than welcome to our home." And she refuses to succomb to the guilt-ridden pleas from said relatives that little Johnny will be so sad if his cousins aren't there for his birthday/graduation/etc....

 

How long does a long-distance sister hold out? What if no one EVER visits? Do the kids never see the cousins again? The grandparents aren't getting any younger. How long until she folds and loads the kids in the car, again.

 

In my case, I've tried to put my foot down, but something always makes me go back. They have some valid reasons....kids in school, moms work, my schedule (as a homeschooler) is so much more flexible. My only excuse is that I'm tired of traveling, visiting, and feeling like I'm being pushed around. Should I just suck it up and keep visiting and think of it as my cross to carry? I'm feeling like they are being selfish and eventually my resentment will boil over and cause a big family stir (which already happened once.)

 

WWYD?

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In my case, never.

 

My mom will visit very sporadically, so I try my best to visit her as well.

 

But my sister has never made one attempt to visit us. Although that probably has more to do with family then the distance because she will drive to visit our brother who lives the exact distance I do, just in the opposite direction.

 

So I guess it just depends on which family members your talking about. I've had one brother visit a few times on his way to somewhere else. But the other brother will never make an effort, nor has my dad.

 

I don't feel I can refuse to go forever because it really might result in my kids never seeing their cousins. So I just try to balance as best I can. I hate the traveling and the visits, but my kids do enjoy them.

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We stopped traveling for visits. Every once in a blue moon I drive out to see my gramma, but for the rest of the extended family... unless I have some other reason for being in your state, no visits. We're always happy to find people places to stay here (outside of our house), but we've just stopped going.

 

Incredibly, my brother and sister discovered the road runs both ways and have managed to come see us here a few times. We don't live too far apart, but the visits have become much more balanced (whose house are we meeting at this month?).

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We moved 2000 miles about 5 years ago, we've been back once. My dh has been back twice without us. My MIL comes out at least once a year. My dh's sister is finally making the trip for a few days. I don't think my BIL's family ever will. I decided to stop fretting about it. There are a lot of ways to keep in touch these days without traveling. My kids and dh communicate with his family online, via games on the Wii, phone calls, we get pictures so the kids know who they are. My family has a webpage at MyFamily.com, it is an excellent way to keep in touch.

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IMHO I would just make sure everyone has an open invitation to see you. Then when you do feel like visiting them just do it. Just don't let pride keep you from driving to see them, even if they never made it to see you. But also, don't feel like your forced to go, wait until it's a good time for you guys and you are doing it for good reasons...like wanting your kids to visit their grandparents, cousins, etc.

 

Alison

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Great question! I am in the same boat and I go back and forth on what to do. So far we make a trip once a year to visit family but that becomes our big vacation trip for the summer and we never get to go anywhere else. We might try evey other year and see how that goes. Both sets of parents have made visits but no siblings ever have.

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In my opinion, you have to make the effort to see your parents. That is part of honoring them. You have to make the effort to visit your in-laws for the same reason, even if it's inconvenient and expensive and if you don't really like them. To me if you marry a man you are making a commitment to his parents. Obviously in cases of extreme abuse, things might be different.

 

In my experience, a lot of MILs don't feel comfortable visiting the DILs. They feel like out of sorts because it's "her" house even though their son lives there, and sometimes they just don't feel all that welcome. So over time, I think a lot of women sort of start waiting for their sons and DILs to come to them because they don't feel like "visit us" really means it.

 

Siblings are different. You don't owe them the same level of devotion. If you want to see them, great. If your parents want you to see each other, sometimes it works out if everyone is visiting Mom at the same time. But I don't think you should feel guilty if it doesn't work out to see YOUR siblings. On the other hand, if DH wants your family to get together with HIS siblings, I think you have to make the effort he wants to make.

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I finally looked at it from the point of, if I weren't related to these people, would I choose to be friends with them? No, if a friendship were that one sided, I wouldn't continue it. I'm cordial, but not going out of my way any more.

 

I feel like this a lot. It does feel very one-sided. But, OTOH, they're family and I don't know if I can cut them off. We usually have a great time once we get there, but it's the getting there that lately has been souring the visit. It's the building-up resentment. I don't look forward to visiting again, because everytime it feels like we were just there.

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I didn't want to hijack the thread on visiting out-of-town family, but I have to ask this question.....

 

I, too, am always having to visit out of town family and those visits are rarely reciprocated. I'm the only one who moved away from the hometown. It's not that I mind going to visit, I'm just tired of being the ONLY one doing the traveling. It's exhausting, not to mention expensive.

 

So let's say a person (in this case, me!) is tired of always being the one who has to drag herself and her children on long car trips to visit out of town family. Let's say she's had enough, and finally finds the backbone to say, "I am not going down there, but you (parents, sisters, brothers, etc...) are more than welcome to our home." And she refuses to succomb to the guilt-ridden pleas from said relatives that little Johnny will be so sad if his cousins aren't there for his birthday/graduation/etc....

 

How long does a long-distance sister hold out? What if no one EVER visits? Do the kids never see the cousins again? The grandparents aren't getting any younger. How long until she folds and loads the kids in the car, again.

 

In my case, I've tried to put my foot down, but something always makes me go back. They have some valid reasons....kids in school, moms work, my schedule (as a homeschooler) is so much more flexible. My only excuse is that I'm tired of traveling, visiting, and feeling like I'm being pushed around. Should I just suck it up and keep visiting and think of it as my cross to carry? I'm feeling like they are being selfish and eventually my resentment will boil over and cause a big family stir (which already happened once.)

 

WWYD?

 

 

We live 500 miles from our closest family. Everyone lives within 2 hours of our folks. We used to spend every vacation going "home". No more. We visit our folks (they live in the same town) twice a year. Once in the summer and at Thanksgiving. We always make sure that everyone (siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins) knows that we are coming. If they want to see us they visit while we are there. No more going to everyone's house and traveling everyday we are gone. That is exhausting!

 

Our parents come to visit about once a year and dh's sister and bil about once a year. Otherwise, we have friends who visit us more than the rest of our family. My brother has never been to see us. My ds and bil have been out a couple of times but they had other commitments in a nearby city so we were just a free hotel and babysitting service for her kids.

 

BTW, we have lived this far away for 10 years. It will never get any better. I would suggest not going back for everything. We never go back for cousins birthdays, haven't hit any graduations yet. We have the oldest kids, so I guess if they come out for my dc's graduations then we will go back for their kiddos. We have even missed a couple of funerals (grandfather, uncle). Good Luck, dealing with family can be tough!

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Honestly? I wouldn't let this bother me. If nobody comes to visit your family, even though you've invited them and asked them to, then I see that you have only two options.

 

1. Do all the travelling.

 

2. Cut the face to face visits out.

 

#1 will be hard but will keep your kids connected to the rest of the family. no, it's not fair, but it appears that the travelling will have to be your responsibility. It will take a conscious effort on your part not to allow the root if bitterness grow. I understand this well as I had this with my own parents. They'd travel FURTHER to go see my sister but rarely came to see me. Of course I allowed them to do as they pleased but my sister is a VERY difficult and controlling person and my parents often times just did as she asked.

 

#2 will be hard for you, hard for your kids, and unfair to your kids. Well, hard if your kids really enjoy their time with your family. If they don't, it appears this is a non issue.

 

Have you asked why they don't ever travel to see you? I wonder if it's because you moved so they expect you to do the travelling?

 

I know this isn't right or fair but somehow you're going to have to make peace with it. I know it's hard.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

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In my opinion, you have to make the effort to see your parents. That is part of honoring them. You have to make the effort to visit your in-laws for the same reason, even if it's inconvenient and expensive and if you don't really like them. To me if you marry a man you are making a commitment to his parents. Obviously in cases of extreme abuse, things might be different.

 

In my experience, a lot of MILs don't feel comfortable visiting the DILs. They feel like out of sorts because it's "her" house even though their son lives there, and sometimes they just don't feel all that welcome. So over time, I think a lot of women sort of start waiting for their sons and DILs to come to them because they don't feel like "visit us" really means it.

 

Siblings are different. You don't owe them the same level of devotion. If you want to see them, great. If your parents want you to see each other, sometimes it works out if everyone is visiting Mom at the same time. But I don't think you should feel guilty if it doesn't work out to see YOUR siblings. On the other hand, if DH wants your family to get together with HIS siblings, I think you have to make the effort he wants to make.

 

 

This makes a lot of sense, and I haven't thought of it that way. My problems is mostly with my family. They all live in one town, I'm 3 hours away. When we go down to visit, we'll usually stay at mom & dad's, and my sisters will come visit us over there or we'll meet somewhere else (the beach, the park, etc...) So we pretty much see everyone at one place. I guess I should be grateful for that! But there are 17 people in the family (my parents, my sisters & bil's, and nieces & nephews) so between birthdays & holidays we're guilted into being there once or twice a month.

 

This is the first time we've been so close to home, and (although I've always been the one who's had to travel) it's really obvious--to me, at least--how uneven the traveling has been. When we lived further away, it irritated me, but since we didn't go home that often anyway it wasn't that big a deal.

 

With the in-laws, none of the siblings live in the same hometown, so once a year for a week we all get a beach house together and see everyone. This actually works out really well, as far as "fair" traveling time. And, if for some reason a family can't make it, there's not much guilt incurred from MIL. She's sorry they aren't there, but she doesn't make them feel bad about it. It's one of her better qualities. ;)

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Honestly? I wouldn't let this bother me. If nobody comes to visit your family, even though you've invited them and asked them to, then I see that you have only two options.

 

1. Do all the travelling.

 

2. Cut the face to face visits out.

 

#1 will be hard but will keep your kids connected to the rest of the family. no, it's not fair, but it appears that the travelling will have to be your responsibility. It will take a conscious effort on your part not to allow the root if bitterness grow. I understand this well as I had this with my own parents. They'd travel FURTHER to go see my sister but rarely came to see me. Of course I allowed them to do as they pleased but my sister is a VERY difficult and controlling person and my parents often times just did as she asked.

 

#2 will be hard for you, hard for your kids, and unfair to your kids. Well, hard if your kids really enjoy their time with your family. If they don't, it appears this is a non issue.

 

Have you asked why they don't ever travel to see you? I wonder if it's because you moved so they expect you to do the travelling?

 

I know this isn't right or fair but somehow you're going to have to make peace with it. I know it's hard.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm sure there are some sibling issues bubbling under the surface in our family as well. For example, I asked mom & dad if they could come to our daughter's theater camp performance in a few weeks. My other kids have their swimming lessons graduations that same morning, so they'd be able to attend several "events" in one visit. (They've rarely made any kid events since we've never lived nearby.) Mom said she'd already agreed to babysit for my sister's kids a few hours that night, so they probably can't make it. This is annoying because mom babysits her kids all the time....and hasn't sis ever heard of hiring a babysitter? (deep breaths....ok, I'm calm again.) This kind of thing has been going on forever, so I'm pretty used to it. But, it's a lot harder to have to explain to the kids why they won't be able to come.

 

For my kids sake, I know I won't be able to cut out all the visits. I feel it's important for them to see and know their family. We have lived away from home since we've been married, but the inequality has really shown it's face since now we only live 3 hours away (vs. 9 or 18!) and it's still like pulling teeth to get them to visit.

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and I will admit, the travel is pretty one sided. Both of my sisters live a couple of hours away and both of them come to see my parents every couple of months, and I see them when they come. I almost never drive to see them, but they are here often enough I don't feel like I really have to and I tend to think that if I go see them, it causes them to have to clean their houses and make up bed and move kids to accommodate me so I just assumed that this arrangement suits them ...... I wonder? Maybe I should go more. I do feel like what they really want is to take my kids, lol. It's really not all about me:)

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Unfortunately, it's the ones who move away who must make the bigger effort to stay in touch with family. Partially it's just logistics. It's easier to move one family than to move several. It's also cheaper and easier to house 1 family than multiple families. Finally, when the bulk of the family is in one area, it's a lot easier to see more family members by having just the one family return. I have one other sister who moved away from our home state. We've both been to each other's home only once in over 24 years. Yet we see each other at least once a year by coordinating our visits home. Plus we can see our other sister's family, aunts, uncles and cousins at the same time by meeting at home.

 

I've also found out that many relatives don't take "blanket" invitations seriously. These are the polite relatives who don't want to impose. Or my in-laws who refuse to spend more than 3 days at our home. Because it takes a solid day of flying to get here, with one day to recover from jet lag, they don't come often. I never could convince them to stay longer.

 

Even if I moved back home, I would have to spend more time to re-establish the close ties I grew up with. My relatives have spent 23 years developing a daily, weekly and monthly routine that don't include my nuclear family. Though I would be welcomed back, I would have to make a concentrated effort to work back into their routines. And as our young children mature and develop their own active teen lives and even their own families, it becomes harder and harder to schedule time for more distant family.

 

So like it or not, it's the ones who move away that have to work harder. I've seen it with my df's sister, my sister, my cousins, my in-laws, and me. We all have had relatives visit, but its the one's who moved away that do most of the work.

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Even if I moved back home, I would have to spend more time to re-establish the close ties I grew up with. My relatives have spent 23 years developing a daily, weekly and monthly routine that don't include my nuclear family. Though I would be welcomed back, I would have to make a concentrated effort to work back into their routines.

 

This is a great point, Kathy!

 

My parents moved 300 miles away when they got married. We always lived a minimum of that far away. Traveling was a given for us, although it certainly was more frequent when we were 300 than 3,000 miles away!

 

When I was ready for college, I chose a college near my parents' hometowns, as I wanted to know what it was like to be near family. But they weren't used to me being there. Once or twice I received a phonecall for an offer somewhere, but it wasn't until my sr year, when I had a car, that I was able to see family on a more regular basis. In reality, I saw them when my parents were in town.

 

I got married, and stayed in the area. I made the effort to see my grandparents, but aunts/uncles continued to be only when my parents were in town.

 

We now live 120 miles away, and I don't really expect most of them to come to see our house. I would love them to, and we have invited them all for a 4th of July picnic, when my brothers will also be visiting. So it would make a nice day trip for my extended families to see my whole family of origin in one place. We'll see how it goes!

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and I will admit, the travel is pretty one sided. Both of my sisters live a couple of hours away and both of them come to see my parents every couple of months, and I see them when they come. I almost never drive to see them, but they are here often enough I don't feel like I really have to and I tend to think that if I go see them, it causes them to have to clean their houses and make up bed and move kids to accommodate me so I just assumed that this arrangement suits them ...... I wonder? Maybe I should go more. I do feel like what they really want is to take my kids, lol. It's really not all about me:)

 

As the sister who moved away, I have 4 requests to make on behalf of your sisters:

1) Don't be too busy to visit with them when they come. It sounds like you are visiting with them, but it took one of my siblings close to 2 decades to realize that maybe she should set more than 2-3 hours aside to visit with siblings, nephews and nieces she saw only once a year, because her social/shopping/church/whatever schedule was too busy to spend any time with us. Strange, we could set aside our busy schedules AND spend lots of money traveling.

 

2) Don't gripe about what a pain it is to deal with your parents because they want to see you a couple of times a month, or they couldn't babysit with your dc when you wanted them too or they wanted to..... The siblings who aren't near to mom and dad would give their eyeteeth to be closer to be able to have the relationship you're griping about. Plus they might be hearing the other side of the story. :D

 

3) Because you're only a few hours away, why don't you ask if there is a particular weekend where you could see something special that all (or most of) your neices and nephews are doing? It may be that a weekend like this would make it difficult for your sisters to house you, but it might be possible to find an inexpensive motel for the night. Alternatively, check into the possibility of a long weeked vacation together. BTW, this is much easier when the N&N's are young.

 

4) Tell them your thoughts about visiting them as you stated them here. Let them decide if they would like you to still visit, or if they're happy with the current set up.

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We mostly visit when we live in "boring" places that no one wants to visit. When we lived near DC, everyone visited!

 

The only people that come and visit us in Alabama and Arkansas are the Grandparents (both sets come), they come to "boring" places a lot more often now that we have kids!

 

One of my husband's brothers and his wife were going to visit us in Arkansas, they had planned out a specific weekend, he fell out of a tree and had to go the the ER a few days before the visit! (Note to hive: Do not climb a tree and chop off limbs. Hire a professional.)

 

It was a pretty bad fall, with pictures to prove it, so we're pretty sure it wasn't just a big plot to pretend to come visit and then not come.

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I would not assert the boundary with the expectation that they will visit YOU. In fact, that's not a boundary at all, it's an ultimatum. Instead, I'd encourage you to set a healthy boundary of visiting when it suits your family's resources: money, time, emotional, etc. I'd be ready to assert space to be safe in that boundary "We won't be visiting as often since it does not work for our family. That is a non debatable decision. You are, however, welcome here!"

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IMHO I would just make sure everyone has an open invitation to see you. Then when you do feel like visiting them just do it. Just don't let pride keep you from driving to see them, even if they never made it to see you. But also, don't feel like your forced to go, wait until it's a good time for you guys and you are doing it for good reasons...like wanting your kids to visit their grandparents, cousins, etc.

 

Alison

 

:iagree: And life won't stop if your kids don't see their cousins. Shared DNA doesn't make life long friends, as I'm sure you realise. I can't think of many good reasons why I should go out of my way for people I don't like, so I generally don't.

 

Rosie

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We moved across the country (for a job) six years ago. My mom visited us once, a few months after the move. My dh's mom (whom I would LOVE to have visit us) has health problems which keep her from traveling. My dh's sister and her family don't come because she's afraid to fly. My brother and his family say they can't afford to come (they have three kids at home, one in college and getting married).

 

So it's just us to do the traveling. We make it about every 18 mos. to two years. It's not cheap! I'd love to see everyone more often, but we just can't.

 

The other part of the dilemma is, when your family back home misses you, is it wrong to spend your vacation $$ on a trip somewhere else by yourselves?

 

Wendi

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In my opinion, you have to make the effort to see your parents. That is part of honoring them. You have to make the effort to visit your in-laws for the same reason, even if it's inconvenient and expensive and if you don't really like them. To me if you marry a man you are making a commitment to his parents. Obviously in cases of extreme abuse, things might be different.

 

In my experience, a lot of MILs don't feel comfortable visiting the DILs. They feel like out of sorts because it's "her" house even though their son lives there, and sometimes they just don't feel all that welcome. So over time, I think a lot of women sort of start waiting for their sons and DILs to come to them because they don't feel like "visit us" really means it.

 

Siblings are different. You don't owe them the same level of devotion. If you want to see them, great. If your parents want you to see each other, sometimes it works out if everyone is visiting Mom at the same time. But I don't think you should feel guilty if it doesn't work out to see YOUR siblings. On the other hand, if DH wants your family to get together with HIS siblings, I think you have to make the effort he wants to make.

Personally, I'm going to disagree with this. There are five of us. We've never, as a couple, lived in the same province as either of our parents, so I don't feel obligated to travel to them, and to be honest, its never been a financial possibility anyways.

 

This year my MIL announced that we were to come visit her. Yeah, not happening. It would mean loss of a weeks pay for my dh, since his work is seasonal, and therefore no vacation, plus travel expenses, and accommodation, etc.

 

I'm not willing to face eviction to honour anyone. If my dh wants to visit his mother alone, he's welcome to, but she's not interested in seeing just him. *shrug*

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If I'm reading correctly, it sounds like you go there for special events--birthdays and holidays.

 

Have you ever called various family members and said, "Would you like to come up for a cookout/dinner/whatever on July 12th at noon?"

 

Instead of just saying, "Y'all come up and visit us, y'hear?", call and invite them for a specific event. Have you done that?

 

If you've invited them to a specific event and they've said no (more than once) then maybe they're being selfish. But perhaps, they're waiting for you to specifically invite them.

 

If someone said, "Come up to my house sometime," I wouldn't call THEM to set up a day. I would wait for them to invite me at a specific time or for a specific event. I wouldn't feel comfortable inviting myself to their house unless they initiated a complete invitation including the day to visit. (Or even said, "I'd like you guys to come up here for a cookout/dinner/whatever. What's a good day in July for you?")

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We don't have this problem so it is easy for me to give an opinion.

 

I agree that you should issue a specific invitation. I would work on the weakest link in the family. Is it grandma and grandpa? Maybe a single aunt. Then make it an event to remember and let the relative go back and tell everyone else about the amazing .... whatever. They'll wonder why they weren't invited.

 

Another strategy is to respond to every suggest that you visit them with "we visited you last time, its your turn to visit us" I would use this with everyone but parents/grandparents. It makes it seem like a politeness issue in which the ball is in their court and you can't visit until they make the trip. And don't let them shrug it off.

 

You are working against "family logic" which by its very nature is not logical. Exp. There are twenty nine of our family in this town and only the five of you, so you should come here to see us. You have to counter it with firmness and a good strategy.

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I completely understand.

 

My MIL has a dozen excuses of why she can't come see us: Can't get off work, who will watch the dogs, Grandma/pa is sick now, etc. However, she and her husband (step-dad), have gone to Ireland about three times and go visit my sister in law in Missouri. She can also take time off from work to babysit Missouri granddaughter but when we visit her at home on a weekend or holiday, she is too busy to be at home. I acutally don't mind that she's not home because when she is, she goes out of her way to make me miserable. It only bothers me because it bothers my husband.

 

In our case, she hates me. Therfore, she is not going to come here. Why would she travel so far to be around someone she hates. Mind you there is no reason for this hate except that her favorite daughter hated me (for having getting pregnant with a boy at same time as she) and the fact that she HAS to have someone to hate and no better has come along long term. Once in a while she will be almost pleasant to me because there is someone short term to hate more but that person moves out of her life and she resorts back to me. It's quite hilarious. Before me she hated her favorite daughter's husband but that stopped when the daughter said she couldn't see her favorite grandchild unless she stopped hating the husband.

 

I am very resentful of having to spend my vacation time and money going to visit someone who hates me and makes me miserable. I go because I love my husband he wants to go. It helps that this year we are going to meet a dear friend of mine in the city. It also helps that we go less frequently (we went from every long weekend to twice a year to once a year to once every two years).

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IMHO I would just make sure everyone has an open invitation to see you. Then when you do feel like visiting them just do it. Just don't let pride keep you from driving to see them, even if they never made it to see you. But also, don't feel like your forced to go, wait until it's a good time for you guys and you are doing it for good reasons...like wanting your kids to visit their grandparents, cousins, etc.

 

Alison

:iagree:We live 900+ miles from the inlaws, about 120 from most of my family, 7 from my parents, and about 900 from my sis. We see my parents 3-5 times a week, my sis 4-5 times a year (When she comes home, she's single with no kids), one uncle and his daughter about once a month, sometimes more ( We alternate driving depending on what is going on.) the inlaws we see every 3 years when we go up there. One niece came every summer from 14 to 20, then she had a baby and that stopped that. Guess which inlaw my kids are closest to? In the 12 years we have lived here, 2 of his sisters have made one trip each. We go up for his mom (who cannot travel) and may not go much at all once she is gone. Anyway, go when it is convenient for you or an event you don't want to miss.

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I would not assert the boundary with the expectation that they will visit YOU. In fact, that's not a boundary at all, it's an ultimatum. Instead, I'd encourage you to set a healthy boundary of visiting when it suits your family's resources: money, time, emotional, etc. I'd be ready to assert space to be safe in that boundary "We won't be visiting as often since it does not work for our family. That is a non debatable decision. You are, however, welcome here!"

 

:iagree: Very well-stated.

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Can you just cut back on the number of invitations you accept? Refuse every other or every third invite. Let them know they're welcome in your home, but that the traveling is stressful for you.

 

I think if you're clear about your situation and communicate it persistantly, they may come around.

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Can you just cut back on the number of invitations you accept? Refuse every other or every third invite. Let them know they're welcome in your home, but that the traveling is stressful for you.

 

I think if you're clear about your situation and communicate it persistantly, they may come around.

 

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. They know the travel is stressful, and I've told mom & dad that it's not easy to come visit as often as they like, we're getting burned out, and even the kids don't like it anymore. (They used to tolerate the car rides because they know the reward at the end is seeing their cousins. On the last visit, I don't know how many times I heard, "Can't we just go back home? Why can't they come visit us?")

 

I think I will take the advice offered by many of you and just visit when I feel like visiting, and stay home when I want to stay home. I'm feeling like this is the only way to make it "fun" again, rather than a burden. If they want to see us, that's fine...if not, well....their loss.

 

Thanks again for all the help! :001_smile:

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