Oh, I agree —I don't see it as an either/or issue — that's really my point. I disagree with the idea that STEM subjects are less important than "classical" ones, I disagree that the push towards improving STEM education in this country is a bad idea, and I disagree with the assumption that focusing on Greek, Latin, and classical literature is necessarily the best way to solve the problem of kids who can't write. Similarly, I strongly disagree with the idea that someone with a PhD in a STEM field who does not write well is therefore by definition "uneducated," while someone who reads Latin but admits to never having taken Algebra II counts as "highly educated." ;) Jackie

But taking time away from other subjects in order to add Greek & Latin will fix the problem of kids not being able to write? :confused: Jackie

:iagree: And I think there several incorrect assumptions underlying the argument that engineers and scientists would be better served by a classical education that included less focus on STEM topics. One of these is the equation of a classical education with the ability to write well. The vast majority of people in this world who are excellent writers did not have classical educations, so clearly there are many ways of accomplishing this, other than sacrificing STEM studies in order to study Greek and Latin and read (someone's idea of) Great Books. Secondly, there are people who have had classical educations and who still can't write — my husband is one of them. He had exactly the sort of "rigorous classical education" that people here seem to revere: he attended a private school in Europe, studied years of Latin, French, and German, analyzed "Great Literature," blah blah blah. He feels that he was very poorly served by his education. He remembers nothing of Latin or French and only a little German, and he still can't write well — but he did his doctoral work at Cambridge, and he has patents granted or pending in seven countries. I agree that current school standards have declined significantly in terms of reading and writing — but I would argue that the same is true of standards in science and math. Yes, it's pathetic that so many students graduate HS without being able to write more than a 10-word text to a friend, but I think it's equally pathetic that most students' level of math is barely above prealgebra and few have even the basic comprehension of science necessary to understand current events. I don't really think that more Latin and less science is going to fix the problem. Jackie

:iagree: I read the whole thread, and my summary is this: It's OK to relax, drop some of the box-checking curriculum, and focus on reading wonderful books, having wonderful in-depth discussions, and finding the joy in homeschooling — as long as you're reading the right books and analyzing them the right way (looking for truth, beauty, and goodness) for the right reasons (raising virtuous children and instilling Christian values). Jackie

LISAAAAA!!!! :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I've been meaning to email you (but my life is crazy, too :willy_nilly:). I do think about you a lot — does that count? :tongue_smilie: Anyway, I'm in the same boat in terms of "stuff" — magazine pages, paint chips, actual bits of flooring, granite samples, fabric swatches, spare bits of hardware, etc. I keep them in the square, flattish, transparent plastic organizers that scrapbookers use (they're about 14"x14"), which fit under the bed or in the top of a closet. You can also get nicer looking fabric-covered boxes like this, if you need to keep them somewhere in view (like in a bookcase or something). You can have one for each room/project, they're easy to stack, don't take up a lot of room, and yet they hold plenty of samples, and even small jars of touch-up paint. Get yourself a silver Sharpie (cause it writes on everything) and write on the sample where you got it, exactly what the color name is, when you bought it, etc. For paints, I paint a little on a piece of cardstock (because it never really looks like the paint chip) and write the actual color formula of the paint (from the can) on it, as well as brand and date. Same with stain — put some on a scrap of wood and label it. I learned this one the hard way — trying to match a stain a couple of years later when I had no idea what I'd used before. :glare: My living room is currently a construction site, as I'm trying to stain/install a 12'x9' bookcase and a 4'x9' bookcase, and paint the whole room, so everything is piled in the middle of the room. (And has been for about... oh, a month and a half. Did I mention I had a bit of trouble with the stain???) Jackie

I still do baskets for the kids (and DH!), generally a mix of candy and little toys and things. Think Geek is a good source for small, inexpensive fun stuff. "Basket stuffers" could include $5 giftcards to Starbucks or iTunes, tiny maglight type flashlights, flavored lip balm, card or dice games, disposable fountain pens with colored ink, tiny flash drives, hex bugs, etc. I usually hide plastic eggs with toys & candy in them, but last year most of the things I bought were too big for the eggs, so I put little clues inside the eggs, and they had to find them all in order to figure out where their baskets were hidden. This year I bought some ancient-history-themed lego minifigs (Spartans, Roman soldiers, gladiators, Cleopatra, a Minotaur, etc.) to put in the eggs. They also each get a small stuffed toy; DS has gotten stuffed microbes, and last year he got a stuffed Killer Rabbit from Monty Python, which was a huge hit (he's made appearances in several of the kids' videos and regularly shows up in strange places around the house). As for candy, JellyBelly jelly beans are always a hit (Costco sells HUGE jars of them around Easter), and if your kids like coffee, there's chocolate covered coffee beans. A couple of nice chocolate bars (like Lindt or Ghirardelli) might be appreciated in lieu of the hollow rabbit. Oh and Pez — my kids get a new Pez dispenser and a bunch of pez every Easter (who doesn't like Pez???). DH gets chocolate-covered coffee beans, German marzipan, British cookies (McVities, HobNobs), exotic mustards & hot sauces, and a couple of little toys or gadgets from Think Geek. Jackie

Have you looked at Beast Academy? Muggins Math uses interesting manipulatives to explain concepts, and they have lots of games for practice. (Scroll to the bottom of the page and look at Number Neighbors, Prealgebra for Visual Learners, and Polygons to Polywogs.) Timez Attack and Mythmatical Battles both helped DS memorize his times tables in a painless way. Also, I agree with the PP who suggested explaining everything visually on a whiteboard. I tried at least a dozen math programs with DS and when I asked him what he thought was the most effective, he said it didn't seem to matter what program we used as long as I explained it on the whiteboard! Jackie

I've had Prime for years, I live in a rural area, and my orders always come in two days. In fact, I ordered several things on Thursday afternoon, expecting them to arrive today, and they came via FedEx Overnight yesterday. The one time things went wrong, UPS temporarily "misplaced" an 8' javelin in a PVC tube (I mean, how can you lose that????), and Amazon gave me a $10 credit. (They also assigned someone to personally track it down and make sure it was expedited to me.) Yup, me, too. Amazon Prime + weekly deliveries from a local organic farm = rarely having to step foot in an actual store. I'm so spoiled by Prime and the CSA that, on the rare occasion I actually have to drive somewhere to shop, I get really annoyed at the inconvenience! Jackie

My DS is dyslexic (and very visual/spatial), and I'm also planning American history for next year. I'm using several Teaching Company courses as spines, aligned with over 100 hrs of documentaries, plus audiobooks and a bit of reading. I'm not tying it to American Literature, though, because he'll be doing an online Classical Lit course. In order to cover some of the standard American Lit, I'm thinking of putting together a half-credit course called American Literature through Film that he can do over the summer. Are you familiar with Audible.com (Amazon's audiobook branch)? Depending on the membership plan, the cost per book can range from less than $10 to about $15, and additional books can be purchased at discount. They also have frequent sales such as BOGO, or 100 books for under $5, or whatever. They have a wide selection of US History, including the complete History of US, Zinn, etc. A quick search for "American history" pulled up this list. Here is a list of audiobooks for classic American literature. You can see a list of the Teaching Company's American History courses here. (Ignore the non-sale prices; they go on sale every few months. You can also easily find them used.) Jackie

Another vote for Scratch and Alice. They were developed by MIT and Carnegie Mellon, respectively, for teaching programming to kids, although Alice is even used in some college-level Intro to CS courses. DD9 uses Scratch Programming for Teens and DS13 is working through Virtual World Design and Creation for Teens, which uses Alice. Jackie

Homeschool in the Woods has an American History series that's entirely based around hands-on crafts and projects. Throw in some American Girl and Dear America books, maybe Liberty's Kids and a few other videos, and you'd have a really fun history program that would be perfect for girls in your age range. For science, Inquiry in Action is a free elementary chemistry program that even your 4 yo could join in on. It's entirely lab-based, includes all the necessary worksheets and lab sheets, and the materials are things you'd probably already have around the house or could easily pick up at the grocery store. Jackie

Albuquerque or Santa Fe, NM 1. Lots of homeschoolers in the area Check; super easy state to HS in 2. Low crime Not low in the middle of the city, but there are very safe neighborhoods. 3. Good air and water quality Definitely 4. Low property taxes - $10,000/yr or less (the lower the better! We pay a lot more than that now, but really want to reduce our costs.) Most areas will be waaaaay less than that. 5. Excellent medical care/hospital nearby (within 15 minutes or so) Two major hospitals, including a university teaching hospital in Albuquerque. 6. Good colleges within 1-2 hours drive (closer if possible) UNM is within 1/2 hour of most parts of the city. The major bonus of living in NM is free tuition at state colleges & universities if the parents are residents (for at least a year) and the student graduates from HS here (including HSers). 7. Shopping nearby (5-10 minutes max away from things like a grocery store) 2 large malls, lots of bookstores and trendy shops in the university area, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Pottery Barn, Williams Sonoma, Anthropologie, a large Apple store, etc. There is also a PHENOMENAL organic CSA that will deliver organic produce/eggs/dairy/meat to your door for way less than the prices at Whole Foods. 8. Decent cultural opportunities within 45 minutes or so 3 major museums in Alb (art, science, natural history), and many more in Santa Fe. 9. Good private high school within 15 minutes, in case ds ever decides he wants to go to "real" school. (This is sort of optional.) Top private high schools include Sandia Prep and Bosque School (they both have websites). There are a couple of WTMers who attended Sandia, I think. 10. Not a super-religious community -- where we live now, no one ever asks you where you go to church or tries to get us to go to their church, and we like it that way! FWIW, dh and I were both raised Catholic, but we are non-practicing right now, so we don't need to be near any specific church. No one cares where (or if) you go to church. 11. Not too much snow. Some snow is OK, as long as it melts away pretty quickly, but I would hate to be in a place where there's snow on the ground for months at a time. Occasional light snow in the winter, usually melts within a day or day. But there's plenty of skiing, snowboarding, etc., in the mountains (Alb & Santa Fe) if you want. 12. No frequent weather disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, or earthquakes. (I know storms can happen anywhere; I just mean we'd like to find a place where really bad stuff is rare, not a regular occurrence.) No hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, or other extreme weather. Days are hot in the summer, but evenings are cool. Winter nights are very cold, but the days are mild & sunny. 1. At least 3,000 square feet (preferably more, but that's the bare minimum) Easily found. 2. Private yard (If it's in a city neighborhood, just a bit of private outdoor space, but in a more suburban/rural setting, we would want 2 or more acres.) Also easily found. 3. Somewhat upscale neighborhood but not super-snobby if we can help it. Lots of choices. 4. Priced at around $600,000 -- less is better, a lot less is even better than that, but we can also go higher if necessary. I'm trying to keep the budget pretty low, because I know it will make it more enticing to my dh, and I'm not one of those people who likes to brag about what I spent for stuff, so the less we spend, the happier I'll be! That kind of money would get you a really big custom house on an acre or more. Here's an example of a 4000 sq' house on an acre in a super safe little community on the outskirts of Albuquerque for $550K: http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/788-W-Meadowlark-Ln_Corrales_NM_87048_M20511-75884?source=web Taxes would probably be around 5k/yr for that property. The village has several restaurants and shops, a Village Mercantile (with everything from horse feed and baby chicks to hardware and nursery plants), it's 10 minutes from major shopping (mall, B&N, Starbucks, tons of restaurants, etc.), about 30 minutes from the university and museums, and an hour from the ABQ airport. Santa Fe is smaller and, in some ways, prettier and more upscale, but also colder (higher altitude) and more expensive. But still a really really nice place to live, and an excellent place to retire to. Jackie

There was a thread a couple of years ago in which a woman, with a very explicit signature that linked to a white supremacist group, started posting that Egyptian royalty were really caucasian, had blond or red hair, etc., and that there was a huge conspiracy to portray them as people of color. She went into a very racist rant and was quickly banned. Jackie

Exactly. Math is incredibly cool — and it's my job as a teacher to turn my kids on to that. If they're bored, then I'm doing something wrong. We have microscopes and science equipment and art supplies and books and documentaries and Teaching Company courses and science magazines and strategy games strewn all over the house. We visit museums and go on field trips and go hiking. We identify birds and plants and animal tracks and sketch in our nature journals; everybody got mini watercolor kits in their Christmas stockings this year. My dad sends us a pack of newspaper clippings every week with all the science stories from the NYTimes, and we read them aloud over lunch (who knew possums were so interesting???). We have a telescope by the back door that gets dragged outside whenever there's a clear night. We have tea parties while DH (who's British) reads stories, like Wind in the Willows, in hilarious accents. The kids invented their own alphabets, which they use to send messages to each other; DS is working on an invented grammar as well. The most common sentence spoken in our house is "I dunno — let's look it up!" That's our idea of "fun." It's not about gimmicks or bright colors or cartoons, it's about teaching kids to engage with the amazing world around them. Jackie

We love Mythmatical Battles! DS is a visual/spatial learner and really struggled with memorizing the multiplication tables. His PS teacher refused to allow him to even start division until he had perfectly memorized them, and he ended up being held back — which was absurd because he had zero trouble with the concepts. I bought all four card decks and it really was "magical" the way DS was able to just absorb the facts from using them while playing. (Times Attack is really good, too, although it's more expensive). Jackie

Thank you!!! We're always looking for new games, and Hive looks awesome! I just ordered the "Carbon" edition, because it includes the two "expansion packs" — mosquitos and lady bugs. (For some reason, the idea of a "Mosquito Expansion Pack" cracks me up.) Jackie

"Meaningful Busywork: Parsing the Oxymoron" I'm having kind of a hard time "parsing" the article — on the one hand, the title acknowledges that "meaningful busywork" is an oxymoron, but then he goes on to say that some busywork, though boring and tedious, is meaningful and useful. To me, "busywork" means pointless work given to someone just to keep them "busy," so if it's useful or meaningful then — by definition — it's not "busywork." He says a couple of other things that I admit are kind of hot button issues for me. E.g.: "Translating a passage written in Latin, for example, is incredibly tedious." (emphasis his) Well, that's only true if you hate Latin! Translating Greek is my son's favorite part of school, he loves the challenge of puzzling out the translations and thinks that being able to read ancient Greek is the coolest thing ever. He also has an awesome Greek teacher who fans those flames. Ditto what Taibbi says about solving math problems — IMHO math is only boring and tedious if it's being taught wrong. The same attitude is expressed in the teachers' statements, paraphrased by Taibbi: "What some students don't seem to understand is that not all the stuff we do can be 'fun'." As if students who crave meaningful, challenging, engaging work are just spoiled and lazy and want everything to be fluffy and "fun." IME, the opposite is true — kids who find their school work to be boring and tedious would rather have harder work that means something than pointless work that's merely "fun." But by framing the problem as if the only alternative to "boring" work is fluffy "fun" work — instead of "challenging" or "meaningful" or "engaging" work — they can justify not meeting the child's needs by asserting that boring, tedious school work is "character building." I don't buy it. I don't think a 6 year old, or an 8, 10, or even 12 year old, needs to "practice" being bored to death in school in order to be able to function as an adult. Do these children never do chores, or wait in the dentist's office, or put up with long car rides, or ever ever do anything boring or tedious in their lives outside of school? IMO a big part of the current educational crisis stems from the fact that so much "schoolwork" is boring, pointless, and meaningless, while the rest of students' time consists of nonstop entertainment. I'd completely reverse that — why not make school the most fascinating, stimulating, engaging part of their lives? There are plenty of other things in life that are unavoidably boring and tedious that will prepare kids for adulthood. I really don't think that boring, tedious schoolwork ever has the "positive" effect people think it does — and I've seen so, so many examples of the negative effects. I do realize that's it's difficult for many classroom teachers to make the work engaging and meaningful for all students, but there are teachers who manage it, and I still think that should be the goal. If either of my kids felt their schoolwork was boring and tedious, I'd figure out how to fix that — and I have, repeatedly. The last piece of the puzzle, for me, was math for DS, but now that we've got that sorted out, I can honestly say that my kids love school, love all their subjects, and do many things in their "free" time that other kids would consider "school work" (nonfiction reading, research, writing, science experiments, etc.) Learning about the world around them really is the most interesting and exciting part of their lives, and to me that's the holy grail of education. Jackie

favorite. word. EVER. :lol: Jackie

Not exactly a toy, but when DD was that age I taught her to knit. She also has a huge collection of stuffed animals, and now they all have little hand-knit scarves and blankets! You can buy little plastic knitting needles made for kids — the set I bought DD had one red and one blue needle, so they could understand the directions better, and there were little cats on the ends to keep the knitting from slipping off. They were shorter than usual, made of very lightweight plastic, and easy for little hands to hold. To keep the yarn from getting everywhere, I cut the bottom off a large plastic soda bottle, insert the skein of yarn, and pull the end out the top, and then duct-tape the bottom back on. Keeps it from getting tangled and ending up everywhere. If you get variegated yarn, even a simple little garter-stitch scarf can look quite impressive. DD's currently making DH a scarf as a surprise for his birthday, and the wonkiness just makes it extra special. :D Other things she liked at that age (and still does) are a nice wooden loom, Geopuzzles, mini Breyer horses, and a wooden stable set. Jackie

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All of Kinetic Books programs have a standard scope and sequence, since they were originally designed for public schools; it is not "behind." IMO the problem sets are also more challenging than TT. As for KB being "half the price," keep in mind that you're paying for a one-year subscription, whereas TT is a set of CD-roms (and a textbook, if you buy it), which can be reused for multiple children and then resold when you're finished, so TT may actually work out to be cheaper in the end. That said, if I had to choose between just those two programs, I would go with KB. Jackie

A student who finished MM6 should be able to do Jacobs Algebra without any trouble. It's a good, solid algebra program that starts gently with a review of prealgebra concepts. IMHO, Teaching Textbooks would be a considerable step down from MM in terms of the depth of explanations and the complexity of the problems. If you do decide to go with TT, definitely go with Algebra rather than Prealgebra. With Kinetic books, I would probably do their prealgebra first; if I remember correctly, KB Algebra jumped into algebra more quickly than Jacobs (and much more quickly than TT). It's an engaging program and has the advantage of providing step-by-step solutions to the problems, but IMO the conceptual explanations were not as good as those in MM. (E.g., KB just tells the student to move the decimal when dividing by a decimal, but doesn't explain why, whereas MM explains this in great detail and has the student "prove" for himself why it works.) AoPS is great if your child likes the narrative approach, and is willing to put a lot of time and energy into math. Maria Miller recommends Foerster's for algebra, and I think a bright student could certainly start Foerster's after MM6. It moves faster than Jacobs, with less review of prealgebra concepts, but the format and the type of explanations are very similar to MM, so the approach will be very familiar. The difficulty might be that Foerster introduces quadratic equations much sooner (Ch. 6) than many other algebra programs (e.g. Ch. 13 in Jacobs). Jackie

The fact that she doesn't like to stop what she's doing doesn't mean she's lying about not realizing she needs to poop — it may actually be the cause of her not feeling it. Sometimes kids get so absorbed in what they're doing that they just "tune out" other stimuli, such as outside noises (like mom calling them!) or even internal stimuli (being tired, being hungry, needing to poop). They really don't notice it, until suddenly the urge is so strong that they realize they're about to poop or pee in their pants and they run for the bathroom. Sometimes they don't make it. IME, this is especially common in kids with sensory issues (picky eater, fussy about clothes, has a difficult time with transitions, etc.). Perhaps she is constipated, but even if there doesn't seem to be a physical cause, I would still not assume that she's just being lazy and can't be bothered to stop playing, or that she's lying about not feeling the signals. I'd be sympathetic and try to help her learn to recognize the signs that she needs to go, including frequent reminders (e.g., if she's absorbed in playing, discreetly ask her to stop for a moment and close her eyes and see if maybe she feels like she needs to go). Jackie

Has he read Aristophanes' The Frogs? It's a quick read, it's very very funny, and there was a Broadway adaptation; you can get the CD on Amazon. Jackie

I absolutely love Burt's Bees' Radiance Day Lotion SPF15. Lightweight, not greasy, and no yucky stuff; the sunscreen is just titanium and zinc oxides. Target and even Walmart carry it, although it's cheapest from Amazon. Jackie