I wanted to update, since we've just finished the 2nd week of class (Arithmetic, Algebra, and Elements of Analysis). I am SO happy with this class! The format is very relaxed, more like a math club with lots of interaction & discussion, rather than a formal class with a lecture followed by a few questions. The classes take a "guided discovery" approach: e.g., an axiom or definition may be provided, followed by questions/problems for the kids to work out on the class whiteboard, followed by a conceptual explanation, followed by more questions and problems. It's a small class (6 kids) and the age range is 11-13. At 13, DS is the oldest, but he's also a 2e math-hater, whereas the younger kids are math-lovers who have had multiple classes with Dr Stoyen. The material is challenging, but the atmosphere is very non-intimidating — Dr Stoyen is like a big teddy bear, very warm and funny, and there's no penalty or embarrassment for wrong answers. (Usually a wrong answer will get a response like "OK, I can see what you were thinking, that was a very good try..." followed by a hint.) And I particularly like the constant reinforcement of the idea that algebra & geometry are just two different ways of looking at the same thing. There are 3 hrs of class per week, and (so far) there is no homework, so I've been pulling a few problems from Jacobs Alg I & Larson Alg II for him to work on the whiteboard between classes. This has turned out to be the perfect approach for DS — very interactive, discovery-based classes plus working fewer/harder problems on a whiteboard, vs. slogging through a textbook. He's totally getting the concepts, but the biggest breakthrough is that, for the first time in his life, he's enjoying math. After years of tears and arguments and hating math, he now says that math is really "fun & interesting." Instead of dawdling and procrastinating, and doing everything possible to get out of math, he's asking me to give him extra problems! We went out to dinner the other night, and he actually asked me to give him some equations to work while we waited for our food. :svengo: Needless to say, I plan to stick with these classes through the end of the sequence. :thumbup: Jackie

There is a subset of the gifted population that scores very highly on V/S tasks, while scoring quite poorly in areas such as working memory and processing speed, who also tend to be poor readers & spellers. The Eides have particularly focused on this group, because these kids tend to be the most neglected in terms of both gifted programs and LD programs (since the giftedness and LDs tend to mask each other). However, this group represents a subset of both the gifted and dyslexic populations — there are many many gifted kids who are neither dyslexic nor VSL, and many many dyslexics who are not gifted (and may not be VSL). Those are three different issues, which can occur in any combination. I think the main thrust of the recent books/blogs/websites that focus on 2e kids is not that dyslexics are always gifted, but that teachers and parents shouldn't overlook the possibility of giftedness in a child just because he/she has learning disabilities. Jackie

You might look at Larson's Elementary & Intermediate Algebra: A Combined Course; you can get a new copy of the 3rd ed. for about $5. There's a large overlap between Alg I & II — I compared the Combined Course volume with Larson's separate Alg I & II books, and it was something like chapters 1-10 matched Alg I and chapters 4-13 matched Alg II. The primary difference was that the first 3-4 chapters in the Combined Course cover the first 6-7 chapters of Alg I in a condensed way, so it would provide a good solid review of Alg I and then move into Alg II. You can also get Dana Mosely DVDs for this book (the inexpensive ones from HM, not Chalkdust). If you're interested in those, let me know and I'll look for the ISBN for you. Jackie

I’m a big proponent of interest-led learning, but I would caution against trying to overplan things — not every interest needs to be turned into a “unit study.†For example, if a child says he wants to learn about how TV works, you could spend a lot of time putting together a big unit study, covering the history/invention of radio & television, lots of books, plan to have him write a report, etc., only to find that he really just wanted to know how a TV works, kwim? Since your son IS interested in a broader study, I'd get some general "how things work" books like The New Way Things Work, Can You Feel the Force, Transformed: How Everyday Things are Made, and the Cool Stuff series (Cool Stuff and How it Works; Cool Stuff 2.0; Cool Stuff Exploded). There is also a magazine called How It Works that puts out a big Annual issue for about $20. You could also check out Make magazine and website (lots of interesting articles, kits, project ideas, etc.). I'd also get lots of old/broken things he can take apart: TV, radio, DVD player, etc. Get a radio kit he can build, add relevant bios (Edison, Tesla, Marconi, etc.), and I strongly recommend Teaching Co’s Physics in Your Life, which explains exactly the sort of things your son is asking about. If you have cable, "How It's Made" is a great series; there's lots of stuff on Discovery Streaming, too. In terms of "output," I'd think outside the box a bit — building a radio, dismantling a DVD player and putting it back together, making/testing models of paper airplanes to see which fly the highest/farthest/etc., can count as "output" — it doesn't have to be worksheets and quizzes! Overplanning a “unit study†can also end up preventing you from following the sort of rabbit trails that (IMHO) are the biggest advantage of an interest-led approach. For example, a couple of summers ago we caught a large mantis, which led to a summer-long study of insects, but none of it was preplanned. We researched mantis species online to identify the species and gender of ours, then found a male of the same species, watched them mate, and watched her lay eggs. We researched mantis egg cases (which led to an interesting rabbit trail about the properties of foam, because the cases are basically a foam that hardens on contact with air), we searched the property for other mantis egg cases, and found some that had tiny round holes in them. A bit more research revealed that those holes had been made by tiny parasitic wasps emerging after eating the mantis larvae! That led to research on parasitic insects, as well as searching for other insect egg cases (we found and hatched some katydid eggs). Watching the mantis eat grasshoppers, we noticed that she always discarded a certain part, which led to research on the anatomy of grasshoppers (online research plus a couple of books with insect anatomy shown in “layers,†as well as a 3D plastic anatomy model of a beetle). Having to catch grasshoppers every day to feed the mantis led to researching/identify all the local species. At the same time we did a parallel/related study of ants, identifying and observing all the different species, looking at specimens under the microscope (we even watched an ant "milking" a mealybug under the microscope!), DS read some of E.O. Wilson's writings on ants, and he designed and carried out several experiments. We also did some experiments with antlions and pillbugs from the Creepy Crawlies and the Scientific Method book. For “output,†DS (11 at the time) did lots of drawings of insect anatomy, as well as drawing various ants, mantids, egg cases, etc., and wrote some observations in his nature journal/sketchbook. DD (then 7) drew ants and a mantis, and colored/labeled insect body parts in a science coloring book I had. She also wrote about her observations in letters to her grandparents, which serve the same function as a "report," plus DD loves to write letters and the grandparents love to get them. NONE of this was planned out, though; it all just followed naturally from what we found and observed and wanted to know more about. With younger kids, I’m much more inclined to just “go with the flow†and address interests as they come up, rather than turning things into formal unit studies. But then I also don’t do output-for-the-sake-of-output. If writing or drawing something helps them process and retain what they’re learning, then they do it, but I don’t “assign†output in the sense of giving them quizzes or worksheets or things like that. To me, those things are designed for teachers with 30 kids who need to check that everyone has met a “standard,†or who need time-fillers, neither of which apply to me. If you want to tie in your language arts, though, it would be easy enough to add copywork of poems about insects, read storybooks about insects, etc. Sometimes I think that can be overkill, though, and can start to feel contrived (at least beyond 2nd or 3rd grade). For older kids, where the “unit†is being counted for credit, I research the topic and pull together a set of resources that I think will cover the material adequately. For example, DS13 recently developed a keen interest in linguistics (which actually started as a rabbit trail from something else), and he wants to count it as a HS credit. Here is a list of resources I pulled together for this: Teaching Co courses: Understanding Linguistics: The Science of Language, and The Story of Human Language (I also have History of the English Language and some books & DVDs on the history of English, if DS decides to pursue that further) Text: An Introduction to Language (I found this by searching the booklists of several colleges to see what they used for Linguistics 101; I will use this as a spine to make sure we cover the main topics, not necessarily as a textbook to be worked through) Supplemental reading: The World’s Writing Systems; The Story of Writing; In the Land of Invented Languages; The Language Construction Kit (all found by searching Amazon; see below) Possible online courses: Linguistics with OnlineG3, Computational Linguistics with Strategicum. (DS has already done a 4-week workshop on ancient alphabets with Lukeion). Output: DS will invent his own alphabet and “conlang†(artificial language) and will participate in the Computational Linguistics Olympiad (which I learned about on the HS board). We also watch the TC lectures together and discuss them. I don’t schedule this, I let DS work on it when he wants; he’s starting it now and will probably finish sometime next year (9th). As for where to find resources, I use Amazon a lot to find books and DVDs on particular topics. One way to pull together a lot of resources very quickly is to set up an Amazon Wishlist for that topic, search for books and/or DVDs, then click "Add to Wishist." When you add something to a wishlist, Amazon gives you a whole list of related items that other people bought; I just click “Add to Wishlist†for anything that looks remotely interesting (I don't click on the item at this point, I just add it to the wishlist for later). When I’ve exhausted the possibilities on the current page, I click on the most relevant-looking item from the suggestions, which takes me to that page, where I get another series of related suggestions, etc. Within about 10 minutes I can have 50 or more items in the wishlist. Then I go through the wishlist and click on individual items, read the reviews and age recommendations, use the Look Inside feature if there is one, etc., and decide if that’s a resource I want to keep or delete from the list. In the end I have a list of books/DVDs I can either order from Amazon, or take to the library, search Netflix, etc. I also look on youtube, Discovery Streaming, Teaching Company, and Open Courseware type sites for relevant lectures/videos. If you really want worksheets and things like that, there are "teacher resources" websites like Enchanted Learning where you can download stuff. Ellen McHenry's website has some really good downloadable games and projects (DD made the paper model of a piston engine, when she was interested in car engines). And of course, you can search this board for suggestions and resources!

Plato's a terrific idea, I forgot about that one! DS did all three of the Plato modules a couple of years ago and really enjoyed them. It makes a great "spine," because it covers the basics and it includes quizzes for each lesson, and then they can flesh it out with interesting readings and experiments. I told DS that if he wants to play a computer game, he has to design and program it himself. :D Interestingly, though, now that we're really into board games as a family, he's more interested in designing a European-style board game than a computer game! And when he goes to friends' houses, he's always trying to convince them to play chess or a board game instead of video games (and he's started giving all his friends board games for their birthdays, lol). :crying: Jackie

If you want online grading as well as lessons, Thinkwell and Kinetic Books would both work. Jackie

The ADD + bad in math + add'l subtle LDs + parents who are both visual artists make me suspect that this kid may be a visual/spatial learner (VSL). This isn't just a preference, but represents a really different "wiring system." I would urge your friend to read about visual/spatial learners and see if that fits her son. This website is a good starting point. This video presents an interesting perspective, and I think can be really helpful for kids, who currently think of themselves as "learning disabled" because they don't happen to learn the way schools teach, to see themselves as "differently wired" rather than "broken." If these things do apply to him, then Saxon math is exactly the opposite of what you want. I would second a PP's recommendation of TT for next year — TT7 provides a good solid review of basic math, and then he could move on to something like Thinkwell or Kinetic Books, which are a little beefier but also pretty engaging. I think her worries about computer-based curriculum are misplaced — taking away all the video games* and allowing him to do a lot of his schoolwork on the computer may be far more effective than making him do "school" with the most boring textbooks out there and then letting him play lots of video games in his free time. Figuring out that my DS was a VSL and tailoring his education accordingly (including lots of online courses & activities), plus taking away the video games, have totally totally turned things around here. For LA, I would recommend either an integrated LA program like MCT (backing up a few levels), or just giving him a year off LA and letting him read like crazy. Does he read now? If he's not into reading, I'd get him the kind of series that really appeal to boys his age (Percy Jackson, Ranger's Apprentice, Fablehaven, Nicholas Flamel) and just let him read, read, read. Trying to get an ADD, game-addicted, reluctant reader through high school is going to be a nightmare, so the time invested now in getting him to love reading will pay off more in the long run than a year of grammar drill that will just make him hate LA. If he is already a decent reader, she might consider Online G3's Literary Lessons from Lord of the Rings class, which is usually offered in the fall. They also do a lot of Lightning Lit courses. Online classes have the advantage of making him accountable to someone else, too. If she insists on a grammar program, I'd try Analytical Grammar; it's parts-to-whole, but at least it moves quickly so it assembles the parts into a whole before the kid gets totally lost — and it gets grammar "over with" pretty quickly, instead of years of drill and repetition. For science... what's he interested in? I'd pick the subject he's most interested in and focus on that for a year. If it's physics, for example, there are lots of nontraditional "texts" out there — the Cartoon Guide to Physics, Manga Guide to Physics, There Are No Electrons: Electronics for Earthlings, etc. Lots of documentaries, too. Get some electronics kits and a book of physics experiments. If it's biology, try The Way Life Works, plus something fun for labs like Creepy Crawlies and the Scientific Method. There's a fabulous online drawing program that teaches human anatomy and figure drawing; by the end of it, a student should be able to draw the human body "from the inside out," starting with the skeleton, adding each muscle, etc. That's a good example of using one curriculum or program to cover more than one academic base — making "school" as efficient as possible allows more time for the child to pursue his interests. For history, I think your suggestions (K12 or the OUP series) are good; I'd supplement with lots of documentaries. Do they have Netflix streaming? There are a LOT of historical documentaries. If he's into computers and gaming, I would also get him involved in programming with something like Virtual World Design & Creation for Teens, which uses Alice. Scratch Programming for Teens is another entry-level book that teaches programming in a fun way. I know you didn't ask about logic/critical thinking programs, but I would highly recommend games for this — chess, Mastermind (a great logic game!), Othello, Blokus, and board games like Catan, Stone Age, Ticket to Ride, etc. There are even some board games, like Civilization, that are based on computer games; this could be an effective way of "weaning" her son from computer/video games — and if the family plays them together, it can strengthen their relationships, too, which is especially valuable when dealing with kids this age. One thing you will often hear about kids with ADD is that they seem to have no trouble paying attention to things they're interested in, and that's true. That's how they're wired, and it makes me sad when I see how often this is treated as a "character flaw." (Not saying that either you or your friend are doing this; just saying it's unfortunately very common.) In my experience, giving these kids work that they find engaging and meaningful is MUCH more effective; not only do they learn a lot more, it often solves the "attitude problem." Trying to force them to learn from dry textbooks that truly do not work for them too often escalates into a battle of wills — and they still won't learn or retain anything, no matter how much you punish them. All it does is destroy the relationship. Jackie *Many kids with ADD become addicted to video games, because gaming releases dopamine, and dopamine processing issues are one of the key factors in ADD, so gaming acts a bit like Ritalin. Kids who are addicted to gaming often have "attitude problems" because they truly feel lousy when they're not gaming; they use up all their dopamine while playing, leaving them cranky, impatient, and irritable.

I posted in this thread about an online math program for gifted kids taught by a former Soviet Math Olympian. The first group of classes starts this week, but there is also a Counting & Probability class that starts March 12th. See the linked thread for more info. Jackie

Lukeion has openings in their Mythology class and the Barbarian Diagrammarian class (the 2:15 one). Classes start Jan. 24th. My DS will be taking the Mythology class next year, and I've heard good things about it from other people. He took the grammar last summer and it was awesome. Hard to believe a grammar class could be so enjoyable, but we both loved it. And he learned a ton — it's especially useful as a prep for foreign language study, because the course was originally designed to help their Greek & Latin students. DS also takes Greek with them, and has done lots of their history workshops; we absolutely LOVE Lukeion here. Jackie

I've used both SM & MM, and compared them extensively (had a full set of each) and :iagree: Jackie

The classes meet 3 hrs/wk, though, so if you look at the cost per lecture hour ($17), it's not that out of line. Lukeion classes are about the same, and some of the PA Homeschooler classes are $21/lecture hour. Other classes often have registration fees and textbooks to buy, too. The other thing is that these are "integrated" math classes, which cover related topics that are usually (in the US) taught in separate years, so he covers far more math in a shorter period of time. The entire program will cover, in 3 years or so, what a typical US program would cover from Prealgebra to beyond Calculus (i.e. what would take 6-8 years in a typical US math progression). If you look at what the entire program would cost, it would be in the same neighborhood as AoPS or Landry Academy. E.g. if a student took all of the AoPS classes, it would come to about $3700 (including texts); 14 semesters at Landry Academy (Prealg through Calc & Stats) would be $4500 (plus the cost of the textbooks), and that wouldn't even cover some of the more esoteric topics. The reason I'm so interested in it is that I totally agree with his philosophy about teaching math, and I haven't seen any other program like that. Also, he really "gets" 2e kids (both as a parent and a teacher), and his approach seems tailor-made for kids who are gifted enough to handle advanced concepts, but have LDs that make it really difficult to extract those concepts from standard programs. This program seems to provide that interconnected/whole-to-parts focus that's missing from other math programs, coupled with the acceleration and lack of repetition that seems to work well with 2e kids. Anyway, DS has his first classes next week (Mon & Thurs), so I'll update when I've actually seen the teacher in action. Jackie

Audible also has an "Annual/Gold Plan" that costs $150/yr, for which you get 12 "credits," which works out to about $12.50 each (most audiobooks are 1 credit). You get them all at once, too, not one per month like you do on the monthly payment plan. I remember when I first signed up there was also some kind of promotion where you got an extra 2 credits free. ETA: Amazon currently has a promotion for a $100 credit when you sign up for a Gold membership. Audible also sells quite a few of the audio courses (usually 12-15 lectures, around 8 hrs total) from The Modern Scholar, which are only 1 credit each ($99 on the Modern Scholar website). Modern Scholar has a series of "Great Books" courses, although I haven't used them. Audible is owned by, and fully integrated with, Amazon, so if you have a Kindle your audiobooks will appear on your Kindle. Jackie

Here is some additional info about the three courses that start this month:

Here is some additional info about the three courses that start this month:

I'm afraid there isn't any written course material, just the lectures and the problems that he gives the kids to work through. That's also how the Lukeion grammar course worked — all of the information was contained in the classes, there was no separate text or workbook. What I loved about the Lukeion course (which I'm hoping is true of these math classes) is that by eliminating all the repetition and review and busywork, and just explaining the concepts really clearly and in context, the process is far more efficient and effective. After a one hour lecture on tense and aspect, with clear charts and tables, DS understood it perfectly. Even now (six months later, with no review) if I ask him to tell me the "future perfect progressive" of any verb, he can do it instantly. Ditto with any other grammatical concept. For some kids, getting them to "see" the whole system at once is more effective than years of drill and workbooks. Not to mention the fact that this one 4-wk class transformed a grammar-hating kid into one with a keen interest in linguistics! I'm hoping that these math classes are equally effective! Jackie

Strategicum.com I recently heard about this program through a gifted email list I'm on. I haven't used it yet, but I’ve been corresponding with Dr. Stoyen and have signed DS13 up for one of the classes (which starts next week). The classes generally meet for two 90-minute sessions each week, although there is also a class for younger kids that meets for two 1 hr sessions/wk. There is no textbook; Dr. Stoyen teaches the concepts and assigns the problems himself. Here is a brief description of the philosophy/methodology, from the website:

Strategicum.com This is a new program, which I just recently heard about through a gifted email list I'm on. I haven't used it yet, but I’ve been corresponding with Dr. Stoyen and have signed DS13 up for one of the classes (which starts next week). The classes generally meet for two 90-minute sessions each week, although there is also a class for younger kids that meets for two 1 hr sessions/wk. There is no textbook; Dr. Stoyen teaches the concepts and assigns the problems himself. This is an integrated math program, in the sense that it combines related concepts which are generally taught in separate “courses†in the US. For example, the Arithmetic, Algebra, and Elements of Analysis course covers concepts which, in the US, would be scattered across several years from Prealgebra to Calculus. The next course in the sequence is Counting and Probabilities, Sets and Cardinalities. He also offers coaching for various Olympiads/MathCounts/NACLO, etc. Here is a brief description of the philosophy/methodology, from the website:

In case you don't find a good alternative, Lukeion will record the classes if you need to watch them later. Obviously you'd miss out on some of the interactivity of the live class, but you can always email any questions. All of the homework, quizzes, and other activities are available online through Quia and can be accessed any time. Lukeion Greek students are automatically enrolled in the National Greek Exam in the spring semester. Jackie

The authors of Athenaze, Maurice Balme and Gilbert Lawall, also wrote Ecce Romani (Lawall) and Oxford Latin (Balme), which are similar to Cambridge. If you're interested in an online course, Lukeion uses Athenaze. Regan Barr is a wonderful teacher; we've been thrilled with all of the Lukeion classes DS13 has taken so far. Jackie

My DS also has SPD and anxiety issues. Anxiety is very very common with SPD, especially proprioceptive SPD. Someone once described proprioceptive SPD as not perceiving gravity properly, never knowing where your body is in space, and therefore "always feeling like you're about to fall off the face of the Earth." That would make me anxious, too! Does your son like bear hugs, heavy blankets, and that sort of thing? I would try a weighted or compression vest, weighted blankets, etc., before resorting to meds for the anxiety. We have also had good results with Omega3, Vit D, and B complex. Oh, and LOTS of exercise, especially things that involve joint compression, like trampolining and pogo sticking. My DS was extremely anxious and miserable when I pulled him out of school, and often talked about hating himself and wishing he were dead. He would hit himself in the head and talk about hating his "stupid brain," etc. I have no doubt that if I'd taken him to a psychiatrist, he would have been medicated. I have a friend who's a pediatric psychiatrist and she puts everyone on meds, often at the first meeting; that's just what she's trained to do. We opted instead to treat the underlying issues instead of the symptoms, and although he still has anxiety issues, they're mild instead of debilitating. And now that his education is tailored to the way he learns best, he no longer "hates his brain" or hits himself in frustration. He's no longer depressed, and in fact he would say that he's very happy and loves his life. I hope you find what works for your son. :grouphug: Jackie

DS13 has taken an intensive grammar course (The Barbarian Diagrammarian) and several history workshops with Lukeion, and is currently taking Greek I (Athenaze). I cannot recommend them highly enough! Regan Barr is a wonderful teacher, the lectures are very visual and engaging, and there are tons of additional online exercises and resources. DS plans to take their Classical Literature class next year, and he'll continue with them through Greek IV. DD9 will take Latin with Lukeion in a couple of years. Jackie

I don't see anything wrong with "technology" per se; I think it all depends on how it's being used. We have 5 desktop computers & 2 laptops, 2 Kindles, and 4 iPods, and we have satellite TV and a DVR. My kids actually do a LOT of schoolwork on their computers (DS does several online classes). However, we don't do computer/video games (at all) and we watch very little TV other than documentaries, Science Channel, Discovery Channel, etc. — MythBusters is about as close to "junk TV" as we get. For entertainment, we play board games, go for nature walks, visit museums, read, draw, listen to music and audiobooks, etc. I think there's a big difference between doing online Latin exercises and listening to an audiobook on an iPod, vs. playing Grand Theft Auto and watching junk TV. Jackie

I highly recommend Lukeion's Greek classes! The first two years cover the two volumes of Athenaze, then Greek 3 & 4 are reading courses. The great thing about Athenaze is that there is a lot of translation and reading, not just grammar drill, so students are reading whole pages of Greek from the very beginning. The Lukeion course covers 1 chapter per week, with an hour-long live lecture plus online homework assignments, practice games and activities in Quia (flashcards, memory/matching games, etc.), and an online quiz. So in Greek 1a, for example, there were 15 lectures, 15 assignments, and 15 quizzes. There are also some audio files, links to lots of other resources, self-quiz activities, and other things. The teacher, Regan Barr, is a classical archaeologist and a wonderful teacher — very warm and funny and supportive of the students. DS has taken several history classes with Regan, as well as an intensive grammar course (The Barbarian Diagrammarian), and I've been extremely impressed with all of them. My DS is dyslexic and ADD, and never in a million years did I expect him to ask to learn Greek, but he has the same motivation as your son: to read Homer (and Thucydides, Herodotus, Xenophon, etc.). Greek is now his favorite subject; he worked his butt off this semester and earned an A+! Jackie

Instructables! If you click on Technology, you'll see the more techy type projects, but there are lots of fun projects and hacks in the other sections, too. There's even a whole section on paper projects. It's free but you can also buy a membership (I forget what they call it) that lets you see all the instructions for each project on a single page. It was cheap (maybe $20?). I did it a couple of years ago when I was printing off lots of projects. Now that I think of it.... maybe I'll give DH a membership for Christmas. Jackie