Thank you for saying that, Jane. I've been really shocked by some of the assumptions that people are making here. Bless you for helping this girl, Faith. I'm so glad that she has someone in her life that's not writing her off as "lazy" or deciding she's not college material just because it didn't occur to her to hitch-hike to a library, lie about her age, access the internet against her parents' wishes, and check to see if they were lying to her about the requirements for getting into college. Clearly, this girl is not the only one living in a bubble. :glare: Jackie

Ancient Alphabets (taught by Amy) and Roman Murder Mystery (taught by Regan) were DS's favorites, but he also really enjoyed Theater of War (Regan) and the one on Troy (Amy). He says "Regan is funnier but he likes them both." :001_smile: Jackie

You mean it would be helpful for me to imagine how it would feel to be shunned by normal, rational people just because I think it's OK to beat babies and children with sticks and hoses? Well, I wish it felt like crap, because then maybe they'd stop and think about what they're doing. But unfortunately that rarely seems to be case — Heather's experience with her dinner guests being a case in point. How can their feelings be hurt when they know they're so much better and more Christian than the people (like Heather) who disagree with them? And then there are those who stick to their ideals and values no matter what life throws at them. No matter how long I live or how much I parent, NOTHING will ever convince me that it's OK to hit babies or to beat children with a pipe until they can hardly breathe. Accepting child abuse as just another "parenting choice" is not proof of humility or wisdom. IMHO, it is quite the opposite. Jackie

Of course there are. There are also child abusers who do get their ideas from books, including the Pearls' books. The sick thing about the Pearls is that they try to convince people that God wants them to beat their kids, and that failing to do so means they are not good Christians. At best, they're providing a Biblical justification for abuse, which can be deadly in the hands of people who are already inclined towards abuse, and at worst they are creating abusers out of parents who would never have thought of beating a child with plastic tubing until the Pearls told them that God demands it. Jackie

Of course your thinking is flawed and unbiblical— everyone knows that Jesus went around whipping babies and children, it's right there in the Bible, clear as day. :rolleyes: I'm so sorry you have to deal with that Heather — and I'm even sorrier for all the children who have to deal with it. Makes me feel ill to even think about it. :ack2::crying::angry: Jackie

Because, for some people, hitting infants with switches and beating children with plastic hoses until they "no longer have breath to complain," actually is a huge issue. Breast vs. bottle, co-sleeping vs. "Ferberizing," organic vs. junk food, homeschooling vs. PS — none of those things would be a deal-breaker for me in terms of friendship. But anyone who thinks it's OK to hit infants and children with switches and plastic hoses just lives on a completely different planet from me, and there'd be no point in pretending otherwise. Jackie

I didn't mind the big guys at all — I thought they were totally cool and would willingly have one as a pet. (I especially love the fact that they pair-bond and sleep together cuddled up, with the male's legs wrapped around the female — how cute is that??!) But OMG did anyone watch the video of the larva hatching??? The article suggested that the video was produced as a way of showing the locals how cute the critters are, but I suspect it's going to backfire badly! As much as we love bugs in this family, all three of us were watching that hatching video thinking "whoa, that's one creepy, squirming Alien spawn thing!" :ack2: Jackie

:iagree: I read it to my kids and must confess I actually choked up at the end:

I'm going to suggest a completely different approach, at least for now: let him just play around with languages, for fun. If he eventually decides to pursue advanced fluency in any of these languages, he'll need a more formal program of study — but that doesn't mean he needs to study all four languages with a teacher and a textbook at 11. Here are some things he can do on his own: (1) Learn about linguistics. The Teaching Co linguistics course by John McWhorter is excellent — really interesting and engaging for anyone with an interest in languages, and a lot of the info has surprisingly practical applications. (The other day DS was listening to Michel Thomas explain something about Spanish pronunciation, and he immediately said "Oh, that's because the Spanish 'd' is a [...insert technical phonetic term I don't remember...] whereas the English 'd' is a [... some other technical term...].") It's helped with Greek, too, because endings often depend on whether the stems are labial, dental, velar, liquid, nasal, etc., and he understands exactly that those are. He also "gets" grammar on a much deeper level than he did when he was just studying English grammar. (2) Invent his own language! The Language Construction Kit is a really fun introduction to linguistics, because it teaches linguistics principles in the process of explaining how to invent your own language. Books like The World's Writing Systems and Languages of the World are really fun to browse, and show just how incredibly wild and varied human languages can be. (3) Check your library for self-teaching programs like Pimsleur, Michel Thomas, Living Language, Mango, or Rosetta Stone. No, none of those programs will get you much beyond a beginner level (although Michel Thomas includes a surprising amount of grammar, especially in the Advanced courses — NB: in the US the Foundation course is called Total and the Advanced course is called Perfect). They will, however, give him a head start on vocab, some basic conversational fluency, and a decent accent. (4) Assimil is a highly regarded language program produced in France (in many different languages), which combines a reading and grammar approach and can be totally self-teaching. It's cheap, too — you can get Assimil's French with Ease (4 audio CDs and a 590-page book) for $32. Their German program is also supposed to be very good (in fact, the only Assimil program I've read negative reviews about is the Arabic one). Assuming your 11 year old is a strong reader, he should be able to do these on his own, at his own pace, on his own time. (5) Get exposure to LOTS of different languages. For $99, OnlineG3 (scroll to the bottom of the page) offers a 1-year school subscription (subscriptions run July-July) to Rosetta Stone that gives you access to all 25 languages. In addition to picking up vocabulary in German and French, he could play around with Hindi, Turkish, Tagalog, Irish Gaelic, and lots of other languages! (6) Watch videos in French and German — especially movies he's already seen in English, so he knows the story line. Get books like Harry Potter or The Little Prince in French and German, along with audiobooks in those languages, and let him read the English and French or German versions side by side, or listen to the French/German audiobook while following along in the English one. My DS has also developed a serious interest in linguistics and languages, and asked to add more languages to the Attic Greek class he takes through Lukeion. Rather than doing these as separate "school subjects," I just assembled a big stack of resources for him and told him to have at it! I count his Lukeion course as "school," but he works on the other languages on his own time. He's also started watching DVDs with the Spanish language track instead of the English one, to help tune his ear and get used to the language spoken at a natural speed. At some point in the future, he will probably focus on each of those languages in more depth, with formal classes or textbooks, but instead of starting from scratch he'll already have a good chunk of vocabulary, a basic understanding of grammar, a good ear, and a decent accent. Jackie

:confused: AFAIK their website hasn't been down at all. I've been there many times in the last week or two, I registered for next year's classes through the website a few days ago, and it's opening fine for me right now. Jackie

I just wanted to mention a couple of things regarding Quia and the Lukeion lectures: One thing I really like about the current version of Quia is that it provides instant feedback as soon as the homework or quiz is submitted — the student sees all of the correct answers and translations immediately below his own. There is also a student page that the parent can sign into at any time to view the student's submitted homework and quizzes, check his grades, etc. I don't think the problem that Heather mentioned, where a student submits homework but doesn't find out until days later that Quia didn't accept it, could happen with the current software. As for the problem of typing in answers below the translation passages, DS just types his homework in a text file, with the two documents open side-by-side on the screen; it only takes a few seconds to cut & paste the answers into the Quia page and hit submit. That way, if there were ever a computer glitch, he would still have a complete, saved copy of his homework which could easily be resubmitted or emailed to the teacher. Regarding the lectures... yes, there's only one hour/week of lecture, but (at least for the Greek class) there are TONS of activities and resources posted on the class Quia page, including digital flashcards, vocabulary games, additional exercises for conjugation & declension practice, etc. Regan Barr uploads new activities every week that reinforce the grammar and vocabulary in the current chapter, and the previous weeks' resources and activities remain available all year, so students can go back and review at any time. DS spends several hours per week on those activities, and I actually prefer this approach to additional lecture hours — it provides more flexibility in scheduling and it allows him to concentrate on areas where he needs the most practice and skip topics he already knows well. Jackie

Add me to the list of Lukeion fans! DS13 has taken the grammar course, 5 or 6 workshops, and Greek I (currently enrolled). Next year he's signed up for Greek II, Classical Literature, and workshops on Greek art & architecture. DS plans to stay with Lukeion through Greek IV, and DD can't wait until she's old enough for Amy's Latin class. Regan and Amy are both exceptional teachers, and all of the courses we have done with them have exceeded my expectations. We LOVE Lukeion! Jackie

UT Austin offers high school credit by exam (for grades K-12 actually). The exams need to be proctored (e.g. supervised by a teacher or libriarian), and the cost is $45 for a one semester course (.5 credit) and $90 for a full year course (1 credit). You can download study guides for the courses, to see what the exams cover. Jackie

Does the blind person have to be 100% blind to qualify? What about someone with extremely poor vision who needs larger print — should that be allowed? What about someone whose hand is physically "healthy," but for whom the connection between the brain and the hand is not? The reason some people need extra time on standardized tests isn't because they're dumber than other kids and are therefore getting an unfair advantage and preventing the tests from truly selecting the "smartest" or "best"; it's because their brains process verbal information in a different way. They can't rewire their brains any more than blind people can somehow "make" themselves see better. And neither of those things has anything to do with intelligence or aptitude. What if someone suddenly decided that all university admissions tests, everywhere in the world, should be given in English. That's an even playing field for everyone, since everyone takes the tests in the same language, right? Those for whom English is not their first language should not get any special accommodations, because that would prevent the tests from being truly meritocratic and selecting the best of the best. Of course that would not work — it would make fluency in English more important than anything else, and would exclude millions of students who may be brilliant in their fields but not terribly good at foreign languages. Well, for some people who are wired differently, that's exactly what it's like — English is not their first language because words are not their first language. Giving them a bit of extra time to translate and process verbal information is no different from giving someone with extremely poor vision a large-print book. It allows them to be fairly tested on their knowledge and understanding, rather than being penalized for their neurology. Jackie

No, slow processing speed (defined by WISC score) does not refer to being late or taking a long time to do things (eat, get dressed, etc.), it refers to the fact that the brain processes verbal information (either written or oral) slowly. Many people who have been diagnosed with SPS also have executive function issues, because they do not process linear/sequential information well. But being chronically late for things does not in itself prove slow processing speed. People like my DH & DS literally do not percieve time the way that I do, and truly cannot manage time without external support (timers, reminders, etc.) That is very different from what Ester referred to, where she was quite capable of doing things quickly but (at that point in her life) chose not to. Jackie

The connection between processing slowly and doing things slowly is not direct — IOW, the slow processing speed does not cause them to take long showers or lose track of time. Rather the slow processing speed (esp. combined with poor working memory) and the poor time management are both indicative of visual-spatial wiring. BTW, these diagnoses (SPS/PWM) generally refer to slow processing of verbal information — many of these kids (and adults) actually have superior processing speed with visual & spatial information. For those of us who are linear-sequential thinkers, it's easy to keep track of time. We have a good sense of what "5 minutes" means, of what an hour is, etc. Whenever I have to guess the time, I'm rarely off by more than a few minutes. I'm a fairly extreme linear/sequential thinker, though — and I'm terrible at spatial tasks. I have a very poor sense of direction, for example. In contrast, DH and DS are extreme V/S thinkers, and while they can perform visual/spatial tasks quickly and with accuracy, they struggle to follow complex sequential instructions and they have no sense of linear time. DH will say he'll be done with something "in 10 minutes" and an hour later he'll absolutely swear it was only 10 minutes. I'm not sure what relationship this has to people who just physically move slowly (walk slowly, eat slowly), etc., as both DH & DS are physically quite active and have quick physical reflexes (e.g., if someone knocks something off a table, DH will grab it before it hits the floor; he can move so fast it looks like a blur). When he or DS are really thinking about something, though, they're in their own private time zones — it's as if switching into visual/spatial mode (they think in images) disengages all linear-sequential processing and suspends or freezes time. It's not that they're thinking slowly (it's not uncommon for DH to take a 45 minute shower, and then spend several hours writing up or drawing all the ideas he came up with in the shower), it's just that time sort of doesn't exist while they're in that space. I've even seen DH standing in the bathroom while shaving, razor poised in mid-air for 5 minutes or more, while he works out some algorithm or something in his head. :lol: Jackie

For me, the key to instilling a love of learning is to just make it part of everyday life. We go to museums, we go hiking and geocaching, we take sketchbooks to the zoo or on nature walks. We subscribe to science magazines, watch documentaries and Teaching Company courses, listen to audiobooks, and have overflowing bookcases crammed into almost every room. We play board games together. We have microscopes, a telescope, Mindstorms, electronics kits, Zometools, and art supplies freely available whenever anyone wants to use them. We eat most of our meals together as a family and have genuine discussions about interesting things — in fact, we have a 3'x4' chalkboard on the kitchen wall, and it's not uncommon for someone to jump up in the middle of dinner to illustrate a point. :) Jackie

Beautifully said! Jackie

EXACTLY. "The US could be next! Your rights are at risk! You need us to protect you!" :glare: Jackie

No, you're just helpfully pointing out that you know what's right and you have principles, and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong, has no principles, would bail as soon as their relationship hit a rough patch, and should never get married in the first place. :rolleyes: Oh, I think she knows exactly how she sounds. Jackie

:iagree: I've never met anyone for whom divorce was anything less than utterly gut-wrenching, even when both parties agreed to it and there were no children involved. I think it's highly insulting to imply that just because someone will not absolutely unequivocably rule out the possibility of divorce, then their vows are "meaningless." Jackie

I disagree with both of these statements. (1) The assumption that "in every traditional culture throughout history" marriage is always assumed to be "forever" — till death do us part — is not true. Nor is the primary goal of marriage in all cultures to "make a family." (2) I don't think there is a "strongly held belief" in the US these days that marriages last "forever." I don't think anyone goes into a marriage planning on divorce, but I think people are pretty realistic about what the odds are. Jackie

I agree – as long as there are legal benefits and restrictions tied to marital status, I think it's unfair for people to be excluded from federal/state/legal benefits on religious grounds. If members of certain faiths believe that only heterosexuals should be allowed to marry, then marriage should be a religious institution without legal status, and some other institution (civil union or whatever) should be the basis for the federal/state/legal benefits that are currently given to married couples. Jackie

Well, if marriage is primarily about "becoming a family" then what's wrong with polygamous marriages? They "make a family" — and one could even argue that they make a stronger family, because there is a broader support system and people might be less likely to divorce if they could simply add another spouse without divorcing the first one. In some cultures, a widow is expected to marry the brother of her late husband, to keep "the family" together. What's wrong with that? What would be wrong with "communal marriages," where multiple partners of both sexes commit to a long-term relationship raising their children together in one big family? Of course, if you believe that marriage can only consist of one man and one woman married until death parts them, then you're back to arguing that your personal religious beliefs should apply to everyone else. Jackie

How do you know what was in their vows??? Maybe their vows were deeply meaningful to them, and expressed the hopes and promises that they were bringing to their marriage. Just as your vows expressed your hopes and promises. What makes you think that if two people have been together for years, and have tried hard to work things out, that the decision to separate would be a simple matter of "just moving out"? Do you really think that unless someone's beliefs about marriage are identical to yours then they are incapable of a loving, committed relationship? That separating would be a painless exercise in packing boxes, devoid of trauma or heartbreak? Do you actually believe that? :confused: Jackie