It it also always possible that autism is not the only appropriate diagnosis. There might be another comorbid condition. What a difficult situation. She's fortunate to have you on her side.

This is an extremely good point. Professionals who take the time to find out about my dd's special interests and connect with her by talking about them generally find her cooperative. She can be very difficult when she is under stress, but her special interest helps her relax.

I will be thinking of you and K. Hugs and best wishes.

I'm so sorry. How wonderful that she was able to be such a close part of your childrens' lives. They will remember that always.

Hugs. I know it's hard. Do you think you'd be pleased with taking the step of getting it in the mail? Just one step, and then you can pat yourself on the back and know you did that, and maybe feel a little better about the next step. It really is something difficult you're contemplating, you know. Try to give yourself full credit for that in your own mind. Facing anxiety and plowing on regardless is hard. Don't diminish that difficulty to yourself by saying "why can't I get this in the mail?" Reframe it as "This is a really significant obstacle. It's hard, but I'm not giving up. I am proud of myself."

No shadowing here. When I talked to a registrar she was puzzled by the suggestion of touring the school and said they couldn't do that either. We have a couple of summer options for drama, which dd is pursuing. Nothing else-- small town. I may try to find out what the other girl's current interests are. I'm also going to see if dd could take part in after-school activities or take just a few classes at the public school. I really appreciate those ideas. Realistically, if dd goes to that school, she has to be prepared to deal with the bully. They would both be in the honors program, which is a relatively small part of the school.

The extracurricular she wants is drama. The private school has very little, and it involves the whole school, elementary-12th, and is parent-led. Dd loves Shakespeare. The public school has en extensive listing of drama and theatre classes and multiple productions each year, plus kids do the costumes, backstage, etc which are handled by parents in the private school. And, ETA, I see the irony here that she's shy and worried by dealing with the other kid but happy to be on stage. I guess they're different sorts of anxieties.

We've talked to the school about a transfer, but she must be enrolled there before they will even entertain the notion. I doubt it would work out. There is a significant difference between the two local schools, and a great many people would love to get their kids into the better one. And by the time she's enrolled there, it would be too late to switch to the private school. I doubt the school would take the problem with the other girl seriously. It was never documented through the schools, simply because we'd struggled with them on other matters and had given up. And she is not perceived as a bad kid: she's an extremely bright high achiever who's probably bored, and her empathy hasn't quite caught up with her other abilities. I don't think she is a bad kid, if such a thing exists. But she was extremely cruel to dd. Thinking more, one could argue the real problem isn't the other girl, but dd's lack of self-confidence. She and I have talked about the issue of giving this kid so much power over dd's life and choices. She's already getting counselling. She's thinking it over. As for the drugs and gangs, while they don't make me happy, the parochial school has its own drug issues. It's known as a "wealthy kids' school," though actually a lot are on scholarship, and there are a lot of unhappy kids with more money than parental involvement. So on that issue, the choice isn't quite as clear as I probably made it sound at first. I'm afraid we're really in the realm of no perfect choices. I kind of think the public school, despite its problems, would offer dd more scope for growth if she could get past the issue of the other kid. It's just got so much more diversity of experience and thought and opportunity. But I also feel a bit crazy for considering leaving a place with smaller classes, more personal attention, better test scores. The test scores are just an average, though. And small boxes can get stifling. Anyway, thanks for giving me things to think about.

To answer a few questions quickly... A lot of students at each school will already know each other, plus there will be a few new ones at the parochial school, and about half from a different middle school at the public school. Dd is definitely worried about seeing her old nemesis. They would probably share a class or two, and would share a bus stop and bus ride. They are neighbors. Paths haven't crossed much lately, but about a year ago dd tried to make friendly overtures which the other girl ignored. Dd is quiet and shy, other girl is confident and more socially nimble. The "school within a school" scenario is what I'm hoping for. We're talking with counselors at each school soon to find out more. I appreciate hearing what others think-- I'm trying to make sure I ask all the right questions when I get a chance.

---Please don't quote--- Anyone want to help me think this through? Dd will be starting 9th grade in the fall. She is currently at a small parochial school after 3+ years of homeschooling. She has the choice of staying at her current school or switching to the local public school for high school. The parochial school is supposed to be academically challenging, but in reality dd is bored. In the fall she should be able to move into some honors classes, though we don't know how different that will be: the required reading list for the honors class is the same as that for the regular class. Average SAT scores are markedly better than at the public school, though. The parochial school is simply so small (class of roughly 30) that they have few options for extracurricular activities. Dd is already frustrated by this. It is also cliquish. Dd says everyone is polite, but she is having trouble finding friends who share her interests. The public high school has a long-standing bad reputation because of drugs, alleged gangs, and lousy administrators. It's not a really, really bad school, though: it ranks just above the 50th percentile nationwide on some website I found. It is very significantly larger than the parochial school, has a wide range of extracurriculars (some of which do well in state-wide competitions), and would free up money for dd to pursue other interests. We are investigating whether dd would be able to move straight into the honors program if she chose to attend there. It will also have the same girl in dd's grade, also in the honors program, whose bullying spurred us to start homeschooling in the first place. Dd still has nightmares about this kid. :-( Homeschooling is not an option, for assorted excellent reasons. Any thoughts? ETA: Please don't quote!

I was the sibling-on-the-spot who dealt with my parents' (different) issues as they aged and died. It's a hard job, and in the case of your father sounds harder than usual. I was very grateful when my brother stepped up and took on the duties of executor. As he pointed out, I'd done other things he couldn't. Even though your sister has stepped back for now, if she's geographically closer she may have to do more later. I'd take the executor role, help make your father comfortable now knowing that is dealt with, and do the right thing for all the siblings later. Think of it as giving your father a chance to be his best self posthumously.

I've known the phrase for years but can't actually remember hearing it. I think I may have come across it in books? I think of it as older vernacular, but not with a specific regional association, at least that I'm aware of.

Yes, same here with the BBC. Sadly, this does seem to be our new normal. While the details are horrific, the overall pattern is depressingly familiar and unsurprising. I'm still surprised if major networks weren't covering it.

Some books my dds loved at that age, which are particularly appealing for highly visual kids: A Street Through Time (also A Farm Through Time and a couple of others which are out of print if you can find them) Usborne's Big Book of Picture Puzzles has a section or two on history. Older dd loved, loved, loved this one. Stephen Biesty's Cross-Sections Castle (I think there's a series of these Incredible Cross-Sections, too) For slightly older kids, Macauley's Castle, Cathedral, Mill, Pyramid and City books are great. ETA These aren't curriculum, of course, but the mention of picture books reminded me of them. Dd did absorb an amazing amount from them.

We quit Girl Scouts over this issue. The whole, entire second half of the year revolved around those doggone cookies. The most enthusiastic kid's mom was always cookie mom, and could never understand that not everyone was a budding sales sensation. 4-H is much better for us.

I haven't read the book, but wanted to respond to a couple of points already mentioned. First, about doing everything "right" and still having issues: this has absolutely been our case. Planned, very-much-wanted pregnancies, no alcohol while pregnant, no caffeine, prenatal vitamins, healthy eating, the whole works, and we still have issues. I do see a definite genetic link. Second, even if birth parents have not observed all the "right" rules, I wonder if in some cases they might not be (or have begun by) self-medicating issues which are also essentially genetic. Obviously fetal alcohol syndrome, for example, has long-term consequences for kids, and other prenatal influences do as well. But if we traced the chain back to the birthmother before she ever drank, would we have a larger-than-average chance of finding someone with an underlying neurological issue of her own? Who was probably never identified or given the supports she needed? I don't know, I'm just wondering here. Not suggesting that everyone with a chemical dependency has an unidentified neurological difference, just that if their kids do, they might also. At the same time I would not be at all surprised to find that environmental factors can be very important as well.

We've always used the same baskets, but this year I was thinking they both really need new, practical bicycle baskets. Don't know if I'll actually get any for Easter, we've always kept that pretty simple, with just candy, but maybe I will. I'd like to, just half scared of creating new expectations, lol.

Hugs for all of you. I will be thinking of you.

Okay, CLE sounds like it might be the way to go. I'll try to get her to try the placement test tomorrow. Still interested if anyone else has comments, though.

The conceptual thinking could be an issue, lol, but she did all right with Saxon's explanations in the primary books.

Yes, I guess it's the Adaptations workbooks I was thinking of. It seems to be a choice between those and CLE, as far as I can tell. I looked at the Adaptations samples a couple of years ago when I last debated this question. I think the hints are good. Have you used those, Tiramisu?

Maybe I need to try CLE. Right now we're pulling a lot from an old copy of Defeating Division, though, which is also very clean and white with lots of extra space for writing. The space is great, but dd still can't get through very much in sheer number of problems. I guess I just need to make peace with that fact and pick something and keep plugging along.

Okay, rather than hijacking the other thread I'll start one. Dd11 used Saxon for 2nd and 3rd grades, but it was not a complete success. That's partly dryly humorous understatement, because the torn worksheets and tears were quite spectacular. But it's also an accurate description, because in lots of ways Saxon was a good fit. The small chunks of new information and constant review were perfect. The fact that she didn't need to copy problems out of a textbook was good. The pages didn't bother her visually, except that she could see that there was ssooooo mmuuuuch to ddoooo! We've been trying to manage since then by piecing together different things, and that approach is draining me dry. I need a math curriculum, but what? I have looked at CLE, and it appears to have lessons which are several pages long. There is no way she will do that much in a day. Of course, I could spread them out over several days and accept slower progress. Is there any reason people prefer CLE over Saxon other than the fact that the pages look less cluttered? I could go with the newer Saxon books for the middle grades which are supposed to be geared for slower learners. Anyone have experience with those? Are there other spiral programs I'm overlooking? Thanks!

((Sherra)) I saw your post this morning. I want to respond and try to help you out, but my own background and ideas are so different I'm not sure how much help I can give. First, you clearly identify as a Christian, but just how close your beliefs are now to the way you were raised is not clear. What I'm understanding from your post is that you see that your children need to experience the world of literature and "pretend", but that world still troubles you because of your upbringing. So, essentially, your logical mind sees the need, but you're still uncomfortable. Have I understood correctly? As I said, my background is different, and you may feel I am not the right person to help you. I was raised in a mainstream Protestant church and educated in parochial schools. I suppose I identify more as an agnostic now than anything else. But... Growing up, as a Christian child in Christian schools, I experienced literature as perhaps the greatest joy of my life. No one ever, thank goodness, suggested that pretend things were bad. I think my elementary teachers in a church school would have pointed to the parables as an example of stories told with a purpose. But other sorts of stories are fine too. The God I was taught to know was a loving and ultimately joyful God. Just as exploring his creation was a joyful and worshipful experience, so also exploring the talents he gave us, from mechanical talents to intellectual talents to artistic talents *including the writing of fiction*, was a joyful and worshipful experience. In fact, isn't using our talents well considered a responsibility? Reading, writing, thinking, all are ways of using these gifts. Fiction can be uncomfortable in many ways and for many reasons, but that doesn't make it bad or dangerous. I would suggest that if stories like "Thomas the Tank Engine" seem too intense, perhaps you are still struggling with the fact that the world does include bad things. My knowledge of the sort of religious background you've described is limited, so forgive me if I'm misunderstanding. Did your church suggest that by following a careful path through life you could avoid bad things? I don't believe any of us, however devout, however careful, can avoid normal or sometimes even extraordinarily awful things happening in our lives. Things happen. In Christian terms, original sin exists. One function of stories is to talk about the fact that awful things do happen. We can't always control them. We can control our own responses to them. One normal part of childhood is learning all this, and stories can help. Fairy tales have functioned in this way for centuries, probably millennia. Yes, they involve witches and magic, but I wouldn't worry about that or take them too seriously. They are devices in the story, a means to an end, which is to help children (and adults) learn that bad things happen but people are resilient. Fairy tales, and witches, and magic can also be a lot of fun, and make for a rollicking good story. I think the God I was taught to know appreciates fun, and humor, and laughter, and shivers of apprehension which give way to a satisfying conclusion. I do not believe He is threatened by a fairy-tale witch. If you were denied the chance to experience all this as a child, I'm not surprised that fiction worries you. Do you have a minister now who sees the world in a different way from that in which you were raised? Would it help to talk over the whole matter with him or her? I would also suggest counselling, with a qualified counsellor, if you are open to that. So much anxiety over stories suggests that you haven't yet come to terms with many things which are ordinarily part of the growing-up process. Your childhood church harmed you in this way. I have great respect for the fact that in spite of your discomfort you are trying to do better for your children. Counselling for you can help you "catch up" on this emotional development you may have missed. When you feel ready to read some more fiction, perhaps talking it over with someone you trust would help. I would suggest, instead of Disney and superheroes, read fairy tales in their original versions. Read Grimm and Hans Christian Anderson. Read Uncle Remus, Anansi, and trickster tales. Read tall tales and folk tales. If you're going to expose your children to literature, give them the good stuff, not commercialized, watered-down versions (although those are far better than nothing). Talk about all these with your trusted advisor, and see if you can figure out what the value of each story is. Realize that they may make you anxious, and try to figure out why. Remember we gain strength by confronting bad things in stories, where they can't really hurt us, before we have to confront them in earnest. And remember that it's also valuable to read just for fun and laughter. Before you read any of these, though, read C. S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia, all seven books, all the way through. See if that example of a devout Christian who found great value in stories helps you relax and find joy in them also.

That wood-look tile is gorgeous in the pictures, and I can see lots of potential benefits like easy cleaning. In our case I'm not really that focused on resale; we're (hopefully) here for the long haul. But I've just been through years of looking after elderly parents, many falls and trips to the emergency room, and the years of small kids racing through the house and falling aren't that distant either. So when I'm thinking about modifications to a house we're staying in, on the one hand smooth floors which are continuous between kitchen, dining room, bedrooms etc sound wonderfully accessible, but on the other hand the image of heads hitting ceramic floors is worrying me. I guess heads hitting wood floors don't do too well either, really, lol. For those of you who have lived with these floors, what did you think of the safety angle? Would you be comfortable with children and unsteady elders maneuvering on them?