No, I need to look at the Social Thinking stuff. Oddly enough, the neuropsych said her theory of mind is largely intact. Not perfect, but not so bad. But I suspect under stress that may change, at least in practical terms.

As for the matter of punishing kids for things which are essentially beyond their control, that resonates so strongly with me. I think Ross Green and Kuypers have jointly given me the language and mental framework to process what we've been seeing all along. So, kids do well when they can, and punishments send dd straight to the red zone. She can. not. learn when she is in the red zone, so punishments are not only useless, they are counterproductive. And, as you say, why on earth would we punish kids for a developmental delay? But punishment ("consequences") is exactly what my personal candidate for worst psychologist in the world told us dd needed more of a few years back. The thought of that man sends me into the red zone. Dd sat in his office mute, avoiding his gaze, we brought lengthy documentation about her meltdowns which he didn't read, and he told us there was nothing organic going on. It was just a matter of consistent discipline. So those people are out there, and heaven help the kids whose lives they influence. I really wonder where we'd be in this process if we hadn't wasted time trying to follow his advice. And I worry about the long-term effects of being pushed into the red zone over and over in the name of discipline. We've learned better, and done a complete turnaround, and we are seeing progress, so thank goodness for that.

OhE, my dd is almost 11. I need to go back and read everything you've just written really carefully. I wish I'd signed up for the workshop near me, but couldn't do it this time. I think our BCBA was going: hope she did or will or whatever and gets a lot out of it. I don't think she's been working much on tools; need to check on that. Definitely not checking zones twice/day. She'll be here tomorrow, so I'll find out about that.

We're doing Zones with dd's ABA provider. The jury is still out on effectiveness for us. Dd doesn't have much trouble identifying what zone she's in, but often lacks motivation or probably ability to shift to a more appropriate zone. I hope that may come with time and practice. We're only a few chapters and weeks into the book.

ETA disclaimer: I haven't taken in a child or teen, but I do have a child with multiple diagnoses. I have no experience with what you'd need legally, and much would depend on the diagnoses, but I think I'd want to know that the teen himself was in favor of the plan. I also think I'd need his and his parents' agreement that he would begin counselling immediately if the diagnoses include any sort of mental health concerns. It might be appropriate for family counselling to be included for all of you to help support everyone as he settles in and inevitable stresses occur.

Are you comfortable talking with the teacher and explaining that you're pursuing evaluations? Is she open to trying some other activities which aren't focused on winning and losing? Since physical activity isn't the problem, perhaps she could include fewer win/lose games and more activities which would let kids exercise in other ways if she understands that there are real reasons your ds is having trouble. And, you know, these kids are six, right? I'm not sure perfect compliance is to be expected at that age, special needs or not. I think perhaps the fact that this teacher is new has significance here. She may need to learn to expect a few outliers in a class. I'm trying to remember when my kids were that age... Seems like there were often a few kids with their own agendas/ ideas/ needs.

But regarding the congratulatory ice cream: that would be a surprise, not something to anticipate and possibly fail to achieve.

Yes, exactly! Ice cream trip sorts of things would be impossible for us, for all the reasons you list. Laughing Cat is talking about the sort of thing we have done, small stickers leading to a bigger reward later. For us at the moment, it's two chocolate chips after a row of math problems. If a row is a big challenge, we go down to a chip after two problems, or whatever works. It's really important with this sort of system that the kid experience some success as soon as possible. But it doesn't need to be a huge payoff, and in fact works better if it's a small payoff that leaves them wanting more. For your situation, could the teacher quickly and fairly discretely give ds a sticker on a little chart for each activity he takes part in? Maybe also giving him a private signal that he's earned it and a smile? Then, at the next convenient moment, he gets to show you the chart, get affirmation of how well he did (you took part in three games! Great! I'm so proud of you!) and confirm the reward that's coming (that's three spoonfuls of ice cream when we get home!). If we use ice cream, we're talking teaspoons, by the way. No negative remarks (you only took part in three games!), by the way. For the other kids, you can choose how to approach things. If, as you say, the older kids will understand, great. Explain: "Look, we all love co-op. But ds is having a really hard time with this class. We're trying to find out why, but in the mean time, we need to help him get through it, so we're supporting his efforts." For the little one, if there's something which is hard for him, consider a similar system. Or just let him and everyone share a congratulatory bowl of ice cream when ds gets through the whole class: a "we celebrate each other's successes" model.

My older dd was able to learn and behave based on negative consequences, too. Like your six-year-old, my younger dd was not able to do so. It is indeed a pain. But-- my younger dd was. not. able. to learn with negative consequences. They sent her straight into emotional overdrive. Life got better when we learned to adjust our parenting to her needs and abilities. We switched our approach because we had to, but we ended up preferring rewards to punishments. I understand being reluctant to hand out an endless succession of m&ms, or get sucked into endless negotiation, but as it turned out for us, learning to negotiate was a really positive thing. It helped dd develop flexibility and problem-solving skills which she needed very badly. You are right that using positive reinforcement for one kid and negative for others is not a winning proposition. For us, again, rewards turned out to be good for everyone. Life is just hard enough for kids with extra challenges, and for their siblings and parents too. Rewards help keep the atmosphere positive. My only caveat is that rewards work best for us when they are small and incremental: I wouldn't set up a big reward for getting through the whole PE class, for example, but a small one for each activity ds takes part in. Reward small successes, don't make it an all-or-nothing deal, or in our case we'd be setting dd up for disappointment and a cascade of negative reactions. YMMV. And, like Tibbie said, co-ops wouldn't have worked for us, certainly not if a teacher couldn't be flexible (and I can sympathize with the stresses teachers face). But thankfully homeschooling does allow flexibility. Good luck, and hugs. It's hard adjusting when one child has different needs from what you are accustomed to and expect.

Oh, boy, can I relate to this! The leaning, the hugging, the picking up, the coming-up-from-behind-and-grabbing-as-surprise. In dd's group of peers this was normal and appropriate during 1st and 2nd grade. After that she started to stand out a bit, and I helped her see that her friend was expressing discomfort with it. Dd still, at nearly eleven, does this with anyone with whom she feels really comfortable and relaxed. When I've seen it with a friend recently the friend has seemed somewhat surprised, tolerant and a bit amused. I do see it all as a sensory sort of thing and as an outlet for strong emotions.

I would definitely use the times when he is less stressed to work on this. With my dd, when she is stressed and rigid, I define flexibility as just not getting into a pitched battle, but letting herself take some time, calm down, and discuss things later. Between ourselves, dh and I refer to dd's "bucket" overflowing. When she's had all the stress she can take, and her bucket is overflowing, she can't hold/learn any more. When she isn't so stressed, she can learn. We have intentionally talked a lot with her about how a range of options is usually available, and we have actively encouraged and rewarded negotiating skills and compromise. Note that my dd is almost eleven. We still are working at this, but it is getting better. When she was five we did not have a diagnosis, and I'd have done a lot differently if I'd understood what we were dealing with. But when she was five we were reading The Explosive Child and practicing those techniques: empathizing first, stating what the child wants [tension might start going down at this point if we were lucky], then explaining what our needs were and asking for help solving the problem. We still use this technique, in fact. It has helped a lot. I think kbutton is right that at five, and with siblings including a new baby, there will be plenty of times to practice this. I'd actually be focusing on providing as much of the calm snuggly time as possible, and talking about how good this feels, and how we can choose to do things to feel calm and good: teaching how to reduce stress, because then you can teach other things, like flexibility.

Can I just say how much I appreciate all this information? Dh is going to have this surgery at the beginning of December, and we've been wondering about a lot of details. This will really help us plan.

I've been thinking about Rach and Pen's points, which I appreciate. I can completely see that giving the dog attention could be a reinforcer, and I hadn't considered that. As for the escape problem itself... I grew up in a house with two hounds who loved to run, so I get that. :-) We had the backyard with cinder blocks at the base of the fence, to help stop digging, and every once in a while we'd have to stop up a new hole. When my mom opened the front door, there was this big routine of "Keep the dogs back! Grab their collars!" It was a known risk, so it was a Big Deal, from my very earliest memories, but still sometimes one would slip out. Then it was "grab the leash! Let's go!" And we'd pile in the car and drive around calling. So this is my perspective. Known risks become priorities. But I totally get the kids and screen doors bit, we've had that issue, just going into the (fenced) yard in our case. And none of us can judge how hard managing things might be for another family. In this case the dog is far from elderly and definitely not averse to paved roads, and it is quite happy to run around. There is no fence which would prevent it from reaching the busy road. Taking the dog to the shelter is a bit of a pain, so I'm not eager to do it again. My thought had been that it is in danger and the owners might prioritize its needs more if the shelter was involved. I've had to stop for a couple of long breaks while writing this, so forgive me if it's getting disjointed. One final piece of my own perspective: I do know what it's like to be the loving dog owner who can't afford a good fence. When I was just out of grad school I had a greyhound mix who slipped out a few times. That dog could *run*. I'd be calling and chasing and all she wanted was to run. Well, the last time, a car got her before I could. Not the driver's fault. She was greased lightning, no way he could avoid her. So I guess my priority is the dog's safety.

Yes, the shelter is absolutely no-kill. It's one I used to volunteer at, and has a very good local reputation.

You know, upon consideration, what bugs me most about this situation is that we've never seen the owners out hunting for the dog when it was loose. When the kids returned it a couple of times they said the owners were nonchalant: kind of appreciative, but not really worked up about the fact that it had been running loose. If we see the dog out again I think we'll head back to the shelter (where the employees greeted us with "Oh, is that Dog'sname again?").

I am so sorry for what you are facing, and like others I am outraged that the VA has not been more helpful and that you were pressured to assume your father's care by the psychiatrist. Last year I went through variations on this scenario with my parents. Delusions or hallucinations can be incredibly hard to deal with, and I would not attempt to manage that in my home. The emotional exhaustion of terminal illness is enough, more than enough, without trying to live full-time with someone you love who is experiencing delusions. My mother thought, at one point, that she was several stories underground in a building that was about to collapse. She sometimes thought she was being held prisoner. She was sometimes physically aggressive. The pain and anguish you are facing is hard enough. Trying to manage delusions yourself is too much, I think, for almost anyone. They can be emotionally overwhelming to witness as well as physically dangerous. At a nursing home or hospital caregivers can go home at the end of their shift. They can be better caregivers because they have time off. Trying to cope at home means you have no time off. It also means your whole family is subjected to the constant emotional strain. I hope someone, maybe the hospital social workers, can help you get your father the care he needs. (((((((((Hugs))))))))

Even though the main dinosaur exhibit is closed at Natural History, there's a smaller dinosaur exhibit which we enjoyed this summer. We always like the Gems and Minerals exhibit, and the kids particularly enjoyed the Mammals also.

Thanks to everyone for helping me feel a bit better about this. We dropped the dog off at the shelter. I think this is the safest thing we could do for her, and I hope the owners can think things through and figure out a good solution.

No, the dog is not aggressive, it's quite sweet. I suspect they are just letting it out and assuming it will be right back, since no one is ever out calling for it. It may usually go right back in but occasionally wander, or it may be escaping.

A dog who lives about a block away has repeatedly turned up running loose around our house. Within the last year my kids have walked it home twice, we saw another neighbor pick it up once, and the kids say they've seen it on other occasions as well. Within the past month the dog turned up again, and no one was home at its home. We left a message and held on to it for a couple of hours but had to go out and had no safe place to leave it away from our own dog, so we dropped it off at the local well-run no kill shelter. It has tags, so I knew they could get in touch with the owners. I explained the situation to the shelter personnel, who said we did the right thing to bring it in. I felt a bit bad about turning it in but also hoped the owners might take containing the dog safely a bit more seriously if they had to pick it up from the shelter. I don't know what fees they might face to collect it. So, this morning, while I was walking our dog, the other dog turned up running loose again. My animal-loving kids are incensed at the idea of returning it to its owners again, and we are leaning toward simply taking it straight to the shelter this time without trying to take it home first. Would this be reasonable, or am I veering toward busybody territory? I don't want to make enemies in the neighborhood. The dog lives two blocks from a very busy road. So far it has turned up running in the other direction, but of course it could go toward the road. I feel a bit guilty going straight to the shelter. I know good fences are expensive, not all dogs take well to crates, etcetera. But I don't want to see this dog get hit one day. So am I an interfering so-and-so if I just take it to the shelter without trying to contact the owners?

Insurance, lol. I wish. Insurance will cover no ABA, no in-home therapy through the agency that does this and ABA, just regular therapy. We haven't had much luck finding a therapist they'll cover who has much experience with ASD. Maybe it's time to start investigating that again. I'll ask about CBT.

Thank you, SporkUK and kbutton. You've given me a lot to think about. I need to look into MindUp. I do remember reading about it and thinking it sounded good. Right now the BCBA has my Zones book, and since she was receptive I think I'll let her work with it if I'm not really asking her to do something outside her proper area. If she does it, that frees up my time to work some with my older dd, which is important. Kbutton, you are right that there is usually an emotional background for the outbursts, though really little stuff is the final trigger. One big problem is sibling interactions. Older dd is 13, complete with eye rolls and occasional attitude. She also has a very big backlog of grievances based on dd10's behavior over the years. Her sense of outrage is based on real, valid complaints, and she's not really mature enough to move past that. She's getting her own professional help, but it's a long journey. So not always, but very often, it's a sibling issue that escalates. Dd10 sees her sister's eyes roll, and her response is disproportionate. And the BCBA has told dd13 that remaining emotionally neutral is the best way to help her sister calm down, but dd13 feels resentful over years of issues, and feels justified in expressing her emotions, even if dd10 is about to boil over. I think the issue of having a limited ability to classify and identify signals like the eye roll comes into it. Like you said, she knows it's negative, but she has a hard time judging the degree of negativity, or assigning causes, or putting it aside as "Sis is in a bad mood." And as you said lots of things look like anger to your son, what I see in my dd is a limited range of emotions *in herself*-- so she reacts with full-fledged anger instead of annoyance, say.

Thanks, Lecka. I need to ponder this. I'm not sure if ABA is focused on what we need, or if it really is more in the mental health realm. The BCBA and her assistant-- I forget the proper acronym-- have both developed good relationships with dd, and they are willing to adjust what they do. We don't have other agencies that seem like a good choice, but there might be better providers within the agency. I guess I just wasn't sure if I was asking them to do something that would be better done by another type of professional.

Does anyone have experience with this? Dd10's greatest needs are in the realm of emotional control and frustration tolerance. Her BCBA started out doing lots of social skills games and working on things like looking people in the eye and asking reciprocal questions. All nice, but icing on the cake compared to not melting down over small stressors. I've asked them if they can focus more on the emotional regulation stuff, but they don't seem to have much.... I'm not sure.... experience? Nothing in their bag of tricks for this. I gave the BCBA my copy of Zones of Regulation, which she did not know. At first she said it was more mental health than ABA, then she read more and said she thought they could use it and she liked it. They haven't started yet, though. I also suggested coming up with a "fire drill" dd could practice for when she started to get angry. The BCBA liked that idea, they've been doing it, and I think it's helping. But I feel like I'm the one trying to steer them toward what we need, and it's not something they are instigating. And, for this, we are paying $$$$. So am I asking them for something which is outside their expertise? Is this not what ABA does? What does ABA typically look like for kids who can function fairly well in society? Is it usually the social skills stuff? We may get (I hope) to the point that that's my biggest concern, but we're not there now. And the notebook and charts! I'm feeling very bad at this, because I'm supposed to note every time dd, for example, is gentle with the dog. But she's gentle with the dog maybe 1,000 times a day, ordinarily every time she interacts with him. It's only once in a blue moon when she is not gentle, somewhere between once a week and once a month, but those times, when she is angry, are the problem. Do you keep on noting constant good behavior? There are lots of things like this. Good behavior is the rule, not the exception, and noting each instance seems ridiculous. But the meltdowns do occur, and the cranky rudeness, so they do need addressing. How does this work?

The houses are already in foreclosure, right? So, chances are very good that someone will be evicting those tenants, whether it is you or not. Will you have the flexibility to give them some time to make new arrangements?