Yes, she's hoping to do that with math.

I don't think we'd typically have eight subjects per year in the traditional system, though. I remember it as pretty much four years of English, math, history, science, and a foreign language: 4 x 5. Though some kids would only take three years of math, or two or three of a foreign language, and those "spaces" left room for electives.

Okay, thanks, I'm glad to hear that. My biggest concern is just skills not being taught for, essentially, 2/3 of the year. I can see handling content subjects this way more easily, somehow. But I'm glad this can work well.

Any experiences you want to share? Dd14 has just had her orientation for 9th grade at public school. We apparently didn't fully understand what they meant by block scheduling when we registered her last spring. They do four courses per semester, each meeting for ninety minutes each day, Monday through Friday. But this means that, once gym and electives are added into the mix, core subjects like math and English aren't taught to each student each semester. Even with foreign languages, there seems to be no guarantee that a student will receive two consecutive semesters of instruction, though the teacher said they try to do that. So dd has no English in her schedule. Second semester courses won't be assigned until much later, so she can't tell if she'll be able to have math all year, or just the first semester. She also can't tell if she'll be able to have any science, or if she'll be able to continue her foreign language. I know college courses only run for a semester, so maybe this will be fine. But I'm worried that, in this model, skills like writing and math end up only being taught for one semester out of the entire year. Is this adequate? I mean, obviously, some students will do fine and others will really need year-round instruction. But it seems inadequate to me. I think, in high school, those skills are still being learned, and the needs are fundamentally different from college students' needs. How do they have enough time to cover a year's worth of material, and enough practice to really cement skills? Can one really cover, say, as much English lit in one semester as one can in a year? Can one really write as many papers? Or retain as much math if they only have math from September through December, and then not any more until next September? Please tell me this is really going to work. :-( (Actually, please just tell me what you think and have experienced.)

Yes, we're doing it with an 11 year old dd. It has been very helpful.

You might want to move on to Freckles, and check out Gene Stratton-Porter's other books. I went through a long phase of hunting out her books. :-)

In my own experience, once the shutdown happens, we pretty much need to wait it out. Here it's a reaction to stress. It's a physiological response, not volitional. So the key is avoiding it to begin with, and it sounds like you're on the right track there. The best answer I've found is to make sure my dd experiences success early and often. Talking a lot about how mistakes are part of learning and to be expected is a longer-term strategy. I try to talk out loud about my own mistakes, the fact that they can be frustrating, but also demonstrating that they aren't the end of the world. It sounds like you're volunteering in a classroom, rather than the parent of this child? I hope he's had full evaluations. It's possible to address this more systematically, but might involve behavioral therapy or medication to help lower the anxiety. I hate to think of a kid continuing to experience failure across all his classes in the way you describe.

The Gregor Demarkian mystery series tends to be focused on specific seasons.

She sounds like a fantastic kid with lots of strong skills. When I asked about her interests for the future, I guess I was following the same thought process I have with my own dd. There are so many choices about where to put time and energy, and it's impossible to do all the therapy, all the academic work, all the social skills training that I'd like. So I'm constantly making choices which are grounded on an understanding of what she's most likely to need. And I'm second-guessing myself constantly. So questions like "does she need to be on a college-prep path, or is vocational school going to be more appropriate?" are very much in the forefront of my mind, and they inform my decisions about whether to spend time on, say, writing history papers, or on volunteering in a work setting connected to her special interest instead. You don't need to provide that sort of information here, but that's the thought process I'd follow in trying to decide whether to keep on struggling with spelling. I'd also probably be wanting a firm diagnosis if there was any chance of getting it and if it might open doors to help. Many, many hugs and best wishes.

...poof... As for ABA, I don't know about qualifying for it without a firm diagnosis-- that does add a wrinkle. But have you tried googling your location with "ABA", or asking your pediatrician for a referral? (Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious and you've done all this; it's just how we got connected). We made contact with the ABA provider first, and they were very familiar with the FAPT system for securing funding. No one else had mentioned FAPT to me. I'm sure there are variations by county, but it might be worth a try.

Yeah, my dd11 is pretty much there, too, with the clear career goals, lol. Her standard answer is "I dunno." ;-) I was hoping maybe there'd be a path indicated that would let you say that spelling wasn't going to be a huge need for her. No real ideas, then, but lots of sympathy. Speech to text sounds like a good thing to investigate.

Does she have ideas about what she'd like to do as an adult? Any goals?

Zombie thread

Alexander McCall Smith's No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency series, if you aren't already familiar with these. Eta: the mysteries are not the important part here, but rather the good humor and kindliness of the protagonist. For pure humor, though they aren't precisely uplifting, look at E. F. Benson's Mapp and Lucia series. They're just wickedly funny in a vintage English way.

Yes, anxiety is a huge factor in all this. But, while I do know my girl, I don't know what is best. That's why I post! All the ideas are so very helpful, including different perspectives. So please don't hesitate to offer a different view. :-)

Such a good point: I remember hating activities like that too. Yes, preferred activities are much better tolerated. We may just need to do the direct social skills instruction ourselves.

Extinction bursts. Hmm. I'd been thinking of that behavior as an indication that she really *couldn't* handle what I was asking of her, not as an indication that she could but I needed to keep gently pushing. I'll talk to the BCBA, thanks. And, in a complete non-coincidence, I've got Temple Grandin's new book about The Loving Push being delivered next week. I'm looking forward to that. Thanks for the ideas and the tough love. I can sure use both.

Canadian Mom, you are so right about her being an introvert. She does do much better in small groups. I think I need to balance a predominance of those, and groups that align with her interests, with occasional larger groups to practice coping with those a bit.

OhE, you're probably right about the frequency. It intimidates me, though, because I'm not kidding about the irritability that results from too much social stress. Don't you think at some point you have to say, okay, this is enough stress for this kid and this family to handle? And judging that finely enough, so you're encouraging social growth without leading to overload, is an art. This week we've been in overload, and it's hard on everyone. ABA has been very good for us, as I mentioned on that thread on the chat board recently. We are using our behaviorist to work on the stuff, and trying to mix it up, go places, do more. I'm looking into other opportunities. Actually as I think this through you've got me convinced we need to work on this more. She's been doing so.well. at home and with adults that I'd kind of forgotten this extra dimension until this social skills class showed me how far we still have to go.

There are some good books which might help. Have you seen The Out-Of-Sync Child?

There are people here with more experience than I have in sensory issues, but I think your ped is not well informed. Sensory issues can certainly change over time. And if the poor kid is having meltdowns over getting dressed to go out, and having issues with her car seat, of course that affects her outside the house. I would not accept his contention that there is no neurological basis. Can you see a different ped or press for at least an OT evaluation?

You've all given me lots to consider; thank you so much. Trying to answer some points: there are only two groups of this sort available in our area, and this one is the only one which has had girls involved. During the school year it will be a bit smaller and more limited by age, but there will be a lot of the same kids involved. The instructor who is very experienced was not involved during the summer, leaving much younger colleagues in charge. I think supervision and guidance were perhaps a bit lacking. If I encourage dd to try this again, I'm going to communicate with the experienced leader first and see if we can set up a way to ease her in. At the moment, though, I think I'm going to respect her wishes not to return. I've told dd that I just want her in some regular activity with other kids. I'll accept an art class or dance class or whatever. Her preferred activity has kids in it, but not with much interaction between them, if that makes sense. She says she'd rather just hang out with neighborhood kids at the playground, but there tend to be a lot of negative interactions there. She comes home frequently feeling really irritated by those kids too. So I'd like to have her in some setting where she can practice interactions with some guidance. OhE, I'll look into those videos. We've just started trying to watch tv for social situations to discuss. I do not think the social skills group kids' skills were behind dd's. If anything, they were doing better: they were friendly and willing to interact, lol, and she sure wasn't. I think she was just uncomfortable and they didn't realize she needed some space. I wouldn't expect them to understand that. Somebody made the point that maybe the group was too cohesive already, and I think that was on target. I think the young leaders were maybe too comfortable assuming that all the kids felt safe and happy to be there. Crimson, if that's how your dd handles these situations, I think I'm jealous, lol. Not really, of course. But my gosh, how nice that she's a happy, outgoing kid. I was just really startled, because it's not what I'm used to. We have defensiveness, massive irritation and anger, not always, but in social situations which provoke anxiety. In activities based around her interests things are much better. I'm going to go think this through and try to digest all the ideas you've given me.

Thanks, guys. I'm running around today but will be back later. I appreciate the ideas.

I'm debating what to do here, and will be talking with the professionals involved. Dd11 is doing really well with one-on-one interactions with adults, but has more difficulty with kids her own age. She can get overly enthusiastic and huggy or be very easily irritated. With kids she doesn't know well and trust, it's usually irritation. We signed her up for a social-skills class. It is aimed at kids on the spectrum, and has a good local reputation. She did not want to go, but I'd hoped as she relaxed and settled in she'd have fun. Alas, she hates it. The other kids irritate her. They all seem to love the class, several having been involved for previous sessions, and they're pushing her to participate. They ask the instructors why she's scowling. They get too close. Well, they're all on the spectrum, too. So she's been attending reluctantly but willingly, but after last night says she's done, no more. I think if the other kids would just accept that she's not thrilled to be there and leave her alone, she might adjust with time, but that isn't happening. So I'm debating all sorts of things. This class seemed like a better fit than the only other one available locally. I still don't think she'd do well there. She does do well in a 4-H group geared around her special interest, but it only meets once a month. We really need to get in more time with other kids. There are no other activities she's interested in pursuing which would put her in a group of kids. Scouts was much like this present group: highly irritating. When she was in school, same deal. When she meets a bunch of kids at the playground, same deal. So, assuming the instructors are willing for her to continue, and assuming I can get her there, would you push to keep her going for the sake of direct social skills instruction? I'm even debating how important being able to function in a group of kids is. Eventually she'll need to cope with at least small groups of adult peers, most of whom will probably have a greater sense of boundaries than the kids in this class do. And if she does need or want to return to school at some point, which I think could be important in high school, she needs to be able to cope. I'm not sure what percentage of her discomfort is due to each of the contributing factors: lots of kids, physical proximity, noise (she hasn't mentioned this, but there's a lot), unfamiliar people and environment, the activities. She complains about the kids themselves and how they get in her space and push her to participate. And I'm fascinated by the fact that the other kids are so happy to be there, even the ones new to this. I'd thought reluctance in this situation was a normal thing for a kid on the spectrum. Those kids are cheerful and outgoing, if awkward. Comments? Ideas?

How awful. I'm so sorry.