OP, your description of your DD is exactly like my DS. I highly recommend IEW's Student Writing Intensive. (Not the TWSS if it confuses you.) It will give both you and your DD lots of hand-holding and clear, step by step lessons, but you will need to be involved. Lots and lots of threads to explain it. IEW changed our world, really. Turned my anti-writing DS into a writer who believes he is good at it and can enjoy it. I've never used Writer's Jungle, but I've looked at it, and *I* need more hand-holding and open-and-go than it provides. Also, is your DD learning to type? Learning that skill also made a huge difference for my DS.

I was thinking the same thing. The reading isn't too intense, includes labs, includes worksheets to fill out. Seems to fit the bill for the OP. Just choose whatever level seems to fit his reading level and science interest. Can be independent except for some labs, open and go, with a schedule, answer key & materials list included. The books are mostly all quite engaging if the kid is interested in science and the Discover and Do companion DVDs are very good.

Interesting. Maria Miller, the author of Math Mammoth wrote this on the page linked in the OP: "I have always felt the long lists of standards was the wrong way to go, as it causes teachers and curricula to teach many, many multitudes of topics with shallowness. CCS is bringing some saneness to this situation. There are now fewer standards per grade, allowing more focus on certain topics and themes, thus hopefully allowing for true mastery, instead of teachers hurrying through the topics and passing kids to the next grade without them mastering the math." I've been impressed by Ms. Miller's commitment and diligence with her curriculum in the past. It seems apparent to me that *SHE* has actually read and analyzed the CC standards, as part of implementing them in *HER* curriculum.

I think any of your three plans would work very well and all are solid. I can see your reasoning with each of them. My DS is forming strong opinions about presentation style and format in his books. He detests chatty, wordy texts (and he thinks Hakim and Apologia both fall in that category but of course different people like different styles and some people love those two). He inhales science encyclopedias because he just wants to get to the important stuff with little fluff. (FWIW, we LOVE Elemental Science and McHenry, and plan to use both of them throughout middle school alongside CPO or Holt textbooks.) Middle school science doesn't have to be so intense. Preserve the love of science. You'll hit the heavy stuff in high school. Perhaps you could lay out all three of your plans, go through each one with samples thoroughly with your DS, and let him choose what style of learning *HE* wants?

Have you looked at Garlic Press guides? I recommend those. Lightning Lit is also mentioned often.

Arcadia, your google skills are awesome!!! I love it when you post - always very helpful! Thank you for sharing!!!!!

You can see the documents on their "try before you buy" page: http://www.pandiapress.com/?page_id=20 Biology 2 is at the bottom of the page.

Thanks for posting this. I've seen books by that author, Suzanne Strauss Art, previously. . . but I had forgotten about them. Someone else on this board also highly recommended them. The author has written several about ancient times, and also a couple about the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Books by Suzanne Strauss Art

Are you set on doing physics next year? Just a thought, but you might want to also consider using the logic stage level of ES instead of the grammar stage. The encyclopedia spines used for logic stage are probably more appropriate for your soon to be 5th grader. The ES author includes tips in the logic stage TMs on how to incorporate or adjust the program for a younger sibling tagging along. Logic stage physics hasn't been released yet (scheduled for spring 2014), but earth/space and biology for logic stage are available, and chem for logic stage is scheduled for release this spring.

Has your DS read The Ranger's Apprentice series? My DS also really likes Alex Rider, and Ranger's Apprentice is a huge hit with him as well.

I think your plan looks great! Not to overload what looks like a pretty full schedule, but do you have anything in mind for vocab or grammar? Maybe he's ready for a break from those, though, while you work on other things? BTW - I hope your DS likes IEW. My DS made a complete turnaround in his attitude toward writing as well as his skill level, after doing SWI-B.

Thank you for taking the time to post this. This is why I joined the WTM community. I love hearing from those like you who are doing so well on this journey and are willing to share your experiences. It really helps! Thank you!

Hake grammar, Wordly Wise vocab, and Elemental Science (logic stage) linked in my sig are all used pretty independently by my DS10. We're continuing all of them next year, meaning that he likes them, and I think he's learning and retaining with them. :coolgleamA: Maybe that gives you some ideas for your older two. History Odyssey might work well also. Or Sonlight's history, if they enjoy reading a lot. Sonlight's science can be mostly independent at 4th & 6th grade and could combine them also. Just choose whatever level interests them or they haven't had much exposure to yet. I don't know if your kids are learning/want to learn Spanish, but I highly recommend Visual Link Spanish (also in my sig) if you don't have access to a live tutor. DS loves Visual Link and does it every day. Sorry, I don't have any helpful tips for your youngest. Hopefully bumping you up will get others to chime in. Hugs and good luck to you!

Sweet! I've been wanting to see inside these books. Thank you for sharing!

FWIW, you may already know this, or you may not be planning to use Elemental Science again after logic stage biology, but I just wanted to mention that the Kingfisher Enc. is also one of the main spines in the logic stage earth science and astronomy course. (We're planning that one for next year.) Logic stage chem and physics haven't been released yet, but I'm hoping that Paige continues the trend of using the Kingfisher again in those courses as well. It definitely helps when the same book can be used more than once! I never thought a child of mine would enjoy encyclopedias for science - it's not what I would have chosen for him - but DS loves them! :)

We use ES logic biology also. The DK Encyclopedia of Nature and the Kingfisher are listed as the required reading sources and are the only two books we use. The other books are just suggested for additional reading. Amanda is correct - the Kingfisher is a higher reading level than Usborne. And I agree, using both Usborne and Kingfisher is probably redundant for most people. We happen to also own Usborne, but my DS10 prefers Kingfisher because Usborne is "too choppy" and "not enough details" (his words).

You may have seen this before, but I really like SWB's advice on literary analysis: http://www.welltrain...en-to-teach-it/

We just use the student workbook and the answer key. Answer key is definitely not required, I could do without it, but I appreciate it for saving time, especially at the higher vocab levels. The student workbook contains plenty and DS is mostly independent with it, so I've never felt the need for a TM. You should be able to get workbook plus answer key for $15 or less depending where you buy. ETA: DS also uses the free website wordlywise3000.com every week for free reinforcement activities, a.k.a. online games, based on that week's lesson. He likes it. He has asked to continue WW for next year.

Yes, you're right! I didn't look in detail at the physical science book used by Kolbe, since I knew we weren't ready for it yet. Sorry, I thought I was being helpful but I just made it worse! For others who may read this, Kolbe schedules Holt's Concepts in Action high school physical science text in 8th/9th grade, which apparently requires algebra. But here is Holt's middle school physical science text. :blushing: I updated my original post for future readers.

I haven't used them, but Kolbe uses these books for middle school. I found this helpful info recently on their website. Physical science requires concurrent enrollment in algebra (or algebra completed previously). Looks like the sequence of life before earth, or earth before life doesn't matter, just personal preference, and neither one of them is math-dependent. HTH. ETA: For others who may read this, Kolbe schedules Holt's Concepts in Action high school physical science text in 8th/9th grade, which apparently requires algebra. But here is Holt's middle school physical science text.

ES logic stage bio and earth are available. Logic chem is scheduled for spring 2013 and physics spring 2014, according to the website. Can't wait!!!

I'm thinking about it a lot lately as well. I bought WWS over a year ago, and every time I think about starting it, I decide DS still isn't at the optimum level of readiness. I think he could do the work now, but what I'm reading and learning here on the boards is that he'll benefit even more from it later. I don't always think later is better than earlier, but I'm starting to lean that way with this particular thing. Hmmm . . . . Thank you for posting this and for the discussion, ladies.

LOL, I'm not sure I'm solving anything, but I'm glad you find it helpful! I've never seen Analytical Grammar and don't know anything about it. Hopefully someone else can help you there. We are using Hake Grammar this year (we don't do the writing portion). Hake Grammar is often mentioned here on the boards as a secular alternative to Rod & Staff. (SWB recommends R&S in WTM.) Hake is very spiral in nature, thorough, solid, includes diagramming, not exciting, not colorful. My DS hated spiral review in math, but he likes it in grammar. Even so, I usually have him skip every other review question in Hake. Looking ahead, it seems that Hake repeats the same concepts every year, but goes into more depth and uses more detailed examples in the lessons as you go up in the levels. You can see Hake samples on the author's website in my signature. Prior to Hake, we used Easy Grammar, which I also liked a lot, but my DS seems to need more thorough review than EG provides, plus EG doesn't teach diagramming, which I wanted. Your DC, going into 6th grade, and coming out of FLL4, could probably easily move into Hake level 6, but check the samples and TOC to be sure.

IMO, no. I think most people do well with either TWSS OR SWI. You don't really need both unless you are very uncomfortable teaching writing. TWSS teaches you how to teach your students and then you teach them on your own. SWI includes the hardcopy student and teacher pages along with DVDs of the instructor Andrew Pudewa teaching to a classroom of kids, so he does the teaching to your students as they watch. We did SWI without TWSS and I just watched the video lessons along with DS. IEW came out with TWSS first, to instruct teachers on how to teach from their own source materials. I guess more people wanted more hand-holding than that (kind of like SWB's complete writer hardback vs. the WWE workbooks), so they later came out with the SWIs that include the teaching as well as all the source materials you will need to do the lessons. You can search for Andrew Pudewa videos on YouTube to see if you like his teaching/presentation style, before you buy anything.

I agree! We didn't use ES at the elementary level, but the logic level has been a great fit for us. If your DC don't enjoy science encyclopedias, obviously it won't be a good fit and you should look elsewhere. The beauty of ES for us is that it is flexible, organized, thorough, solid. Love that it is based on respected, widely-published, secular encylopedias. Includes labs and WTM-based. It's so challenging to find reliable non-textbook science curricula, but ES materials (and Ellen McHenry's materials) are our favorites by far. We have ES logic stage biology and earth science, and will be buying chem and physics.