First, I want to link you up to a great thread currently active over on the General board. Some experienced users are talking about some of the strengths of IEW over there (as well as using it before or with WWS). Perhaps if you ask there you'll get some additional helpful answers from those who've used it extensively. Also, I would suggest using the Teaching Writing Structure & Style DVD set (teaches you how to teach it) or the appropriate-level Student Writing Intensive with the Structure & Style Overview DVD, or at least the Structure & Style Overview DVD by itself (can be purchased on the website for $10), before doing any (or, in your case, doing any more) of the theme sets. You'll get the most out of the program that way. I know the theme sets are cheaper, but the actual program can be really wonderful if it is a good fit for your DC, and I consider it money very well spent. Writing is so important. I'll skimp on other subjects to get the best writing curriculum I can find. :001_smile:

Thank you for this thread and for sharing your thoughts on IEW and WWS. We used WWE and intended to go straight to WWS but I found a detour was necessary. So we jumped to IEW this year and it was exactly what DS needed, and I'm planning on WWS next year. It has been SO helpful to read the thoughts of those who have used both IEW and WWS successfully! I love these boards and those of you who so willingly and graciously share your advice! Thank you!

You could look at: Rod & Staff (skip the writing) - great program but we wanted secular Hake Grammar (skip the writing) - we went w/ this due to spiral review and includes diagramming Easy Grammar (add Daily Grams if you want more review) - also great but doesn't teach diagramming Growing With Grammar - but it wasn't "enough" for us looking ahead at middle school levels

Just as another option, Wordly Wise 3000 workbooks are quite similar to Sadlier-Oxford, and you can buy the WW TMs with no hassle, from all the usual book sources. I looked at both programs and decided to go with WW just because I liked the format better than SO, plus the TM issue. My DS works mostly independently with WW. Includes roots, vocab in context, plenty of practice, reading comprehension, SAT/ACT prep in higher levels, critical thinking activities, etc. You can see samples of WW workbooks here. All the word lists by level are available here (just click on students), as well as free online reinforcement activities (vocab games). ETA: In my state, homeschoolers do not register with anyone and there is no paperwork to file, so I have no documentation that would satisfy SO's requirements. Those types of requirements are frustrating.

In addition to the info PP's have given you, there is also the option of buying a new SWI set that now comes with a 2 hour and 20 minute parent DVD called Structure and Style Overview (included for free with a new SWI set or separately for $10 here). After viewing that, you may not feel like you need any more teaching instruction for yourself. Or if you need more, then you can go back and get the full 10 hour TWSS set new or find it used. Also, look for Andrew Pudewa videos on YouTube - there are lots of them. View some samples so you can see if you and your student will respond well to his style. He has kinda goofy humor sometimes, which my DS really likes but some kids may not. Finally, one more tidbit I can add is that if you find a set of SWI DVDs on the used market, you can always buy a full, newly updated packet of student pages from IEW. It has all the student handouts and weekly lesson plans for only $10 as a download here, or you can get a printed set that includes the binder for $19. (It can take a little digging on the website to find these goodies.) IEW comes with lots of options. It seems overwhelming at first, but it is nice to have choices once you get familiar with it!

Not a curriculum, but maybe you'd find these downloadable discussion guides from their website helpful.

Light, supplemental, some bits of humor on the part of the host. Not a full history program. Still very enjoyable and we think worth the time to watch.

You're welcome. And I agree! It will definitely be a ramping up process for us too.

I don't know if this will help, but I had copied the following SWB instructions into my advice/tips notebook quite a while ago. I can't find a link to the exact source now, but my notes say her advice is if you're using WWS, you should expect to add only the following as writing across the curriculum: "If using WWS, just add one outline (history or science), one narration (history or science) and one literary analysis per week."

We alternate between Logic Liftoff and Connections, also by Bonnie Risby. We started out with Connections - Intermediate but it was a little too tough for my DS, so I'm saving it for next year and doing Connections - Beginning for now. It's all grid puzzles.

I don't have any experience with EIW, but we do use Hake and like it a lot as a grammar program. We don't use the writing portion of Hake, just the grammar portion. I think there are much better options out there for writing. The writing portion of Hake would be a poor fit here as it looks dry and uninspiring, and it feels to me like just an add-on to the grammar portion. (The grammar textbook is over 500 pages for grade 5, for example, while the writing portion of the student workbook is just under 100 pages.) I've seen others here on the board who use the writing portion and like it just fine though. If I recall correctly, the student workbook (which contains the entirety of the writing portion) was less than $5, so you could just get it and look it over for yourself to see if you want to use it. It is accurate that Hake includes dictation, vocabulary and journaling, but they are pretty minor as far as time spent and content. We don't rely on Hake for vocabulary, for example. We use a separate vocabulary program. Hake is written to the student. My DS is pretty independent with it and only comes to me occasionally if he gets stumped with something, so there's not much explaining for the parent to do. Hake is very spiral (like Saxon math, if you're familiar with that) and very thorough. It comes with tests. My DS is allowed to write in the textbook, so there's very little physical handwriting, mostly circle this, underline that, etc., but his retention is excellent. I am very pleased with it. Hope you get more feedback about the writing curriculum!

I wish we had a good co-op around here. I'd settle for good, wouldn't even have to be great. If most co-ops were good, they'd be a lot more popular! You're very fortunate! ETA - Most of the things I can think of as my "best things" have already been mentioned. I'd also add: teaching DS to type at a young age, and getting him a trampoline to burn off the excess energy in a short amount of time.

I've never been able to successfully plan more than one week at a time either. We're required to do a certain number of days per year as well. Our sick days get made up on the weekend or a holiday break or tacked on to the end of the year. Field trip days don't count as school days unless the 3Rs also get done that day. As homeschoolers we don't get snow days because there's no snow inside to impede our commute to the school room. (We do get to enjoy hot cocoa and watch the snow fall outside the window while we study.) :laugh:

Bumping for you. I've used Elemental Science biology but not at the elementary level. There is a very generous 27 page sample linked on the ES website for the elementary level biology in case you haven't seen it. Sorry, I've never used the other curriculum you mentioned. ETA - Elemental Science is considered secular. Not sure if that's what you're looking for.

LOL! I'm the same way about watching bugs (and snakes) while I'm eating! :laugh:

We are fortunate to have Netflix streaming, Amazon streaming, and the ability to stream YouTube to our TV. We almost always watch a documentary during our ~ 30 minute lunch break, typically getting through one-half of a film one day and finishing the next day. I put "lunch & learn" on DS10's assignment checklist, so even though I consider them optional, they get watched as part of our daily routine. We also watch them on weekends some if we're at home and the weather is too cold or rainy to be outside. We don't watch much of anything else on TV. ETA - I have lots of titles saved in our "queues" and a list to coordinate with what we're studying in order. About two-thirds of the time I have something specific in mind to go with what we're studying that day but about one-third of the time I let DS choose whatever he wants from the queue.

Thank you for posting!

Thank you for clarifying. It is helpful for me and other readers to know if someone is giving a particular curriculum a negative review because of 1 - specific problems with the curriculum (ie., poor layout, disorganized, factually incorrect, confusing, etc.) or 2 - the curriculum's basic approach isn't in agreement with the reviewer's philosophy of teaching. I learn the most from negative reviews but sometimes I need to dig deeper to understand the root problem.

Thank you for taking the time to post this. It really spoke to me, as I'm deliberating what direction to aim for with my DS next year. I appreciate hearing relevant advice from those who have been there and done that.

So would you say that you specifically disliked Elemental Science as a curriculum, or do the methods employed by Elemental Science go against your philosophy of how science should be taught? Those are two different things. I would have loved it if my DS was the type of kid who likes to mess around and do projects on his own. But I've accepted the reality that he's not wired that way. Yet I don't think anyone who knows him IRL would say our homeschool isn't strong on science or that he's not learning enough science, LOL. I'm biased, but I'd say he's quite advanced for his age in science. ES does teach the scientific method (question/hypothesis/procedure/results/conclusion), which I think is what you mean by inquiry-based. The structure of ES has been great for DS, plenty rigorous the way we do it, and enjoyable for him. Again, it all just boils down to the student's learning style and the teacher's philosophy whether or not ES, and other programs like it, will be a good fit.

I think you really should look in depth at one of the generous samples on the Elemental Science website to see if it will work for your DC. I looked at it a couple of times briefly when DS was younger but I dismissed ES, thinking that I wouldn't like it. When I finally looked at it again in detail, I realized it would be a good fit for my DS (even if it didn't fit MY preferences at first.) One of the best lessons I've learned in selecting homeschool curriculum is: Don't dismiss a program because of negative reviews by someone who 1 - may have used it in a way in which it was not intended to be used, or 2 - tried to use it with DC whose learning style is incompatible with the way a program was written, or 3 - realized after purchasing it that the basic philosophy of the curriculum doesn't agree with their own personal teaching philosophy. It isn't fair to the curriculum or to future potential users to give a blanket negative review for those reasons, IMO. Those are just situations where it wasn't a good fit. Negative reviews that are due to things like poor layout, disorganized, factual errors, confusing, etc., ARE very helpful, however. You have to understand the reason behind the negative review. I come to the boards to learn what's out there, then I have to do the next step and research it for myself. That said, science is my DS10's favorite subject and he likes ES a lot. (He hasn't liked every science curriculum we've tried.) He enjoys reading encyclopedias, doing hands-on science activities IF he can learn something from it, but not if it just repeats something he's already been taught (that's a waste of time to him), and then writing about it WTM-style. His retention of the ES material is excellent. He doesn't like crafts or coloring and is all about efficiency, very no-nonsense. One person's busywork is the meat of the program to someone else and quantity of time spent does not equal rigor. I do not feel that ES is light, at least at the logic level. It all depends on how you use it. (We didn't use it in young elementary. IMO, science at the young elementary stage should be light anyway. By light, I mean low levels of output, not low input, by the way.) Logic level ES includes reading, narrations, outlining, vocabulary, memory work, labeling diagrams, discussion questions, experiments/demos, a science fair project, and tests. NOT light, IMO. For us, the best qualities of ES are that it is organized, open and go, very flexible, and based on well-respected/known encyclopedias like Usborne, Kingfisher and DK (vs. a book by a single author or just a few authors' biased viewpoints, and who may know very little about actually teaching science). If your DC are reluctant writers, just do those sections verbally. ES makes it extremely easy to skip specific assignments or output requirements that you don't like and just use what you do like. If your DC have similar preferences to my DS, then ES will probably work for your DC. If your DC prefer doing crafts and experiments every single day, or prefer reading wordy narratives (vs. brief just-the-facts), then ES will probably not be a good fit.

I haven't checked every level of the Elemental Science classic series, but all the spines we've used in it so far are secular - published by Usborne, Kingfisher, and DK. You can see the required and recommended books listed in the teacher's manual portion of the samples on the ES website.

For us, the answer is ES Classic Series. I haven't used the other products from ES. DS is in 5th grade, using the logic stage level. Very open-and-go, all planned out for you, with a student book of directions/schedule written to the student and teacher book to guide me in guiding him.

Have you looked at Jump In? It's not an online class, but mostly independent, geared toward middle-schoolers. Student book and teacher book for less than $40 and can be scheduled to last one year or two. Depending on your beliefs, there might be a couple of lessons that you'd want to preview/edit/change due to the viewpoint presented (published by Apologia), but I don't think it will be a problem for us and we use mostly secular materials. We're just starting it after doing IEW's SWI and the ancient history theme book. Planning to try WWS after we finish Jump In. From the website: "Easy, bite-sized lessons guide your student through the complexities of writing persuasion, exposition, description, and fiction. The text is incremental, the tone is student friendly, and the assignments are very achievable." You can find it at Amazon or any of the big book stores online.

Same here!