SWB posted a scope and sequence for WWS 1 to 3 in post #131 of this thread: Answering questions about Writing With Skill This was the document she linked: Topoi-expanded I cannot find the document at that link now. If anyone has the original scope & sequence, can you please send it to me? I can PM you my email address.

SWB had posted a PDF of the WWS Scope & Sequence when WWS1 came out. I can't find it any longer. Does anyone have it?

Hi all, While supplies last, we're offering VERY LIGHTLY scratched/scuffed books from Well-Trained Mind Press for 60% off the cover price! We have The Story of the World (activity books, textbooks, and tests), First Language Lessons, Writing With Ease, Writing With Skill, The Creative Writer, Telling God's Story, and many more. These books (which, honestly, aren't very scratched, and just look like they'll look once your children have them for a few weeks anyway) are only available through our office, not our website, so call 1.877.322.3445 to find out what's available and to make your purchase. Justin from Well-Trained Mind Press

I've started WWS 1 with my 7th grader this year. We've used IEW for the past two years, and he did fine with it (however the checklists about drove us crazy. :laugh:) Before that we did Classical Writing Aesop A and B. He is a good writer, and can easily do written narrations. He also has experience with outlining (complete outlines, not just the one level that WWS 1 has them do.) I really like the look of this program, but I'm not sure if I should place him in a different level or if we should just push through this one more quickly since I already own it and can't return it (bought it a couple years ago.) Since we are only in week 4, it might end up not being an issue in a few weeks. Any thoughts? Thanks!

I know there are many questions that I won't answer here...but post them and I'll do my best to address them. So, we'll start here.... 1) AVAILABILITY OF LEVEL 1. Currently we are on schedule to have the entire, proofread, typeset, finished PDF ready for sale in October 2011; and the print book for sale December 2011. (If copies are ready sooner, we'll let you know.) In the meantime, the first seven weeks and the full table of contents are available as free PDF downloads from the Well-Trained Mind blog: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/resource-roundup/writing-with-skill-the-full-table-of-contents-and-first-seven-weeks/"]http://www.welltrainedmind.com/resource-roundup/writing-with-skill-the-full-table-of-contents-and-first-seven-weeks/ Further weeks, for those of you who intend to hold out for the print book, can be requested by emailing my assistant, Pattie Worth: executiveassistant@welltrainedmind.com. It has been incredibly helpful to me to get feedback early in the process from many of you. If you feel that you can't continue without the print book, I do understand, but I hope you'll consider sticking with it and sending comments/problems/suggestions/questions to me (via Pattie). The books will be available from Amazon about eight weeks after it is available directly from Peace Hill Press. 2) AVAILABILITY OF FUTURE LEVELS. I'm on schedule to finish one level per year. What this means is that future levels will be available in September of each succeeding year...as long as you're willing to work from manuscript/PDF copies that we send you by email until the printed books are finished. Again, this is an invaluable part of the process for me--getting feedback from parents before the final books are printed. I had originally intended to make WWS available starting in the fall of 2012, and the Feb. 2012 pub date was so that we'd have copies for the spring curriculum fairs. However, the beta testers were SO helpful that I'd like to continue to put the program out a year earlier for feedback. The more parents and kids who use this, the more effectively I can fine-tune it. Drawbacks: You get manuscript/PDF copies and they're not as pretty. And you have to print them yourself. Advantages: It's free. 3) INTENDED AGE/GRADE: Writing With Skill can be begun by any student who is writing at a fifth grade level or above. If you're coming out of Writing With Ease: Children who have finished Writing With Ease 3 and are working at about a fifth-grade level can usually skip Writing With Ease 4 and go straight into Writing With Skill. Writing With Ease 4 continues to develop skills in narration and composition and also exposes children to a wider range of prose styles--all of this helps younger students mature to the point where they're ready to begin Writing With Skill. WWS asks students to write about a wide range of topics and also demands a fair amount of self-direction and determination...which is often a matter of maturity, not skill. If you're not sure, simply ask the student to complete Week 1 of the free PDF download (Week One: Narrative Summaries). If the student can do this without too much struggle, you can move on ahead in WWS. Deer-in-the-headlights reaction = go back and work on WWE 4 for six months and then try again. Although this is labelled "Level 1," it is valuable as pre-rhetoric for any student who is not prepared to go directly into the rhetoric studies outlined in TWTM. Finishing the four levels of WWS will actually prepare most students to go into basic-level college composition. 3) SCOPE AND SEQUENCE. WWS is a spelled-out, detailed, week-by-week development of the writing skills that are expected of pre-rhetoric students in TWTM. a) Writing With Skill teaches explicit skills in outlining, narrative composition, and sentence style. b) It also teaches directly how to construct and write chronological narratives, descriptions, biographical sketches, and sequences, across the curriculum (assignments are in both humanities and sciences). c) WWS teaches explicitly how to write brief literary reactions to both short stories and prose. d) WWS teaches basic research skills, documentation, and definition/avoidance of plagiarism. e) WWS teaches students to combine the four elements of (b) into longer compositions. WWS does NOT teach grammar explicitly; our assumption is that you will use it with a separate grammar program. 4) HOW TO USE IT. WWS consists of two books, the Student Workbook and the Instructor Guide. You need both of them. (For some reason, Amazon has the Student Workbook listed as an alternate "format" for the Instructor Guide. We're trying to get this fixed, but they're not WAY responsive, in case you hadn't noticed.) The program is directed AT the student; by this point, students should be taking on more of the responsibility for their own writing (since, after all, writing is a self-directed activity). The Instructor Guide provides you with suggested answers and rubrics for each step, plus detailed guidance in how to teach the student skills that he or she may struggle with. Incidentally, if you want the print book before February you can call PHP and pre-order it now by calling the PHP office. Order before Dec. 1 and we'll give you a 10% discount plus free shipping on those two books. OK...questions? Another post about Advanced Language Lessons coming shortly. SWB

I read somewhere that CAP's W&R book 3 flows nicely into WWS. I anticipate finishing up CAP W&R book 3 before my daughter is ready for WWS and was thinking of going through W&R book 4 before moving on to WWS. Would there be too much overlap between book 4 and WWS? It looks like W&R books 4-6 do cover roughly the same material as WWS. Any opinions on whether one does a better job of it than the other?

I am needing advice on how to proceed with writing for my daughter who will be in 8th grade this fall. She did 1/2 of Cover Story and then Time Capsule through Attune Up in 6th grade. This year for 7th grade we did CC, so she will have completed Lost Tools of Writing 1 as well as misc. science reports. I really don't know where to go from here. I ordered WWS for my 6th grader to start after doing IEW SWI B this year. It looks very good, but I am wondering if it is too incremental or slow for my 8th grader. She wouldn't complete the course until 10th grade at one level per year. I like that it is taught to the student though. Has anyone used WWS at a faster pace? Is there another curriculum I should look at? Writing is not my forte so I need something clear and easy to follow like WWS looks to be. Budget is a factor, so I am not looking at online classes this year. Thanks in advance for any advice. Angela

What writing style is used in WWS? My dd wants to use some periodicals instead of books for one of the writing assignments instead of books and we aren't sure the proper way to reference them. Thanks!

So my 4th grade daughter is not in love with writing. We started in 2nd grade with WWE and went through WWE3 with lots of tears and fighting before we gave that up. This year we've tried a multitude of things: 6-Traits from Evan-Moore, online class through charter school, and finally hit on a gem, IEW Student Writing Intensive (SID-A). This has been working better than anything else we've used so far, but we're not very far into it yet to make a long term decision. However, I'm having to buy my curriculum for next year within the next month or two before I have much of IEW under my belt. As much as I like IEW, the DVDs are a little annoying to both my daughter and me. We don't like being told something we can read much faster. BUT, it's working and I don't want to mess up a good thing. On the other hand, I like that WWS is written to the student and seems to follow similar methods to IEW, and it leaves behind the narration/dictation that caused such tears in the past. BUT I've also heard it's quite difficult. So what I'm wondering is if should we continue on with with IEW and get the SICC-A and continue to put up with the DVDs? Or should we move over to WWS1? I don't want to leave gaps in her learning, so I'm honestly willing to do both, SICC-A followed by WWS1, if that is a better sequence. Does anyone have any wonderful pearls of wisdom for me on this one? Anyone used both and can give me some perspective? Thanks for any help you can give!! Amanda

Any experience with WWS I Course? I wonder if D12 can do this independently. I wonder how much parent involvement is required with the course?

I have used WWS1 and 1/2 of WWS2 with my older, and we are about to beta test WWS3 (while concurrently finishing WWS2!) and begin WWS1 with my younger. The biggest thing I have found so far is that as much as I wish I could just hand a writing program over to my children and then just help when needed, that this approach will not work for us. I must be fully engaged in their learning. I think that for many kids the art of writing needs a coach in addition to good materials. So I want to talk about how we will actually teach this curriculum and make it work for our kids. So here are some of the things that I will be doing this year: 1. Review. There is a lot of very specific instruction in WWS, and in the past, we have just copied down the topos in a notebook and not really used it again. This year, I will instead do 3 things: (1) have them write it down in their own words and not copy, (2) put it on "writing walls" -- large sheets of cardboard that can be set around them during writing time so everything is visible at once (this is instead of a notebook), (3) verbally review and have them put the details and big picture to memory. 2. Find examples in the material they are reading for other subjects. I think that WWS needs to be integrated into all of our subjects, so I am going to ask them to find examples of different topos and show me. 3. Plan ahead. Sometimes the topics that SWB has chosen are not known to my kids (oops), and I would like for them to read up on these topics over the week prior to the assignment. So I will be reading ahead and having them go to the library the week prior. 4. Constantly remind them about how the topos fit into the big picture. This is where National Geographic will also come in handy. Description, narration, persuasion, expository paragraphs all mixed together to make a cohesive whole. We will be looking closely at these articles to keep the big picture clearly in mind as we work through the details. 5. With my younger, we will do WWS1 at half speed. I think that this program is a huge jump from elementary writing, and I want him to have a full week to do each week's writing assignment (not just 1 day). We will expand 'day 4' over five days (so 2 four-day weeks for each WWS 'week'). I would like to see how others are making WWS work for their children. Ruth in NZ

I'm planning for logic stage which might as well start at 5th grade for us. We have 4 years to prepare well before I enroll DD in PS high school. This is most likely the plan for us unless I completely lose my fear of homeschooling high school or win the lottery and enroll her with Stanford Online. I wish we could take all the writing classes from WWS all the way to Rhetoric, but we only have 4 years. I don't know how well our local high school will prepare DD for college writing, so I'm hoping that we get in the necessary foundation during the logic years. I just preregistered for WWS1 even though we've done some parts of it already. I was planning to register for LToW but that seems insane. Or is it? Based on Ruth's 2013 thread here http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/455439-my-comparison-of-wws-to-ltow/, I could do this sequence: WWS1, LToW, WWS2. This was 2 years ago so WWS3 was not yet published. So I could do this: WWS1, LToW, WWS2, LToW2 Or this: WWS1, LToW, WWS2, WWS3 Or could I drop one of these later classes like LToW2 or WWS3 and add Rhetoric 1? Or is there any possiblity of combining two courses during one of these logic years? I could try to finish up WWS by August and change the sequence to WWS2, LToW, and then? But the student book is almost 500 pages and we're not even at the quarter mark, although after using CAP and TC, I could skip some topics. Any opinions would be great. I'm just thinking outloud and hoping to get some advice on some possible paths for DD.

Would WWS1 at half pace / my daughter's pace and Paragraph Composing for Middle School be overkill? We are currently using Sentence Composing for Elementary school to augment her grammar lessons, for example, this is an appositive and this is how writers use it. Paragraph Composing seems like the next logical step but I don't want to use two things that will teach the same thing. I see that SWB's updated recommendations have the option of Paragraph Composing and then WWS. We started WWS this week, and I figure we will finish it sometime next year, sixth grade. Essentially, would Paragraph Composing alongside WWS be too much? Thanks for your help. :)

I have such a love/hate relationship with WWS. I love the way it's laid out, I love the structure, the way it breaks things down, the really quality instruction ... BUT I can't stand some of the reading selections. Worse, my 8th grade daughter (who is on week 5 in WWS Level 2) says it is SO boring -- and sometimes difficult to understand -- that writing is her most hated subject, and she dreads doing it every day. That isn't good! Especially since she is a kid who generally likes to write. I don't think she would like the MCT writing books we have on the shelf because she is a very step-by-step, checklist type of kid. I know some people say they use WWS concepts with their own reading selections, but to me that would feel like writing my own curriculum, and I really don't have the interest to do that. Can anyone suggest some writing curriculums for this age that are similar concepts and structure to WWS but with examples that don't make us want to kill ourselves? Also, any suggestions for note-taking and writing a research paper in particular? The lessons in WWS about those looked so awful we didn't even want to go there, and skipped them entirely. Thanks so much!

Hi all, The instructor book and the student book for Writing With Skill, Level 3 are now available as PDF products on our webstore. The physical books are being printed right now, and will soon be shipping to our warehouse. Enjoy! Justin from Peace Hill Press

Hi y'all, Just a quick note that we have posted free samples of "Writing With Skill, Level 3 Instructor Text" and "Writing With Skill, Level 3 Student Workbook" on the Peace Hill Press samples page. For each book, the sample contains the Table of Contents, the first ten weeks of lessons, and any appendices that are relevant to those lessons. We are getting ready to hand these books to the printer, and expect to have copies for sale within the next two months. Peace Hill Press will have it first, then Amazon and Barnes & Noble. I'll announce availability here, and Peace Hill Press will also update you through its Facebook and Twitter pages. Thanks for your patience. Enjoy! Justin from Peace Hill Press

I'm new to the Logic stage so I just had a question for those of you who are using WWS. Do you do the Notebooking/Outlining/Timeline/Source Eval with your core subjects? Or just as directed by WWS for writing? (Caveat-I've only glanced at WWS so far and it 'seems' like that is how it is set up. My question may be moot if I'm wrong about that...) Our core this year is US History. Long story short, I got the My Father's World Adventures in US History before we knew we'd be adding a 7th grader to the family. The materials are actually intended for 2-3rd graders who are the oldest students in the home. I decided to go ahead as planned and just beef up my requirements for him. I want to keep his academics on the lower demand side since we have a lot of adjusting to do anyway. Thanks for all suggestions and insight.

I thought it might be helpful to organize the threads for the topics in the awesome thread about WWS by week to make it easier to search for examples. I will try to update as more samples are added to the thread. Week Threads 12 volcano 26, 142 13 volcano 42, 80, 152 14 Mars 20, 28, 46, 91, 100, 135 15 hydrothermal vents 29, 30, 31, 47, 91, 92, 104 16 desc of a person 50, 56 17 desc of a person 51, 57 18 Henry VIII 73 19 Daniel Boone 74 20 Shakespeare 75 21 Death of a star 77 22 octopus 48, 49, 78 23 Rikki tikki tavi 53, 105, 124, 126 24 Necklace 125, 144 26 Anne of Green Gables 127 29 Julius Caesar 82, 136 30 Digestive sx 85 31 Marie Antoinette 87 32 Bells 154 33 Ozymandias 155 36 research paper 141 Hope that helps save someone time when they want to see some examples. I must've searched through the whole thread 5 times when I was looking for a specific week before I finally wrote it all down. Please let me know if you see that I wrote the wrong week somewhere. :) Jodie

My ds, 8th this fall, will be finishing WWS1. We plan to start our year with the poetry section. I am wanting to add a spelling program, continue with AG. Now I need to add in Literature selections and just don't know what to do. He will be doing a year of World Geography with no formal history this year. He really enjoys WWS and had great success last year with it. So we plan to continue with that as our writing instruction. I need to add Literature but want a "program". I am not into designing any lesson plans of my own. All the literature programs out there have a writing component in them also and it seems like too much writing. Is it too much to do: WWS 1 and then into 2 Spelling program Grammar program then a Lit program?? I am looking at EIL Intro to Lit,OR Hewitts LL8, OR Figuratively Speaking. Would any of these programs be worthwhile if I don't do the writing portion of the curriculum? I am open to suggestions! or maybe I am just overthinking this... Thanks for the help, Karen

Has anyone done this? Feel free to link me to another thread if this has been discussed. We are on week 6 of WWS. My dd is on the young side for WWS (4th grade - just turned 10), so we are going at a slooow pace. My plan is to go through Week 15 this year. She does the outlines and narrations on her own. We have been going over the day 3 models together. So far so good. Then, DD and I went over the week 4/5 writing assignment and I saw her eyes glaze over. I spent the weekend thinking about it and decided to have her write on a topic from history. She already knows how to take notes, and she agreed that it was easier to take her own notes than write on an unfamiliar topic. We followed the requirements laid out in WWS and it went great. I have looked ahead a bit and it looks like I will be able to continue to do this. I'm wondering if anyone else has done this - how did it go? For anyone that used or uses WWS, do you think this will work or is there something coming that will make this impossible/difficult?

I'm trying to figure out what to do for writing with my rising 8th grade daughter. We have spent the last 2 years working through WWS (and Creative Writer). She has done well with WWS, I see great benefit from it, but she hates it. (And she actually sees the benefit as well, but still doesn't like it.) My gut says to go on to WWS2 next year, but I am willing to entertain alternative ideas if they are as beneficial as WWS2. Any ideas? She's a good writer and needs something to challenge her. If this makes any difference, there is a chance she'll go to PS in high school. Thanks for your help! Cindy

I'm not sure whether or not to buy WWE4 for A's fourth grade, and would love some advice on how to decide about this. I do own WWS1, both teacher and student guides. This year A's Language Arts skills is turning out to be a combination of alternating WWE3 & the writing projects for Classical Writing Aesop for writing, and combination of FLL3/MCT Grammar Island for grammar. It isn't overkill because we school year-round and use the programs judiciously, but I may not be able to continue this combination into 4th grade. I see payoffs for the WWE work and don't want to drop it in 4th grade but am concerned that WWE4 would be an onerous waste of time (folks seem to think the dictation length is really a lot to handle) if the child is able to summarize nicely -- he is a fairly good summarizer at the moment, and we're working at this so I expect he'll be just fine at WWE-style summarizing before 4th grade starts. If I want us to keep in touch with the SWBauer method of writing, would I be better off using WWE4 next year or starting WWS and using it at a gentle pace, probably half-pace? ideas on how you would decide?

I am teaching a student who by age is an 8th grader, although I think is considered a 7th grader. His education has been a mishmash. I have him working through MM grade 4 placement test (with grade identifying material removed.) He does not have the material down cold. I've seen a lot of lights come on as we work (a bar diagram rocked his math world). I'm really concerned about moving him through this material in a timely matter without holes. Has anyone covered 4 years material in 1-2 with an older student? The workbook format of Math Mammoth seems to work for him, and I already own it. Same student is very capable reader, has no formal background in writing, although loves to write "adventure stories". Am I going to overwhelm him with WWS1? We did a very small part of the first lesson today. If I walk him through it, he does fine, and I have my frustration meter tuned in. Thoughts? How quickly does the material ramp up? I don't own WWE 3 or 4 to back him up, and looking at the samples, I think he's too old for them. Thanks! Bean

Hi all! The first ten weeks of Writing With Skill, Level 2 Instructor Text and Writing With Skill, Level 2 Student Text are now available as free PDF downloads here. That's over 400 pages of educational awesomeness. Remember, you can also pre-order these books from us by emailing info AT peacehillpress DOT com.

My dd completed WWS 1 and The Creative Writer as an 8th grader. It was a huge year for her - solidifying skills and confidence building. I wrestled with continuing onward with WWS 2 (and then 3) or move directly into "just" MFW AHL for 9th grade. We did begin MFW AHL and the writing component has completely thrown us off. The focus is on the argumentative essay - same format throughout the year. There is instruction in that type of writing, but my dd looks at me with "deer in the headlights" expression asking for help. She is very frustrated. There are obviously gaps from the end of WWS 1 to "write a 5 paragraph argumentative essay". She has ASKED to go back and do WWS 2. Is it realistic to "add" WWS 2 to our already full day? Or do I have her do WWS 2 and omit part of AHL? The literature supplement is tied into the grammar/composition AND the history assignments so it would be difficult to separate it all. sigh. How in the world do I "teach" writing skills where WWS 1 left off and still follow AHL lesson plans? Feeling a bit overwhelmed --- Someone please help me sort out the confusion.