Math Mammoth

Can you post what curricula she has been using or is using now? That would help us in recommending something new or different.

I think IEW is a great bridge between WWE and WWS. That's been our path so far. IEW, with the keyword outline method that it teaches, will teach your DC summarizing skills, along with style techniques that they won't get in WWE. IEW folds in nicely with WWE but doesn't overlap. I would suggest continuing both, alternating WWE and IEW for now, then WWS when you feel your DC are ready.

I wish I could offer something helpful but I have no experience with this. Maybe you should cross-post on the Learning Challenges sub-forum as well? :grouphug:

Yes, DS writes in the text for his grammar lessons. It keeps the peace. :coolgleamA:

Yeah, we did SWI-B followed immediately by the theme unit. Having done that, I personally wouldn't recommend doing a theme without first doing a SWI or going through the TWSS (teaches you how to teach it independently). I just don't think you'll get the full value of the program doing a theme unit only. Of course you can always try it and then back up to SWI if you feel like you've missed something.

Yeah, I've heard that about the BJU TM's before. I hear you about Abeka and R&S too. I'm sure they work great for some families, but that's just not our thing. I don't know of any great programs that combine writing and grammar, except MCT. I haven't personally used it, but I think it works best as a teacher-intensive program, not independent. Although I could be wrong about that at the middle school levels so maybe worth your time to look. We just finished the SWI-B and ancient history theme books from IEW. I love what IEW has done for my DS's confidence and enthusiasm for writing. But it is expensive compared to some other programs, so that may not fit what you need. However, the used market is very strong, so maybe you could consider that. (If you watch ebay for deals you can buy used and save, or buy new and recoup a lot of your cost when you sell it later.) I just ordered Writing Skills to beef up some of DS's writing organization/outlining skills before we dive into WWS this fall. I learned about it on the boards and it gets good reviews. Not too pricey. There are a few levels if you want to stick with it for the middle school years. Hope that gives you some ideas, or others will chime in. ETA: Have you looked at Kilgallon? There are sentence composing and grammar workbooks for middle school. Not sure how complete it is or if it is best used as a supplement. Haven't used it myself. There have been threads here if you want to search for it.

One more thought, would BJU's English be a possibility for you? It is colorful and said to be very solid, although I've never used it.

We use Hake for the grammar only - really like it for grammar. The other parts, not so much, but I knew that going in. We usually read the dictation/journal entry, but don't physically write anything . . . so not really used as intended. I think Hake's writing portion leaves a lot to be desired - there are better programs for writing. The grammar is thorough, efficient, no-nonsense (some would say boring but I think most grammar books are), if you write in the book it doesn't take much physical handwriting, which is a real bonus for us, and offers spiral review daily if you want it. It is secular, independent, written to the student. We're sticking with Hake for next year's grammar, which says something. Hake is definitely not colorful! (That's a plus for us, but sounds like a negative for you.) I'm afraid you might not like Hake, based on what you've included in your post. Have you used Abeka previously?

:bigear: Curious to see others' responses. Good question!

Which branch(es) of science do you want to focus on? We're using logic stage Elemental Science and like it. My DS enjoys the encyclopedia spines (he likes efficiency, not wordy narratives) and he usually reads extra pages from them for fun. We pick and choose which writing activities to do. It is open and go. I appreciate the discussion guide, the vocab sheets, the clear & simple labs, the tests. Never used Intellego, but their science offerings appear to be limited at that age. Just personal preference, but the extra internet screen-time, and eye-strain from reading on our laptop, required for Intellego wouldn't be good here. I've heard that sometimes Intellego's links are outdated/inactive but I have no experience with that. Could just be me, but I've always thought of Intellego as supplemental. Does Intellego include any hands-on labs? If not, and you want some, we've had good luck with TOPS kits. I can recommend a few if you like.

Not at all! To me, it means doing narrations/summaries, outlining, and/or essays/literary analysis using source material from your content subjects such as history, science, and literature. I see that as the goal of the exercises in WWE (and eventually, WWS) . . . to be able to do it on your own using your own source material (your curricula) rather than the WWE workbook sources. Your "writing time" then becomes integrated into your "history time", for example. Hopefully others will chime in with their take as well.

We used the Complete Book of US History as a spine in elementary. We added a little map work, library books and videos (Liberty's Kids, etc). It gets mentioned quite a bit here.

Ah, I see now. Thank you for explaining that. Based on your suggestion, I'm going to think about adding Paragraph Writing Made Easy. I personally would love to use MCT's Paragraph Town, but I don't think my DS would take to it. (As you said, some of us need less open-ended and more structure. DS is like that, LOL.) Thanks again! Great thread! ETA: Yikes! Paragraph Writing Made Easy is apparently out of print and quite pricey now! Hmmm. ETA2: I found the ebook version, currently $11.95. Much more reasonable!

Thank you for mentioning The Paragraph Book series. I added the link for anyone else who might want to check it out. I had not heard of it before, and I do like the looks of it. I see Christianbook has both the student and teacher books listed for sale. If you don't mind me asking, can you explain what skills you've worked on with your DD using your own material after doing Paragraph Writing Made Easy? I ask because I'm thinking I may need to add some foundational paragraph skills to my DS's plate along with the style techniques he's learned in IEW. We're looking to start WWS this fall.

Thanks for asking this question, and for the response. I've been wondering about doing this myself.

Instead of that, I'd utilize and master the skills learned in WWE by writing across the curriculum, esp. in content subjects like history and literature. Then start WWS when the student is developmentally ready, rather than starting WWS by default.

Try making the dictations shorter. Even SWB didn't do the long dictations as written in WWE with her kids. She broke it down into shorter phrases and repeated it many, many times. Check out this video of to see her method in action.

We had the same issue with GWG's predictable patterns. Hake is working very well for us.

Have you seen the Collier brothers' series The Drama of American History? I've read that the ones on the Rev. War and Civil War are especially good. I think most/all of them are also available now for Kindle.

We use it too and I agree with everything you wrote - including the part about the download vs. the online subscription. We had the same problem online and switched to the download version when it went on a good sale. I expect DS will keep using it through all the levels. Thanks for posting such a helpful, detailed review!

My DS used EM Daily Science grade 6 for a while as a supplement. We were both excited to try it but ultimately it was a disappointment, due to the way/order in which the info was presented. For example, one particular lesson on genetics included worksheet questions about Punnett Squares, but Punnett Squares had not been covered in the student material. So I explained it to DS on the fly and we moved on. Punnett Squares were covered a few pages later in the student material, so the lessons seemed out of order. I was impressed to see such a topic listed, but after reading through it, so much was left out that it was frustrating and the book became more trouble than it was worth. DS is in logic stage and wants to be more independent. Maybe better editing would have helped. We've never used any lower levels, though, so those may be fine. Just something to watch out for. ETA: To answer your first question, I think EM Daily Science could make a good science spine, but you'd have to be willing to spend the time to add in extra reading or additional resources to go beyond the topics as EM presents them. DS didn't "get" much of the info because the details were so skimpy. Since we already have a main science curriculum that I'm very pleased with, I wasn't willing to invest the effort into building EM up enough to be solid for grade 6 level and to make it open and go for a DS who loves science & wants to be more independent. In other words, I felt like I was having to supplement our supplement (LOL), so we dropped it. The younger levels seem to have good reviews, and it's cheap, so it couldn't hurt to try one one of those and see if you like it.

Ditto! Part of the EKS fan club here too! Whenever I see her posts I make note of her recommendations and add them to my ongoing future resource list.

Thank you for posting. I've considered CC, and info like this, which you won't hear at open houses or find on the website, is good to know as well. If we participated, I fear our only benefit would be in the social community, not the education received. I've looked at the curricula they use and most of it wouldn't be a good fit for us, particularly the math (Saxon) and science (Apologia).

Thank you, Lori, for such an awesome response . . . I'm taking notes too . . . she included everything I would have suggested and much more!