That's very cool!!!

Thank you for posting this, and thanks for the free audio book site. I had not heard of it before!

I agree with Discover and Do DVDs. You can also buy them other places than Sonlight (like Amazon or Christian Books), although Sonlight's supply kits make it easy. (The DVDs are actually made by InquisiCorps, not Sonlight.) And you do not have to use Sonlight's science curriculum to use the Discover & Do DVDs. They are separate products and do not always line up with the way Sonlight schedules their books anyway. When we used the Discover & Do DVDs, we ditched Sonlight's teacher manual and just followed the instructions in the DVDs themselves. It's more hands-on to watch the DVD segment and then do the project on your own, but your kids could learn a lot by just watching the DVDs if the projects aren't do-able for you. But no matter what you use, I wouldn't expect a 3rd and 1st grader to be able to "do experiments" by themselves. At that age my DS also liked watching Beakman's World videos. They actually teach quite a bit by showing lots of hands-on science.

I agree with the other posters. I'd recommend you start everyone at ancients and then everyone has time for a complete cycle one time through. If you stick with the 4 year cycle, your oldest will have time for an additional year to focus on your country's specific history/gov't (American History, or wherever you happen to live) (if that's important to you) at the end of high school, or an additional year of whatever interests her. Your twins could possibly get through a 2nd full cycle if you abbreviated certain periods that interest them less. Or just do the cycle once with them and then spend the remaining time on whatever interests them, and that may not be history. It's good to plan, but a lot can change in a few years. B) I like to approach my planning from the perspective of where I want my DS to be at the end of high school and work backwards from there. In our case, history isn't his focus, so we'll probably lighten his history load in high school (maybe just 2 or 3 years of history instead of 4) in favor of more science and math.

This. Been there, done that. I've learned the hard way that sibling rivalry doesn't happen by itself. Sibling rivalry is born in a competitive environment created, usually unknowingly, by the parents. Your DD is hurting and crying out for help in the only way she knows how. She's not a bad kid; this is self-defense and self-preservation for her. I know from experience, kids in these situations are easily lost to their families as soon as they are old enough, unless the parents amend their ways and their viewpoint. Family therapy can be a good way to sort it out if you look at it as parent therapy first, then kid therapy second.

Welcome to the boards! A bump for you and a couple of questions to get started: 1 - Do you intend to keep all 3 kids together for history or do you plan to have the 8th grader studying history separately from the 6th graders? 2 - This may be hard to answer, but do you anticipate ever putting them back in public school, and if so, how soon? If there's a chance they might return to public school for high school, for instance, that might influence which periods of history you want to teach them at home.

Seconding this one! Great workbook program, free reinforcement activities for every level/lesson here. Plus you can buy the answer keys to WW without the hassle of "proving" that you're a homeschooler (unlike Sadlier-Oxford). (No HS requirements in my state, so I have no way of proving.) WW is often cheaper on Amazon than other sources.

We use this also. It's just right for what we needed.

For your olders, I would recommend these for independent use: Easy Grammar or Hake Grammar workbooks Wordly Wise vocabulary workbooks Jump-In! writing workbook K12 Human Odyssey or Kingfisher World History Encyclopedia + documentaries + whatever type of writing output you prefer Kingfisher Science Encyclopedia + TOPS middle school level science kits (can also buy the complete supply kits) Teaching Textbooks for math, as someone already mentioned library books/living books tied in with history topics to cover reading/lit Independent things are harder to find for younger kids. Maybe Time4Learning? My DS really liked sheppardsoftware.com, fun4thebrain.com and freerice.com (these 3 websites are all free and cover a surprising number of subjects). During times of crisis or stress, it is surprising how much a kid can learn from documentaries and non-fiction library books, so there's always that until you get a long-term plan in place. Hugs to you and your family.

I didn't need the teacher book at all for the ancient history theme course after doing SWI-B with my DS. I have it, but never needed it. It isn't that helpful and there isn't much in it. (Not like the teacher pages to an SWI, for example.) It has answers to the vocab quizzes and writing samples for the finished assignments but that's about all I recall.

Daily Grams? Here's a link to 5th grade level. It's a companion product to Easy Grammar, but you don't have to use Easy Grammar to use Daily Grams. Or Evan Moor's Daily Language Review. It is formatted to help with testing skills too.

Thank you!

Snowbeltmom, is the County Park System High School Biology Labs for homeschoolers something available only in your area, or is it available to anyone? (I googled but had no luck.) Thanks in advance!

I was going to recommend exactly the same thing. Maybe not suitable for 7 year old, but I liked it and learned a lot myself.

This. I've seen others say to start with a theme book but I wouldn't recommend it. I know they're cheaper but it's not advisable. You really should watch TWSS (or go through a SWI with your student) before you do a theme book. Otherwise, you'll either miss the point of the program, or you and your student will just end up frustrated and drop it. As I said earlier, look up Andrew Pudewa videos on YouTube before you buy anything. You or your DS may not care for his style at all and it would be better to find out before you spend any money for something that you won't use. ETA: I keep editing this because I hope this comes across gently, because that's the way I'm intending it. The way you've described your DS, he sounds the same as mine used to be. I think I was in your shoes. I was frustrated b/c I KNEW he could do better at writing. He was good at telling stories and narrating, yet was still writing the shortest, simplest sentences he could just to be "done". Finally I learned with him that he just needed the right challenge coming from a source other than me. SWI-B did that for him. (As an IEW newbie, TWSS was too intimidating to me (10 hours long??!!) That's why IEW came out with the SWIs.) So the SWI-B assignments weren't from me - they were from Andrew Pudewa. Now, DS thinks it is fun to write full, descriptive sentences. He actually uses the thesaurus for the most descriptive adjectives he can find. WHAT???!!! It's because he can now be proud of what he writes and he knows it. Still, correct placement is tough to advise. I linked you to SWI level B because my DS10, who is a young 5th grader, did SWI level B with no problems at all. His reading level is above grade, but before IEW his writing skills were barely average and his writing confidence was definitely lagging. So I'd say the recommended ages of 6th - 8th grade for level B are a bit off. I wouldn't put an almost 12 year old in SWI level A. I'd rather buy something that will be somewhat challenging rather than too easy and insulting to his intellect. (Don't ask me how I know this.) (Also, I wouldn't want to use level B with an average 8th grader as IEW labels it; an 8th grader should probably use C.) Without knowing your DS, based on what you've written, I'd still bet he'll rise to the challenge. Also, for other posters/readers, don't base your placement decisions solely on watching a friend's SWI videos (without seeing the assignment book). The SWI videos provide the instruction for each lesson (you'll watch about one episode per week) but the writing assignments and requirements themselves are more key to each level. Level B started off easy and got progressively more difficult. Look at the samples to see the TOC for each level. Level A, B and C teach slightly different types of writing.

Another IEW fan here. Prior to trying IEW earlier this year, we used WWE. IEW turned my previously writing-phobic DS into a confident, organized writer. He now doesn't dread his writing assignments. To paraphrase lewelma from another recent IEW thread, "IEW focuses on structure and style. Other writing curricula are more about content." IEW doesn't require much original writing, but it teaches you how to organize and dress-up your writing. IEW is formulaic and it does feel stiff and awkward at first. But IEW clicked with my DS. He has now internalized the IEW formula and after a while the awkwardness fell away. His writing is SO much better now, and he is happily and confidently writing across the curriculum (well, without complaining or crying, LOL). Now I feel sure that my DS can tackle WWS next year. You said your DS "has a wonderful knack for words, and is very good at verbally expressing himself, but we are at an impass in writing." That used to be my DS too. IEW is known for working especially well for boys who are writing-phobic. As far as where to start with IEW, get the full DVD set Teaching Writing with Structure & Style (to teach you how to teach it) -OR- get the Student Writing Intensive and watch the DVD lessons with your DS to make it open and go (and it also comes with a TWSS overview for you). -Or- just order the TWSS Overview DVD for $10 to orient you to the program if you're hesitant to spend too much without knowing more. Also look for Andrew Pudewa videos on YouTube to get an idea of his teaching style. IEW accepts returns at ANY time (no matter how long), no questions asked. Or look for it used. After completing TWSS or SWI, you'll be familiar with the program and will know what products to use next. If you buy new, it is pricey. But writing is so important. I'll skimp on other subjects to get great writing curriculum. IEW isn't a good fit for everyone, but if it works, it does a great job.

Considering how much a typical PS middle schooler learns in American history, I would say she'd be plenty prepared for high school by using Hakim concise in 8th. I personally learned some new things from reading them. I'd say the content in the concise versions is about the same depth as the regular Hakim series, with much more editing to present the info more succinctly. In other words, I think the concise books cover the same ground, just done more efficiently. If you think the depth of info presented of the regular Hakim books (maybe borrow one from the library?) will work for your DD in 8th, then the concise would probably be a good fit depth-wise as well. Plus the concise version would make it more do-able to get through the full set of 4 volumes in a school year.

K12 uses Hakim in their program for 5th and 6th grade. So they may not be a very challenging read for an 8th grader, but I'd say still probably a higher reading level than SOTW3 and 4. I guess it depends on your DD. If she hasn't had much American history before, she'll probably still learn a lot.

:iagree: This, exactly! ETA: Here's a link to the first concise edition (A). There are 4 editions (A through D) in the complete set.

Haven't used your other choices, but we really liked Easy Grammar. My DS is very visual, so that's the only reason we switched to Hake, for the diagramming aspect because he likes to "see" the sentence structure. If it wasn't for that, we'd have stuck with Easy Grammar + Daily Grams all the way through. Secular (couldn't use R&S), thorough, simple to implement.

Right! Think squares of parchment paper layered between hamburger patties! (You can find patty paper on Amazon.)

My first thought is that you're looking at three programs that employ learning styles that are vastly different from one another. Knowing what approach you want to take will probably make your decision easy. Lori D. just gave you a fabulous summary of a great way to use English from the Roots Up. Vocabulary from Classical Roots is a workbook, could be used independently if you want that. We tried it and found the layout disorganized and not enough practice, hence poor retention as another poster mentioned. I've looked at lots of word roots workbooks, and I'm still looking for something better because my DS is wanting more things he can do on his own (he gets impatient sometimes, LOL). Caesar's English, as other posters said, is best used as a teacher-intensive, snuggle on the couch and discuss type of curriculum.

I second this one. I've used Elemental Science at logic level (not elementary level), but the author includes in the teacher guide how to adjust the curriculum to include younger siblings. Another one that I didn't see mentioned already is ScienceSaurus.

This is not true. Opinions based on incorrect assumptions help no one. Perhaps you have confused Elemental Science with a different curriculum. As a user of Elemental Science, I feel like I have to speak up and provide the facts about that particular curriculum for others who may be reading this thread. Elemental Science uses secular, evolution-teaching encyclopedias such as Usborne, Kingfisher, and DK as both the required and supplemental reading materials for the curriculum. FWIW, Cathy Duffy, who makes her living reviewing homeschool curricula, classifies Elemental Science as secular. I noted that she classified NOEO as having an "underlying Christian view, but most resources are secular" and RS4K as "neutral", which I personally think isn't possible in science. Our family does science secularly only. I have only used the ES logic stage levels, not the elementary levels, but I have seen absolutely nothing YE-biased or even Christian-biased. The author clearly states that she is Christian in the teacher guides. However, I've checked and I can't find her saying anything explicitly about YE, but I could be wrong about that. At any rate, the only thing the author has actually written in this curriculum are the teacher guides and student pages, which contain the worksheets and a few discussion Q&A for each lesson. I'm sensitive to religious content in science, and I don't recall seeing ANYTHING that gave me pause. One of the strengths that drew me to this curriculum is that it is based on well-known, widely-published, secular, evolution-teaching encyclopedias like Usborne, Kingfisher, and DK. Walking-Iris, if you could quote or link to documentation that proves your assertion that Elemental Science is YE Christian or even non-secular, I would really like to see it. Elemental Science may not be a good fit for everyone, but I'd hate for anyone to dismiss ES as a possibility because they are mistakenly assuming that it is YE Christian or non-secular. ETA: From the ES website's FAQs (underlining mine for emphasis): "Is Elemental Science secular or Christian? Although I am a Christian, I have tried to write Elemental Science as non-sectarian. I have done my best to write each program in a manner that focuses on the science being studied instead of a person’s religious viewpoint. This was an easy task for Biology, Chemistry and Physics. However, in the interest of full disclosure, we do require that you use books that come from an evolutionary standpoint. In the elementary years, we do not schedule pages that deal directly with evolution or Big Bang. In the intermediate years, pages that deal with the Big Bang are included as an optional study (Please view the Earth Science & Astronomy for the Logic Stage sample to get a better idea of how this is handled.) If you have any further questions on this topic, please contact us." FWIW, the author, who homeschools, and her husband, who assists in the ES business, both have degrees in science. Hers is BS in biochemistry and his is Master's in biology, and he worked as an ecology research scientist. (From ES website About Us.) For me, this speaks to their qualifications to write homeschool science curriculum, perhaps moreso than many other science curriculum writers. YMMV.

It would be very difficult for someone who doesn't know your child to recommend the proper level for him. You can see TOC and 15 preview pages for each elementary workbook here. Hopefully that will give you a better idea of the challenge level of each book. If that isn't enough of a preview, sometimes when I'm debating between levels, I just buy the higher level, knowing that I can save it for next year if it turns out to be too advanced. (If I buy the lower level and it's too easy, then I'm stuck with something I can't use.)