I sooo loved the idea of TOG but was a bit worried too. We got year 2 classic (B4 redesign came out). My kids were 6th, 5th, and 1st grades. I thought the main problem was that we started both TOG and Classical Conversations-Foundations at the same time. But as I look back I think TOG was/is just more then we needed. I do like how all the subjects tie together but frankly we don't have time for all those subjects in addition to math, science, logic, music, etc. Perhaps if they assigned less each week or day and bounced betweent the subjects it might have been more doable. My kids kept looking at the schedule and were just blindsided. We didn't make it out of the "fog" (or first month). We dropped it and just did Foundations and read history. The next year we just read Guerber books as we went from Foundations history sentence to the next one. When that got too much we just read for each history sentence... kinda skipping stones thru history. Next year Foundations works on Am History. My youngest will read on each history sentence. My older two (8th and 7th grades... not in CC) will do Sonlight core 100 Am History in Depth. We'll see how this goes. I think just reading a single spine all year with other related history books and related literature is just what we need. No extra projects unless we want to go and add them in. This will also leave me plenty of time for my CW prgm. I also like Veritas Press's Omnibus, but I think it's too much for my kids for next year. So we may start it the next year. It kinda follows the cycles in CC-F, so that's helpful also.

Melissa, Well I was planning on reading some of it with them but still having them read some on their own. They love when I read to them... and I really like learning with them. However I also want them to learn how to read and learn on their own as well. Thanks this helps. I'll have to take a good look at it. If it follows what they are reading, what is fustrating about it? It seems to only require noting where specific places are that they are reading about and not too much else. They don't work on memorizing locations nor on tracing or drawing locations. Hmm, perhaps we'll simply not where everything is but really focus on the geography that my younger ds is doing with Classical Conversations- Foundations. He'll be memorizing all the states and capitals. Trail Guides does look good.. I've considered it in the past but since we are already doing Foundations... I'll stick to that to keep the number of subjects down. Thanks again for your input!!

Thanks everyone so much for all your help. I've borrowed a copy from a friend. If I go this route then I'll probably buy it & most of the books from her. If I get the rest from SL it will be enough of an order to still get access to the SL formums. For a pick up and go curriculum I'm kinda surprised that the weekly schedules are in one place and all the discussion questions for history are in another... and the lit are in yet another. I'd rearrange it all into weeks so we can have the schedule and all notes within each week; but it doesn't seem to be printed in a weekly friendly format. Just seems strange. Anyway, I just like to confirm that we should be able to do all this in about 2 hours a day?? I expected one day in the schedule to do the discussions but it's not there. Do you just do them daily or as they are called for in the schedule?... which means all the Bible work, history reading and discussion and mapwork and timeline, and all the literature reading and discussion and mapwork should be doable within that 2hr per day timeslot? Oh wait, what about the memory work and the current events work? Still within the same timeslot? I know there are also creative writing assignment but I doubt we'll be doing those since we are using CW. Does the mapwork actually follow along with what they are reading or is it in it's own order? My younger ds will be doing US geography memory work so I'm trying to decide which to follow with my older two. TIA

hmm, I think I have your answer: How to Spell wkbks with How to Teach Spelling teachers guide ! This is based on the same Orton Gillingham research that SWR is based on so the rules and phonograms are very similar. (although this does have some sight words to learn) They do a workbook page or a few pages for the current lesson and then at the bottom of the wkbk pg it tells you where in the TE to look for the dictation! There is plenty of dictation to use. I tend to dictate some of the words orally till I think my dc basically had it down. Then there are plenty of phrases that can be dictated. (I tend to skip these). Then there are lots of sentences to be dictated. We tend to do just a few a day till they are all done. The dictation is thus focused on the current lesson AND brings in review of past lessons. When my kids get something wrong we just go over the rules and phonograms and they copy it a few times. done. I know they will get it again so I'm not too worried. hth

TimezAttack it is a computer game that you can download for free. They sell an upgraded version which just has more interesting backgrounds but it's the same program. This game has arcade like graphics and feel to it, so the kids think it's fun. You end up chasing down 4 groups of 3 'creatures' and then throwing each of them before being asked to answer 4x3=? I got the free version and the kids (boys and girls) played with it for about a year before they got bored. Then I purchased the upgrade and they are playing with it again! Also my kids learned all the skip counting to songs and we drill that often.... up to the 15s. This has helped during their math work (I can hear it working :lol:) One more thing, here's some site that might help in memorizing the facts and/or understanding the facts: http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/mmathmult.htm http://www.alabacus.com/pageView.cfm?pageID=321 hth

sounds interesting. Could someone summarize what's new in BiblioPlan? Did they just change their book selections or did they add to the teachers notes or something? :confused:

ChessMaster 9000! A friend gave this to us awhile ago for our PC. I love this prgm. It teaches chess from the beginning thru master levels in a step by step set of lessons that can get checked off when done.... so they can see their progress. It also has a 'room' to play chess games with other 'characters' in the program that have various levels of ability. You can get help in the game and after the game you can review it. There is also the ability to play with how it all looks on the screen. We don't use this but there is also an internet portion so you can go online and play against other real players. The lessons in this program are really good, imho. I've learned a bit also. You should also check out your local homeschool groups for a chess club. I'm going to be bringing my boys to one next year. hth

This looks interesting, I might check into this. Have you seen Piano for Quitters or Piano for Life? These DVDs also teach a feel for the piano before teaching how to read notes. I got the Piano for Quitters out of our library and it was pretty interesting and very informative. It did get my kids to 'play' with the piano in a new way. I'm considering getting the Piano for Life this summer since it's also at my library. Just thought I'd toss this out as another option!

Last I checked Mastering Mahtmatics does not have a DVD. I've been using MM for a few years with 3 kids. It does fit your needs very well. The parents manual (one book for all levels) has teaching suggestions and answers to all the problems in all workbooks. The manipulatives are all included. They are printed on cardstock and might need some cutting and setting up at first. We used them at first but then I tended to forget about them. The fact wheels are great, imho. I did pull my oldest dd out somewhere around 6th grade. She just really didn't like it and got bogged down in the later parts of the mult, div., and fractions books. I moved her on to Lial's Basic College Math and she is doing great. There are two ways to go through the books: either one at a time or via grade level. I've done it both ways. IF you plan to take standardized test at the end of the year then I'd suggest going with their guide for staying on grade level. You can still do one book at a time but you stop each book at the end of the current grade level (or bounce books more often for variety). My 12 yr old ds likes to switch books for a change of pace. The add and mult books have sections for each new set of facts (adding 3's or mult the 3's). I like to use page 2 of these (simple facts) as a timed drill sheet. So we will use a transparency sheet daily till we are done with the section and then do it on the paper. I'll keep track of date, time, and score on the opposite page just so we can see the improvement. hth

Sorry I should have included the link! Here http://www.schoolmatch.com/staff/bainbridge.htm that's where I got the info. Yes he has lots of info on public schools. His main point seems to be on accountability. There are lots of comments on that site about him; here is one: ABOUT Dr. William L. Bainbridge: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Dr. Bill Bainbridge combines his knowledge of K-12 education, business, politics, and parenting to provide a very insightful perspective on public education and accountability. One of his best attributes is the ability to take a common sense approach when he discusses solutions to complex problems in the field of public education. Bill knows how to communicate effectively with educators, parents, and policymakers on difficult issues related to school reform." Dr. Roderick J. McDavis Past Chair American Association of Colleges of Teacher Education President Ohio University

I wish I could find something on this on FoxNews but I haven't been able to yet... please post if you have been able to find it. Anyway, I did find these listed under his publications: "Home Schooling Is Increasing; Regulation, Oversight Deserved," EducationNews.org, Houston, Texas, February 18, 2006 "Home Schooling Is Increasing; Regulation, Oversight Deserved," The Florida Times-Union-Featured Column, Jacksonville, Florida, February 16, 2006 "Home-schooling Data Need Close Look," The Columbus Dispatch-Forum Column, Columbus, Ohio, February 11, 2006

I really does depend on what else you want to do at home... and how much time you want to spend on the memory work. I think a state notebook sounds like a good idea. Now if your notebook will just contain some basic stuff and not take too long per state, then you might be able to go along with the geography memory work. I believe they will be memorizing all the states and capitals so doing some work on each might help with the memory work by giving it a bit more depth. I might try this myself. But keep in mind that (I think) they cover more then one state per week! That's why I suggest keeping the level of effort kinda easy. Everyone tends to implement CC-F at home in different ways. I've found that I like to have my dc read more about each history sentence and do their presentations on history. (Although sometimes we switch to science or timeline.) hth

Pster, This will be my 3rd yr w/CC-Foundations and 2nd yr tutoring. Some use it as a supplement and do not tie any of it into their other subjects. This just becomes their memory work. Some use the Art and Science labs for their art and science for the week and do the rest of their subjects at home. Others just do Foundations for it all and just add in things like phonics and handwriting. Then there are folks like me who pick parts of it to add to and then do other work at home. I tend to prefer to memorize what I'm familiar with so I like to teach more about what we are memorizing. So I tend to pick the history sentences. My kids read more on each sentence and do their presentations on those each week. That's all we do for history or science that week. Essentials and Challenge programs are separate and not everyone chooses to do them. I really think you should attend the seminar to learn more, it will help. hth

ug. This concerns me also. I was hoping to use Sonlight core 100 but when I discovered that they use these books I hesitated. I've been told that the notes and discussion questions will help me to balance this out. I wonder though, how helpful other conservatives have found these to be. I'm quite sure these will spark some interesting discussions in our house as my hubby knows history and politics quite well.... I on the other hand do not... that's why I'd like to know how helpful these notes from Sl will be.

Interesting question! I think I'd say a rigorous curriculum is one that will really work the user to achieve it's educational goals. I agree with the person who referred to a mastery of the material by the end of the curriculum. This can be boring or fun, that would depend on how well the curriculum, student, and teacher all view the methods, assignments and assessments included inthe curriculum. A strict curriculum? hmm. I guess that would be one that stays close to a set of goals. Thus all of the assignments can be linked back to an intended goal. I think sometimes curriculums want to be seen as fun so they include assignments just for 'fun'. I don't agree with this. We can make most things fun; but we prefer not to feel like we are waisting our time on an assignment just for fun! There are other things we can do just for fun! However strict education, class, or school makes me think more of the teacher than the curriculum. This is where I need to decide if the current assignment should be done, if it should be accepted late, if my kids should stop school before getting their work done because their friends are available for play. I'm strict when I stick to the rules and flexible otherwise. A tough curriculum? This would be one that is actually hard for the student to work through, not impossible but one that will take time, energy and thought. This curriculum will require the student to work at their ability and a bit beyond what they are used to doing. Now this can be fun. That would depend on the student's learning styles, the teacher's teaching style, whether or not prep work for the lesson was done, and of course how these styles line up with the assignments. I don't think a rigorous, strict, tough curriculum is bad for anyone. I think that it is just very hard to find one that lines up well with the teacher's teaching preferences/style, the student's learning style, and can be balanced with the other requirements like cost, teacher prep time, teaching time, student time, plus balancing other kids into the curriculum or leaving time for their curriculum to also get done. Then there is also the scheduling of this one curriculum with the rest of the curriculum you might want your dc to do (unless the first one includes all the subjects). However when you do find some that fit well within your family at this point in time, it can be very fun... at least that's my hope. I think burnout is when you really just don't want to get started and you just can't get past that attitude. I guess this is beyond just needing a short break, a drink or some exercise. I'm looking forward to reading other's responses on this one.

The Truthquest guides are more then booklists. They also contain a discussion or introduction to the current history lesson. Then there are suggested books. There are also suggested writing or discussion questions called ThinkWrite questions. Truthquest books are more of a spine for history. They are also from a Christian viewpoint. hth

I've also found them available from Critical Thinking Co. at http://www.criticalthinking.com/series/074/index_p.html They are for grades 6-12.

If you just use CW you really aren't discontinuing grammar. It is continued. Aesop incorporates the grammar lessons in each week. So they will learn what the parts of speech, for example, and spend lots of time finding them throught the course. My oldest did R&S Eng 3 with Aseop. My next ds did FLL before CW Aesop. Then he did Classical Conversation- Foundations (which memorizes Eng grammar terms) along with Aesop. Oh, we also used Mary Daly's First Book of Diagramming, as suggested by CW. My next ds will finnish FLL this summer and do CW Aesop along with Foundations Eng memory work. And probably the same for my youngest dd who is only 3 yrs old at this point. My 8th grade dd and my 7th grade ds will do CW for older beginners next year... skipping some of the Aesop work. They will use Harvey's grammar since it's tied in so well.

We are listening to bk 3 right now. We do about a chapter or two a session around lunch time. It's a great way for us to fill in the gaps.... especially since I didn't have to pay for it. I'm sooo glad our library has all these!

Are you Kidding? We just finnished testing for last year, still have basic school work to finnish up for last year, and I have all these ideas for next year but I still need to determine if/how they will fit into a school day! so nope, not done planning. probably won't be done till after I've started next year! :001_smile:

Well it looks like this would need something to teach or review the big picture around the historical events. I'm looking at using SL core 100 which I think takes about 1 1/2 to 2 hrs per day. My 8th grader's days are getting long. I need to work to keep them down to 7 hrs per day! Since SL schedules a full 36 weeks, I don't think we'll have extra weeks to just stop SL and do this instead. Perhaps I can find one day in the week that will be shorter and fit it in there? We may not be doing all the papers from SL (since we have CW Homer to do) so that might give us some time. I'm also scheduling some time for Teaching Toolbox, perhaps I will be able to switch TT with this curriculum as we get to the right topics. hmm, I also wonder if I have too much overlap? [perhaps a separate post for this one, so I can get more SL users opinions] So each lesson takes about 20-30min a shot. I may be able to fit that in once a week but I don't think we can fit it in 3-4 days per week. Lisa, how many lessons there are per book? I've looked online but I can't find that info. :bigear:

My dd wanted to do her own study for history this past year. She was in 7th grade and not too much of an indepenant worker so I thought this sounded great. It fell apart. Mainly because she wanted to do a different timeperiod also. In retrospect I think if we were at least all on the same time period I could have kept her to task better. So I'd recommend that for you. At least if he changes his mind you can always regroup everyone together! hth

Lisa thanks this does help. For anyone else interested in these, I found another neat review of these books here: http://www.abasiccurriculum.com/reviews/ctush.html So, about how long does it take to go through a book? I will be doing Am History with my 7th & 8th graders next year. I was considering using Sonlight core 100 so that we'll get the events of history plus related literature all worked out for us into daily assignments. I just don't know if we'll have time for supplements... and yet I'm finding supplements that I'd love to include. (I'm referring to these as well as Drive Thru American History). ug. For logic we will be doing Thinking Toolbox and my oldest might be doing a Debate class so that slot is kinda full also.

I hadn't thought of this option. Is this a supplement or a full year curriculum? Is this self contained or are the additional books suggested/included to go along with it? :bigear: tia

My dd enjoys drawing. This past year we were going to put her in a local co-op class that focused on just drawing but it was canceled. Instead we did a different art class that hit on different media. She prefers drawing. I'm not sure we will be able to fit in the class this year. I was wondering what curr to consider for her to do basically on her own (w/some help from me if needed). I have Draw Squad and may just have her work on that one. We did start it awhile ago. I also have Drawing with Children and Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. I do get the beginning of these books but haven't gotten too far beyond that to easily lead her... and I don't think she will be able to do these on her own. There are plenty of books on drawing horses or cats etc but I was hoping to learn which books are really good or worth doing. I think she has a gift here so I'd like to work on building her skill set. tia