:confused:Okay this just made it to the 6th board, ug. I know there are VfCR users here so I'll just bump and hope they see this post this time.

Yes I use it with CW Homer and just follow their lead. CW does say which chapters to do when as we go thru CW workbook. I think they are a good combination.

For my older dd I already had done R&S Eng 3 so we didn't need any additional diagramming text. I did already have the ABCs book that you mentioned and we did use it for the spelling analysis. We didn't switch to SWR, we just continued with what we were already using. I did however get the Alpha book, just to help us learn how to mark the words for spelling and to check our work. For my ds, I went and go Mary Daly's First Book of Diagramming since he didn't go thru the R&S Eng 3 book. I do have him do all the optional diagramming and this text is pretty helpful. So I guess at this point I have all three extra books and I even use them.

Do you just assign the workbook pages and have them work independently? Do you read over the lesson together in the workbook first? or do you first teach from the Teacher Manual? I'm thinking of just having dd do the work independently but I'm not sure if this is really a good idea.

Just Another Option for ya: How to Spell workbooks with the TE: How to Teach Spelling It is based on the same research (Orton Gillingham). It teaches the phonograms, rules and some sight words. The workbook has space for copywork of words and rules and some exercises. There are no tests, just dictation from TE. hth

This year I actually spent less then I wanted and less then I expected since we did less then I hoped.... so I didn't need to get some 2nd semester books. I have 4 kiddos. Now the youngest is only 3 so I don't need to get for her as we already have puzzles and other stuff from the others to re-use. The others are 8yo in 2nd, 11yo in 6th and 13yo in 7th. The costs would be more but I already had some stuff that we just continue to use, like math. I have 2 kids in Classical Conversations-Foundations but I also tutor there so that knocks the price down. My oldest takes 3 classes at a local co-op. curriculum--------------- $931.31 tuition....................... $1,887.20 other~~~~~~~~~~~~~ $110.00 Salary for tutoring,,,,,,,,, $1,400.00 est total total .............. $1,528.51 <<<<<<<<<< edited to add >>>>>> So that's about $500 per kid. I sometimes spend more on a subject but that's so that it is reusable... perhaps a Computer prgm instead of a workbook or CD with reproducable pages instead of multiple workbooks. The price for curriculum does tend to go up in the higher grades. I also look for some co-ops in the upper grades since by then my kids tend to really seem to benefit by working with others. <<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hth

The TM leads you through how to introduce the roots and link them to various words. All the lessons have the same format: Intro, preview, present, guide, activity, exercises, review. The first three they estimate takes about 40 min. The guide and activity are optional but could take another 30 min. Then the exercises about 30 min. and rev about 15. I THINK one can do the exercises without the TM since the workbook does explain the words. The TM does have the answers to the exercises in the workbook. As far as doing VfCR without the TM... well I don't know. That's what I'm hoping someone else will chime in here and explain how they use it.

Do you teach the lessons and then assign the workbook or do you just assign the workbook and only teach the lesson if they need some help? tia

Okay I have one dd in CW Homer A and one ds that will be moving into Homer A next year. They'll be in 7th and 8th grades and schedules are really getting crowded. I always like to estimate expected time per subject or curriculum to see if it will really all fit. It's getting tight. So I'm wondering if I have too much. Since CW Homer seems to also cover vocab, do you also do a separate vocab program or do you consider what is in Homer to be enough? {I'm not sure we will be doing latin, so that can't cover here} And what about after Homer? Do they still do vocab work? If not do you bring it back in as a separate subject? tia

I've done the first two Mindbender CDROMs with my kids as a logic warm-up. I really liked these as they are re-usable for all kids, self correcting (without giving the answers away), and include a little game. My kids all really liked 'playing' with logic on the computer. Now I'm doing Fallacy Detective with my 6th and 7th graders (yet the 8 year old loves to sit in and tries to figure it out also). I had hoped to also do Teaching Toolbox but I don't think we will have time this year. Maybe over the summer or in the fall. Next year I'd also like to do formal logic with Intro to Logic & Intermediate Logic... although my rising 8th grade dd will also be taking a debate class so time will be an issue here.

Well, I'd really like a watch that stops time for everywhere except our school so we can get our work done and still have time for fun. But back to reality... you asked about curriculum dreaming: Right now I've got my 8yo signed up for Classical Conversations-Foundations (again) for next year... cycle 3 American History. I'll also have a rising 7th and 8th graders that I'm not putting in their upper prgm. So I'd love to get Omnibus III for them but we are horrible at getting things done so I'd really want the online course for both of them for both primary and secondary readings.... but ug... no way I really could spend that much money! But it would be best to keep all three on the same time period of history.. or about.

A friend gave us ChessMaster 9000. We have it working on our Windows XP Home computer. This is great, and yes it also talks to ya. I like it because it has classes from beginner thru master levels. It also offers the option to just play games. They can go by rank and play against anyone from a monkey to a master level player. hth

:lol: I really liked this one! It's sooo true! Thanks for sharing. :grouphug:

One thing to remember about reviews is what the reviewer considers important and to whom they are making suggestions. It is not just that a program will achieve the advertised results, it's also the cost, the amount of prep work on the teacher, if it combines other related subjects, if it just focuses on the one subject, the teaching style, the learning style, etc. I do think she must like the idea of the progymnasmata since she said ( I think) that she will be utilizing it for the upper levels of her writing program. She has said that it is a good program. Her reservations were mainly around the learning curve for the teacher/mom. Remember she is offering ideas to everyone! So, SWB seems to suggest programs that are quick and easy to implement yet still offer good (in her opinion) results. (ie. writing strands). BTW: SWB reviewed CW before the workbooks were out and before some of the upper levels were out. hth

Oh I forgot to say that when I first tried it at home (before my re-attempt at class) I couldn't get too far. I ended up getting Draw Squad. It's similar and the forward in the book is from Mona Brooks, the author of DWC. I still find DS easy to teach at home.

I used DWC to teach a few lessons to my class (Classical Conversations - Foundations). First we went over the basic elements (line, dot, etc.).... what they were and how to identify them. Then to "prove" that all drawings are made up of ONLY those basic elements I drew a simple picture on the board. Then I erased all of one element at a time ( say lines, then dots, etc) and guess what? Nothing was left. So the entire picture was made of just the basic elements. Then we checked out other pictures. I wanted to make a picture with the clear 'overhead' sheets... one per basic element ... and then put them together to show a picture. But I didn't have time. Perhaps next year. I think it would be neat to see the clear pages of different basic elements that seem random but when place ontop of each other become an actual picture. I did also use Drawing from the Right Side of the Brain for other lessons, but I was following what CC-Foundations wanted to teach. hth

"An appositive is a noun that follows another noun to explain or identify it." That's how we memorized it for Classical Conversations-Foundations. Have you met our visitor, John? Here John is the appositive because it is a noun that follows the noun visitor to identify who the visitor is. Not sure on the original question though. I've learned that, "It is I" is the correct way for me to answer, "Who is there?" ... although I've always heard It's me. Sooo I'm guessing [That's I] would be correct while [That's me] is what I'm used to hearing.

Wait. doesn't 8:15am PST = 11:15am EST?

hth

I've been thinking of working on this as well. I checked one idea out a few months ago. I read aloud our history to the kids and took my own notes. I don't have a large white board so I just wrote them on paper. I discussed what to write and why and showed them as I went along. It did interrupt the flow of the narration but by the end of the chapter we had some notes to refer back to. I only did this for one chapter. Then I just read for a bit. I'm thinking of doing this again. We usually read a few chapters at a time so maybe I'll take notes on the first chapter and have them take notes on the last chapter that I read. I'll have two kids ages 13 and 11 so maybe they can either work together or compare notes when they are done. I figure most things are taught by example so I'm just thinking that maybe this should be also. {I just hope I take good enough notes! lol }

Wow, and here I thought I was the only one who really had trouble making decisions! :lurk5:

I've so wanted to join in but life's been so busy (well, mainly when I pick up the computer to post). Anyway I also love the idea of the progymnamata and especially appreciate how CW is walking us thru it. Reya: I do think you made some interesting comments. Somewhere you commented on the check box approach. To some extent, I think this is needed so we know what to teach, what to check for, and they know what is expected. It's part of the learning process. As they progress the contents of the check boxes change and advance thru levels/abilities. I think they are more a tool for anyone teaching in a field they are not very well versed or educated in. I agree with you that students need to move past the check boxes or at least be able to internalize what their options are for the current writing assignment. I do think CW does help the students move beyond the need for checkboxes to do their papers. You also seem concerned with the choice of models. The main CW program was written for any model. The choice of the model is not restricted. Modern writing is perfectly fine. The workbooks are optional but even if you choose the workbooks you are not restricted. You may still swap out any model for one of your choice. But more imporant I'd like to point out something you may not be aware of with the CW program. They really do encourage using the skills learned across the curriculum. In fact, the CW Aesop B workbook calls for two papers for each lesson. One is based on the model, the other is to be based on something from the students history lesson, or science lesson, or current literature being read. We are only up to Homer A but someone pointed out that the later levels do use more modern models of well written works. So the CW program seems to agree with you that the models should be from a variety of well written works (not just well known works). You also mentioned avoiding a specific style or way of writing... or taking a specific way of writing (lots of modifiers or infrequent modifiers but strong nouns and verbs, etc.). I have to agree with you there. There is another writing program that seems to take itself pretty seriously on this idea. But then again that may just be their beginning levels. Anyway one of the things that I like about CW is that they don't just teach the various styles of writing but they also have the students learn that it matters which one is chosen for each paper. ie: how something should be written depends on a few things like who the audience is, what the purpose of the paper is, etc. So the CW students will have lots of tools to work with when they write their papers. Reya, thanks again for sharing your ideas. They did make me stop and think about my choices again... which I find a good thing once in awhile. I think another reason that some dislike CW is due to more to its teaching method then to the progymnasmata itself. Some say that they or their kids just feel like they are just doing the same thing week after week; they would prefer more variety in their writing assignments. This reminds me of math programs where some use a spiral or incremental approach and others use a mastery approach. I think CW uses more of a mastery approach, which works well for me. We have a co-op nearby that teaches the progymnasmata in 2 years. So it can be done faster and maybe repeated for more depth I guess.

Thanks for all the help. The co-op I was referring to is Classical Conversations-Foundations. I guess they will be using the songs for the science memory work. Hmmm, they might also be getting their 'labs' from there also as they seem to correspond. I'll have to ask. So that means it will be one chapter per week for about 24 weeks. oops, it's not a full year program? So I guess spreading it out over the 24 weeks would really require me to add some work for my 8th grader! hmm. Yep, their website even says that all three of the Life Science programs make up one year's worth of science for Jr. High. I hadn't thought of even looking to see how it compares with General Science's coverage of the same topic. ?Have the 8th grader use both programs; skipping the human body study in General Science? hmm. a thought. I'll have to think on that idea as well. ug. I just thought it would be sooo nice to have all the kids on the same topic/program again.... But I really need to watch what the older two use now as they are getting close to those H.S. years where science topics are defined and required. Thanks.

The co-op is called Classical Cottage. They teach a progym class to their upper school (jr high). {sorry but including the previous posts isn't working} The description says that their course is based on D'Angelo's book, but it doesn't say whether the kids are expected to read from it or if the projects come straight from the book or not. I'll ask that one. I just found it interesting that they teach the progym so much faster. Then again, this co-op teaches it in two years and then offers their own 6 year Omni type program which includes progym writing projects. So I guess they actually take 8 years with the progym. Hmmm this is beginning to sound more like a mastery verses spiral/incremental type of difference. They teach the basics of all the progym and then go back and hit them again over the next 6 years. CW seems to be more of a mastery type program since they spend a bit of time on each lesson to really build the skills. Then they have you apply what you learned accross your curriculum. I do feel for those who think CW takes too long to cover the progym. I also kinda wish it had a target finnish of around 10th or 11th grade. This would leave the last year(s) to just utilize the skills they learned instead of continuing to learn new ones. However, for me, I still think I like the CW program best. I know I could go at our own pace w/o the workbooks but I prefer to have the answer key ;), have the days planned out :D, etc. So far I still love the connection between the grammar and writing, the bits of spelling and vocab, the copywork and dictation, the incorporation of logic & rhetoric in the upper levels, etc. It's all there. The more I think about it, the more I don't think this co-op is for me. I tend to go for mastery type curriculums; I guess that's my 'teaching style'?? I don't know. But thanks for hearing me out.

I was thinking of having them both do Apologia General Science w/ a co-op (if I can find one) but I'm also realizing the my rising 3rd grader will be doing a co-op that uses Lyrical Life: Human body. So now I'm wondering if I should just get that whole program and do it with all my kids? Their website does say it's for jr high level. Then again if we do LL3, then my oldest will enter 9th grade w/o something like General Science as prep work. We haven't been very formal about science. TIA