Well, um, we didn't like it. :001_huh: Sorry I know many, many who do but it just not for us. I haven't like it for awhile. I've seen the DVDs a few years back and it didn't thrill me. However when I was signing my kids up for a local 3 day academic camp, one of the camps were using IEW. It was the only one offered for 13-18year olds. So I signed my 13yr old dd up and didn't tell her that they used a prgm that I didn't ... prefer. Well she just didn't like it. She was bored and it seems she didn't learn anything new. She said they watched the DVDs and talked about it and then did some writing but she really hated the way they made her write. "Who writes a 'who clause' in every paragraph?" she complained. She thought it was real silly how he referred to "ly words" instead of adverbs. She said something about how he explained 'adverbial phrases'... I don't remember... something like he made it sound like a horrible but doable thing. She thought it funny how he though so highly of 'ly words' when her writing teacher from last year told her not to use them unless they are really needed. Why say "He quickly ran accross the street." when you can say, "He darted across the street." Oh she just went on and on ... and on. She didn't have a problem with the writing assignments either, eventhough she was one of the youngest in the class! I found that a bit strange... I thought she'd be challenged at least. < edited to add: they used IEW Student Workbook-C > Oh well. We are administering the chill pill :chillpill: to dd. ;) and moving on. Good luck finding what fits for you and yours!

I was considering getting the Synonym Finder for my kids (3rd, 7th, and 8th) until my oldest suggested getting one for the computer. Since we do most of our compositions on the computer this might not be a bad idea (unless I'm missing something???). Then again it looks like there are ones that combine dictionary & thesaurus. So which is a good one to get? So is it just as good to use the free ones online? tia

The progam is meant to be used as you want to use it. In Aesop you don't "NEED" additional grammar. In Homer additional grammar will be needed. Harvey's is the suggested bk ... since they needed something to use they picked one that taught all the grammar without having to go thru many years to get done. You can pick something else, many do. I like to use the Harveys just because it's all lined up for me and easy to do. I allow about 1.5 hrs 4 days/wk for CW but I also consider it to cover grammar, composition along with wkly vocab and copywork/dictation. It even includes some literary analysis. The later volumes (after Diogenes) no longer work with grammar... that is replaced with a study on formal logic and then rhetoric. I've done Aesop A and B and a few lessons from Homer A. I'll be doing the Older Beginners book with my 7th and 8th graders next year.... and hopefully the Older Beginner bk for Poetry also. I like to estimate the full 1.5 hrs but it doesn't always take long. Typing really helps the editing stage. hth

Oh yes, we did this and the kids had so much fun. Check out the tutorial. I couldn't understand how a game could teach the facts... it only made sense that it drilled them... but this game does teach them. I got the free version and we used it for about a year before my kids got bored. Then I bought the full version. This is the same game with the same number of levels and difficulty. However they now had different scenarios to traverse. It made the game all new again and they began playing again. Have fun!

I'll have a 3yo girl to deal with this fall also (in addition to an 8yob, 12yob, and 13-14yog!) I haven't planned anything yet. I'm hoping to let her stay near with some puzzles or coloring while I read aloud the older kids (if not that will wait till nap). I will probably read aloud lots of book for her age as well (especially if I can find some that relate to Am Hist that the older kids are doing.) Must be some Am Hist board books or simple short stories at the library. My dd also likes to draw/write all the time. I might just make several sheets with dotted lines, curves and angles for her to trace. Its a great thing to do at this age, especially if they want to use a pencil! We have one bk for her already that is wipe off with lines and curves to trace and she loves it. Kumon book are a good idea too, I've been considering them also. If we get to letter and number recognition then she can do some dot to dot type books or paper that I or my older kids make up. Of course she will be learning lots of things with us as my older kids do their memory work for Classical Conversations-Foundations. hth

I think A Case of Red Herrings mainly works one type of fallacy. I ended up not getting it and using Fallacy Detective instead. (don't remember why though) It's working great for us. So yes, you can skip A Case of Red Herrings... not everyone here does it. hth

I'll have both a 7th grade ds and an 8th grade dd. For vocab we will be doing: *Vocab from Classical Roots A *1day/wk vocab analysis with Classical Writing's Aesop& Homer for Older Beginners *lots of reading and discussion w/ Sonlight core 100 I have also considered switching VfCR out and using Word Roots software instead. It sounds like more fun, but we already have most of the bks for VfCR... and I think the bks will make it easier for me to stay in touch with what they are learning. I tend to loose track of the work they just do on the computer. hth

Have you checked out the H. A. Guerber books: Story of the 13 Colonies and Story of the Great Republic? I think they are online somewhere but Christine Miller has recently but them back into publication at her site: http://www.nothingnewpress.com/index.shtml hth

This year my youngest will be doing Am History with Classical Conversations so we'll follow their order for teaching the states. I'd love my kids to know the chron order but I really think the geographic locations are more important. Knowing where the states are just seems more important then being able to list them in alpha order. hth

Cyndi, I had the same problem with my ds at the beginning of last year. I used the RS games a bit and they did help. They would have helped more if I got the chance to use them more. But I will say that the AL Abacus really did help. We learned how to add, carry, subtract and borrow on it and now he really has all that down. I'm thinking of getting the 'Activities for the Al Abacus' bk and maybe the workbk that goes along with it as a supplement. It might continue to help my ds if we learn how to use the abacus for mult, div, etc. I really like manipulatives, especially those that can't spread all over the place! :D Oh, one more thing. I recently bought the new DVD that demos the games. It's supposed to help us learn how to play more of the games without having to first read thru the bk (which has really slowed our use of the games). Now if I can just get my computer working enough to view this ... hth edited to add: Another thing that tended to slow our use of the card games (besides learning the game in advance) was that we needed to gather the right cards for the specific game we wanted to play. There are different sets of cards but certain games only need some of them (so many 5s, so many 8s, etc.) Try to get it ready ahead of time (night before?) and all should run smoother.

I use CW but we learned simple narration skills from history via SOTW. I started my kids with narration by first doing it orally. If they can tell back the story then that's a narration. If they can do it in order then they did it real well. They sometimes drew a picture and then told me their narration from the picture. At some point I started writing their narrations down. This way they had to slow it down so I could get it down on paper. They had to repeat some things till I got it right. Okay, sometimes we talked about how to word a sentence or which order to put the sentences in. I did end up switching to the computer and typing their narrations... much easier and quicker. In my next level I printed their narration in a large font and had them trace parts of it.... as much as I thought they could handle. This then lead to copying parts of it instead. Which then lead to dictating it. :D Next step was to work on an outline or a basic list of what they wanted to include in their narration and help them fill it in with sentences. This then blended right into them writing their own narration. The thing I liked about CW was that they didn't have to spend time deciding what to write about. Now WWE also sounds good but I haven't seen it yet. Good luck in your decision!

Seems like your main question is on reading. I tend not to pick an actual reading program. We use Alpha Phonics to teach how to read and Bob Books for extra practice and fun. One of my dc did an ETC bk and enjoyed it; but it was an extra to phonics lessons. We did lots of read alouds and books on tape (some with the beep for them to turn the pages and read along with). Once they are reading then we continue read alouds and pick books that go along with history or science or general interest. Add discussion to that and that's all I planned for reading. I am, however, adding in some time for Reading Detective CDs as it's a good way to have fun and prep for standardized test type questions. hth

We didn't complete it in a year as expected but then again we had 101 interruptions to our schooling. :glare: It takes about 10-15 min per day. With 150 lessons just divide 150 by the number of days you can/want to do spelling to get the number of weeks it will take to complete the bk. hth

Looks like you have a good plan to work with. If you are picking BF Ancients, I would suggest that your other kids also study the Ancients this year. It will make your prep time shorter and easier not to mention the discussions between the kids more interesting! Just pick something at their level for the same time period. Logic. If you want to do Mindbenders, then start with A1 and work your way up to B1. That's what we did. I think B1 maybe too hard to start with. Since I have multiple kids here I picked the CD version. It's cheaper inthe long run and the kids really liked it since it included short games as rewards. hth

My 13yo is similar. I liked the idea of Megawords but she was still having problems with one syllable words and that focuses on multi syllable words. I picked Apples Daily Spelling Drills. I liked that there is no placement worries, you start at the beginning. It teaches all the rules, exceptions, etc. There is also lots of review. It is very easy to use, pick up and go and there are only 2 books to get thru. I've seen improvement, we are about 1/2 way thru the first book. I am also having my dd write more, which helps also. I allow her to ask me for spelling help often (for emails too) and I tend to answer in groups of syllables and phonograms and give rules where I can (okay she hates this part but the alternative is for her to look it up :D ). I don't know if we will use the 2nd book or try Megawords. That program seems interesting also. Another option is Sequential Spelling. We tried that once and my dd really liked it. *I* however kept dropping the ball. With 3 other kids to bouce around to, we didn't do SS daily and that's a problem, so we dropped it. I was also worried that it had so many book to get thru and my dd was already in 6th. Although now I see they have a bk for older students so it would only be 2 bks to get thru. I'll probably ask her which way she wants to go next. BUT first she'll have to finnish Apples Daily Spelling Drills as it has really helped with all the basic words. hth

Aesop A teaches some grammar and you reinforce it by finding it within the model. No additional grammar text is needed. Aesop B continues this and introduces diagramming near the middle/end of the book. They recommend Mary Daly's First Book of Diagramming for help with this if needed. Homer A & B teach even more grammar concepts. You will need a separate grammar text. Their books follow Harvey's Grammar but you can use something else. Many use Rod & Staff Eng. Diagramming is still used but so is parsing. The next book, Diogenes, continues the grammar some more. I believe the study of grammar is finished in this book. The theory in Herodotus is formal logic w/Traditional and Material Logic. Plutarch teaches Ceremonial rhetoric. Demosthenes covers syllogistic logic, Aristotle’s Rhetoric, & Corbett’s Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student. hth

looks like you covered everything. I gather Book of Think is informal logic? I hadn't heard of that one before. Roots and Fruits is vocab? I gather your dc is done with spelling? (wish my rising 8th grader was) Did you skip Latin or choose not to do it?

My oldest is 13. So far we've done the first 2 CDs from Mindbenders to teach some deductive reasoning. Last year we did most of Fallacy Detective aloud to together and we all enjoyed it (12/13 yo dd, 11 yo ds with 8yo ds popping in because he wanted to hear it also). I'm hoping to finnish FD this summer. I'm looking at a local Debate class for my 13yo dd and Teaching Textbooks for the 12yo ds. If she has time I'll have dd do both! :D I did plan on the formal logic books by this year but we are really enjoying the informal logic studies. I think it will only help in many ways to spend another year on this. We are also doing Classical Writing which will also go over formal logic in their Herodotus bk which we will get to in about 3 yrs. So hopefully we will have done some formal logic by then but if not we'll do it alongside CW.

If you want to find the best program for you to teach and your daughter to learn from let's first go over what you too need/want and what types of programs are out there. You can eliminate lots of programs easily after you see ways that they are similar and ways they differ. With math, programs tend to fall under spiral, incremental, or mastery methods and then within that some offer DVDs with an instructor for each lesson. Spiral prgms tend to teach a new topic each day, give some work on it, then give more problems that review past work. If the student doesn't get the new info that day it's considered okay since they will see it again and again in the reviews. I think Abeka and RightStart are spiral. Incremental prgms are like spiral but they (I think) they teach in smaller increments... breaking a new topic down into parts for a lesson. I think Saxon is incremental. Mastery based programs will teach new topic and work on it for a few days before teaching the next new topic. Review is included as the lessons do build on each other. Some do include separate review but it is used as as review of material already mastered not as a tool to learn the material. Some progrms that use this method are: Math U See, Singapore, Mastery Math. There are others but I can't think of them at the moment. There are also other differences. Some come with an instructor via a DVD like Chaulkdust & VideoText. Lial's Basic College Math is a mastery program that some use to finnish up arithmatic and do PreAlegra (all in one book). I found it a good one to use when switching programs because it covers all arithmatic after learning the basic facts. So it starts at about 5th or 6th grade level. You can pretty easily skim thru anything your dc already knows or take the test and skip it without worrying about gaps. After Lial's BCM you can get the next Lial's bk on Algebra or pick a different one. hth

:lol: Now that's funny. But I don't think I could do it. All that work up in flames... so soon? um my luck we pick work that isn't needed until after the burning! ....and what about the homeschool police :confused: I won't have any proof of teaching my kids! :glare: :D But seriously, I really don't like crafty type work either. However I did help my 11yo ds do our first lapbook this year... all on our own. He did it on a Boy Scouts field trip to the local court room and included info for his Law Merit badge (which he still didn't finnish :glare:). It came out okay, he liked it, dh was impressed, but I still think it took more time to put it together then a simple report with pictures would have taken. I may try again with my younger kids (but I'm not looking forward to it! ;) );).

A good book for understanding the progym or the method Classical Writing uses is: Composition in the Classical Tradition by Frank J. D'Angelo . http://www.amazon.com/Composition-Classical-Tradition-Frank-DAngelo/dp/0023271418/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1G2Z7LVV5IS6R&colid=1X9YRSTJ00QUU It is a bit high priced but you might be able to find it at your library. Mine doesn't have it though :glare:, so I just might try to do that 'inter library loan' (ILL) thing to get a copy without spending all those $$. I've heard it's a great book. hth

I've run into this argument before also (mainly with myself). I'm hoping to put my 8th gr dd and 7th gr ds into Aesop/Homer for Older Beginners this year. This way will can get thru all of Homer in one year instead of two. I'd really like them to get thru as much of CW as possible before graduating. I made a similar post on the CW message board where I was asking what to do now that we have fallen behind. http://lene.proboards15.com/index.cgi?board=think&action=display&thread=1208 I'm also a bit worried about not teaching the essay till later when it seems to be a big focus in modern education... see latest standarized testing and SATs. However the key is to learn it well... and I still think CW will teach it better then most other prgrms. Which brings me to a concern you raised: what to do with writing assignments from other subjects that are beyond the skills taught in your current level of CW? I have a post on the CW message boards on where I was asking about Logic stage type questions and writing assignments from other subjects and how CW can help. http://lene.proboards15.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=184 Couple of choices: teach the needed skills separately, drop the writing assignment and just research and discuss OR change the writing assignment from the other curriculum so that it only requires the skills learned so far in CW. For example instead of writing a compare/contract paper, write a narrative on one side... retell the story. The write a 2nd narrative of the other side of the issue. Discuss the comparisions. Maybe make a chart or something. {Okay, now I'm still waiting to talk to dh about all this and see if he agrees with me. :D } hths

Yes you can do it. The whole CW program was intended to be done with your own planning. The workbooks and instructor's guides eliminate the planning on your part to make it easier to use. I started off doing Aesop w/o the wkbks. It did work pretty well for awhile. I picked a model to use... paying attention to their guidlines for this. Then I went thru the core to detemine what to cover each day using my model. There's a simple pattern for each week for the analysis, so this gets to be routine. Day 1- read to them, go over vocab and background info (author, genre, history?), ?discuss other things like moral lessons, bible, etc. Then have dc read it aloud. done. Day 2- pick some words for spelling analysis, etc. It helps to make a photo copy of the model for each day so they can work right on it. I think I just made a spread sheet (I do these often). First column was the name of the model. Then one column for each "DAY" of work. Pay attention to the different levels within each day as discussed in the core. It will help you to move thru them. Remember that the Aesop core is used for both Aesop A and Aesop B workbooks which are done in TWO years. Now if you're starting with one older then 3rd grade then you might want to skip a few levels or go thru them quicker. That's the benefit of not using the wkbks! Also note the suggestions for the writing projects. They also progress thru levels. I ended up switching to the wkbks because I was doing the planning for 3 kids at different levels and couldn't keep up. hth

I've run into this a bit. I was questioning my 2 kids on history one day and they just couldn't remember the name of the person I was asking about (actually neither could I for the moment). Then the little guy (3 or 4 at the time) answered from the next room correctly! We didn't even know he had been listening! We all had a great laugh! It's a memorable moment for us in our homeschool. I try to limit the competition by asking the younger ones questions like what, who and leave the why and how questions for the older ones. It might also help to assign different types of activities for the different kids. Maybe have one do coloring and another do sculpting, or they could do their work on different aspects like people, events, mapping, timeline, etc. Then their work can go together to make a more complete book?

I'm thinking of putting my 2 oldest into this next year. What is the benefits of organizing a notebook like option 1? I've seen this type of thing a few times and I know i must be missing something. Is it easier to study for tests this way? I tend to think that grouping it by module would be better for studying later... :confused: tia :lurk5: