I've only seen some of the IEW tapes and I've only used Classical Writing Aesop and Homer so far. I like that CW not only teaches grammar within the model but also then shows and practices how to use it in their writing assignment. As they learn the different parts of grammar they also learn the rhetoric of when to use it... so it's not just a vague connection. As they progress thru the program logic is also incorporated as well as more rhetoric. Here are some posts from the CW people: http://lene.proboards15.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=164 http://home.att.net/~MikeJaqua/CWFAQ.html (see #13 in here where they compare CW to modern writing methods) hth

Sorry to post on this again but I'm still stuck. On one hand I don't think we have the time for Omni, on the other hand every time I consider what else I'd want to do I find myself comparing it to Omni. I need pick up and go history and lit for 7th and 8th graders. Timeperiod: modern world history or American history. I'm tempted to use what I have and put together my own (I do have Guerber books and Teaching the Classics). However I also need to prep for high school rigor and I worry I won't ask enough of them. (Although my biggest worry is that we bomb again and not get to all our work! hopefully mono won't strike again) I'm trying to see how Omni can fit into our schedule. I'm looking at this for my rising 7th and 8th graders. I know it includes history, lit and theology but I think that is if you do both primary and secondary readings. From what I've read here, that's about 4 hours a day (2hrs for primary and ?2 for secondary?) ... we don't have that much time. I'm thinking we should stay under 7 hours per day plus breaks! hmm, we should be able to fit in 2hrs per day, so if we just did the primary... does it count for history/theology? Do I still need to consider something else for literature? If so that would be too much. Oh speaking of literature, does Omni teach literature analysis or literature terminology like Lightening Lit? We haven't done much of this and I know they will need these type of skills as well.... although CW does do some of this also... Thanks. In case it helps, here is the other stuff we'll be using(dd rising 8th, ds rising 7th): Writing/Grammar both -Classical Writing Homer w/Harveys Elem Grammar Math dd -Lial's BCM ds -Mastering mathematics & ?Challenge Math spelling (needed) dd -Apples Daily spelling ds -How to Spell Vocab both -?VfCR (Latin may get dropped) Science both -?Apologia Gen Sci {co-op if I can find it} Logic dd -Debate Class (homework, 5hrs/wk) ds -?Teaching Toolbox and ?Chess club Art dd -Drawing co-op ds -?Draw squad at home music dd -?Choir co-op (no homework) ds -?piano lessons again???? extra dd -soccer team ds -scouts Plus I may have them memorize Am geography and John 1 with their younger brother who takes Classical Conversations --Foundations. oh, dd would love to do a foreign language with a co-op or rosetta stone but I just don't know how to fit it all in! Perhaps I can get her to swap out choir... oh but then I'd need time for homework and studying. :confused1:

I wish I had more specific questions. Fact is I'm just really confused on what to use next year. My younger son, rising 3rd grader, will be doing American History with CC-Foundations program. So I thought it would be good to do either American History with my rising 7th and 8th graders, or the last part of a world history study like Omni III or TOG 4 or something. I really think we need something pick up and go, I think TOG offers too many choices for us at the moment. I'm worried that Omni III would require more hours then we will have to offer. Thus I began considering just going thru one of these two texts. I would also like to get my kids to read more primary sources so that was why I asked about that. Thanks for the lead to abebooks, I forgot about them. I still have a lot to consider. I do have Story of the 13 Colonies and Story of the Great Republic so maybe we'll just work thru them. Thanks for the feedback on these books, it did help.

I'm tempted by Omnibus III for my rising 7th and 8th graders but I'm also worried that we won't have enough time for it. I've thought of going thru Streams of Civilizations II but I'm now also interested in the book Omni uses, Western Civ because I've heard it includes primary source text. Does Streams of Civ also include this? Can anyone compare these two texts? tia

I hesitate to post this idea because I haven't used it but ... Have you hear about the Victory Drill book? It's a book I considered awhile back when my dd was having problems. We ended up just getting the phonogram cards to SWR and memorizing them... she really hated the idea of that program so we went with How to Spell / How to Teach Spelling. But the Victory Drill book is basically a phonics book that goes over how to read and then practices and practices. I think they repeat a page till they can read it within a certain amount of time.

I really liked what I read about SWR and wanted to try it years ago... but I also realized that my dd would hate it. I ended up with How to Spell workbooks and How to Teach Spelling TE because it follows the similar phonograms and rules but uses a workbook approach. It also doesn't have any tests, just dictation that reviews all past lessons. In fact the lessons even get reviewed. There is one TE and only 4 wkbks for all grades.

I've used Mindbenders CDs A1/A2 and A3/A4 with two of my kids and will use it again for my next 2 kids. It was easy to figure out how to do these types of problems. They do start out easy enough too 'get it'. The basic instructions for these types of problems is to 'X' out the combinations that you are told are false, then the ones that you can determine are false and you should be left with the correct answer. Once you play with a few simple ones you get the process. Then the clues just get a bit more complicated and/or the puzzle gets larger. My kids liked the reward games that followed. We used the hints sometimes but it reduces your score so we tried to stay away. I debated between these and simple logic books but *I* tend to like to focus on one concept at a time. With these, we really learned about deductive logic. Now we are learning about fallacies with Fallacy Detective. I'm also considering ThinkAnalogy CD from Bright Minds ( http://http://www.brightminds.us/getProductDetails.do?id=08931&code=h&model=08931SCH&r_section_to_display=product_sample_page.jsp ). But that's getting off the point. Mindbenders worked fine for us. It did get hard near the end of A4, but a challenge is good.

hmmm, when was the last time he actually did basic subtraction? My dc also hit mind blocks like this occationally. They even forget how to borrow. But a quick review (without me going crazy) and they were on their way. Other options that I've found helpful: 1. Use graph paper to keep it all lined up or turn notebook paper sideways for columns. 2. Use different color pen/pencils when doing long division. First time dividing use one color for the number on top, the product underneath and the difference, then change color for the next pass thru. 3. Switch from division to repeated subtraction to really understand what is happening. This REALLY helped my dd. So 1,000,000 / 5,280 can be simply done as 1,000,000 minus 5280. Get the difference and minus 5280 again. Keep going till you can't subtract a full 5280. If you didn't get to 0 then that last number is your remainder. Then count the number of TIMES you did the subtraction. That is your main answer. hth

I'm looking at the same time period. Well actually I'm deciding between Am history or World history-last part of a cycle. I'm considering: Omnibus III (love it but I'm scared it might be too much for my kids) Streams of Civilization II Story of the 13 Colonies & Story of the Great Republic & ?? I'm also very lost on all this.

I have a 13yo dd who really couldn't spell any better 1 to 2 years ago, but she is finally doing better. So what helped? Well I think it was mostly the increase in writing.... but here's her story on this: We started with Spelling Workout when she was young but it flopped pretty quickly. Then, we did How to Spell workbooks with the dictation from How to Teach Spelling TE. We did this for a few years but she really didn't like this program at all. I eventually gave in and tried Sequential Spelling. Well this one she really liked but with three other kids I just wasn't consistent with it. It wasn't getting done daily and I really worried about getting thru the whole program. I then tried Apples Daily Spelling Drills. I like the return to spelling rules and she liked that it was easy to do and could be done on her own. This is where we are now. However she now has an outside writing class and an email account and we sometimes work on CW prgm at home. So she is writing a lot more. Yes, I let her use the spell check... but spelling it right is still faster. For email she used to just shorten words but then even her friends preferred that she spell words all the way out. So now she is typing all the time and this is really helping. She still asks me how to spell words but instead of telling her to go look it up, I might ask how she thinks it should be spelled and/or I will spell it out but break it up by phonogram and note any spelling rules. For example, 'dictation' is spelled dic ta (a says its name at the end of a syllable) ti (says /sh/) on. Drives her crazy but her spelling is improving so I'm not stopping ;). hth

I use CW here with 6th and 7th graders. So far we are up to Aesop B and Homer A. I really love this program for many reasons but mainly for how it incorporates grammar in the lower levels and logic and rhetoric in the upper levels. I can't wait to start my 3rd grader next year. I'm finding Aesop very easy to use. The workbooks make it pick up and go. We just do the next thing. There is little to nothing for me to prep ahead of time. hth

Oh LOVED that story here also. I saw it on the list of Great books and on a list of great literature for math. So when I found the audio to it I just picked it up. We listened to the story about 2 years ago when my kids were 11, 9, and 6 years old. We all completely enjoyed it. This year we even got to see a play about it. My older two immediately compared it to the book we heard and agreed that the book was soo much better. I can't wait to actually read it for myself as I think I missed much (I'm not very good listening as a I tend to dose). My favorite part to point back to is the dole drums... My kids drift there all too often!

:confused:bump

:bigear: Has anyone actually used the Activities for the AlAbacus bk? I've thought of this a few times but haven't taken the plunge. RS sounds great but with 3 school age kids grades 2, 6, and 7 & one 3yo who are all spacey and need/want constant attention to get any work done, I'm afraid I wouldn't get to spend time playing the games. I do have the RS Math Games because I intended to supplement with them but we haven't pulled them out too much. (Mainly because I haven't learned them in advance... I did just order the new CD that shows how to play the games so maybe that will really help us/me.) When I think of switching or supplementing do I also consider Singapore. It seems similar but less teacher intensive. The there's Challenge Math which I've gotten but haven't used to often yet. Anyway I was just reading thru this thread, rekindling my interest in adding more depth to my dc's math ed. Right now they are doing well enough, learning how and some of the why's. They can even do some of the math faster in their heads then I can (and I have a BS in Computer Science w/ a minor in Math). I just think my younger two have a potential in math that we are not getting to with our current program. So, back to my actual question: has anyone actually used the Activities for AlAbacus as a supplement? How has it worked out? tia

Aw, poor guy. Looks like that screen time really backed him up in math! It happens here too. Sounds like he needs to stay away from screens for awhile, at least until he can get back to where he was before the incident. I'd let him use the abacus since he'll most likely have extra time on his hands while all screen time is on hold (computer, TV, hand held computer games, etc). In fact, he should use it for everything, evertime he thinks about numbers... like deciding how much time is left till lunch, how much time till he can go out to play, how many extra steps he as to take because he forgot to do something, how long till bed time, etc. :lurk5:

:iagree: yeah, I noticed that yesterday and thought I was at the wrong site! It through me for a moment but yes, it looks good.

Good question. Let's see. My older kids are 13 and 11. We've done some Mindbenders and we are going thru Fallacy Detective right now. I think their deductive skills have improved but I don't really have something concrete to show for it. Perhaps in some detective type shows. I know their ability to detect a fallacy has drastically improved; this can be seen easily when they watch the news with their dad. "Hey he didn't answer the question! That was a Red Herring! Red Herring! Red Herring!" hth

For my oldest dd I did R&S Eng 3 then CW. I started doing CW Aesop with R&S Eng 5 but quickly dropped R&S as we were booked and it wasn't really needed. My next ds did FLL and then moved right into CW Aesop without a problem. Although for him I did get the diagramming book they suggested since he didn't get that from R&S like my dd did. My youngest ds is just finnishing up FLL and should move right into CW Aesop next year without a problem. We also do dictation with our spelling program (which I don't drop) and some grammar memorization with Classical Conversations - Foundation program. hth edited to say: I forgot to mention that my oldest two also did narrations for history and sometimes science. My youngest did some with FLL, some with history. All three also prepared 3 min oral presentations for Classical Conversations - Foundations prgm, although sometimes they did write it out first. FYI: When my kids are real young, narrations were them retelling something to me and I wrote or typed it in. Next step was for them to trace some or all of it. Next step was to copy some or all of it. Next step was to construct an outline or list of what to cover with me and then write/type it up. After this they were able to just go get it done.

I know most folks are trying to decide which to use for formal logic but I've also seen some go through both sets of texts. I know their approaches are a bit different but do they also cover different skills? Is there really a benefit to doing both sets of texts (other then more practice)? tia

1. I wanted to bump this up to try again. 2. I wanted to edit it to say that I have VfCR A and I'm considering Word Roots CDROM. So I guess I'm comparing a study like that to what is included in CW. TIA

One more note of comparison: Biblioplan and TOG follow a 4 year cycle. Truthquest takes more years to get thru a cycle... 8 books I think but you go at your own pace.

I have HST+ and used it early last year for a bit. I gave up as my kids really didn't like the way it outputted the info for them. We are very much a do the next thing type of group so pairing lessons with dates wasn't helping. I did like having it all in there for me but couldn't keep up with it. My bad. I'm considering trying again. I wonder if anyone can tell me if they changed how the program outputs the info? I know they've made changes (they always do) I just don't know what they worked on. tia

Two other options for you: How to Teach Spelling (TE) w/How to Spell (wkbks) It teaches similar rules and phonograms as SWR & AAS but uses a workbook approach. There are no tests, just dictation to practice and test with. Apples Daily Spelling Drills (for older kids) This also goes over the rules, and over them. hth

I've been using this program for a few years with 3 kiddos. YES it is simple to teach. YES a child may use it independently YES is uses a mastery approach hmm, it doesn't spiral per say but it does review past concepts within more advanced problems or word problems ?Abstract thinking skills? well that one I'm not so sure on. It's very much a 'this is how to do this' type of instruction. (then again there are more manipulatives with this program then I'm using) and there are diagrams ... like when they teach fractions it's pretty well done, same for decimals and place value. On one hand I really like this program because it is clear and understandable and easy for the kids to pick up and go. On the other hand as my kids got/get to the later portions of the mult/div/fract books they started to slip up more. I'm still trying to decide if it is the program or my kids. I've already moved my oldest out to Lial's BCM last year (6th grade) mainly because she just didn't like the program and I got tired of fighting. My ds is now having problems but I don't know if it's him (It could be). He is getting poor grades but seems to really know what to do and how to do it... ug. My youngest in the program is now 8 and zooming thru. He's in 2nd grade but almost done with 3rd grade level (according to the grade chart in the Mastering Mathematics Parents Manual). I do like the idea of doing one book at a time. We did do that for awhile but stopped because we decided to do end of year testing and thus needed to get to "grade level" in math. Now we just bounce books up to the end of their current grade level (or move beyond as time permits). This also helps to add more variety for them. FYI: I supplement with additional speed drills like TimezAttack and CalcuLadder (sometimes). We also do the skip counting in CC-Foundations program. I recently bought the Challenge Math and the Primary Challenge Math just to add something different, a bit more on how to think out a problem and more experiance with word problems.... but we haven't used them enough to know if they will help yet. I still look at Singapore Math at times... always wondering if it would be better but I've already bought all the MM books and so long as it isn't broken, I guess we shouldn't really switch. hth

Well so far I'm using Harvey's (but I'll always reserve my right to change my mind! :001_smile: ) Another option that I've always thought might make a great grammar companion to CW is: Junior Analytical Grammar (JAG) or (AG). But I never did get it so I can't speak from experiance.