Just did this in order to loan kinder/1st grade level stuff to SIL for my niece...and found quite a bit. Have avoided any shopping since then! Will be good and go back and use the Latin for Children that we have this year, and the Mammoth Math. Trying to use Rod and Staff again too....I really don't think I need more books...but I do soooooo want them!!!! Erin

I don't know it this helps, but ds 11 is densely dyslexic and good at math/music/science (I don't know about gifted...his LD makes that so hard to see....). We have done a combo of TT (last year did 7) which being audio, and having less writing, allowed more independence, but wasn't conceptual enough on its own, MM (doing parts of 6 right now), and LOF. Kid loves Fred, but does point out that the reading makes it harder for him - at least he CAN read it now!!! The MM is semi- independent, but not completely. Math takes a LONG TIME here - facts are all there, but processing speed is S>>>L>>>O>>>>W>>>>>>>>>so sometimes even he thinks he doesn't remember how to do something. Using more than one program has helped break out from the "I don't know how to do it" mode for us. I have been dithering about pre-algebra for him....Looking at lots of stuff....including MUS. I THINK we'll finish MM 6, do LoF prealgebra with biology (and maybe the next one too), and possibly TT prealgebra too, haven't fully decided about that one....then I'm not sure for algebra. We have (he and I) decided that he is more comfortable really understanding stuff than rushing ahead - and he'd requested to use challenging level texts but not neccessarily go at pace....filling in with others as we go. I think this is part of or a product of his processing speed - he likes to go in deep to things....common with dyslexics, and I think that's why he doesn't really like TT that much - his sister, on the other hand, loved it because it was "easy", and is only now realizing that she's not always learning enough there.... Look at samples with your child, have them do them....he's old enough to have some say - and you might be surprised. I do feel that you can go back and forth between programs easily, so wouldn't worry about that - math is a universal language once you understand it - when kids have trouble with different books/approaches its because they haven't really "gotten" the math in the first place! Erin

My almost 7 year old can wail when faced with something difficult - whether it be school, tying his shoes, violin, cleaning his room, etc....If he doesn't want to try to figure it out "Its too hard, I CAN'T DO IT", etc. Same kid knows his multiplication tables, so "too hard" is all in the eyes of the beholder. He truely sometimes "thinks" he can't - and mostly doesn't want to.... The plan of "if you need to cry go to your room, I'll help you finish your work when you are ready", along with making sure he's not overtired, hungry, etc...usually eventually works. Although I would much prefer to just give up and let him play more, I don't really think that's right for him - he can do the work, he's very smart, he's got the writing and listening skills, and loves to learn. He is anxious to play the songs his siblings can, to read the books they read, and is actually the best at cleaning his room - he just doesn't WANT to work hard at that momment!!! If I let them "give up" whenever something got hard, I'd be setting them up to fail. I certainly don't think 1-2 hours of "school" at 6 is too much, and especially in the one on one setting of homeschooling. I would make sure that the child is matched to the curriculum to a certain extent - and make sure that schoolwork is like the rest of being a kid...sometimes lots of fun, sometimes lots of work, but with clear boundaries of what is expected. It helps that my wailer is my youngest - he sees the others with MORE work than him - he knows both what is expected and also that with perserverance he'll meet some goals. Does your child see the point of hard work with school work? Can you point out goals already met? Music practice and sports have been key for us in the "if you work really hard look what you can do" area! Erin

Just pointing out that Ipads are the rage with special needs kids in the schools here in Oregon...."everyone is doing it"....likely because there are some great apps.....I'm miffed that they are giving an Ipad to a patient of mine, but stopping her speech therapy for the summer - so she'll be entertained but still unintelligible....but in general I think its a great thing. DS #1 has a touch....he uses it for audiobooks and is playing around some with Dragon dictation - not sure if it will really help much... but I have a friend who's sn child is very visual - and the Ipad really helps him.... I keep losing stuff when I try to sync - DS #1 won't let me have his touch anymore as I kept erasing his Paganini concertos and accidently loading his brothers Veggie Tails and sisters American Girl books instead....afraid what I'd do with real apps!!! Erin

Sounds VERY much like a reading/Language based learning difficulty - any kid who loves books (and if he listens to audiobooks and wants you to read to him often, then he loves literature), but resists reading these things themselves, plus prefers reading "easy" stuff, likely is working VERY HARD when he reads, so its no fun.....now I'd speak differently if he didn't like books... Your child may be an auditory learner, as well. Many kids with language based differences/mild dyslexia will do wel lwith early reading, especially with sight word stuff like Dr Suess, and may stay "at grade level" on testing, but after about 3rd grade level will struggle to progress...even if their auditory skills are much higher (ie liking audiobooks/WTM suggestions). Could be a vision thing too. In any case, I would look into it a bit, and then encourage assigned reading, whatever for fun, and if he's auditory, allow that style. Sometimes these kids/adults are able to compensate but often never are the voracious readers their interests would lead us to expect. I still have to tell my 11 year old to read signs - he just doesn't do it naturally. He reads at grade level, comprehends much higher, loves literature/audiobooks at high school level, and read alouds, but reading is not natural for him. For his sister and I the words just speak - for him he still has to de-code. After years of tutoring! But we can't so some things he can!!! Erin

We always buy the 5 day (can't pass up the books....) and get it done as quick as we get it done....which usually means a core in less than a calendar year. We have lots of "other" subjects, and do lots of music and gymnastics, plus I work, so we quickly dropped the exact IG schedule...I do try to do a "week" of the 5 day in about 7 days, but sometimes adjust - little guy gets his core readings in blocks, and at bedtime, while history we keep close to a week at a time Core B right now), and the big kids we just plug on, with goals set for quarters...as in "finish week 24 by September). All that is to say that if you want all the books, get the 5 day, and modify as you see fit! I can't imagine the 2 cores you have chosen being further condensed into the 4 day schedule....but as I mentionned, we are schedule challenged here and school "all over the place and all the time" - especially our SL, as that part hardly feels like school to the kids!!! Their math, grammar, science and writing is much more regimented...history/reading and read alouds are practically "family time". Core 5, however, will be different because of the EHE...we shall see... Erin

Call it K and do whatever fits your kid. One of mine did 2nd grade math and 1st grade LA for his "k" year, one did almost all 2nd grade work. One didn't get a real K year (did Waldorf), and then went into a combo of 1st and 2nd grade stuff....its really up to you, you know!!! I agree that at least phonics based spelling (we are starting AAS here this fall) is important even with early readers. Some are also great visual spellers, but not all by any means...dd just turned 9 and although she spells better than her dyslexic brother, she reads at a high school level and spells at low grade level....so don't neglect it! (Just a word from one who's been there, done that, wouldn't recommend you do it too....) erin

In general, my kids have loved 80% of the SL books...son more than daughter. If you have a girl, the American Girl books are excellent. the Jean Fritz books are easy for both ages mentionned and fun and imformative. For your older the SL read alouds would be great books to get from the library...SL tends to use Newberry winners, etc so most are easy to find or have ordered... Erin

We stopped SOTW 3 halfway, and have done SL 3 and 4 to concentrate on American History - my oldest will next do Eastern Hemisphere (SL and classical add ons), then hit the 4 year cycle all the way through in middle/high school with another year for high school level American History/Government and maybe a year for whatever he wishes to focus on history wise...this has been working for us - I just didn't feel they were getting really enough depth with the cycle alone, especially depth in American History...we have loved our "side path", but will re-do SOTW with the younger and the oldest and middle are likely to listen in... So I guess basically it will be the classic cycle twice and the rest of the years American/Eastern Hemisphere and interest driven for us (until I change the plan!!!) erin

We've used SL science, and love the books, but the experiments either didn't get done or seemed silly (not matching with what you are reading sometimes, etc.... WTM method didn't work at all for us. Loved R.E.A.L. science for this age group - did life and earth in past, have chemistry, haven't gotten it together yet....experiments do require some prep, but only once a week and really good for household work....uses the scientific method too, which I liked. I thought K12 looked rigorous but BORING...but that's just me, and I was looking at the middle school stuff.... We are loving PLATO science for the 5th grade level and up - but it does need seperate experiments... Erin

Reminds me of my now 8 year old - when 2 she sat on Santa's lap and asked for "a chocolate velociraptor" for Christmas. DS now 11 when meeting his soccer team a couple of years ago, as they went around the circle asking what they liked to do best for fun (picture kid after kid mentionning their favorite video game), DS says "play my violin".... Its all about exposure.... Erin

loving Plato Science over here - we do add in note-taking/outlining before they take the mastery test, but otherwise its sign in and go...and nicely rigorous but still enjoyable. We do do a lab based program at the local university extension during the "school year", as well, but I am thrilled with Plato. (Presently using Earth and Life Sciences for my 2 oldest). Erin

One more vote for continuing - we lighten up a bit to enjoy sunshine, but in general, for ALL my kids, not just the one with LDs, I hate all the forgetting that happened even when we took one month off.....dd almost 9 is complaining for the first time this year, however, as all her gym friends are finishing up on school....oh well, I can't imagine letting her spend 18 hours a week at the gym if we didn't homeschool and go year round - and I told her that...tough love, I guess, but there has to be balance. For ds with LDs, he just needs more time with everything - so it takes more time...not much we can do about that other than do it, or change our expectations, which even he sees isn't what he wants....wish it were different, but its not! Erin

Those early talkers can really surprise you - on the other hand, my middle was using complicated sentences at 15 months - like screaming "I Want a Popsicle" at 2 am, and at 12 months when a nice elderly lady mentionned how pretty she was yelling "NO, Bad Lady!!!" I was much happier when her younger brother, who also has the "Irish temperment", only screamed in long babbling sentences when upset at the same age - when he did talk at almost 2, he never did single words...just from babble into paragraphs...he's the math head now, and she's the language kiddo in the house.... Enjoy each gift/phase - don't doubt what your kiddo can do - my oldest, who has language based learning difficulties, could identify colors at 12 months - even understanding that yellow came in different shades...kids brains are amazing, and milestones/grade equivilants, etc don't scratch the surface of it all.... Sound like you have an exciting challenge on your hands...

We have used McRuffy LA in various ways through 3rd grade. I find it amusing that people feel the spelling is emphasized - as I basically skip that part! It is very workbooky - and I supplement for my youngest (who has done K, 1st and is doing 2nd) with FLL and a RFH, as well as SL readers. We will be doing AAS too this year...why am I using the McRuffy, then you may ask? The phonics/reading.... The phonics/readers are very solid, a bit above grade level as you move through, good vocabulary, silly stories they don't mind reading (which was not the case with Pathway, or R&S), and more structured than SL alone. My oldest is dyslexic, and it really helped him to use the readers, and the full 3rd grade phonics, while being tutored - he is one of those self-corrected dyslexics (not a good thing), who guessed his way through chapter books at grade level but couldn't always read single sentences out of context - hammering in extra phoncis helped. I wanted to make sure that youngest got stepwise, consistant phonics, and so have stuck with the McRuffy. He's doing great with it, and it takes us about 45 minutes max a day...I fully expect him to be reading at 4th grade level at least and comfortable with it, with good phonics skills and spelling well by the end of their 3rd grade curriculum - he's well on the way. McRuffy is cheap...the stories are wholesome and (in 3rd) Christian while being "current", and "gets it done"...just wouldn't stand alone in this house. Erin

My older son used MM 5 fractions section (MM4 didn't cover everything), and LoF for extra fun, as a supplement to the fractions in TT7. Definitely use the MM for the instruction - its excellent. Filled in where TT didn't and for us LoF doesn't give him enough practice - but he loves it and school books that are loved are used in this house, just not always as the spine!!! The MM book just on fractions is probably perfect, we have the light blue series, so pick and choose between levels with the kids not doing straight MM. Erin

We've put it aside and picked it back up again...again! Over all, I would prefer to use FLL all the way, and maybe MCT...but my older one is dyslexic and has mostly language based "production" trouble now, so original writing, although improving, is not coming quickly (although he does have good grammar skills and can memorize anything...thanks FLL...) Middle child needs to be held accountable for the details of her work - and FLL simply didn't do that, what with limited exercises and so much oral work. Lastly, I have a third child hitting 2nd grade and working above level, who needs time too...we needed to go back to a grammar program that fostered independence. I had done R&S 2 and 3 (english) with the olders years ago - 3 was solid but boring and drudgery - especially for my son with LDs, which were undiagnosed, and unremediated at the time. He learned alot, but grammar took hours a day. Level 2 was too easy for my then 6 year old daughter...and felt like busy work. We just started them on 4 and 5 this week, for the above reasons. Strengths I already am reminded of are the clear instructions and general independent work, the lessons are not really that long, if you have the level correct for your child (ds now at just turned 11 can do it in 30 minutes, even with corrections - but I also have him do all of some exercises, and only evens or odds of others, depending upon how close to mastery he is), and at these levels there is a writing lesson each week, but it is clear what they need to do - with lots of instruction about structure and why to include things, etc... For dd, we are focusing on punctuation, capitalization, spelling, etc, while learning grammar - she is great at writing long stories - but couldn't be bothered with that stuff. Yes, the kids groaned. Yes, especially the 11 year old complains about the religious bent (we are Episcopalian, so its pretty conservative for us - but we farm, and have always homeschooled, so the work ethic part is fine...). Yes, I know its "alot of chaff with the wheat", but I feel that it is time to just "do it and get it done" in this area for both of them and just like math facts practice, in the end if you copy and correct a gazillion sentences, by golly you'll capitalize your proper nouns and such!!! I don't think I'd personally use it if we did it all orally - FLL is so much better for that type of learning, and so much more "fun" and "language rich". There's a chance I'll drop it after this level and try again for more "fun" LA...we shall see Erin

I think its very common for kids to be accelerated at the "skills" of learning at this age, but not have the maturity that listening to chapter books requires - and actually of my three, the earliest reader and most classically "gifted" one is the one who has taken the longest to really enjoy/retain read alouds of chapter books - but have no fear, she still chose Little Women for her bedtime story at 7 - the original, and listened to it all... She had many other things on her mind when I was reading to her at a younger age, and really couldn't be bothered to sit still and concentrate long enough if the book didn't grab her instantly - whereas her older brother who is our "thinker" (translate"watch the grass grow...") has incredible auditory skills - listened to and discuss the Chronicles of Narnia at age 5 - all of them...and all of 10,000 Leagues Under the Sea at 9 - including all the lists of latin names for fish - I am more like dd and wanted to skip all that part!!! Kids don't fit all in one box, but I do think that using engaging picture books with adult vocab may be a good transition - as well as shorter times of reading - let her pick a subject and find books about it - horses and cats, and fairies come to mind, even my bright one still preferred these - and took a long time before she would finish books at her real level - ie could read 250 pages of a 5-6 grade book at 6, then put it down...drove me crazy!!! again, it needed to be interesting to her... 4 is really young - expose her to lots and wait a bit - let her lead you - keep lots of books around and limit media - listening skills will come along. Also letting her color, sew, build things, etc while listening helps with those busy bee minds... Erin

We did a combination - with ds. When tested at age 9 he had a clear diagnosis of dyslexia, but also very slow processing, and was one of those reading at grade level technically kids, who couldn't always read a sentence out of context. His tutor worked on the phonemic awareness stuff and we continued phonics based instruction...then switched to SL for literature...he cried when he saw the books, but went on to finish EVERY one of the advanced readers...and now is keeping up still. He reads for fun some, but gets very fatigued by his school day, so unfortunately, as reading is still mentally hard work, listens to audiobooks more, once his schooling is done - but is still reading an historical novel/biography in the 4-6th grade level, every 1-2 weeks...can read his middle school science (but definitely benefits from having the option of clicking on "read the question". He always loved books - and figured out the "read along with the audio" thing on his own with the Chronicles of Narnia. I'm not sure his dyslexia is properly remediated - I think we may have started too late...but his other skills and perserverance are kicking in well - I really was torn about the literature based program, but frankly, the SL choices are very engaging and has excellent vocbulary, high interest, and he's learned tons...its been a good fit - but really important to match the readers to the level that a child can really read, not too advanced. The first book he started to read on his own for fun was Harry Potter, but the first one he actually finished was A House at Pooh Corner - which he read off his ITouch to his Border Collie at night...that's the level that was truely easy for him - so I'm ok with that! Erin

I voted maybe - I haven't found co-ops to be super helpful for us - but the kids do take an experimental science class for homeschoolers at the local University Extension, and it has been fantastic - there is NO WAY I could EVER dupicate what they get there - and they both love science, sooooo... I yearn for days without interruptions here - I work 3 days a week, and the kids all play the violin (although I have managed to get most of that in one day next year - will be about 3 hours of lessons in a row, and then orchestra that night for oldest - but at least only one day, and the kids not actually in the lesson will do math or read in the car, etc...they all do competative gymnastics in the evening 2-4 days a week too...so I guess it would have to be a REALLY GOOD co-op to add in here! I do do as much shopping, etc while they are at activities, and we "stay in town" at grandparents house on our busy days so more gets done in between...just really have to use every bit of that time... I have found that the kids really do get plenty of social time as they grow, with gym, violin, science and Sunday school (and each other), so I have stopped worrying about scheduling any of that in - we do go to and have birthday gatherings, an occaisional dinner with friends, etc...don't get me wrong, but as it comes up...social happens! So, in the end, outside activities need to give my kids something important that I CAN'T give them at home...with great adult leaders/teachers and long term benefits. That's why I've gone for professionals here - although the budget does feel it - but again we pick and choose - dropped art classes for a once a week art time with cousins...so its meeting need of art and family (cousin's family really struggling..) And we school year round - kids know they couldn't do all the stuff they want if we didn't...No summer math and LA? NO GYM!!!! Erin

I'd highly recommend going to a recital - see what the beginning students play like, and the advanced students - our teacher actually required that all prospective families (kid and parent) observe 8 times (lessons and recital/performance) before signing up...she expects alot, has taught for 25 years, performs locally herself and has sent many kids to college with music scholarships...but some of her students are NOT brilliant musicians, but do love music - its great to watch them learn too! And the kids love her, and she teaches each kid differently - a homeschool mom's dream come true! It is very critical to have a good beginning - when we had the chance to go to a master class in town with students from other teachers I was actually SHOCKED at some of the technique - and how it really affected the way the kids played - and felt that those kids were being cheated in their lessons...it made me grateful for what we have. (Although I am soooo happy to be finally past Book one with all the kids...I'd be ok without ever hearing Twinkle again...) BTW, my children's teacher charges 25 for a half hour (less for young beginners who get 15 minutes), 37.5 for 45 minutes (Book 2 and 3) and 50 for an hour (book 4 and up) - additional for group classes. We live in small town Oregon, so I know she could charge more elsewhere...what is killing me financially is that oldest son wants 2 hours of lessons a week, plus orchestra, plus the 3000 dollar violin (and we aren't even in full size yet...) and 500 dollar bow....ACKKKKKKK!!! (Don't even mention the cost of Young Musicians camps...the 100 dollars he recently won in a concerto contest really only covered the accompanist, entry fee, and his dinner at Olive Garden to celebrate!) If you can afford a good teacher, go for it - if not, I'd wait. (We didn't start the 2 older kiddos until they were 6 and 7 for this very reason - youngest started at 4, but only because we were "in" with the good teacher then and wanted the "space"...and I think he learned in 3 years what they others learned in one, sooo if I had another, I'd say 6....my oldest has only played for 4 years, but with excellent teaching and his hard work and love of music, has gone quite fast....so a good teacher who really teaches the basics well is much better than MORE YEARS with sub-par teaching. Erin

We have tried one true boxed curriculum (Calvert - can you say boring and tedious-, WTM and now SL from a WTM model...SL really isn't a true boxed curriculum - sure, you can get a full curriculum from them, but most people mix and match - whatever math you like (they do sell singapore), whatever spelling (they have AAS), and whatever LA you like (theirs is optional), as well as electives. What really "makes" (or breaks) SL is the core - which is history, read alouds and readers - which from the American History cores (D) until the high school cores, are tied to the history. Although I personnally overall liked SoTW better than Cores B/C, I LOVE the American History - and I love the books, and I love that I don't HAVE to go to the library, or spend hours searching for readers that match the history, etc. I like having a schedule to work from, although we don't stick to it literally, and I love the character building that is in these books. We are Episcopalian, so have modified the Bible portion of SL, and when reading the mission based books (which I haven't skipped, because my younger kids in particular, love them - oldest is getting a bit cynical at the ripe age of 11...) I simply modify how we discuss them - and we are doing a secular science...but all that stuff (bible, science) is also optional with SL. I was drawn to it for the literature - my younger 2 are good readers, and my middle was quite advanced, but I had trouble getting her interested in reading "harder" books (could read at 5th grade level in 1st, but really only with SL has graduated from flying ponies and fairies to Old Yeller and Sing Down the Moon...). Oldest is dyslexic and I thought carefully about a literature based program, but WTM suggestions for grade level were definitely too hard for him - SL has helped him like to read enough to struggle when it gets hard - got him convinced he could do it... For us, its been great for American History and I think I'll use it for Eastern Hemisphere studies, then probably back to full WTM...but it doesn't work for everyone, and I would say especially if try to do it all... Erin

TT may be a great idea - it still has lot of review/spiral, and less writing. We switched to MM after 5/4...went back a level to their grade 4, and slogged through it together - now things are MUCH better...I hate the way saxon is easy,boring, easy, boring then super hard at the end of each book...my perfectionist with LDs would be cruising along, then be paralyzed with his inability to grasp a new concept a day... TT also teaches them to correct their work right away - if they get it wrong they get the "I'm sorry, that's not right", and a chance to try again. I have mine call me each time that happens, and I watch them do it - to see if its a stupid mistake or concept...over the year that's made a huge difference with calculation errors and diligence. I also expect a 90% average to move on to the next level - so if we aren't getting one, I supplement AT THE TIME of the problem...mostly MM or drill, LoF, stuff like that. Math really needs to be understood to move on. Almost all kids can get through pre-algebra, with a good understanding, if given a chance, and who knows, with the right program and proper tutoring if needed (after full testing, I'd say...) your child may really thrive! Erin

Having done WTM for several years, then switched to SL for American history (Cores 3 and 4, with littlest doing early cores too), I would say that SL is WAY better for literature (ie what the kids read) for us then SOTW was (really engaged them in the books and history), and I loved the concetration on America. Felt that SOTW didn't really give them "enough" there...and for my kids (oldest is dylexic and bright - couldn't independently read WTM book list, but could understand them as read alouds, middle was working a year or 2 ahead...) SL got them reading for learning - with joy, and talking about the tie in of their history with life... I perfer WTM for the Ancient/Middle first cycle, and plan to continue through more cycles with more emphasis on classics in high school than SL gives...but again, felt that for 3-5 grade and American History in particular, it really was fantastic. The issue about different books going at different times is really a "no-brainer", most people mix and match SL order to fit their family. Some books the IG schedule really does make the most sense for us, some we "change up". It's funny - I never saw any issue with the forums...but I'm fairly new to that! Erin

MM is HARD!!!! It is also great at really cementing concepts, but if a child is still confusing 6+1=7 with 16 or 61, they simpy don't REALLY have the idea of number symbols and a one to one correspondance with value...any math program that relies on anything other than rote memorization in that instance is going to be a struggle...UNLESS this example you gave is just silliness...but I think you'd know if it was - my almost 7 year old can spend hours saying he "can't do it!", but no one who works with him more than an instant believes him... the fact that you mentionned your child can't do memory matching card games well makes me think that memory is not cemented - this may be purely developmental at this age, but will make math, which does rely on memory of both concepts and facts, very difficult. To put it in perspective - if you stick with MM, you really can go to pre-algebra or algebra after MM 6 - so you really should take off the "grade level" and give them a break, work on memory, maybe through story telling, sequencing games, creative songs, music, etc, and number concepts in real life (less/more, manipulatives, cooking, etc...). I would say, start up in the fall - see if you can re-do a few of the concept sections (as review, after a "summer off"), then go as fast as they can really handle it. MM2 really steps up the mental math, with tons of borrowing and carrying in multiple step word problems - you will be sorry if you go too fast with this curriculum , IMHO. We've tried multiple curriculums, and I really think MM is very solid. We mix it up more for ease than need. My math whiz went from Saxon 2 (last few lessons) back to MM 1 and has just plowed through, now in MM 3, so you could back up with something else, if you wish. I also give them a certain amount of math (30-45 minutes at that age, or 1-2 pages, etc...maybe less in your case) and when its done (well), we are done. Stick to that, and the complaining decreases, and you can really see what is understood and what's not. Hang in there - you have may years yet, and some of math just takes time... Erin