Heather in Neverland Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 "Back in the day" a Bible class was a part of the educational curricula. Debates currently swirl in American public high schools concerning the revival of "Bible classes." Many conservatives immediately voice their approval for such a "return to the Bible in the classroom" (along with school prayer). Sometimes they do not pause to think that the (often unsaved) teacher may practice a "higher" critical approach to the Bible (since this approach is taught throughout American colleges and universities) and reduce the Bible to a literature or history class. On the other other hand, our culture has lost its biblical literacy, and "Bible classes" in the public school might regain some lost ground. Then again, even Christian public school teachers from differing denominations can not agree on the proper interpretation of various Bible texts. SO IN YOUR OPINION, IS A RETURN TO PUBLIC SCHOOL "BIBLE CLASSES" PREFERABLE IN TODAY'S CONTEXT, AND IF SO, UNDER WHAT GUIDELINES? IF SUCH A RETURN IS NOT PREFERABLE, WHAT CONVINCES YOU OF THIS POSITION? What says the hive mind? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 There is just too much room for shenanigans. I want a religious leader (or myself/my family) to teach my kids about their religion, not an employee of the county. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 No. I prefer to teach my dc the Bible. Even during the year I had them at a private Christian school, I had to spend way too much time undoing what they had learned. The teachers there were Christians, but didn't have any formal Bible training. Most had been educated at secular universities. Some of the stuff they taught was pretty flaky, imo. If a parent would like their child to receive some sort of Bible education, they would probably be better off finding a church that would offer a systematic Bible class, although I still wouldn't want my dc to be receiving their Bible education in most Sunday School classes (can you tell I'm pretty picky about this??). Lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 NO! Absolutely, NO! I do not want anyone teaching my children about God. (Except me!) Especially someone chosen by a school administrator. I do not currently home school for religious reasons. If the public schools were to teach religion that WOULD make me choose to home school for religious reasons. Avoidance of their religion. Jenne in CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 ...just a simple reading of one chapter of the King James Version Bible each morning at Registry or Homeroom would go a long way toward creating Biblical literacy. I would like that. No commentary, just a chapter. Kids are so disadvantaged when studying English language literature if they are not familiar with the King James Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 . . . basic religious and cultural literacy. The Bible as literature and Christianity as history seem important topics for a school curriculum to cover (along with Greco-Roman myths, Athenian democracy, Islamic empires, and the like). As an English major, I'm deeply aware of the biblical allusions that permeate Western literature. As someone who has studied political theory, I'm aware of how profoundly Christendom has influenced our politics, laws, and society. Attempting to use the Bible like a talisman to produce ethical behavior in schools is wrong-headed and troubling to me. It can't work, from a biblical perspective, because a relationship with God (either the God of Israel, from an OT perspective, or with Jesus, and through him, the God of Israel, from a NT perspective) is required even to begin to understand scripture and be a moral person. It can't work from a secular perspective, because the Bible is laden with all kinds of "religious nonsense" that has nothing to do with making a good moral citizenry. It might help in the sense I was talking about in the first paragraph--that by increasing cultural and historical literacy, you might get kids interested in being moral people. But I don't like the idea of the Bible being turned into a good luck charm in the public schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeacherZee Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 . . . basic religious and cultural literacy. The Bible as literature and Christianity as history seem important topics for a school curriculum to cover (along with Greco-Roman myths, Athenian democracy, Islamic empires, and the like). As an English major, I'm deeply aware of the biblical allusions that permeate Western literature. As someone who has studied political theory, I'm aware of how profoundly Christendom has influenced our politics, laws, and society. Attempting to use the Bible like a talisman to produce ethical behavior in schools is wrong-headed and troubling to me. It can't work, from a biblical perspective, because a relationship with God (either the God of Israel, from an OT perspective, or with Jesus, and through him, the God of Israel, from a NT perspective) is required even to begin to understand scripture and be a moral person. It can't work from a secular perspective, because the Bible is laden with all kinds of "religious nonsense" that has nothing to do with making a good moral citizenry. It might help in the sense I was talking about in the first paragraph--that by increasing cultural and historical literacy, you might get kids interested in being moral people. But I don't like the idea of the Bible being turned into a good luck charm in the public schools. :iagree: This is what I have been trying to formulate in my head. Sarah did it for me:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMCassandra Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 No, I think a return to a Bible class in our cultural climate would just inoculate people against the Bible. What I wish for (perhaps not possible) is religion clubs where the different religions are respected and you can go there for more information if you want it--sort of like the InterVarsity model at colleges/universities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 No, it opens the door for teaching other 'religious texts', and I would prefer to discuss this sort of thing at home with my kids. We would not want wrong doctrine taught either, which is what happened at the college I went to (it was a Christian school, but the professor did not believe the Bible to be totally true). At 19 I was able to discern truth (with the help of our pastor), but a bit younger it would have been very difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I agree with Sarah on all counts. What a surprise.;) . . . basic religious and cultural literacy. The Bible as literature and Christianity as history seem important topics for a school curriculum to cover (along with Greco-Roman myths, Athenian democracy, Islamic empires, and the like). As an English major, I'm deeply aware of the biblical allusions that permeate Western literature. As someone who has studied political theory, I'm aware of how profoundly Christendom has influenced our politics, laws, and society. Attempting to use the Bible like a talisman to produce ethical behavior in schools is wrong-headed and troubling to me. It can't work, from a biblical perspective, because a relationship with God (either the God of Israel, from an OT perspective, or with Jesus, and through him, the God of Israel, from a NT perspective) is required even to begin to understand scripture and be a moral person. It can't work from a secular perspective, because the Bible is laden with all kinds of "religious nonsense" that has nothing to do with making a good moral citizenry. It might help in the sense I was talking about in the first paragraph--that by increasing cultural and historical literacy, you might get kids interested in being moral people. But I don't like the idea of the Bible being turned into a good luck charm in the public schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I believe that religious instruction ought to be taught by parents, and the family's community. It doesn't belong in public school, unless it is only taught as literature, or as part of a cultural study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The teaching of religion should be left to people who *want* to teach religion. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 These responses have been very interesting. Especially since the popular view is that all Christians "want" the Bible or prayer or ______ back in schools. I read articles/watch tv shows where they talk about the need to put "God" back in schools but when I ask Christians one-on-one what they think of, say, a bible class, almost all of them recoil at the idea. Why do you think there is such a disconnect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The same reason there is a disconnect between Senators and their constituents. They are there, talking about (ostenibly) what we want, and we are still here living it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I would like a literature class that wasn't afraid to bring up the Biblical allusions (how can you teach Moby Dick without going into the biblical stories?), but absolutely don't want doctrine taught, or even a separate class. I think, in the context of other subjects (particularly literature and history), bringing in the Bible is essential to understanding what the author or the people being studied were talking about. Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanamom Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 K12, a secular curriculum, which we use through a public charter school, has a literature unit that includes a few Bible Stories. (In 5th grade, at least.) I wouldn't call it a "bible study". It was just a literature unit. The stories my 5th grader studied were: The Story of Ruth, The Story of David, Daniel in the Lion's Den, and 2 lessons on comparing and drawing some conclusions about these stories called "Choices That Count". K12 did not present these stories as true or untrue, but did lead the student to think about the actions and choices the characters made, and what the results of those actions were. As a secular parent, I was totally comfortable with this. I would not want my kids to be subjected to a "bible study" in the context of religious instruction as a school requirement, but am fully supportive of biblical literacy. (Not that 3 stories constitute biblical literacy, but it's at least an introduction!) Oh, yes, K12's History treats the topic of religion in much the same way that SWB's The Story of the World does. (In 1st-4th, I believe. I do know that SWB wrote at least the 1st and 2nd grade History lessons for K12)... 5th grade History uses Joy Hakim's A History of Us which certainly spends a lot of time illustrating how various religions influenced early America, and my middle schooler is back to World History: Prehistory through the Middle Ages, published by K12... I can't imagine studying history without also studying at least the basics of the major religions involved in past events. Anyway- just my experience regarding public schools, the topic of religion, and biblical literacy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 These responses have been very interesting. Especially since the popular view is that all Christians "want" the Bible or prayer or ______ back in schools. I read articles/watch tv shows where they talk about the need to put "God" back in schools but when I ask Christians one-on-one what they think of, say, a bible class, almost all of them recoil at the idea. Why do you think there is such a disconnect? I don't have anything against religion being brought back to schools, but the undertaking would be difficult. We aren't a strictly Christian nation. Even among Christians there is such disharmony about what is the truth that implementing such a class for each and every religion represented in the U.S. would not be cost effective. I think that is where the disconnect comes from. Say Family A is Baptist and the school religion curriculum was a Baptist, Family B, who is Pentecostal, may/would balk at the Baptist slant in the curriculum. Then add all the other protestant, Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, etc., any school administrator would have a mess on his/her hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 ...just a simple reading of one chapter of the King James Version Bible each morning at Registry or Homeroom would go a long way toward creating Biblical literacy. I would like that. No commentary, just a chapter. Kids are so disadvantaged when studying English language literature if they are not familiar with the King James Bible. *coughing and gagging on my cheeseburger* As a Catholic I disagree for an obvious reason.;) No. I prefer to teach my dc the Bible. Even during the year I had them at a private Christian school, I had to spend way too much time undoing what they had learned. The teachers there were Christians, but didn't have any formal Bible training. Most had been educated at secular universities. Some of the stuff they taught was pretty flaky, imo. If a parent would like their child to receive some sort of Bible education, they would probably be better off finding a church that would offer a systematic Bible class, although I still wouldn't want my dc to be receiving their Bible education in most Sunday School classes (can you tell I'm pretty picky about this??). Lori :iagree: same experience and same conclusion as me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillary in KS Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Heather, you've asked a lot of these sorts of questions lately. Are you trying to get us to do your homework for you?:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanestMomInMidwest Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Heather, you've asked a lot of these sorts of questions lately. Are you trying to get us to do your homework for you?:001_smile: I was thinking this, too....I was also thinking, what an odd question to ask a group of people who have opted out of the public school system. Certainly not a random sampling, here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 *coughing and gagging on my cheeseburger*As a Catholic I disagree for an obvious reason.;) QUOTE] This is what I said: "...just a simple reading of one chapter of the King James Version Bible each morning at Registry or Homeroom would go a long way toward creating Biblical literacy. I would like that. No commentary, just a chapter. Kids are so disadvantaged when studying English language literature if they are not familiar with the King James Bible" And this is what I meant to convey: My post relates to cultural literacy in studying English language literature, not to teaching of religion. I, personally, do not teach Bible as Bible using the KJV, any more than you do. But it is extremely useful to be familiar with it in any literature studies. So I tried to figure out a way to provide that familiarity without adding any 'flavor', advocacy, or antipathy. I feel offended by your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitilin Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 *coughing and gagging on my cheeseburger*As a Catholic I disagree for an obvious reason. Well, I wouldn't call it "so disadvantaged," but I do think that the language of the KJV is the most beautiful and poetic in English, bar none. The Douay-Rheims always feels contrived to me, and the Catholic RSV is like the KJV lite, IMHO. :) My favorite example is the the 23rd Psalm. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil, for Thou art with me" is just so incomparably beautiful, I feel it leaves other translations in the dust. I would never maintain that from the perspective of the best scholarly translation that the KJV is optimal, though. And I do think that Catholics ought to have some exposure to it, even though it is incomplete. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 Heather, you've asked a lot of these sorts of questions lately. Are you trying to get us to do your homework for you?:001_smile: Hardly. I don't need someone else to do my homework. I thought it was an interesting question and since I am usually the only female in my classes, it is nice to hear what other women have to say. Of course, we could always just go back to discussing which vacuum cleaner is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 I was thinking this, too....I was also thinking, what an odd question to ask a group of people who have opted out of the public school system. Certainly not a random sampling, here. I am not trying to achieve a "random sampling". As I stated in a previous post, most people ASSUME that homeschoolers are (a) Christian and (b) wish the Bible would be taught in schools. I thought by posting here I would get a variety of opinions...and I did. But don't worry, I didn't include any of them in my homework as it was already done before I posted. I don't cheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanestMomInMidwest Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I am not trying to achieve a "random sampling". As I stated in a previous post, most people ASSUME that homeschoolers are (a) Christian and (b) wish the Bible would be taught in schools. I thought by posting here I would get a variety of opinions...and I did. But don't worry, I didn't include any of them in my homework as it was already done before I posted. I don't cheat. :chillpill: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 :chillpill: I appreciate the chill pill but I am already perfectly calm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillary in KS Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hardly. I don't need someone else to do my homework. I thought it was an interesting question and since I am usually the only female in my classes, it is nice to hear what other women have to say. Of course, we could always just go back to discussing which vacuum cleaner is best. Whoa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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