DawnM Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I am very confused. There is a family member who I have posted about in the past who is always in trouble. This person has been arrested multiple times in the last year and typically there is a bail amount. Last time it was 25,000 and this time it is 50,000. However, they are often released with a "citation" but the bail amount is still listed. Bail is not paid. I am positive. And they never show up for court. Why is there even a bail amount if the person is released anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSera Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) details deleted Edited January 16 by KSera 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 @KSera This is like the 5th time they have been arrested with bail, so I can't imagine the police mess up every time. The person is homeless so I know they don't have bail money and they are homeless because their family has decided not to support this person who refuses to get mental health help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartstrings Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 51 minutes ago, DawnM said: I am very confused. There is a family member who I have posted about in the past who is always in trouble. This person has been arrested multiple times in the last year and typically there is a bail amount. Last time it was 25,000 and this time it is 50,000. However, they are often released with a "citation" but the bail amount is still listed. Bail is not paid. I am positive. And they never show up for court. Why is there even a bail amount if the person is released anyway? If he uses bail bondsmen then it’s the bond man’s responsibility after that. The bondsman is responsible for paying the court and responsible for dragging this guy back. The purpose of bail is to ensure you show up for your court date. You can wait for court in jail, at the county or cities expense or pay bail to wait for trial at home, able to work, etc. and be out of taxpayers pockets. Jail might be a good option for a homeless guy, it’s warm and they feed you. If you pay the bail and show up to court you get the money back. If a bondsman pays it for you they get their money back plus whatever fees you owe them, usually 10% of the original bond. If you don’t show up you or the bond guy loses the money and you get more court penalties, etc. And you owe the bonds guy and he has pretty broad authority to find you and drag you to court, he is executing a private contract at that point. With small amounts there might be more of a “promise to pay” option. If I had to guess with your family member I would say the jail is already overcrowded and they don’t want him and the city probably doesn’t want to bother actually prosecuting him so they just let him go for their convenience. He’s probably too low level for them to really care, they only have so many man hours to put forward and he’s not made the cut yet because his crimes aren’t the ones they are focused on for whatever reason. Maybe they are drug crimes but the county prioritizes violent crimes, or something. Or they haven’t made a push recently to clear warrants, sometimes those just sit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 10 minutes ago, Heartstrings said: If he uses bail bondsmen then it’s the bond man’s responsibility after that. The bondsman is responsible for paying the court and responsible for dragging this guy back. The purpose of bail is to ensure you show up for your court date. You can wait for court in jail, at the county or cities expense or pay bail to wait for trial at home, able to work, etc. and be out of taxpayers pockets. Jail might be a good option for a homeless guy, it’s warm and they feed you. If you pay the bail and show up to court you get the money back. If a bondsman pays it for you they get their money back plus whatever fees you owe them, usually 10% of the original bond. If you don’t show up you or the bond guy loses the money and you get more court penalties, etc. And you owe the bonds guy and he has pretty broad authority to find you and drag you to court, he is executing a private contract at that point. With small amounts there might be more of a “promise to pay” option. If I had to guess with your family member I would say the jail is already overcrowded and they don’t want him and the city probably doesn’t want to bother actually prosecuting him so they just let him go for their convenience. He’s probably too low level for them to really care, they only have so many man hours to put forward and he’s not made the cut yet because his crimes aren’t the ones they are focused on for whatever reason. Maybe they are drug crimes but the county prioritizes violent crimes, or something. Or they haven’t made a push recently to clear warrants, sometimes those just sit. This person IS homeless but then the question is, why even bother arresting if it is a catch and release with bail money that will never be paid? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I don't know the ins and outs of it, but I've heard of cases where there is a bail set, but despite that, the court decides to let the person go without paying the bail. Presumably low level crime, and it's probably a matter of not having enough room in jail for every petty criminal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 3 minutes ago, SKL said: I don't know the ins and outs of it, but I've heard of cases where there is a bail set, but despite that, the court decides to let the person go without paying the bail. Presumably low level crime, and it's probably a matter of not having enough room in jail for every petty criminal. Bail was 50,000 this last time. I thought small petty stuff had smaller bail amounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 minutes ago, DawnM said: Bail was 50,000 this last time. I thought small petty stuff had smaller bail amounts. Normally, the person charged only has to come up with a small fraction of the bail amount, so that is probably why they don't set the bail for a small dollar amount. It's convoluted. I don't understand it enough to say whether reforms would help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartstrings Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 11 minutes ago, DawnM said: This person IS homeless but then the question is, why even bother arresting if it is a catch and release with bail money that will never be paid? The police decide to arrest, the courts get to decide after that, so it’s 2 different groups making the decisions. That’s part of it. The police arrest based on factors at the scene, the court decided to let go based on knowing how busy the court is, what the prosecutor recommends, all sorts of things. If the prosecutor just asks for bail and to let him go, the dude is in the clear until his court date, which may never be set if they never choose to. Bail might be a holding move in case the prosecutor ever decides to prosecute, or so they can add the back charges on if he does something more serious at some point. It’s not like parole or probation, where catching another charge gets you put back in jail. You can be arrested for a new thing every day of the week and it’s no big deal until trial. It doesn’t sound like he’s been to court and convicted of anything so he’s free to get arrested as much as he wants. Many homeless will commit petty crimes to get off the street for a night or two. That might be why they keep letting him go, to discourage that kind of thing. Edited January 15 by Heartstrings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartstrings Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SKL said: Normally, the person charged only has to come up with a small fraction of the bail amount, so that is probably why they don't set the bail for a small dollar amount. It's convoluted. I don't understand it enough to say whether reforms would help. And they may ask for 0 up front if it’s a small enough crime or if the person is indignant. Most reforms are aimed at keeping more people out of jail not in jail, so I don’t know if reforms would make Dawn happy in this case. Edited January 15 by Heartstrings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartstrings Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DawnM said: Bail was 50,000 this last time. I thought small petty stuff had smaller bail amounts. You can probably look up what the arrest was for on the internet or police blotter. Edited January 15 by Heartstrings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 27 minutes ago, Heartstrings said: You can probably look up what the arrest was for on the internet or police blotter. I see the arrest info on the website but it doesn't say what the arrest was for. How can I look that up? I have tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartstrings Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DawnM said: I see the arrest info on the website but it doesn't say what the arrest was for. How can I look that up? I have tried. There are websites that will do records searches for a small fee A lot of time in smaller towns they are in the newspaper or someone will run a website with mug shots. My hometown has a cheap newspaper thing that you can pick up at every gas station, like the Penny Saver. Maybe it varies by state? Edited January 16 by Heartstrings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 21 minutes ago, Heartstrings said: There are websites that will do records searches for a small fee A lot of time in smaller towns they are in the newspaper or someone will run a website with mug shots. My hometown has a cheap newspaper thing that you can pick up at every gas station, like the Penny Saver. Maybe it varies by state? Well, this person is in Los Angeles County, so it won't be as easy, although what I have found is that if you pay for records, they don't keep them up to date, so I would prob have to wait to see whatever it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, DawnM said: This person IS homeless but then the question is, why even bother arresting if it is a catch and release with bail money that will never be paid? It does help create a record. I'm going to guess that females are more likely to be let go like this because they are considered lower risk of violent harm to others. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 This kind of thing is usually a DA problem, not a police problem. Does this person live in a large city that's had backlash for racism in policing in the last 5 years? The DA is probably deciding not to prosecute, so they must be released. Especially if the crimes are minor drug offenses multiplied by the amount found on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 It also can depend on the state. There are places where “excessive” bail is not allowed and for a person who has no money, any amount of bail is excessive since they have no way to pay. The person is released without paying the bail and must appear in court at a later date. I don’t know about California specifically, but with what I do know about how California handles the homeless population in general, I would not be surprised if something like this exists in California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
----- Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) nm Edited May 30 by kathyl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 10 hours ago, Katy said: This kind of thing is usually a DA problem, not a police problem. Does this person live in a large city that's had backlash for racism in policing in the last 5 years? The DA is probably deciding not to prosecute, so they must be released. Especially if the crimes are minor drug offenses multiplied by the amount found on them. This is what I found: https://da.lacounty.gov/about/meet-the-da Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Others have already explained "how" the bail might have been met or why it was dropped. Why not keep him in jail? For a petty crime, with little physical risk to society, it can simply be a matter of jail space. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 If it’s really a mental health issue vs criminal issue, jail isn’t the place for him/her anyway. My dh tries to keep criminals in jail and people with mental health issues in medical facilities. If they don’t have a path to a medical facility, the DA (not a term used in my state, so not sure how much authority this person has) may feel like release is the best option out of all the bad options. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasProud Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Yep. Homelessness is a really hard problem, especially when mental illness is involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I believe laws have changed recently to prevent over crowding so non violent offenses could get released possible without bond 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 5 hours ago, DawnM said: This is what I found: https://da.lacounty.gov/about/meet-the-da If we’re discussing a homeless person with low level drug offenses and petty crimes to support said addiction, it seems this DA has no interest in prosecuting. In those cases I remember my dad would sometimes ask if someone wanted to go into the jail for a night or two. We lived in a smaller town and there was often room at the jail. They’d be arrested for something that the charges would be dropped in 72 hours. They could get a hot shower, clean socks & underwear, and hot meals 3 times a day. Sometimes for a whole 72 hours. It can also be a police decision to arrest someone for their own safety, especially if they’re fighting with another homeless addict. There was one guy who my dad would bring to our house, get him some clothes from my dad’s closet, and then take him to the jail to shower about every three months. He apparently never tried to bathe otherwise. When he was released his old clothes would go in a dumpster and Daddy’s clothes is what he would dress in. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 32 minutes ago, Katy said: If we’re discussing a homeless person with low level drug offenses and petty crimes to support said addiction, it seems this DA has no interest in prosecuting. In those cases I remember my dad would sometimes ask if someone wanted to go into the jail for a night or two. We lived in a smaller town and there was often room at the jail. They’d be arrested for something that the charges would be dropped in 72 hours. They could get a hot shower, clean socks & underwear, and hot meals 3 times a day. Sometimes for a whole 72 hours. It can also be a police decision to arrest someone for their own safety, especially if they’re fighting with another homeless addict. There was one guy who my dad would bring to our house, get him some clothes from my dad’s closet, and then take him to the jail to shower about every three months. He apparently never tried to bathe otherwise. When he was released his old clothes would go in a dumpster and Daddy’s clothes is what he would dress in. Reminds me of OTIS! they even let him have the key! He would check himself in. Wonderful of your father. Unfortunately, the sheer numbers in LA County would be difficult to handle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 35 minutes ago, lynn said: I believe laws have changed recently to prevent over crowding so non violent offenses could get released possible without bond So why assign a bail amount to the "crime?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, DawnM said: So why assign a bail amount to the "crime?" Because the partisan politicians who care more about looking tough on crime than doing evidence based policing won’t change the laws or regulations. 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 Just an update. I looked at the LA inmate site and yup, this person is back in jail with OVER $200k in bail! At least this time this person is staying in jail for a bit. Court is Feb. 1st so we will see if anything happens then and if any sentencing happens or if it is another catch and release. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 @DawnMI hate that you have to follow her nonsense, but I get why. I am very thankful you are so far away from her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Oooohhhh, can you serve a restraining order while she’s in jail? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 5 hours ago, Katy said: Oooohhhh, can you serve a restraining order while she’s in jail? Maybe, but I haven't really had any concerns about her actually being able to find her way here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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