PSA Bottled water contains thousands of nanoplastics so small they can invade the body’s cells, study says

[prairiewindmomma]

Teflon is PTFE, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#:~:text=Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) is a synthetic,Polytetrafluoroethylene

[popmom]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

The reusable ones are still made of plastic and need to be reused a lot before they’re better than the thin single  use bags.  Paper would be better as far as plastics go, but that means trees are cut down.  Paper from bamboo would be better but Walmart probably isn’t going to along with that.  

Check out Native Habitat Project (Kyle Lybarger), and you won't worry as much about some trees being cut. 😉 

My grocery delivery is Kroger. They don't have stores here--just a distribution center for delivery. I wish they would do paper or cardboard boxes. 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Teflon is PTFE, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#:~:text=Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) is a synthetic,Polytetrafluoroethylene

Interesting parts to me:

 

PTFE is one of the best-known and widely applied PFAS commonly described as persistent organic pollutants or "forever chemicals". Only since the start of the 21st century has the environmental impact and toxicity to human and mammalian life been studied in depth. For decades, DuPont used perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA, or C8) during production of PTFE, later discontinuing its use due to ecotoxicological and health issues that led to legal actions. Dupont's spin-off Chemours today manufactures PTFE using an alternative chemical it calls GenX, another PFAS.

 

As a result of a class-action lawsuit and community settlement with DuPont, three epidemiologists conducted studies on the population surrounding a chemical plant that was exposed to PFOA at levels greater than in the general population. The studies concluded that there was an association between PFOA exposure and six health outcomes: kidney cancer, testicular cancer, ulcerative colitis, thyroid disease, hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol), and pregnancy-induced hypertension.^[74]

Overall, PTFE cookware is considered a minor exposure pathway to PFOA

 

 

Not me over here with my scratched up non stick pans. 🫣

Edited January 14 by Heartstrings

[popmom]

Off to google the cost of RO installation...

[Heartstrings]

Just now, popmom said:

Off to google the cost of RO installation...

I know right?   I’m on Amazon picking out new stainless steal pans.  🤣. 

[popmom]

Just now, Heartstrings said:

I know right?   I’m on Amazon picking out new stainless steal pans.  🤣. 

RO isn't as expensive as I thought! I think I can do this! lol

[prairiewindmomma]

7 minutes ago, popmom said:

Off to google the cost of RO installation...

We paid $200 to a plumber but could have done it ourselves. We bought an APEC RO off amazon.

[popmom]

2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

We paid $200 to a plumber but could have done it ourselves. We bought an APEC RO off amazon.

Thank you for the recommendation! Did you have to install a separate faucet? I'd have to put a hole in my quartz. I'm trying to find one that will work with my current faucet. Does such a thing exist?

[prairiewindmomma]

A bit on NSF filtering standards, to aid your research: https://www.esgthereport.com/nsf-53-drinking-water-filters-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-nsf-ansi-standard/

[prairiewindmomma]

3 minutes ago, popmom said:

Thank you for the recommendation! Did you have to install a separate faucet? I'd have to put a hole in my quartz. I'm trying to find one that will work with my current faucet. Does such a thing exist?

We have a separate tap faucet that pulls from the storage tank. ETA: we removed the built in soap dispenser, so we had a hole free.

You could do whole house RO where water enters your house but it’s more expensive.

Edited January 14 by prairiewindmomma

[popmom]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

We have a separate tap faucet that pulls from the storage tank.

You could do whole house RO where water enters your house but it’s more expensive.

That makes sense. That's why I was thinking it would be cost prohibitive. We had a whole house system at our house in San Antonio. I didn't even know "under sink" filters existed. 

[Heartstrings]

Maybe a Berkey would be an easier option?

[prairiewindmomma]

4 minutes ago, popmom said:

That makes sense. That's why I was thinking it would be cost prohibitive. We had a whole house system at our house in San Antonio. I didn't even know "under sink" filters existed. 

It was our time in SA that pushed us to RO our drinking water. SAWS water smelled bad and frequently had boil orders after flash floods. Add to that the bpa and drugs in the water studies that were coming out and I didnt feel great about buying flats of water to have on hand, so we went this route instead. After seeing Houston post Harvey and the spillage that happened with the lack of disclosure, I felt vindicated that we had made the right call.

[prairiewindmomma]

4 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Maybe a Berkey would be an easier option?

Berkeys do not meet NSF standards nor do they perform reverse osmosis.

[prairiewindmomma]

It looks like they have countertop RO now as well—no need for any holes at all.

[popmom]

5 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Berkeys do not meet NSF standards nor do they perform reverse osmosis.

Yes. I have been reading a lot about that in light of their lawsuits against the EPA.

[frogger]

Back in the 90's my sister had birds and learned you couldn't cook with teflon around them or it could kill them. So my mom, sister, and I have always used cast iron. Our thoughts were if they killed birds it couldn't be great for us. Doesn't always work that way but....

[popmom]

So I just checked the filter in my newer LG refrigerator. It is NSF42 and NSF43 certified. I am glad, but honestly after looking at the RO filters, those are more affordable in the long run. My LG replacement is over $50 each. Correction: with tax and shipping it's $70! Cheaper on Amazon, but I don't trust Amazon. Too many counterfeits. 

I am going to go ahead and order another because I am sure this one is more than 6 months old. 

Edited January 14 by popmom

[Heartstrings]

37 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Berkeys do not meet NSF standards nor do they perform reverse osmosis.

Why are people paying so much for them then? How dumb.  What’s even the point of them? 

Edited January 14 by Heartstrings

[AngelaGT]

Another consideration is the amount of microplastic found in salt.  Both dh and I have chronic low sodium levels and use a lot of salt.  In doing the research on the most nutrient dense and safest salt to consume I have been horrified at the levels of microplastics found in salt.  At the moment, we are using Redmonds Real Salt, but am always interested in a suggestion for something better.

[Kassia]

34 minutes ago, AngelaGT said:

Another consideration is the amount of microplastic found in salt.  Both dh and I have chronic low sodium levels and use a lot of salt.  In doing the research on the most nutrient dense and safest salt to consume I have been horrified at the levels of microplastics found in salt.  At the moment, we are using Redmonds Real Salt, but am always interested in a suggestion for something better.

I didn't know this.  I also struggle with low sodium and use a lot of salt as well.  

[popmom]

I use Redmond’s salt, too. It has microplastics? 

[kbutton]

 

15 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

There are strong ties to BPA and other things causing endocrine disruption.

This is one of the things that worries me. My endocrine system is already disrupted enough. My hormone profiles are whack, and it has a definite influence on my body composition.

 

[Halftime Hope]

BTW, I saw someone doing lead wipes on the inside of Stanleys recently. Tested positive for lead.

[prairiewindmomma]

3 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

BTW, I saw someone doing lead wipes on the inside of Stanleys recently. Tested positive for lead.

The lead is in the sealing dot, not a place where people normally come into contact with it. Details here of the third party testing: https://tamararubin.com/2023/03/full-xrf-test-results-for-a-2023-purchased-stanley-40-oz-flowstate-quencher-h2-0-tumbler/

Hydroflask uses glass in its sealing dot instead.

Edited January 14 by prairiewindmomma

[AngelaGT]

3 hours ago, Kassia said:

I didn't know this.  I also struggle with low sodium and use a lot of salt as well.  

 

[AngelaGT]

2 hours ago, popmom said:

I use Redmond’s salt, too. It has microplastics? 

 

[Halftime Hope]

50 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The lead is in the sealing dot, not a place where people normally come into contact with it. Details here of the third party testing: https://tamararubin.com/2023/03/full-xrf-test-results-for-a-2023-purchased-stanley-40-oz-flowstate-quencher-h2-0-tumbler/

Hydroflask uses glass in its sealing dot instead.

I read the article, @prairiewindmomma. It's possible the person doing the test didn't have a reputable lead test, but she was not swabbing the base, rather the interior of the cup. It was turning the swabs a color.  ???

More importantly, the article mentioned not drinking hot beverages stored for hours in 304 or 18/8 stainless steel. That would apply to me, a daily tea drinker. Will have to rethink; probably the easiest would be to begin using my old coffee carafe as a warmer. Sigh. It's either that or spend far too much time at the microwave at work, warming up tea.

Edited January 14 by Halftime Hope

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

BTW, I saw someone doing lead wipes on the inside of Stanleys recently. Tested positive for lead.

The ones I’ve seen have found a dot of lead on the outside bottom after you break the covering. I haven’t seen any that do the inside of the cup and find lead.  I have seen where they try to test the inside of the cup but it’s always negative.  I’ve assumed it was a bit of the social media telephone game mixing up the two things.  
 

 I’m kind of ok with risking lead that I’m only exposed to if I first break the item apart and then lick the bottom.  I can just not do that.  
 

I won’t be buying a Stanley anyway so I have no skin in the game here.  I’ve just never seen anyone show the cup interior containing lead.  

Edited January 14 by Heartstrings

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, Halftime Hope said:

I read the article, @prairiewindmomma. It's possible the person doing the test didn't have a reputable lead test, but she was not swabbing the base, rather the interior of the cup. It was turning the swabs a color.  ???

I’m confused.  I don’t see anywhere in the article where it says the inside tested positive for lead.  It specifically says it doesn’t.  The interior did test positive for various other metals, perhaps that’s why the swab turned a color, but it it’s specifically stated several times that no lead is in accessible parts of the cup.  

From the article 

 

 

Section #1.A.) TLDR
Ten Important Points

1. The insulated Stainless Steel products manufactured by Stanley test positive for unsafe / hazardous levels of Lead in the exterior bottom “sealing dot” of the products.
2. See videos above that show the sealing dot.
3. The high-Lead sealing dot is exposed when the product is damaged – specifically when the bottom “button” or cap comes off, making the bioavailable Lead accessible to the user. Lead Safe Mama readers have reported that these bottom caps / buttons come off even when the product is used normally (as intended)  – not abused in any way.
4. The Leaded component does not come into contact with the contents of the vessel but the user may be exposed to Lead with normal hand-to-mouth activity if the bottom cap / button has fallen off

….

Initial findings: There was no Lead found in any accessible

 

[Heartstrings]

I’ll admit I had never thought about coffee being an issue, so that’s good info. I have a few stainless steel cups that I occasionally use for that purpose so I’ll need a new strategy.  Some of them are marketed for coffee or appear intended for coffee so that’s annoying.  It would great if we didn’t have to research everything to death like this.  The manufacturers should have to show things are safe before they get to us, not consumers have to figure it out after.  
 

 

 

[Halftime Hope]

2 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

The ones I’ve seen have found a dot of lead on the outside bottom after you break the covering. I haven’t seen any that do the inside of the cup and find lead.  I have seen where they try to test the inside of the cup but it’s always negative.  I’ve assumed it was a bit of the social media telephone game mixing up the two things.  
 

 I’m kind of ok with risking lead that I’m only exposed to if I first break the item apart and then lick the bottom.  I can just not do that.  
 

I won’t be buying a Stanley anyway so I have no skin in the game here.  I’ve just never seen anyone show the cup interior containing lead.  

Someone I don't know posted a video of her testing a Stanley, on the inside, and her swabs turned positive for lead.

Clearly the article posted by Prairiewindmomma had more detailed, credible information.

I'm going to step away from this now.

 

[popmom]

@AngelaGT the video was informative, but it didn't talk about Redmond's specifically. Redmond salt comes from Utah. I'm just going to trust based on the info on their website that it hasn't been exposed to the same contamination as regular sea salt. I think I misunderstood your original comment as saying that you thought Redmond might be contaminated. My mistake. Thanks for sharing the videos!

[Matryoshka]

25 minutes ago, popmom said:

@AngelaGT the video was informative, but it didn't talk about Redmond's specifically. Redmond salt comes from Utah. I'm just going to trust based on the info on their website that it hasn't been exposed to the same contamination as regular sea salt. I think I misunderstood your original comment as saying that you thought Redmond might be contaminated. My mistake. Thanks for sharing the videos!

Pretty much all food that's in the current environment has microplastics now, so I'm not sure why the hyperfocus on salt.

However, I think the gist with the salt is that salt from the ocean is 'in the soup' of the current plastic-laden environment, so is full of microplastics.

Himalayan salt is from salt deposits laid down millions of years ago, pre-microplastics.  I would think the same would be true of salt that was mined from a dry salt lake (I'm guessing that's where Utah salt would be coming from??)   However, similar to water in plastic bottles, I wonder if the salt could somehow get contaminated from being packaged in plastic?  

But back to my first point, freaking everything is packaged in plastic, also why the focus on bottled water specifically when milk, soda, juice - virtually everything is in plastic and I'm sure is equally contaminated.  They've found microplastics in the snow in Antarctica.  It's pretty much entirely permeated our whole food chain, much of it likely at the cellular level.  I'm not sure how one can avoid the stuff at this point...  Rock salt, as it is not alive, is like the one thing that might have some small hope of managing to not have microplastics in it, but that's such a small part of what we ingest...

[prairiewindmomma]

Literally it is in our rain. https://www.wired.com/story/plastic-rain-is-the-new-acid-rain/

[busymama7]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

Pretty much all food that's in the current environment has microplastics now, so I'm not sure why the hyperfocus on salt.

However, I think the gist with the salt is that salt from the ocean is 'in the soup' of the current plastic-laden environment, so is full of microplastics.

Himalayan salt is from salt deposits laid down millions of years ago, pre-microplastics.  I would think the same would be true of salt that was mined from a dry salt lake (I'm guessing that's where Utah salt would be coming from??)   However, similar to water in plastic bottles, I wonder if the salt could somehow get contaminated from being packaged in plastic?  

But back to my first point, freaking everything is packaged in plastic, also why the focus on bottled water specifically when milk, soda, juice - virtually everything is in plastic and I'm sure is equally contaminated.  They've found microplastics in the snow in Antarctica.  It's pretty much entirely permeated our whole food chain, much of it likely at the cellular level.  I'm not sure how one can avoid the stuff at this point...  Rock salt, as it is not alive, is like the one thing that might have some small hope of managing to not have microplastics in it, but that's such a small part of what we ingest...

Well for one thing, plastic water bottles are EXTREMELY easy to avoid.  They are just plain lazy.  I haven't brought or drunk from one more than a handful of times in 10 years.  Once was really bad lack of planning but I learned from it. And I live in the desert and have raised 9 kids who have a very solid habit of filling a water bottle every time we leave the house.  Correct that it plastic isn't avoidable.  But reducing exposure does make a difference on an individual level.

 

Eta: And the heat it shipping makes it worse.  Milk at least is kept cold. 

Edited January 15 by busymama7

[Heartstrings]

I think the focus on water bottles is because people tend to reuse them. They are also pretty thin and I know lots of people who crinkle them then reuse them.   It’s like a worse case scenario to take already very thin plastic, heat it during storage and transport, crinkle it up, leave it in a hot car, then reuse it over and over.  I would think you might as well eat the bottle at that point.  
 

I know water bottles are the only plastic that I purposely store in my hot car during Southern summers.   What kind of nano plastic was in my water after 30 days of being in my car when the temperature was 100 or near 100 every day?  I park in the sun too.   
 

I think the actual way we use water bottles makes them more of a problem than other things.  

Edited January 15 by Heartstrings

[SKL]

59 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I know water bottles are the only plastic that I purposely store in my hot car during Southern summers.   What kind of nano plastic was in my water after 30 days of being in my car when the temperature was 100 or near 100 every day?  I park in the sun too.   
 

I think the actual way we use water bottles makes them more of a problem than other things.  

Years ago, there was tons of info telling us that leaving water bottles in hot cars and then drinking the water could cause cancer in the long run.  I would definitely change my habits on that if I were you.

[Heartstrings]

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

Years ago, there was tons of info telling us that leaving water bottles in hot cars and then drinking the water could cause cancer in the long run.  I would definitely change my habits on that if I were you.

I just have to figure out a good way to do that.  I’ll probably still keep cheap bottles for cleaning stuff, like cuts or dirty hands but need a new plan for drinking water. Last summer I started keeping filled reusable bottles filled in the fridge instead of storing them in the cupboard and that helped a lot with grab and go situations.  
 

I do wonder why so many are questioning if nano plastics are harmful if there was info floating around already about water from hot water bottles causing cancer?  Those 2 pieces of information would seem to fit together to me.   

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:

I do wonder why so many are questioning if nano plastics are harmful if there was info floating around already about water from hot water bottles causing cancer?  Those 2 pieces of information would seem to fit together to me.   

I assume it's complex and not necessarily the same thing.  I don't recall how much of the science was explained back then about the hot bottles.  But if it was the same thing, then why this sudden article and the apparent surprise of the scientists?

[SKL]

4 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I just have to figure out a good way to do that.  I’ll probably still keep cheap bottles for cleaning stuff, like cuts or dirty hands but need a new plan for drinking water. Last summer I started keeping filled reusable bottles filled in the fridge instead of storing them in the cupboard and that helped a lot with grab and go situations. 

Curious, why don't you just grab water from the tap?

Edited January 15 by SKL

[Heartstrings]

17 minutes ago, SKL said:

Curious, why don't you just grab water from the tap?

I take a lot of stuff on outings but draw the line at the kitchen sink.  🤣.  
 

Kidding aside, it’s for times that we are away from the house.  Our parks don’t always have bathrooms and drinking fountains in convient locations or at all or they are closed and the water is turned off to discourage homeless populations. I can’t count on access to tap water out and about.  Taking our own drinks ensures access and keeps me from hitting up Sonic for thirsty people. Having filled bottles in the fridge makes it easy to grab on the way out the door instead of trying to find them and fill them all in a hurry.  

Im also frequently the only planner in my different friend groups so my kids have water bottles and snacks but the other kids don’t.  It makes meet ups more pleasant if I bring water and snacks to dole out for everyone, although it does get annoying sometimes.  Having bottles in my car made that easier.  

Edited January 15 by Heartstrings

[Matryoshka]

7 hours ago, busymama7 said:

Well for one thing, plastic water bottles are EXTREMELY easy to avoid.  They are just plain lazy.  I haven't brought or drunk from one more than a handful of times in 10 years.  Once was really bad lack of planning but I learned from it. And I live in the desert and have raised 9 kids who have a very solid habit of filling a water bottle every time we leave the house.  Correct that it plastic isn't avoidable.  But reducing exposure does make a difference on an individual level.

 

Eta: And the heat it shipping makes it worse.  Milk at least is kept cold. 

Well, yeah, I don't use bottled water.  I've never understood the obsession.  Tap water in glass at home or bring reusable water bottle when out. (Or just don't drink for a while... you won't shrivel up and die if youre not constantly drinking, really) The waste from all those water bottles is also next level, besides contaminating the water that's in them.

Still think we should maybe rethink packaging everything in plastic generally, though.

Edited January 15 by Matryoshka

[SKL]

This brings up an "in my day" thought I often have.  When I was growing up, and well into adulthood, bringing water everywhere wasn't a thing for most of us.  We would be out of the house all day and never brought water.  Never carried water around at school, never brought it to sports.  If we had water in the car, it wasn't for drinking.

I think there's been an industry telling us we need something we don't actually need, at least not in the quantities we buy them.

[Matryoshka]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

This brings up an "in my day" thought I often have.  When I was growing up, and well into adulthood, bringing water everywhere wasn't a thing for most of us.  We would be out of the house all day and never brought water.  Never carried water around at school, never brought it to sports.  If we had water in the car, it wasn't for drinking.

I think there's been an industry telling us we need something we don't actually need, at least not in the quantities we buy them.

This, too. 

[Heartstrings]

Just now, SKL said:

This brings up an "in my day" thought I often have.  When I was growing up, and well into adulthood, bringing water everywhere wasn't a thing for most of us.  We would be out of the house all day and never brought water.  Never carried water around at school, never brought it to sports.  If we had water in the car, it wasn't for drinking.

I think there's been an industry telling us we need something we don't actually need, at least not in the quantities we buy them.

I remember getting drinks from neighbors hoses outside as a kid, but I certainly don’t want my kids doing that!  

[SKL]

Just now, Heartstrings said:

I remember getting drinks from neighbors hoses outside as a kid, but I certainly don’t want my kids doing that!  

I mean it might not be any worse than what they're using now....  Wouldn't it be funny if scientists compared the two options?

[Heartstrings]

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

I mean it might not be any worse than what they're using now....  Wouldn't it be funny if scientists compared the two options?

Oh I wasn’t thinking about plastic from hoses, although that’s an interesting point. Hoses are in the hot sun all day, but are much heavier duty plastic material.  That would be a interesting comparison.  

 I was thinking about safety. Remember last year when a kid was shot for knocking on the wrong door?  And a teen was shot for turning around in a driveway?  I can’t in good conscious tell my kids to go onto someone’s property and touch their hose, or even knock on the door to ask permission.  Not when everyone is trigger happy and excited to finally get a chance to Stand Their Ground.  

Edited January 15 by Heartstrings

[Heartstrings]

36 minutes ago, SKL said:

I assume it's complex and not necessarily the same thing.  I don't recall how much of the science was explained back then about the hot bottles.  But if it was the same thing, then why this sudden article and the apparent surprise of the scientists?

The article mentions using new laser technology and that the nano plastics were tinier than previously detected so it’s possible scientists noticed the correlation way back when but didn’t have the tech to prove why.  Now that they have the tech they can investigate better.   

Edited January 15 by Heartstrings

[SKL]

Just now, Heartstrings said:

Oh I wasn’t thinking about plastic from hoses, although that’s an interesting point. Hoses are in the hot sun all day, but are much heavier duty plastic material.  

 I was thinking about safety. Remember last year when a kid was shot for knocking on the wrong door?  And a teen was shot for turning around in a driveway?  I can’t in good consciousness tell my kids to go onto someone’s property and touch their hose, or even knock on the door to ask permission.  Not when everyone is trigger happy and excited to finally get a chance to Stand Their Ground.  

I thought you meant homes of people they know / friends' homes.  That's how it was when I was little.

We could also ask for a drink from any known person who was home in a neighborhood ... and by known, I'm including the parents of any child we'd just met today.  😛

But there were generally enough public fountains, or we were close enough to walk home without dying if there were no public or friend options.

Last week, I went on a hike alone by Iguazu Falls, Argentina on a pretty hot day.  I didn't bring water because a sign said there was a fast food outlet near the trailhead, but it turned out that the outlet was under construction and not operating.  So I went on the hike without hydration.  Was I hot, yes.  Did I die, no.  Was I good and thirsty afterward, sure.  😛  Back home, I never bring water on hikes.  I will be within a few miles of a water fountain or my car (which can drive me home for a drink).  Good enough so far.