What's new in Gifted homeschooling in the last four years or so?

[Dmmetler]

I put in an application to do a seminar on music ed for the local homeschool association's Expo, and they came back and asked me if I'd talk about homeschooling gifted kids instead. And I'll happily do it-but realistically, L moved to doing mostly college classes at 12, and I haven't been homeschooling a gifted kid at all for the last 3 years. So, what new things are worth recommending parents check out? In particular, I'd love to know what's new for younger kids, since my information on homeschooling an elementary accelerated/gifted kid is about 10 years old now!

 

 

 

 

[Malam]

In addition to BA/AoPS (which should get mentioned), mathacademy.com has gotten some attention recently as a more acceleration-oriented (rather than enrichment-oriented) math program. And then there's the competition math rabbit hole and stuff like EMF math.

The evergreen fundamentals are also important too - managing academic/emotional/cognitive asynchrony, dealing with perfectionism, etc.

[Dmmetler]

I figured I'd mention BA/AOps, online providers, a couple of the big groups like Davidson and PGR, how to navigate early college in my particular area (where DE is restricted, but there is a work around), and the major gifted stuff.

 

But, for example, Singapore worked really well for us in elementary school-but I think we're at least two editions back now, and things like the IP/CWP books that were great are out of print. So I don't know if it's even worth mentioning anymore. Similarly, I used MCT's grammar and loved it-but there's been a lot more that has come out since then, and I think they've added levels. 

 

 

 

[Penderwink]

Not specifically for accelerated kids, but adding a second language for a young child seems more accessible with online lessons, Netflix in multiple languages, reading apps in specific languages etc.

It seems to me that the range of very detailed, non-fiction picture books suitable also for older children has also increased especially for science/humanities such that you can cover a lot of ground and follow up interests while avoiding a formal curriculum at a young age.

 

[Malam]

On 12/1/2023 at 9:22 PM, Dmmetler said:

I figured I'd mention BA/AOps, online providers, a couple of the big groups like Davidson and PGR, how to navigate early college in my particular area (where DE is restricted, but there is a work around), and the major gifted stuff.

 

But, for example, Singapore worked really well for us in elementary school-but I think we're at least two editions back now, and things like the IP/CWP books that were great are out of print. So I don't know if it's even worth mentioning anymore. Similarly, I used MCT's grammar and loved it-but there's been a lot more that has come out since then, and I think they've added levels.

They don't look out of print to me:

https://www.singaporemath.com/pages/challenging-word-problems-samples

https://www.singaporemath.com/collections/intensive-practice

And when mentioning MCT you could mention what yous specifically used so parents would know your endorsement doesn't extend to whatever you didn't use.

Maybe also mention epsilon camp?

It might be worth polling to see which child age range(s) would be the most represented in attendance, so you can tailor the recommendations. If there are a lot of parents if middle/high school (gifted) kids, you might want to include AoPS, AMC, AP exams vs dual enrollment, the pros and cons of early graduation, how to accelerate high school while getting enough credits, etc.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Malam

[8filltheheart]

Are you supposed to talk products or ideas? I personally believe that homeschoolers today are surrounded by marketing overload. You could expand your focus and only briefly mention a few places for finding materials and then spend the majority of your talk on the benefits of homeschooling gifted kids specifically bc of flexibility in content, inputs/outputs, and developing interests.

I 2nd the foreign language suggestion. And as I'm learning with my youngest, you should definitely incorporate your own love into your talk, music.  (Homeschooling is a huge bonus for those 2 paths.) 

You could talk about finding passions and how to find resources in the broader context to help them explore ideas/interests/talents.

[Dmmetler]

I'm thinking that the format will be 

"What is this gifted thing, anyway (and can I send it back?)" (Gifted traits, why homeschooling is helpful, my background, and what specific ages/stages are the folks In the room at). 

"Once, twice, three times (or more)exceptional" (overlap with common 2e areas, why it might be worth it to get an evaluation even if homeschooling, and that things can change as a kid grows, so a 2e kid who thrives in elementary socially might well require a lot of support in middle or high school, or not make the transition to adulthood well). 

"Thinking outside the (grade level) box" (partial acceleration, independent projects, special interests, how to turn a "we've never done that" into a "we'll try", plus things like "if Saxon is working and your kid is happy and you can manage it, don't change it even if a message board or a friend or someone at a workshop says that gifted kids should be using AoPS!", Everything doesn't have to be equally challenging and challenge can come from sports, music, art, dance, competitions, or other outside of school areas vs academics, that perfect can be the enemy, foreign language, competitions, and local/regional enrichment opportunities etc)

 

I would like to have a list of parent recommended resources for those who want it as well, which is where I'm concerned that my information may be stale. I KNOW I tried looking up a bunch of things that were awesome for science enrichment when L was an elementary aged kid who needed higher level content and many simply no longer exist. 

[Clarita]

Sounds like a fantastic seminar!

[Malam]

11 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I KNOW I tried looking up a bunch of things that were awesome for science enrichment when L was an elementary aged kid who needed higher level content and many simply no longer exist.

Trade books (which can often be found in middle/high school Charlotte mason curricula), spintronics, BFSU (and the lesson plans here), phet simulations, TOPS learning systems, and now there's BA too (which, unlike math, seems better suited as a supplement than as a full curriculum). There are also tons of high quality YouTube channels.

[El...]

I have no expertise, just two kids that are slightly advanced. However, these are things that have played well here and I think get overlooked: Miquon math as a prequel to Beast; popular science trade books as read alouds and independent reads (Bill Bryson's book on the human body was great for dd at 14), and using a big, fat, coffee table book as a spine for a rich history study via the library. Ds loves reading the DK History of the World aligned with the DK Battles book and a ton of stuff from the library.  I know it's classic WTM, but it's working. 

[Dmmetler]

Is there any nice list of good trade books out there that I can give a link to that someone has used and recommends? 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

@Dmmetler

This expo is very fortunate to have you.  Over the years that I've been here, your balance of wisdom, experience, respect and kindness has been so evident.

My input for what it's worth:

- second and third languages

- instruments, music theory, composition

- hand and mind - woodwork, sewing, crochet

- physical challenge

- flexibility - what the child needs today may be very different to what they need next week

- try not to compare - just because the Jones' gifted child uses x, y and z doesn't mean it will be the best fit for your child

[Dmmetler]

I feel like I've survived by luck, the skin of my teeth, and with a little help from my friends 🙂. But maybe I can at least be the friend that tells them to just breathe, teach the kid they have now, and go from there. That's probanly the biggest lesson I've gotten from this forum over the last 15ish years!

[Malam]

On 12/7/2023 at 9:59 PM, Dmmetler said:

Is there any nice list of good trade books out there

https://sabbathmoodhomeschool.com/living-science-books/

 

[8filltheheart]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:59 AM, Dmmetler said:

Is there any nice list of good trade books out there that I can give a link to that someone has used and recommends? 

NSTA's winner booklist (goes all way back to 1996 Outstanding Science Trade Books for Students K–12 | NSTA

2 that are older and not updated but have great lists:

An old poster who is now deceased created a great booklist on Library Thing: nmoira's books | LibraryThing

Charlotte Mason Tripod charlottemason.tripod.com

I would also recommend Great Courses.  The guides that come with the courses often have excellent book suggestions.

[Clemsondana]

Your talk looks great.  You might also mention something along the lines of 'just because a kid is good at something, even exceptionally good, does not mean that they love it and want to do it for fun'.  My older was crazy good at math, but didn't want to do puzzle problems.  Kid used a combo of AoPS, my old college textbook, Life of Fred Calculus, Calculus Made Easy, and AP prep videos to self-teach AP calc to a 5 on the AP BC exam (kid just finished online DE Calc 3, which also required a ton of self-teaching, and ended with a high A) and has a more thorough grasp of the math than my spouse, who has a math minor...but still sees math as a tool and would never have wanted to join a math circle or work challenging word problems for fun or move through an AoPS book quickly by doing 2 chapters a day and every challenge problem.  So, if your kid loves that sort of thing, fantastic!  Give them that opportunity!  If your kid wants to do their class work using a regular program and then spend their spare time reading or drawing or at sports/music practice or trying new things, that is also fantastic!  Spouse and I both have STEM PhDs and neither of us did anything career-focused as teens - we took the most advanced classes that our schools offered, which wasn't anything unusual, and I took an extra science elective in high school, but a lack of passion for doing something for fun doesn't mean that they aren't really interested.  I read science because it's interesting, but I also read cozy mysteries because my brain likes to take breaks.  🙂  I sometimes see a perception that if kids aren't doing academics all the time or for fun then they aren't really gifted, but most of the gifted folks that I know enjoy normal stuff and don't do work for fun (although some do, and that's great!).  I know that you know this, but it might be helpful to state it explicitly with examples.  The one time I bought into the lie and pushed kid a  little, it turned kid against the subject for a few months...

[Dmmetler]

I spent part of today creating a sample plan for Calvin (as in Calvin and Hobbes), based on examples from the comic strips, so we can discuss looking at your child and making decisions based on them (Calvin is definitely an autodidact who does most of his learning outside of school and would likely thrive as a homeschooled kid.) 

 

I don't know how much I'll end up using (I suspect I have several hours of material already), but I had fun. And it's also a way to get an example to talk about that isn't someone's specific kid). 

[8filltheheart]

I love it! Great idea!

[El...]

I wish I could attend your talk!

[Dmmetler]

If you want to see what I've got put together so far, here's what I have. The Calvin and Hobbes Stuff is slides 8-28, and that's the one part I feel pretty good about-the stuff before and after is definitely a work in progress right now (and the whole thing is probably too long). 

. Gifted homeschooling presentation slides, so far.

[El...]

I love the Calvin and Hobbies angle. It's a great way to inspire thought without the weight of your fears for your own kid.

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, El... said:

I love the Calvin and Hobbies angle. It's a great way to inspire thought without the weight of your fears for your own kid.

I'm thinking I'll go through Go Comics and see if I can find stuff for Jason from Fox Trot, too, as an older example (where Jason is middle school aged but is clearly accelerated in math and science to the degree that competition math, DE vs AoPS, talent search and finding research opportunities would make sense to address). I won't be able to do both in an hour workshop, but it would let me choose which to present based on who is in the room, so I'm not talking about 2nd grade with families who showed up because I often answer questions about Early college on the local forums. 

 

I can't think of a good teen example-all the comic strip teens I can think of tend to be more on the slacker side. 

 

[Penderwink]

Not a comic book, but Hermione Granger as teen example? Illustrates some examples like studying a broader than usual range of courses, choosing the most challenging courses, high level independent study, creative ways to access out-of-level academic resources, frustration with less competent teachers, ultimately needing more?

[bookbard]

I always recommend Lori Pickert's Project Based Homeschooling book - so helpful esp for families with gifted kids, and esp autodidacts. Basically how you as the parent can help them develop the skills for exploring and sharing their own interests.

My daughter is 12 and was almost entirely self-led this year. Not only exploring special interests (ancient Babylonian mythology and its link to Greek mythology), but also forming a group of other homeschoolers who worked on a massive project involving coding, animation and voice acting. Basic maths fell to the wayside, but I had her tested and it was still way ahead of her age so I've let that concern go. I guess this year has been all about trusting her and that can be a hard thing for parents. 

[Dmmetler]

4 hours ago, Penderwink said:

Not a comic book, but Hermione Granger as teen example? Illustrates some examples like studying a broader than usual range of courses, choosing the most challenging courses, high level independent study, creative ways to access out-of-level academic resources, frustration with less competent teachers, ultimately needing more?

For giftedness, yes, but there’s no way I could come up with an adequate homeschooling plan with the resources I (or Hermione’s dentist parents) could access! 
 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

29 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

For giftedness, yes, but there’s no way I could come up with an adequate homeschooling plan with the resources I (or Hermione’s dentist parents) could access! 

I could come with an angle.   Can you imagine what Hermione would have studied/read if she could have studied whatever she wanted?  Your options are limited by your imagination, a library card/internet search/book store/budget.  I have a kid who spent a yr on black holes and time warps.

[Lucy the Valiant]

^ Echoing 8's angle . . . I personally struggled with "trusting the kid" . . . because, Valid Reasons. So my advice to younger moms now is to "work WITH the kid" (yes, kid must allow this). Example: Kid wanted to skip "all English" one year and study game theory instead . . . I was fine with no "literature" because kid read real books all the time, but was concerned that this was an elaborate ploy to avoid any type of language arts / writing skills, which kid still did need. Kid independently came up with a Great Courses video series that he proposed to watch & take notes on (while learning different styles of note-taking), write summaries of the lectures to include small graphs & MLA documentation, and designed a "big fun project, Mama!" at the end. -----> Yep. He sold the idea, and it was SPLENDID. (If I had REQUIRED kid to do that level of work at that age, there would have been a rebellion.) This kind of example is helpful for parents who don't yet have the experience / confidence to "trust the child."

 

[8filltheheart]

11 hours ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

^ Echoing 8's angle . . . I personally struggled with "trusting the kid" . . . because, Valid Reasons. So my advice to younger moms now is to "work WITH the kid" (yes, kid must allow this). Example: Kid wanted to skip "all English" one year and study game theory instead . . . I was fine with no "literature" because kid read real books all the time, but was concerned that this was an elaborate ploy to avoid any type of language arts / writing skills, which kid still did need. Kid independently came up with a Great Courses video series that he proposed to watch & take notes on (while learning different styles of note-taking), write summaries of the lectures to include small graphs & MLA documentation, and designed a "big fun project, Mama!" at the end. -----> Yep. He sold the idea, and it was SPLENDID. (If I had REQUIRED kid to do that level of work at that age, there would have been a rebellion.) This kind of example is helpful for parents who don't yet have the experience / confidence to "trust the child."

 

Yes. Hermione is the perfect example of an internally motivated student who if asked what she wants to learn would have answers to share.  Providing her the resources to accomplish her goals would allow her to thrive and learn without an artificial boundary.  Her mentality is my goal for my kids. Most of my kids have been that way in at least some areas even if not all. Some have been there in everything. 

[Dmmetler]

My concern with Hermione is that while she's autodidactic and would do great homeschooling in the Muggle world, she'd be unable to access resources in the wizarding world because her parents aren't wizards and she'd have no way to make those contacts-as in she wouldn't even have the library or the equivalent of the World Wide Web. Now, if she could go live with the Weasleys and be homeschooled there, that might work really well-Molly is about the ultimate homeschooling mom. 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Dmmetler

[Lucy the Valiant]

37 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

My concern with Hermione is that while she's autodidactic and would do great homeschooling in the Muggle world, she'd be unable to access resources in the wizarding world because her parents aren't wizards and she'd have no way to make those contacts-as in she wouldn't even have the library or the equivalent of the World Wide Web. Now, if she could go live with the Weasleys and be homeschooled there, that might work really well-Molly is about the ultimate homeschooling mom. 

 

This may be why your talk is aimed at PARENTS of gifted kids, and not the kids themselves. ❤️

 

[Dmmetler]

Now, Fred and George are also autodidactic, and are within the wizarding world, so could access such resources....

[8filltheheart]

Far too literal. (Her parents weren't wizards, but she had the gift!) I think the spin is more along the lines of not having to know or be an expert yourself. I dont know French, but my dd taught herself to fluency. I cant do math beyond alg2 at this pt in my life, but I have really strong math kids (one who graduated high school with a math minor). I know absolutely nothing about music but my 8th grade dd is heading to All State for both choir and orchestra. 

The pt is to not think about education like a school does or with limits. 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by 8filltheheart

[EKS]

First, I think your slides are awesome!  I love using Calvin as an example.

With regard to Hermione (and keep in mind that I've only read the first HP book and seen the first HP movie), I always thought that she was a perfect example of a nongifted overachiever.

[Malam]

She's certainly an overachiever, but there's no way to know whether she's gifted or not, as the wizarding world doesn't exactly have IQ tests. For the purpose of providing the audience with another example opposite to Calvin in just about every way, I think it's fine to assume she is.

[8filltheheart]

5 hours ago, Malam said:

She's certainly an overachiever, but there's no way to know whether she's gifted or not, as the wizarding world doesn't exactly have IQ tests. For the purpose of providing the audience with another example opposite to Calvin in just about every way, I think it's fine to assume she is.

Right.  She also illustrates the ability to see the big picture or offer perspectives outside of everyone else's.

[EKS]

7 hours ago, Malam said:

She's certainly an overachiever, but there's no way to know whether she's gifted or not, as the wizarding world doesn't exactly have IQ tests. For the purpose of providing the audience with another example opposite to Calvin in just about every way, I think it's fine to assume she is.

I always thought that the contrast between Harry and Hermione was supposed to be, in part at least, showing the difference between a truly gifted individual and a grind who merely knows a lot.  Again, my experience is only with the first book/movie.  Perhaps Hermione's character is developed throughout the series into something beyond a grind.

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

I always thought that the contrast between Harry and Hermione was supposed to be, in part at least, showing the difference between a truly gifted individual and a grind who merely knows a lot.  Again, my experience is only with the first book/movie.  Perhaps Hermione's character is developed throughout the series into something beyond a grind.

Yes, she does. That perspective in the 1st bk is that of 11 yo boys.

She is really more like an insatiable sponge that always wants to learn and understand more vs waiting to be told or left guessing or in ignorance.

Edited December 14, 2023 by 8filltheheart

[EKS]

47 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

Yes, she does. That perspective in the 1st bk is that of 11 yo boys.

She is really more like an insatiable sponge that always wants to learn and understand more vs waiting to be told or left guessing or in ignorance.

Perhaps I should read the rest of the series!

[Malam]

If we're going by the official story, the most gifted student in Hogwarts' history would be Tom Riddle, a.k.a. Voldemort. Maybe we could leave him out...

[8filltheheart]

9 hours ago, Malam said:

If we're going by the official story, the most gifted student in Hogwarts' history would be Tom Riddle, a.k.a. Voldemort. Maybe we could leave him out...

Truth!

[SFisher]

I’m a little late to the discussion, but it’s a very interesting topic.

My boys were homeschooled early on and are at public school now.  Here’s a couple things that I’d add with them in mind:

Some kids are visual-spatial oriented. Their input and out put are different than the norm. They need to see, touch, move around to learn. They need to take apart and make to understand. In my boys’ case, they are constantly building something. Tinkering. Taking something apart. Drawing. Now they have gotten into making plays, stop motion, video. Having a home that welcomes this type of learning is a good for these kids but very different than typical school.

Some kids are non linear thinkers. This is hard to explain and probably appears differently in each person. In my kids’ case, learning something like math in curriculum sequence is linear. Learning math by asking questions, building things, inventing games, playing with commerce by selling things is non linear. Sometimes seeing the bigger picture or a reason to use math is more meaningful than the sequence. Typical school is linear. Homeschool can be nonlinear. Or a mixture. 

One of mine is 2e and his skills are wildly asynchronous. His comprehension, vocabulary and desire to learn from advanced text far outpaced his ability to read. His understanding of math concepts far outpaced his handwriting. And on and on… Homeschooling can allow you to find  customized ways to support the asynchrony. 

[8filltheheart]

Have you given the talk? If so, how'd it go? (I'm assuming great!)

[Dmmetler]

Jan 5 :). I'm working on the notes/resource lists now (including the music ed resources I'd thought I'd use for the talk I originally planned to give until they asked me to do gifted ed instead, because, darn it, it's a good set of resources, and while I have paid subscriptions or have bought the books, they all have some really awesome free stuff).  My plan is to have QR codes for the slides for the talk, the resource list, and to link to my class listing for Spring, vs giving people a ton of paper. 

 

[8filltheheart]

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

Jan 5 :). I'm working on the notes/resource lists now (including the music ed resources I'd thought I'd use for the talk I originally planned to give until they asked me to do gifted ed instead, because, darn it, it's a good set of resources, and while I have paid subscriptions or have bought the books, they all have some really awesome free stuff).  My plan is to have QR codes for the slides for the talk, the resource list, and to link to my class listing for Spring, vs giving people a ton of paper. 

 

Would you be willing to share your music ed resources?  My 8th grader is pretty convinced she wants to pursue classical violin performance.  I know nothing about music at all and music education is sorely lacking in our home.  (Good thing she is gifted musically bc she isn't getting what she needs from me!) I just told her today that we are going to start some sort of classical music study bc we don't listen to classical music.  All of her classical music is from violin lessons and orchestra.  That is a void I need to fill. (She is already studying theory using the ABRSM books and also with her piano teacher (piano is another thing we realized she needs if she majors in music.)

[Dmmetler]

Here's the one I'm planning to make available. It's focused on the elementary level since that's most of what I have space on my schedule for, and because usually that's who shows up at these things.

 

 https://1drv.ms/w/s!AqhlDRheZhQjlOYlcF1hE04yCTHCMA

 

I have some other stuff in Google Classroom that I've done for my classes-I PM'd you. 

 

[Dmmetler]

Eep! Tomorrow's the day! They just put out the vendor list, and the vendor hall is PACKED-and over 360 people have indicated they're planning to attend the conference on FB. It's the first one we've had locally since 2019. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

Hope it went well!

[Dmmetler]

I think it did. I had about 12 people in the session, mostly moms of young kids who are facing the realization that school...just won't work. 

[madteaparty]

On 12/4/2023 at 3:16 PM, Penderwink said:

Not specifically for accelerated kids, but adding a second language for a young child seems more accessible with online lessons, Netflix in multiple languages, reading apps in specific languages etc.

It seems to me that the range of very detailed, non-fiction picture books suitable also for older children has also increased especially for science/humanities such that you can cover a lot of ground and follow up interests while avoiding a formal curriculum at a young age.

 

Was wondering if you’re aware of any of these reading apps in French. We used to have and love j’aime lire but it merged with another app and we haven’t touched it yet. Doing the old audible/book thing now 

[Penderwink]

I don’t know in detail for French, sorry. A bit of googling suggested Storyplayr, for something digital. Habbi Habbi reading wand/ books is also now offering French but it is basic.

Tiptoi reading pen offers some options in french: https://www.ravensburger.fr/produits/tiptoi/index.html

You could also look here: https://www.little-linguist.co.uk/talking-pen-starter-pack-french.html

Or similar resources probably exist in Canada?