.

[notagoodfitafterall]

.

[kirstenhill]

I'm not coming from the exact same situation (so far all my kids are interested in going to college), but my DD was not a super-motivated/super-academic student in high school and didn't want to do any test prep for the ACT.   

I think it helps to keep in mind that in most states (I know this isn't the case everywhere), there are non-flagship state universities that will accept most students who apply, with relatively reasonable requirements - basic high school coursework (doesn't have to be AP), and reasonable test scores. 

My DD was able to get a reasonable score that fit the non-competitive admissions for the school she decided to go to with zero test prep.  She didn't even look at the sample test.   I know she could have gotten a higher score with more practice, and many students get much higher scores than she did...but it was good enough! She could even get mid-level "automatic merit" aid.    She also had decent coursework, and a mix of As and Bs for grades (she did take two AP courses, but this is far from the total number possible - she would have only had 1, but Stats was only offered as AP her senior year).  She just took the "basic 4" of science/social studies/math/English each year plus a foreign language, and then electives like art and culinary.    She pretty much did no volunteer work and only one extracurricular activity, and spent a lot of time on personal hobbies and a part time job.  She did about the opposite of what I did or what her next younger brother is doing, and still was able to head of to college.

I think if one of my younger students was thinking they weren't sure about 4 year college, I would have them take credits that filled the basic entry requirements for a non-competitive state university (it might be less than 4 years of science or social studies), but not focus on honors/AP level work.  A lot can happen between 8th and 12th grade to cause them to change their mind! They might see friends go on to successfully study at a 4 year school or learn about a career they've never heard prior to this point that would lead them to decide they still want to take the university route. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by kirstenhill
typo

[flmom79]

I have no answer here, but it's an excellent question and I'm curious to see what counsel others have.  My instinct is to still focus on solid course work that will make some level of change of mind/direction possible, but without course plans selected primarily to impress (such as AP).  I do think one mistake occasionally made is assuming that child X "isn't going to be a_____, so she doesn't need to know______" and leaving holes in the knowledge base that may later be regretted.  

[Frances]

My motto was always to leave options open. I would still pursue the college prep curriculum (which doesn’t necessarily need to include DE or AP) you had planned, but let them explore areas of interest at the trade school. As for trying to impress colleges, I think you could present it more as trying to earn $ because that’s what things such as good SAT scores can do. In general, it’s far easier to earn money that way than it is to work at a low level job and pay for tuition. And not having to work during the school year while in college or only working at on-campus jobs (especially if you can secure one related to your major) can often make it more likely the student will be able to concentrate on their studies, fully immerse themselves in the college experience (and I’m not talking about partying here, but rather all of the opportunities to grow and learn) and graduate on time.

As for your BIL, it wasn’t clear to me if you were counting the general studies AA done during high school in the eight years you mentioned. It’s not unusual for students to take five years to get a BS in engineering due to the rigor of the program. Also, was he trying to work while pursuing his BS degree? Students with challenging majors such as engineering often need to fully focus on school to be successful. 

I would be concerned about your son’s plan to finish a BS in Engineering online. I’m honestly surprised that’s even a possibility given the labs and hands-on and group work that is part of most engineering programs. From everything I heard about college from my engineering friends, it’s hard to imagine not doing it in person, as it’s generally very collaborative. Plus, they really enjoyed some of the hands-on and team oriented engineering ECs and these also provided important skills. Also, I could see working during the summer or during co-ops for schools that offer them or a very limited number of hours during the school year. But most students find engineering to be a very challenging major and need to devote themselves fully to it in order to be successful.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Frances

[Momto6inIN]

I've told my kids that I don't care if they go to college, as long as they have a plan.

I also tell them that it's my job to prepare them in high school to the best of my ability, and that means college prep classes whether they decide to go or not. If they don't go to college, then they will still have a great robust education as their last formal schooling. If they do go to college, then they'll be prepared. If they are interested in trades/apprenticeships/certificate programs then that's great too, they can be worked in as electives and they'll be set for that possibility too.

AP classes aren't necessary and SAT prep can be done at the last minute if they change their mind and they want to go to college after all.

[Matryoshka]

For my least-motivated student, we did DE (at the CC).  She did great once she got the core classes out of the way and could take classes in things that she saw an end-point with.  She got her AA by 18, then transferred to the public 4-year and graduated by 20.  She could have also decided to be done after the AA if she'd decided on that direction.  She would've not done well if I'd forced her to do the 'standard' high school curriculum.  

Seems a contradiction to 'accelerate' an unmotivated student, but the problem wasn't intelligence but lack of engagement and just not enjoying school.   Because of the guaranteed CC Transfer program to Public Uni our state has, she also didn't have to worry about getting a super-high GPA.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Matryoshka

[maize]

Just plan ninth grade for now. An awful lot can change in four years, especially for adolescents. 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

I wasn't counting the in-high school almost-AA as time spent in school for my BIL. I was counting only the post-high school time spent. He does some part-time work at the campus library is all the work I know of him doing.

Really? All the programs we've looked at have offered online options, and my understanding is that ODU is switching entirely to online courses with their ODUGlobal initiative (my understanding could be wrong, but several people who are currently enrolled have said something similar). Huh. I guess that's something to consider. 

Oregon State University is a land grant university with a large College of Engineering. It also has one of the oldest and most highly ranked online college programs in the country. None of their undergraduate engineering majors are available online.

While I can imagine some engineering degrees that could be done online (computer engineering?), I have a hard time imagining all of the normal engineering degrees offered online. How do the handle the labs? Most engineers I know loved all of the hands-on, both formal and informal, experiences that had in engineering school. It seems all of that would be absent doing the degree remotely and it would just be a list of courses to complete. Plus, study groups also seemed to be a big part of the engineering culture. 

My son was a STEM major and did one online course in high school and that was enough to convince him he would never take one again. He loved the hands-on labs and research he did in undergrad and students working together in labs and on problem sets was a big part of his experience, as was regularly interacting in person with faculty members. And he’s an introvert. He was an excellent student who graduated with top honors, but I think he would have been the first to admit that he likely wouldn’t have graduated had his degree been online. I think it takes a very specific type of person to be successful in an online environment, especially in a challenging major like engineering.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Frances

[Lori D.]

Neither of our DSs knew what they wanted to do as a career all through high school, and even into their early 20s. DS#2 also has mild LDs, which would make traditional college not impossible--but quite challenging.

I still worked to keep as many possible future doors open as possible, by shooting for completing a college prep set of credits -- i.e., accomplishing the # of credits and types of credits that most average universities would want for admission. 

HOW we chose to accomplish those credits was where we had great flexibility to fit interests and needs, and to give DSs exposure to all kinds of subjects so that they might find something that would work well as a future career field.

DSs both ended up with NON-traditional straight-to-college-straight-to-career paths, and both ultimately ended up with great jobs that fit them perfectly:

DS#1 -- community college and university
- 3 years at CC; earned an AAS in Digital Film/Video Production and an AA (transfer degree)
- 2 years at a smaller liberal arts college, with scholarships; BA in a general Humanities area
- 1 year looking for work + career testing/career exploration to find his real love -- Engineering
- 2 years back at the CC, for the Engineering transfer program
- 2.5 years at the local university, for the BS in Mech. Eng.
- in that last year, he had a paid internship with the local Engineering firm that he now works for

[re: online engineering courses -- ONLY because of covid shut-down were some of DS's Engineering courses forcibly moved to be online -- NONE would have been online otherwise. You really do NOT want those upper level (jr./sr. year of college) classes to be online -- you miss out on way too much critical hands-on labs and networking that can only happen in person]

DS#2 - some community college; mostly on-the-job and self-learning
- 2 years at CC; decided he did not want to finish the 3-year AAS in Interpretation for the Deaf
- 1 year working virtually full time
- 9-month commitment with AmeriCorps (domestic version of the Peace Corps), with a trail conservation/restoration program
- self-taught/passed the required online coursework for applying to US Forest Service wildland firefighting 
- 6 seasons (6-month season per year) as wildland firefighter
- used his AmeriCorps $$ credit and earned his EMT certification through a fast-paced in-person program
- this year, landed a permanent position with benefits, and moving up the ladder towards supervisory position
________________


That said, a few comments:

You don't need APs and DE for college admission.
You will probably need an SAT or ACT score for admission, and for some scholarships.
You can delay going to college until you determine if you really need/want a 4-year degree.
You can try out Vocational-Technical coursework as DE at a community college while skill in high school.
You can do some regular Career Exploration, job shadowing, etc. in high school to figure out options.

You can plan for a gap year to take time to figure out what you want to do, as well as gain experience, skills, maturity, in a year between graduating from high school and starting college -- and still come in as a freshman with freshman scholarships.

There are lots of great-paying jobs that don't require a 4-year (or higher) degree:
- 2-year AAS degree (the straight-to-work degree)
- certificate programs -- skilled trades, but also a number of IT certificates are landing decent jobs
- apprenticeship (earn while learning)

DS#2's best friend is finishing up his Electrician's apprenticeship -- no debt, paid to learn, wages go up every time he passes another unit. Once he passes the final licensing test at the end of the apprenticeship, he will be making good $$.

I know of a homeschooler who only has her high school diploma and no community college courses at all and who has worked her way up into a good job as an insurance claims adjustor.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

5 hours ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

We are currently making high school plans for the three oldest of our children. All are 8th graders - a singleton and a set of twins who came ten months later. We've hit a road bump: they are all becoming less interested in college...

...Does anyone have advice on planning with a similar situation?

I missed this critical detail in my first read through.

Kids change SOOOO much between 8th grade and 12th grade. I would NOT be making college/no-college decisions based on an 8th grader's very inexperienced perceptions about their possible future adult life. 😉

Agreeing with @maize 100% -- focus on planning for the children before you right now, to give each of them their best 9th grade year.

And plan enough credits and type of credits to be college prep, whether college ends up being in their future or not. At 9th grade, that's unlikely to be a problem. That would likely be a total of 5-7 credits for 9th grade:

1 credit = English  (usually 1/2 writing + 1/2 literature)
1 credit = Math  (usually Algebra 1 or Geometry)
1 credit = Science  (can be whatever area of Science is of high interest to each)
1 credit = Social Studies (can be History, Geography, Psychology, Philosophy, Anthropology, Archeology, Economics, Government, Political Sciences, Sociology -- what would you all be interested in learning about? 😉 )
[possibly 1 credit Foreign Language]
[possibly 1 credit Fine Arts]
at least 1 credit = Elective  (examples: Logic, Computer, Health, PE, Religious Studies, Vocational-Tech subject area, personal interest area, etc. -- again, what would each of them be interested in exploring? 😉 )

Edited March 29, 2023 by Lori D.

[Frances]

I guess it depends on what he means by being able to support himself. If he’s living at home while at CC, but working enough to pay for all of his personal expenses, and save some $ for when he transfers, that seems very doable. He would also have summers and school breaks to work and maybe some during the school year once he transfers. Often, sharing expenses with several other students in off campus housing can be an economical way to save money. Sometimes it is more advantageous to take on a small amount of debt, say for tuition, so as to be able to focus on school and finish in a timely manner, rather than working so much that it interferes with timely graduation.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Frances

[Lori D.]

46 minutes ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

... I'm not sure that will translate to my ds, though, because, unless there's a major change, the prospect of four full years after graduation of still being "a kid" (not able to support himself) is probably going to turn him off from college even more. 

I would keep the focus right now on finishing 8th grade. There is NO need to have college discussions right now. 😉

Next year, keep the focus on: "We are focusing on doing 9th grade with excellence, because that opens up many MORE future options for you."

Your conversations and focus can include the excitement of trying out extracurriculars that are only open to high school aged students -- sports, Model UN, community theater, summer workshops and programs, etc. etc. 

High school is the time when the students start getting more input into what they want to study. For example, the writing portion the English credit could focus on novel writing, or journalism if those are of interest.

I'd also suggest include field trips each year of high school that are for these older ages, to explore career fields. And as you do career exploration throughout high school, be sure to point out that many degree programs (such as engineering) have the ability for you to work at a paid internship while finishing your degree, so it's not like you're a "kid" and "unable to support yourself" while you're finishing many types of college degrees. 😉 

And, it sounds like $$ and the ability to earn $$ is important to your DS. He could, even now in 8th grade, be doing entrepreneurial things and working. Start his own business of a lawn mowing or dog walking or daily cleaning up dog litter for several regular clients. One student of mine had his own egg business with his backyard chickens from the time he was 12yo. I was HAPPY to pay him for fresh eggs! 😄 

If he is really $$ and business-minded, he might enjoy involvement with one of these high school groups, if you have one in your area:
DECA
National Beta Club
Future Investor's Club of America
 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

7 minutes ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

In our area, people treat 18-25 year olds very differently based on if they're in school or working. I would say that college kids who don't work are treated like teenagers, but, honestly, it's generally worse. People tend to see them as overly immature freeloaders because back in the 90s and early 2000s a lot of people bought into the party culture at colleges. That ten-year mini-generation didn't do well in the long run. As such, my son wants to work enough that he can be respected as being a "real" adult. 

Who cares "what other people think"? He can go to college AND work (both of my DSs did), and not give a flip about what "people" or "they" (that mysterious group, lol) say. 

Homeschoolers are used to bucking trends and stereotypes. By the time he graduates, he'll be a pro at letting whatever "people say" roll off his back. In fact, bucking the stereotype might give your DS a real kick and incentive about going to college when he gets there. 😉 

My DS#2 LOVES defying the stereotypes and loves doing the unexpected. 😉

Edited March 29, 2023 by Lori D.

[Frances]

5 hours ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

In our area, people treat 18-25 year olds very differently based on if they're in school or working. I would say that college kids who don't work are treated like teenagers, but, honestly, it's generally worse. People tend to see them as overly immature freeloaders because back in the 90s and early 2000s a lot of people bought into the party culture at colleges. That ten-year mini-generation didn't do well in the long run. As such, my son wants to work enough that he can be respected as being a "real" adult. 

But how would anyone even know if he was working? Most college students I know work at least some. My son worked one weekend day during the school year, summers (in addition to doing research, so seven days per week), and holidays. He made enough $ to pay for everything because his job was very lucrative and he was very good at it.  But he didn’t need to because he had a full tuition scholarship. So instead he graduated with substantial savings. I know this isn’t normal, but I think not working at all during college is somewhat unusual these days.

Also, people who haven’t done a difficult college major like engineering, even if they went to college, often don’t realize the time commitment needed to do well in a demanding major. 

Have you looked any engineering programs that have co-ops or internships so he can get work experience while in college? Often these lead directly to jobs after graduation.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Frances

[Lori D.]

52 minutes ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

I hope you're right. Ds takes things to heart. 

I should have prefaced that comment about "who cares what they say" -- I really did mean that kindly, and not dismissively.

I can't discern if you are Christian or not -- if not, then please disregard, but please know that I mean this with great kindness and with a desire to encourage:

The Lord knows your needs, and he knows his plans for you, and for each of your children. Is it good for you to look ahead/plan ahead? Yes. But not good to fret, which is often what happens when we are trying to plan too far ahead, and not focusing on what the Lord may have for us to do or learn today.

Many of your posts (in more than just this thread) have had an almost anxious edge to them. I am so sorry that things are tight for your family financially. That is a hard place to be. And, as you mentioned in your initial post of this thread, you have had a lot of negative college examples around you. That is too bad.

Perhaps this would be a good point to take a deep breath, and step away from the post-high school research for a bit, and focus on planning a wonderful, engaging, challenging, exciting 9th grade. And model for your children, especially your tender-hearted / takes things to heart DS, how to let go of *worry* about the future (which takes so much energy), and instead, expend that energy positively on an amazing 9th grade year. Make memories together. Take the lesser-traveled paths. Look for fun extracurriculars. Read aloud together. Talk about everything. Build a solid foundation of relationship that will not break when it comes time in a few years to THEN discuss post-high school options.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Lori D.

[chiguirre]

7 hours ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

We are currently making high school plans for the three oldest of our children. All are 8th graders - a singleton and a set of twins who came ten months later. We've hit a road bump: they are all becoming less interested in college.

Nobody had expected our oldest to go to college. Her plan has always been to follow her uncle's footsteps and join the Marines then work private security. They have a shortage of medics, so she is contemplating doing either an EMT or LPN program before enlisting. Her plan will remain relatively unchanged.

 

The Marines don't have Marine medics, they have Navy hospital corpsmen. A person who wants to be a Marine medic joins the Navy as an HM and then expresses interest in going FMF (greenside) during their A school (the medic training after Boot Camp). The one thing your dd might want to think about is that the Navy isn't big on teaching sailors to shoot. My dd has spent a grand total of 3 days learning to/refreshing her training on how to handle a pistol during her almost 2 years in the Navy. She's never stood an armed watch in all of that time and isn't likely to, although she does have a spiffy marksmanship ribbon. If your dd's career goal is private security, she might be better off joining the Marines, although that would mean not being a medic. (The reason the Navy supplies the medics is that they do not carry a rifle which contradicts the "Every Marine a rifleman" ethos of the Corps.)

You can get an immense amount of information about Navy HMs on the New to the Navy subreddit. There is a similar subreddit for Marines where you can read about different MOSes and their pros and cons. If she does want to be a Navy HM, there's no point in getting an EMT or LPN before joining. HMs do the basic EMT training as part of their A school and then can get further training depending on what specific job they're assigned to. You can get a contract that specifies what further training you will receive after A school, so it's worth exploring those options.

If your dd or either of your twins decides to go the military route, it is very advantageous to get as many DE credits as possible during high school. You automatically get promoted to E3 if you go in with 48 semester hours (E2 with 24). This saves more than a year and half off the time to promote and means you earn about $400/month more starting the first day of Boot Camp. You can also finish a BA or BS quicker and save part of your GI Bill for a master's degree or career training (like flying lessons or IT certificates, etc.) The Post 9/11 GI Bill is a fabulous deal. It's basically a full ride to any public university (and some private ones that participate in the Yellow Ribbon program). It pays in-state tuition (and a recent vet is considered in-state for every state) and a living stipend that is equal to the Basic Allowance for Housing that a military member would get in the college's location. Neither BAH nor the tuition is taxable.

It's worth spending some time investigating what careers are available in each branch and learning about the GI Bill, VA home loan program and job opportunities for veterans to understand what's available and trace out some possible paths. There's a lot to learn about the military and if you don't put in the time you can end up losing out on some excellent opportunities. It's important to research possible MOS/rates and not just take what the recruiter tells you is available right now. It is worth waiting a couple of months to get the job you want.

I tried to define the military jargon, but some might have slipped through. If you have any questions, just quote me so I see them or feel free to PM me.

[Malam]

The best way would be to have them dual enroll in some college classes to get some more personal experience. Hopefully, doing well in those courses will give them the confidence in their ability to complete a degree. It would also do your son good to have a job while in high school to get experience there as well.

1 hour ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

It's not a huge area, so a lot of people just know where you work because they see you or know somebody else who works there. It's not uncommon for anyone, especially in that age group, to be asked point blank where or if they're working

Would he be commuting to a local college, which is how he'd interact with people from that area?

28 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

You automatically get promoted to E3 if you go in with 48 semester hours (E2 with 24). This

What if the student has some CLEP/AP exams on their transcript? Those would count as well, right?

Edited March 30, 2023 by Malam

[chiguirre]

2 minutes ago, Malam said:

What if the student has some CLEP/AP exams on their transcript? Those would count as well, right?

You need to get them on a college transcript that awards them credit. I attended a DE orientation at my local public high school and they recommended taking a class at our local CC and having them transcript all the AP or CLEP credits so that a degree granting institution had recognized them. 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

It's not a huge area, so a lot of people just know where you work because they see you or know somebody else who works there. It's not uncommon for anyone, especially in that age group, to be asked point blank where or if they're working. 

Do you mean full-time work or would these people whose opinion he cares about accept part time work? I think it’s pretty unusual these days for a college student to not work at all during four years of college, including summers. Probably about as unusual as a young college student being able to work full time and complete a demanding degree such as engineering in four years. There really is a very wide swath of middle ground. 
 

Also, in terms of competing an engineering degree online, I would be asking lots of questions about completion rates, time to completion, job placement, etc. before even considering such a program. There is an awful lot that goes on in engineering programs besides the classes. In a few years when you are doing college visits, I think he will be able to see for himself all that he would be missing and how much more difficult it would be to do it online, especially once he had the chance to talk with current students and see the facilities. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Frances

[Sneezyone]

3 hours ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

In our area, people treat 18-25 year olds very differently based on if they're in school or working. I would say that college kids who don't work are treated like teenagers, but, honestly, it's generally worse. People tend to see them as overly immature freeloaders because back in the 90s and early 2000s a lot of people bought into the party culture at colleges. That ten-year mini-generation didn't do well in the long run. As such, my son wants to work enough that he can be respected as being a "real" adult. 

Many of us are part of that generation, IJS. We're doing just fine.

[Sneezyone]

54 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

The Marines don't have Marine medics, they have Navy hospital corpsmen. A person who wants to be a Marine medic joins the Navy as an HM and then expresses interest in going FMF (greenside) during their A school (the medic training after Boot Camp). The one thing your dd might want to think about is that the Navy isn't big on teaching sailors to shoot. My dd has spent a grand total of 3 days learning to/refreshing her training on how to handle a pistol during her almost 2 years in the Navy. She's never stood an armed watch in all of that time and isn't likely to, although she does have a spiffy marksmanship ribbon. If your dd's career goal is private security, she might be better off joining the Marines, although that would mean not being a medic. (The reason the Navy supplies the medics is that they do not carry a rifle which contradicts the "Every Marine a rifleman" ethos of the Corps.)

You can get an immense amount of information about Navy HMs on the New to the Navy subreddit. There is a similar subreddit for Marines where you can read about different MOSes and their pros and cons. If she does want to be a Navy HM, there's no point in getting an EMT or LPN before joining. HMs do the basic EMT training as part of their A school and then can get further training depending on what specific job they're assigned to. You can get a contract that specifies what further training you will receive after A school, so it's worth exploring those options.

If your dd or either of your twins decides to go the military route, it is very advantageous to get as many DE credits as possible during high school. You automatically get promoted to E3 if you go in with 48 semester hours (E2 with 24). This saves more than a year and half off the time to promote and means you earn about $400/month more starting the first day of Boot Camp. You can also finish a BA or BS quicker and save part of your GI Bill for a master's degree or career training (like flying lessons or IT certificates, etc.) The Post 9/11 GI Bill is a fabulous deal. It's basically a full ride to any public university (and some private ones that participate in the Yellow Ribbon program). It pays in-state tuition (and a recent vet is considered in-state for every state) and a living stipend that is equal to the Basic Allowance for Housing that a military member would get in the college's location. Neither BAH nor the tuition is taxable.

It's worth spending some time investigating what careers are available in each branch and learning about the GI Bill, VA home loan program and job opportunities for veterans to understand what's available and trace out some possible paths. There's a lot to learn about the military and if you don't put in the time you can end up losing out on some excellent opportunities. It's important to research possible MOS/rates and not just take what the recruiter tells you is available right now. It is worth waiting a couple of months to get the job you want.

I tried to define the military jargon, but some might have slipped through. If you have any questions, just quote me so I see them or feel free to PM me.

DD is currently dating an HM and I concur!

[Farrar]

Getting an associates and transferring is a good way to make a degree take longer in a lot of cases. I second that engineering is a 5 year degree in a lot of cases. But also, when you have to transfer -- even with a guaranteed transfer path -- it's easy for things to go wrong or take longer.

Being a college student is a full time job. It's great for students to additionally work. Nearly every college student I know works at least a little and some work a lot. But the work is not what makes them a responsible adult necessarily. 18-24ish is a transition time for young adults. Obviously some young adults have to work and working for any young adult is good because it builds a resume. But if a young person wants to be a engineer or another sort of professional, their part time job slinging chicken fingers is not what's going to get them there. College is the responsible, grown up thing they're doing to achieve that goal.

Most online colleges have a limited slate of degrees. There are some with mechanical engineering, but it's not as many as in other fields. Also, some online colleges are not that reputable. Some had terrible completion rates. Some are essentially debt mills. If you do choose to do an online degree, weigh it carefully.

In terms of the cost, people make a lot of bad decisions about this. College costs are complex. There are ways to keep your costs really low. There are ways to spend like mad. They are not always the things that you think. Starting at community college can turn out to be more expensive in the end sometimes, for example. Private colleges are not always more expensive than public ones. It really varies a ton. 

As for doing something to impress colleges, a good education impresses colleges. College courses, even as dual enrollment, can be taken for their own quality and educational value. Give them the high school education they deserve. And they're young. Don't make any big decisions yet.

[Farrar]

27 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Many of us are part of that generation, IJS. We're doing just fine.

Right? Like, the OP does realize that we're like, the current parents of teenagers and not some deadbeat generation. Xennials are doing fine.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Farrar

[lewelma]

I have a friend who is kind of anti-college. She just doesn't think that the job prospects for a lot of majors are worth the time an expense.  She gets her kids in about 8th grade to start making plans for the trades.  These are the jobs they have chosen.

DD1 Hairdresser

DD2 Makeup Artist - but actually started with McD and rose up very fast into management (running a store at age 24)

DS3 Builder

DD4 phlebotomist (had to look that one up! pulls blood)

DS5 Baker

DD6 Chiropractor (This one needs the most education, but not a bachelors degree here)

and 4 more to go.

Point is, there are lots of jobs out there that don't require a college degree. And some of them are both in high demand and well paid (I'm thinking of things like welder or plumber). Her main point is to make a plan.  You may not need college, but you need some sort of focused education and apprenticeship. So make a plan early and aim for that.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by lewelma

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

I meant locally. 

GenX is eeeeverywhere...quietly. 🤣 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

Just now, shoestringsandducttape said:

Yeah, and here a significant number ended up as addicts who threw their kids down on their parents. 

That's unfortunate. Maybe cast a wider net. https://fortune.com/recommends/investing/gen-x-average-net-worth/

My oldest has had a job and a used car she helped pay for since 16. She's 18 and going to college in the fall. DS(15) has no time but he'd work if he could. DH has worked pert near full time since he was 16 (through college, grad school and babies) and was born in 1980. I worked throughout college and grad school and babies too. I don't know where you live but we're out here going about our business and thriving.

[chiguirre]

51 minutes ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

Thank you.

I'm guessing this is one of those times where someone assumed we knew something we didn't (We had a woman in our church rave about the Air Force's training of nurses; she neglected to tell anyone that they only accept BSNs. There were a lot of fairly upset young RNs who confronted her after service that weekend). In this case, her uncle was talking about a lack of medics for the Marines, and I guess he forgot that the Navy does their healthcare. 

There's a shortfall of HMs right now because of the recruiting crises. It used to be one of the most overmanned rates in the Navy and now it's suddenly not.

Part of the reason for the recruiting shortfall is that the military now uses a medical information system called Genesis to pull recruits' entire medical history so many more people need waivers for past injuries or ADHD or temporary anxiety or depression, and of course, many of those waivers are denied. If any of your kids is seriously interested in enlisting, take a look at the physical requirements to make sure they'll be eligible. It's pretty crushing to have your plan in place and then find out you can't enlist.

[Sneezyone]

19 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

There's a shortfall of HMs right now because of the recruiting crises. It used to be one of the most overmanned rates in the Navy and now it's suddenly not.

Part of the reason for the recruiting shortfall is that the military now uses a medical information system called Genesis to pull recruits' entire medical history so many more people need waivers for past injuries or ADHD or temporary anxiety or depression, and of course, many of those waivers are denied. If any of your kids is seriously interested in enlisting, take a look at the physical requirements to make sure they'll be eligible. It's pretty crushing to have your plan in place and then find out you can't enlist.

Indeed. Sharing not b/c you don't know but b/c others might not. https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-military-genesis-medical-screening-recruiting/

[Shoeless]

10 hours ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

In our area, people treat 18-25 year olds very differently based on if they're in school or working. I would say that college kids who don't work are treated like teenagers, but, honestly, it's generally worse. People tend to see them as overly immature freeloaders because back in the 90s and early 2000s a lot of people bought into the party culture at colleges. That ten-year mini-generation didn't do well in the long run. As such, my son wants to work enough that he can be respected as being a "real" adult. 

 

6 hours ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

Part time would be fine, I think. The point would be not being seen as someone who is still freeloading off of us and would actually be able to help a bit.

Where do you live that this is even a thing?

Edited March 30, 2023 by Shoeless

[Eos]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:00 PM, shoestringsandducttape said:

 

 

Maybe it would be helpful for you and your kids to reframe this: what would it look like to have enough tools and support to avoid BIL's path? I agree with previous posters who say keeping doors open in high school is important.  So if any of your kids have difficulty keeping track of things, focus on that skill in high school.  There are good threads in the Motherlode about teaching executive function.  You might not know BIL's story but there might have been supports available, or a different pathway to his goal of a BS - would better guidance have helped? If he had to work during college, could he have worked more time in the summer and not during the school year?  I'm asking these rhetorically, to help you reconsider some of your worries for your own kids.  If your kids point out his challenges, you can brainstorm a different way for them, imagining together what tools they as individuals might need to develop.

I think it's also helpful to work backwards from the questions: "what do you love" and "what skills and resources will you need to get there?"  I'm not talking about woo - what do you love means what is motivational and meaningful?  I'm talking broad goals, not specifics: buying a home, supporting/having a family, not having debt, having a career helping others, working for the country, doing hands-on work, having an intellectually challenging job, a higher degree or teaching - any of these goals will suggest certain high school paths to help achieve them.  When my oldest was little I didn't want him to go to college before he had figured out what he wanted a degree for since we had no money and I wasn't supportive of the idea of going to college to find yourself or learn to think. 

In our area the trades are paying very well and are terribly understaffed.  No AI will ever be able to install an electrical entrance or unclog a pipe, so there's some long-term job security there.  But creating a high school curriculum that lets your kids take the SAT in the future if they decide at that point it's what they need to attain their goals will be the most helpful, in my opinion.  The classes don't have to be AP or DE, but you and your kids do need to figure out what each kid needs in terms of support to get what they want out of high school.  

Edited April 1, 2023 by Eos

[kirstenhill]

11 hours ago, Farrar said:

Getting an associates and transferring is a good way to make a degree take longer in a lot of cases. I second that engineering is a 5 year degree in a lot of cases. But also, when you have to transfer -- even with a guaranteed transfer path -- it's easy for things to go wrong or take longer.

 

QFT!  We know so many homeschoolers that promote doing two years full time DE during junior and senior years of hs (DE is free in our state) because it will "cut your college costs in half."   DH is always shaking his head and wishes he could shout from the rooftops that there needs to be about 5 asterisks attached to this.  His Engineering undergrad had only the most minimal distributed requirements (probably could all be 1 semester worth of classes if taken together), and had very, very specific math, physics/chem, etc requirements freshman year that CC classes might not match.  Starting 2nd year and continuing on, there were major specific classes, that had to be taken in sequence, so even if Freshman year was super carefully planned out with perfect DE classes, there would be no way to graduate in less than 3 years. 

Even my DD's major, which is less technical, has this interesting thing going on where several classes that count for her school's distributed requirements also count for something in her major - a double dip.  So, for the "international perspectives"  and "US Diversity" requirements, she can't just choose any course on the list, she takes one that is in her department.  She's in a specialization of food science, so these for her are courses related to world food issues and US cuisines/food culture.   So a student taking DE classes they think might meet university requirements like this, might find that while they would meet requirements in general even at a particular university, they might not meet requirements of a certain major. 

13 hours ago, shoestringsandducttape said:

It's not a huge area, so a lot of people just know where you work because they see you or know somebody else who works there. It's not uncommon for anyone, especially in that age group, to be asked point blank where or if they're working. 

I know people have piled on you a bit about this, but I hope you can find a way to help your kids see beyond their very local culture and what "everyone thinks" in their local area.  Post-high school is the perfect time to branch out, maybe go a bit further away and see that things aren't the same everywhere...who cares what your neighbor thinks if you are a state or more away?  I can count on one hand the number of high school friends I even keep in touch with, and no other "local people" - neighbors, teachers, high school part time job co-workers, etc.    It's a chance for a fresh start!

[Arcadia]

Deleted TMI

Edited March 31, 2023 by Arcadia