Enrollment Cliff ???

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

7 hours ago, MagistraKennedy said:

Wasn't this the way it was, years ago?

I’m not sure when you attended, but when I was in high school (~15-20yrs ago) anyone who wanted a high GPA took as many as possible. Our school weighted AP classes on a 6.0 scale. Many of my peers dropped all of their hobby extracurriculars because it dragged their GPA down too much to be in any class where “only” a 4.0 was possible.

The front office would post GPA (to the hundred-thousandth of a point) & updated class rank on huge bulletin boards every 6wks; made students absolutely neurotic. 

[Shoeless]

9 hours ago, MagistraKennedy said:

Wasn't this the way it was, years ago?

I took AP English and Bio 30+ years ago.  I can only think of 1 student besides myself that was in the classes because they really wanted to be there. Everyone was there to bank college credit and make their college apps look impressive. 

 

 

[kirstenhill]

8 hours ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

I’m not sure when you attended, but when I was in high school (~15-20yrs ago) anyone who wanted a high GPA took as many as possible. Our school weighted AP classes on a 6.0 scale. Many of my peers dropped all of their hobby extracurriculars because it dragged their GPA down too much to be in any class where “only” a 4.0 was possible.

The front office would post GPA (to the hundred-thousandth of a point) & updated class rank on huge bulletin boards every 6wks; made students absolutely neurotic. 

I get the impression that at some point the number of schools offering AP, weighted GPAs, etc must have tremendously increased.  So, I graduated a little less than 30 years ago, and my high school of 1600 students in a town of ~65,000 people (so, not some tiny rural school) offered zero AP classes and did not weight GPAs at all even for honors classes. They did offer 1 AP exam, which those of us that took calculus could take because "what we learned was close enough" to AP to take the exam. 

I knew in high school about AP classes/exams but thought at the time it was mainly kids in rich suburbs who got AP classes. Somewhere along the way it seems to have become something all but the tiniest schools have to offer. 

[SanDiegoMom]

12 hours ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

I’m not sure when you attended, but when I was in high school (~15-20yrs ago) anyone who wanted a high GPA took as many as possible. Our school weighted AP classes on a 6.0 scale. Many of my peers dropped all of their hobby extracurriculars because it dragged their GPA down too much to be in any class where “only” a 4.0 was possible.

The front office would post GPA (to the hundred-thousandth of a point) & updated class rank on huge bulletin boards every 6wks; made students absolutely neurotic. 

It must have increased after I went to high school.  We had only five APs (Macro and Micro taught as yearlong but two tests) and very few people took Calculus.  Now I look at my high school and they offer 21.  However they don't offer Chem or AP Physics C. It's not a high performing school - midsize (around 1600) but somewhat poorer area of town. 

[MagistraKennedy]

12 hours ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

I’m not sure when you attended, but when I was in high school (~15-20yrs ago) anyone who wanted a high GPA took as many as possible. Our school weighted AP classes on a 6.0 scale. Many of my peers dropped all of their hobby extracurriculars because it dragged their GPA down too much to be in any class where “only” a 4.0 was possible.

The front office would post GPA (to the hundred-thousandth of a point) & updated class rank on huge bulletin boards every 6wks; made students absolutely neurotic. 

Gosh no --- I graduated in 1991, from a public rural school. APs were weighted on a 5.0 scale. We had three tracks in high school --- honors, pre-college, then a vo-tech track. 

That sounds like a horrific experience. 

[MagistraKennedy]

11 hours ago, Shoeless said:

I took AP English and Bio 30+ years ago.  I can only think of 1 student besides myself that was in the classes because they really wanted to be there. Everyone was there to bank college credit and make their college apps look impressive. 

 

 

I think most of us were there because we wanted to be there, or it was what was offered for kids in the honors track. 🙍‍♀️

[Bootsie]

5 hours ago, kirstenhill said:

I get the impression that at some point the number of schools offering AP, weighted GPAs, etc must have tremendously increased.  So, I graduated a little less than 30 years ago, and my high school of 1600 students in a town of ~65,000 people (so, not some tiny rural school) offered zero AP classes and did not weight GPAs at all even for honors classes. They did offer 1 AP exam, which those of us that took calculus could take because "what we learned was close enough" to AP to take the exam. 

I knew in high school about AP classes/exams but thought at the time it was mainly kids in rich suburbs who got AP classes. Somewhere along the way it seems to have become something all but the tiniest schools have to offer. 

I graduated from high school over 40 years ago; we had over 500 in our graduating class.  We had no AP or dual enrollment classes.  There was an "honors biology" class offered in 10th grade--only one section--that you had to be invited to enroll in; we did more lab work in the class than the regular sections, but it was not weighted more heavily in our GPA.  There were classes that college-bound students took, like physics, advanced math (some calculus and trig), and writing and research (a substitute for senior year British Lit).  In retrospect I received a good, solid high school education that prepared me well for a college education; I think my education was much better than that of many students I see today who finish high school with a number of AP and dual credit classes.  

[Arcadia]

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/dominican-college-set-to-absorb-students-from-holy-names-university-as-it-shuts-its-doors/
“Some students from Holy Names University in Oakland will transfer to Dominican University later this year after the school closes in May.

… HNU's Board of Trustees announced it would end its athletic programs last November and then less than a month later decided to close the entire university because of financial challenges. In a letter to the community, the school's leadership explained that the university was struggling because of rising operational costs, declining enrollment, and an increased need for tuition discounts and institutional financial aid.  

….  

The Chronicle of Higher Education reported in March that HNU was one of three small private colleges closing this year with similar trends leading to that announcement. Dropping enrollment despite a high acceptance rate and revenue highly dependent on tuition and fees were all cited by the publication. 

Nicola Pitchford is the president of Dominican and said the issue of declining enrollment has plagued many small private schools for years, well before the COVID-19 pandemic only aggravated the problem. But she believes that institutions like hers remain important to ensuring more people of various backgrounds receive a four-year degree. She also argues that the value of a traditional college education still holds value in society even as more people look to other pathways after high school. 

"There's also a place for smaller institutions that are less well known that tend to do a really personal job of looking out that no student falls between the cracks," Pitchford told KPIX. "A degree can give you the skills not just to get a job but then to invent your next job and to make the argument for your next job." 

Final transfer numbers for the year are not available yet as Dominican offers rolling admission but as of early April, 180 undergraduate and graduate students from HNU are transferring while others continue to tour their campus. Pitchford agrees with Garrison about students looking into the health of a school they may attend, including both their enrollment history and current financial status. Garrison says that the appeal of having a sense of community with small class sizes and getting to know your professors is still relevant.”

[silver]

I've seen articles about various schools cutting degree programs. That's not as drastic as shutting down completely, but I don't want my kids to be that situation, either. What would be the best way to make sure that a degree program is not in danger of being cut during your time in it?

[Bootsie]

3 minutes ago, silver said:

I've seen articles about various schools cutting degree programs. That's not as drastic as shutting down completely, but I don't want my kids to be that situation, either. What would be the best way to make sure that a degree program is not in danger of being cut during your time in it?

Even if a particular major is not going to be offered at a school in the future, students who are currently in that major are generally able to complete their degree program.  Sometimes students are encouraged to move to a similar major (something like from Real Estate Finance and Management to Finance with a Real Estate Concentration) as a school phases out a major in favor of an updated curriculum. 

The only time I would be concerned is if the program currently has few students enrolled in it and depends upon one or two faculty members to offer the particular classes for the program; then the concern is if those faculty members leave, the program will not survive. 

[teachermom2834]

43 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Even if a particular major is not going to be offered at a school in the future, students who are currently in that major are generally able to complete their degree program.  Sometimes students are encouraged to move to a similar major (something like from Real Estate Finance and Management to Finance with a Real Estate Concentration) as a school phases out a major in favor of an updated curriculum. 

The only time I would be concerned is if the program currently has few students enrolled in it and depends upon one or two faculty members to offer the particular classes for the program; then the concern is if those faculty members leave, the program will not survive. 

I actually saw a situation where a big program (education?) was being shut down at a major state university before the incoming class could start. So while students who were enrolled could continue, students who were planning to attend that college for that major were stuck scrambling in the spring with their plans disrupted. 
 

It’s an unusual situation, for sure but one reason I always make my kids have a backup plan. Even if you know for sure where you want to go early senior year really unpredictable things can happen and it can be good to know what you would do. My kids always had applications in at regional schools they could enroll in pretty last minute. Over the years I’ve seen some unpredictable things come up that required a change of plans last minute and this is one of those. 
 

I am not sure but I feel there was such an uproar about this particular program being shut down it ended up being saved, by the way. 

[Eos]

More about this, with an interesting twist about the financials of rural colleges.

https://wapo.st/3p1niKU - gifted

Edited May 1, 2023 by Eos

[Sebastian (a lady)]

2 hours ago, Eos said:

More about this, with an interesting twist about the financials of rural colleges.

https://wapo.st/3p1niKU

Also available from Hechinger Report for those who don't have a WaPost subscription.

https://hechingerreport.org/the-shuttering-of-a-rural-university-reveals-a-surprising-source-of-its-financing/

[Heartstrings]

It’s so hard to find information on these smaller schools.  I’ve never even heard of Iowa Wesleyan.  Researching colleges and programs is daunting and honestly too difficult for most parents.    I’ve lurked here for years, used tools like College Raptor and College Confidential and was still overwhelmed.  Applying to random schools in Iowa to see which ones might offer good aid gets so expensive too, at $50 or $60 a pop. The average parents can’t dedicate themselves to learning about every college in the country, which ones secretly offer good merit aid, what the financial rating is.   I don’t know the answer at all, but more transparency and more easily available information would go a long way.  Needing to read 5 years worth of forums here, on Reddit and College Confidential and keeping extensive  notes can’t be the only way.  

[Shoeless]

15 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

It’s so hard to find information on these smaller schools.  I’ve never even heard of Iowa Wesleyan.  Researching colleges and programs is daunting and honestly too difficult for most parents.    I’ve lurked here for years, used tools like College Raptor and College Confidential and was still overwhelmed.  Applying to random schools in Iowa to see which ones might offer good aid gets so expensive too, at $50 or $60 a pop. The average parents can’t dedicate themselves to learning about every college in the country, which ones secretly offer good merit aid, what the financial rating is.   I don’t know the answer at all, but more transparency and more easily available information would go a long way.  Needing to read 5 years worth of forums here, on Reddit and College Confidential and keeping extensive  notes can’t be the only way.  

When I think about all the college choices out there, I feel like I'm standing in the bread aisle at the store.  So many choices with subtle differences. Do the differences matter? Will I have a better lunch experience if I choose whole grain or honey wheat? Will I regret not selecting the 7-grain bread? 

[Heartstrings]

18 minutes ago, Shoeless said:

When I think about all the college choices out there, I feel like I'm standing in the bread aisle at the store.  So many choices with subtle differences. Do the differences matter? Will I have a better lunch experience if I choose whole grain or honey wheat? Will I regret not selecting the 7-grain bread? 

Maybe the rye has a $100 bill in the bag but the Sarah Lee left you saddled with debt because you didn’t know.