Has anyone had COVID twice?

[Granny_Weatherwax]

8 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Bumping up! Anyone else?

@Granny_Weatherwax, how are you feeling? 

Brain fog is lifting a bit. Blood pressure is creeping up and I am certain that it was indeed related to COVID. My concern over getting COVID again is rising and I am quite happy I am not teaching tennis this indoor season. Children just don't wash their hands or cover coughs well enough and no one masks here anymore.

I have developed a strange series of bumps; began on my chin but are now on both hands and my right thigh. I have no idea what it is but do know it is not poison ivy as I've had that so many times I can recognize it immediately and request steroids.

I think you had asked which vaccine I had. It is Moderna.

[LucyStoner]

My son got it twice.  

In January, we all got omnicron.  We were all vaccinated and 3 of us had just had a booster shot. 

In July, older son got Covid from his girlfriend.  The rest of us did not get sick or test positive.  In late August my dad got Covid.  He got paxlovid right away (he’s 79).  No one else in the family tested positive.  In late September I got *really* sick…but it apparently wasn’t Covid.  

No one has lost their sense of smell or had any persistent health problems.  

[Guest]

My dh has it for the 2nd time. First was during Alpha or Delta, pre-vax availability. 
 

DD had it twice several months apart, despite vaccination. 

[Kassia]

My friend's son (11 years old) just got over his FOURTH time since last Christmas.  I don't want to say anything to my friend but it really scares me that he's had it so many times.  She and her husband only got it once from him (the first time).

[TCB]

I work with someone who has had it 3 times so far, during alpha, delta and omicron prevalence. I work with a number of people who have had it twice. I have extended family members who have had it twice. 

[Acadie]

Yes, dd20 has had Covid twice. 

First time, just Covid toes rash. No big deal for her, but weird to learn it's probably micro clots that settle by gravity in the lower extremities.

Second time, mild respiratory symptoms in the acute phase, followed by Long Covid symptoms of chest pain, shortness of breath, debilitating fatigue and brain fog. A distance runner and super high energy person, she's currently unable to run or manage a full course load. 

You don't want this, and you don't want it for your kids.

I know we all wish the pandemic were over but it's not. There's a misconception that there is a limited group of people at high risk for Covid complications, but that the vast majority of "normal healthy people" will be just fine.

Or that one or two mild cases of Covid mean every reinfection will be mild for that person. The data shows the opposite--this virus does enormous damage to multiple physiological systems and each reinfection poses additional risk of long term complications.

These complications include cardiac, pulmonary, neurologic and immune issues, and we're seeing increased incidence of hypertension, kidney disease, Type I diabetes, strokes and immune deficiency, including in children and teens.

I'm sorry. I know we all need a break from stress and difficult news.

I've just come to realize the longer we try to pretend Covid is no big deal, the more people are going to be harmed, including children who have their whole lives ahead of them.  Masking really helps, and it's a lot easier when people are in it together.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Acadie

[Acadie]

On 11/11/2022 at 11:24 PM, Not_a_Number said:

This does suggest that there isn't a really dire lingering short-term effect from COVID, I have to say. The fact that there aren't that many excess deaths after the wave itself is over is relatively encouraging. 

Have you looked at increased deaths from other causes like strokes, cardiac issues, pulmonary emboli, cancer etc? 

[MamaSprout]

I had it twice in 6 weeks- July and September. I was vaccinated but not boosted.

I probably would not have known if I hadn't tested due to immune compromised family. I was only tired for a couple hours each time.

Instead of losing taste and smell, I got... more.

My formerly annoying-but-take-a-benedryl-and-get-on-with-it allergies bloomed into something that looks a lot like LTP Syndrome (allergic to most plant based foods). I carry an epi-pen and have an appointment with an allergist in January. I'm hoping it will fade like others' taste and smell issues.

Edited November 15, 2022 by MamaSprout

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Or that one or two mild cases of Covid mean every reinfection will be mild for that person. The data shows the opposite--this virus does enormous damage to multiple physiological systems and each reinfection poses additional risk of long term complications.

Do you have link(s) to this information? 
 

51 minutes ago, Acadie said:

I've just come to realize the longer we try to pretend Covid is no big deal, the more people are going to be harmed, including children who have their whole lives ahead of them.  Masking really helps, and it's a lot easier when people are in it together.

*Is it* pretending though, at this point? I’m curious about this due to what I observe around me (with the caveat that most of those I am observing are vaccinated). In the earlier iterations, pre-vax, I did know several people who were seriously affected, and some who died, from Covid; these were not all sickly old people. However, *now* my feeling is - if I’m honest - it’s not a big deal for most “normal healthy people”. February (during Omicron surge here) was the last time I knew people dying or having severe illness around me. (And those were ALL not vaccinated.) Everybody else who has gotten Covid around me has a “bad cold” version at worst and no lasting effects. Moreso the younger the person, as with most illnesses. 
 

I would be interested to know if my perception is verifiably, totally wrong. 
 

 

[TCB]

42 minutes ago, Quill said:

*Is it* pretending though, at this point? I’m curious about this due to what I observe around me (with the caveat that most of those I am observing are vaccinated). In the earlier iterations, pre-vax, I did know several people who were seriously affected, and some who died, from Covid; these were not all sickly old people. However, *now* my feeling is - if I’m honest - it’s not a big deal for most “normal healthy people”. February (during Omicron surge here) was the last time I knew people dying or having severe illness around me. (And those were ALL not vaccinated.) Everybody else who has gotten Covid around me has a “bad cold” version at worst and no lasting effects. Moreso the younger the person, as with most illnesses. 
 

I would be interested to know if my perception is verifiably, totally wrong. 
 

 

I think this is the big question, and for me there are not sufficient answers, so I continue to be careful and try to avoid getting Covid. Information I have seen recently makes it seem that there are quite possibly some long term health issues associated with even quite mild Covid infections. I want to know more before I let down my guard. Also, as a woman in my 50s I am in the higher risk group for long Covid. I definitely don’t want that because I do not get any paid sick time with my job, never mind the discomfort of having the symptoms.

I have looked after several, youngish, people who have had quite serious heart issues some time after getting Covid. I don’t think it’s yet possible to say for sure that the two are linked, but I want to know more before deciding there isn’t increased risk. I know quite a number of people who have been left with annoying symptoms since having Covid, and I would like there to be more information about that too.

Learning more about long term affects of other viruses recently, also makes me continue to be cautious about Covid.

I think it is really early days with this virus and there is a lot we don’t know yet. 

[MamaSprout]

I do have an IRL homeschool friend whose 9 year developed POTS after having Covid for first time last winter. Her doctor said that they are seeing more of this in kids shortly after having Covid. ETA- her dd was not vaccinated.

My hubby works with old folks. The ones who recover don't seem to have any lingering effects. All his oldsters are vaccinated.

Edited November 15, 2022 by MamaSprout

[Acadie]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

Do you have link(s) to this information? 
 

Reinfection associated with additional long term risk, 2-fold risk of death, 3-fold risk each of hospitalization, heart problems and blood clotting. Reinfection also increased risk of diabetes, kidney problems, and pulmonary, neurologic and mental health issues:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3

T cell exhaustion in mild cases (actual study linked in discussion below). 

https://www.lji.org/news-events/news/post/a-closer-look-at-t-cells-reveals-big-differences-in-mild-vs-severe-covid-19-cases/

Immune dysfunction can persist at least 8 months after mild-to-moderate infection:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01113-x

Some have a tendency to say it's only older people, or unvaccinated people, or immune compromised people who are having issues. But because Covid can compromise immune function, uncontrolled reinfection can make anyone high risk. 

With the current surge of RSV/flu/Covid where children are getting sick earlier and with much greater severity, there's a debate about why this is happening. The two most prominent theories are "immunity debt" due to fewer respiratory infections in past years, and "immunity theft" from post-Covid immune suppression. It's my understanding that co-infections with multiple viral and bacterial pathogens are more common right now as well, which in the before times was a universal sign of possible immune dysfunction.

Canada's a bit ahead of us in terms of overhwhelmed ERs and pediatric ICUs, and i terms of their public debate about why this is happening and what to do.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9272293/immunity-debt-covid-19-misinformation/

Last fall, most American children had not had Covid. But this year, the majority of American children have already had Covid at least once. Personally I think this is why we're seeing so many severely ill kids this year, despite the fact that there was a big RSV surge in the US last winter.   

 

[KSera]

6 hours ago, Quill said:

*Is it* pretending though, at this point? I’m curious about this due to what I observe around me (with the caveat that most of those I am observing are vaccinated). In the earlier iterations, pre-vax, I did know several people who were seriously affected, and some who died, from Covid; these were not all sickly old people. However, *now* my feeling is - if I’m honest - it’s not a big deal for most “normal healthy people”. February (during Omicron surge here) was the last time I knew people dying or having severe illness around me. (And those were ALL not vaccinated.) Everybody else who has gotten Covid around me has a “bad cold” version at worst and no lasting effects. Moreso the younger the person, as with most illnesses. 
 

I would be interested to know if my perception is verifiably, totally wrong. 
 

 

I think one issue is that if long Covid or other after effects are affecting say 5-10% of the population—or even if it was just 1% of the population—people’s experience will be that most people they know aren’t having problems. But those are very high risks to be taking with something so serious and potentially completely life altering. People largely don’t seem to be interpreting even a 5% risk of something really bad as much of a risk. It seems they see only the 95% chance that it won’t happen and don’t realize just how many people will fail at that game (while meanwhile the majority will continue walking around saying, “Look, it’s fine. Me and my whole family are fine, see?”)

And that doesn’t even begins to get into some of the known consequences that may happen six months or a year down the line or other ones that we have no idea about that may be waiting 10, 20, 30 years down the line as we have seen with some other viruses. No one can truly say, “see, it’s fine” at this point because we won’t know until we know. It’s pretty clearly not “fine” on a population level, based just on what we already know, but I am very hopeful that what we’re already seeing will be the extent of it and there’s not even more that we just don’t know about yet.

 

[mathnerd]

4 hours ago, KSera said:

And that doesn’t even begins to get into some of the known consequences that may happen six months or a year down the line or other ones that we have no idea about that may be waiting 10, 20, 30 years down the line as we have seen with some other viruses. No one can truly say, “see, it’s fine” at this point because we won’t know until we know. It’s pretty clearly not “fine” on a population level, based just on what we already know, but I am very hopeful that what we’re already seeing will be the extent of it and there’s not even more that we just don’t know about yet.
 

My son's tutor, who is healthy and in his 50's, who masks all the time (but sometimes wears masks over just his mouth because it is too hot in his classroom) who is vaccinated and who had asymptomatic covid in the summer during the Omicron surge (a mandatory test caught it) suddenly got ill this week during lessons - confusion, dizziness etc. He was rushed to an ER where, fortunately, a doctor quickly diagnosed him with "Spontaneous Subdural Hematoma" and sent him to emergency surgery. Apparently this doctor has been seeing several cases of it happening recently and thinks that previous Covid could be the trigger (he speculates that perhaps this is one of the symptoms that Long-Covid presents as). So, as you said, we may have no idea about what will happen 6 months down the line.

Edited November 16, 2022 by mathnerd

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, KSera said:

think one issue is that if long Covid or other after effects are affecting say 5-10% of the population—or even if it was just 1% of the population—people’s experience will be that most people they know aren’t having problems.

That’s true, though I think about two things that affect my level of concern. First, I’m not opposed to caution. I still have (AFAIK) not gotten Covid and I do and have done the necessary things to make it less likely. My Covid + dh is quarantined in the basement as we speak and I do not go down there but for a few minutes, in a KN95 mask. So - it’s not that I don’t care about Covid at all now: I do still care. 
 

Secondly, though: I can’t give too much attention to bad medical things that *could* happen. I am a bre@st cancer survivor. My odds of recurrence are not huge but they’re not zero. We lost a boardie on here who was diagnosed just a couple months ahead of me. There’s no part of me that believes I can keep illness indefinitely at bay, no matter how careful I am. I am a statistical anomaly for bre@st cancer, yet I got it. I had no known risk factors, yet here we are. 
 

Im babbling now…what I’m trying to say is, sh!t happens. You can do all the right things and still get sick. You can use all the proper caution and still get Covid. You can be the picture of health and have a fatal heart attack one day while cleaning out the garage. If I put too much attention on all the dreadful things that *could* happen, I will lose my ever-lovin’ mind. So when I see stats like “only” 1% of people with Covid have a serious, deadly or lasting outcome, I think - honestly? That’s pretty good. My cancer odds are worse than that, even though they are still relatively low because I had one of the “better” types. So it is true I will only go so far with mitigation measures for COVID at this point. (For example, if I went to see a play and masks are not required, I won’t wear one.)  No, I don’t want to get it but I only have so much bandwidth To focus on it. 

[KSera]

7 minutes ago, Quill said:

So when I see stats like “only” 1% of people with Covid have a serious, deadly or lasting outcome, I think - honestly? That’s pretty good. My cancer odds are worse than that, even though they are still relatively low because I had one of the “better” types.

Yeah, I can see that. I think the issue is the effect that has on a population level, rather than particular circumstances like yours. I mean, there’d be no reason to give any of the vaccines we usually do if the logic people are applying to Covid was applied to all diseases. This applies more to people who say Covid isn’t a problem. It would be like people saying breast cancer isn’t a problem to worry about just because it’s not something we can eliminate from happening to people at this point.  
 

But, point taken for your specific scenario. I can see feeling like that in that circumstance (although my personality type would probably tend the other direction to being more cautious due to the cancer history, but I can certainly see other personalities going the other way).

[BronzeTurtle]

5 hours ago, Acadie said:

Reinfection associated with additional long term risk, 2-fold risk of death, 3-fold risk each of hospitalization, heart problems and blood clotting. Reinfection also increased risk of diabetes, kidney problems, and pulmonary, neurologic and mental health issues:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3

T cell exhaustion in mild cases (actual study linked in discussion below). 

https://www.lji.org/news-events/news/post/a-closer-look-at-t-cells-reveals-big-differences-in-mild-vs-severe-covid-19-cases/

Immune dysfunction can persist at least 8 months after mild-to-moderate infection:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01113-x

Some have a tendency to say it's only older people, or unvaccinated people, or immune compromised people who are having issues. But because Covid can compromise immune function, uncontrolled reinfection can make anyone high risk. 

With the current surge of RSV/flu/Covid where children are getting sick earlier and with much greater severity, there's a debate about why this is happening. The two most prominent theories are "immunity debt" due to fewer respiratory infections in past years, and "immunity theft" from post-Covid immune suppression. It's my understanding that co-infections with multiple viral and bacterial pathogens are more common right now as well, which in the before times was a universal sign of possible immune dysfunction.

Canada's a bit ahead of us in terms of overhwhelmed ERs and pediatric ICUs, and i terms of their public debate about why this is happening and what to do.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9272293/immunity-debt-covid-19-misinformation/

Last fall, most American children had not had Covid. But this year, the majority of American children have already had Covid at least once. Personally I think this is why we're seeing so many severely ill kids this year, despite the fact that there was a big RSV surge in the US last winter.   

 

Just wanted to point out that the first study you linked says: "Our analyses should not be interpreted as an assessment of severity of a second infection versus that of a first infection, nor should they be interpreted as an examination of the risks of adverse health outcomes after a second infection compared to risks incurred after a first infection. Our analyses do not provide a comparative assessment of the risks of reinfection with different variants or subvariants."

There was a discussion of it on the main covid thread. In short, you are not getting a complete picture doing a study of just health records (because you are limiting yourself to only severe cases making everything sound about a thousand times worse. it is good for headlines though).

I don't have time to go through the other links rn, just thought you might like to know the limitations of what the first study is speaking of.

[KSera]

Just now, BronzeTurtle said:

Just wanted to point out that the first study you linked says: "Our analyses should not be interpreted as an assessment of severity of a second infection versus that of a first infection, nor should they be interpreted as an examination of the risks of adverse health outcomes after a second infection compared to risks incurred after a first infection. Our analyses do not provide a comparative assessment of the risks of reinfection with different variants or subvariants."

There was a discussion of it on the main covid thread. In short, you are not getting a complete picture doing a study of just health records (because you are limiting yourself to only severe cases making everything sound about a thousand times worse. it is good for headlines though).

I don't have time to go through the other links rn, just thought you might like to know the limitations of what the first study is speaking of.

Coupled with other studies here and in other countries, the overall picture of the increased risks of many serious events or diseases after Covid infection is very concerning. 

[Not_a_Number]

I would really, really, really appreciate if this thread stayed more or less on topic and didn't become relitigation of the same studies. I want to read about people's experiences and having lots of discussion in between makes it harder. 

[Not_a_Number]

9 hours ago, Acadie said:

Have you looked at increased deaths from other causes like strokes, cardiac issues, pulmonary emboli, cancer etc? 

I'd prefer to keep stats discussions largely off this thread. PM me if you'd like to chat about it. 

[Not_a_Number]

14 hours ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

Brain fog is lifting a bit. Blood pressure is creeping up and I am certain that it was indeed related to COVID. My concern over getting COVID again is rising and I am quite happy I am not teaching tennis this indoor season. Children just don't wash their hands or cover coughs well enough and no one masks here anymore.

I have developed a strange series of bumps; began on my chin but are now on both hands and my right thigh. I have no idea what it is but do know it is not poison ivy as I've had that so many times I can recognize it immediately and request steroids.

I think you had asked which vaccine I had. It is Moderna.

Ugh. I'm really sorry. I hope this all resolves. 

Did you have a booster as well? 

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I would really, really, really appreciate if this thread stayed more or less on topic and didn't become relitigation of the same studies. I want to read about people's experiences and having lots of discussion in between makes it harder. 

Okay, MIL’s first infection in 2021 was followed by months of wheezing. 

Her second infection was during the Omicron wave. She got Paxlovid only because we advocated twice for it, after specialists refused to prescribe. She ended up hospitalized with multiple pulmonary emboli and almost died. 
 

Her third infection was 2 months later, after her doctors assured her she was extremely low risk for reinfection. When she did get reinfected, they promptly gave her Paxlovid a second time. This was a setback in terms of breathing but less so than infection #2. 
 

To me the take-homes of MIL’s experience and my college age daughter’s with  Long Covid are avoid infection and reinfection if you can. And if you can’t, push for Paxlovid if you’re at all eligible. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Acadie

[SoCal_Bear]

@Acadie ...I hear you. I am so sorry that your daughter is going through this. It is life altering and devastating.

Everyone else...

Healthy, active, and functional people are getting long Covid. Lots and lots of us. I had Paxlovid myself but I still got long Covid. The picture that you are high risk or older to be at risk of long Covid and have to have had severe illness is not the face of long Covid anymore. Mild and asymptomatic illness and younger. So many are women as well.

I am doing my level best to avoid reinfection, and my family still has not had Covid because I isolated right away. It's frankly hard and difficult to do life this way, but the price is way too high to lose your quality of life to not do simple things to mitigate your risk. I definitely do not want to lose the progress I have made in my fight to recover by retriggering this all over again.

I see so many who are in such chronic pain and suffering for years now that they wish Covid had killed them because their suffering is so awful. Just go spend some time reading on Survivor Corps on Facebook. They purposefully make that group public so that people see and understand what long Covid is like. I can't be on there myself regularly because it's too hard on me to be there and work on my own recovery.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by calbear

[Acadie]

Wishing you the best for your well-being and recovery, @calbear, and thank you for your support. Paxlovid isn’t a magic bullet for sure—25% reduced risk of LC, last I saw, which is something, but nowhere near enough. 
 

Masking and mitigating really suck, but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to losing physical and cognitive capabilities. 
 

Dd20 has been most helped by advice from folks in the ME/CFS community on pacing and rest. Their generosity, wealth of knowledge from personal experience and willingness to help others is really extraordinary.
 

It’s painful to realize that if we’d listened to people with ME/CFS about symptoms and prevalence, rather than dismissing their experience for decades, we’d have treatments for Long Covid now. 

[Acadie]

41 minutes ago, calbear said:

 Just go spend some time reading on Survivor Corps on Facebook. They purposefully make that group public so that people see and understand what long Covid is like. I can't be on there myself regularly because it's too hard on me to be there and work on my own recovery.

Dd has found the same, that she needs to calm her autonomic nervous system, cultivate positive habits and create community to support her recovery.
 

She visits some groups rarely or for specific questions, and others more frequently, depending on the vibe. So important to discern what genuinely supports our well-being. 

[Not_a_Number]

Please, everyone, I don't need to be convinced one way or another. I just want to hear stories. Trust me -- the stories are more convincing for me and everyone else if you aren't trying to tell us what to do. 

@KSera and @Harriet Vane -- if you're confused about why I don't want to keep arguing about statistics anymore, feel free to PM me. All I can say is that I'm not finding those conversations helpful, and I doubt you are, either. 

[Not_a_Number]

15 hours ago, Acadie said:

To me the take-homes of MIL’s experience and my college age daughter’s with  Long Covid are avoid infection and reinfection if you can. And if you can’t, push for Paxlovid if you’re at all eligible. 

I'm really sorry about your daughter. 

ETA: didn't see the earlier post! Will read now. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

On 11/15/2022 at 9:09 AM, Acadie said:

Second time, mild respiratory symptoms in the acute phase, followed by Long Covid symptoms of chest pain, shortness of breath, debilitating fatigue and brain fog. A distance runner and super high energy person, she's currently unable to run or manage a full course load. 

Which variant was this? 

[Janeway]

On 11/12/2022 at 3:26 PM, Not_a_Number said:

Oof. I’m sorry to hear it!! How old is she? Do you know what variant?

She got it early on, so the first variant. Then recently, so whatever is recent now.

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Janeway said:

She got it early on, so the first variant. Then recently, so whatever is recent now.

Thanks!!

[Janeway]

9 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Thanks!!

Also, now, my husband had it twice. First time, no symptoms at all, just found out because of routine testing. And second time, had symptoms for two days, no fever and barely a cough, just very tired.

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Which variant was this? 

April 2022. Maybe Omicron 2?

[BeachGal]

Cornell’s latest findings about root cause of long Covid aligns with Bruce Patterson’s. Patterson analyzed blood samples of long haulers and helped develop the Incelldx test to determine what is going on with an individual and offer treatments.

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2022/11/13/monocytes-real-problem-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/