Funerals…..does anyone else hate them?

[Clarita]

10 hours ago, TexasProud said:

That I can handle. It wasn't so much you as another poster who was appalled at the expense. Very judgmental.  I just don't want people to imply I wasted money and did it wrong.  I don't care what anyone else does. I just don't want to ever do anything wrong. EVER. So I need to know what I did was ok.

You did everything right. Maybe we just live in the wrong places, because for my dad's death intentionally doing next to nothing was also in the $5000 range. Just the cremation, cubby to put the ashes in and an urn (the "free" box from the cremation place was a cardboard box). No real service, the pastor offered to do a little put the ashes in the cubby time which was free.

We intentionally did nothing because my mom and dad do not share the same religion and as much as people say the funeral is for the living we believe we should still honor the dead at their funeral. 

[Faith-manor]

I am so sorry for your loss, It takes and TexasProud.  💓💓💓

Just so everyone can get an idea of the costs involved regionally, I am going to give some local pricing.

Cremation - $1499. This is direct cremation. No service, and the ashes returned to the family in a cheap, no frills container.

Direct burial without embalming, cheapest casket available, private graveside service with no meal/hall afterward - $7500. It does not include a gravesite nor a head stone/marker. This pricing is really hurting local funeral homes, and I think they are going to have to think about this because the recession/depression/inflation/housing/pandemic mess is really hurting families so if the family member did not prepay a funeral, and the deceased did not leave behind and estate that can pay, families are really having a hard time. I played the piano for a memorial service last week in which the family actually could not come up with money for cremation or burial. They chose not to take custody of the body, and the state will inter the deceased in a paper's grave. The memorial service was private, and held in a small chapel that only cost $250 to rent. They went to a local diner for lunch, about 20 people total.

We are rural so U of MI, CMU, etc. will not take body donations due to the cost of transportation now.

They crypt for anyone being buried is $2000 alone, opening and closing the grave $1500 or more depending on the cemetary. $1000 per gravesite for the township cemetary. Churches have started charging rent for the use of their facilities for funerals and memorial services for families who do not attend the church even if the deceased was a member. I assume this is just because the cost of utilities, winter heat here getting pretty crazy and predicted to get much worse, means they are cutting back on how much anything but the church and pastor's office is open during the week. The local Presbyterian church announced their plan for fall/winter/spring is keeping all of the zones except the church offices at 62° M-F, and then turning up the heat Saturday afternoon to get it up to 68° by Sunday morning. So even members have to pay to rent the facility for wedding and funerals in order to pay for heat for these events.

So though it seems to be just mind boggling to pay $10,000 for even a simple, simple funeral and burial, it is what families face now. No condemnation for sure! But that leaves everyone with relatives not leaving behind an estate or prepaid funeral big enough and cash flow positive enough to pay for it scrambling to decide what to do. I feel so badly for families these days. I also know that since funeral services have to be paid for at the time of service, but most life insurance policies have not paid out that quickly and estates just simply are not settled quickly, it usually means that someone in the family has to produce their own credit card with a high limit to pay for everything. Then they hope the executor of the estate reimburses them. In this situation, we have heard from several friends who have gone through this that the family member who is executor has often refused to accept that burden sticking a sibling, cousin, etc. with it, and then refused to reimburse that person because the deceased did not have their estate documents set up in such a way that it specifically outlined paying for the funeral/burial/cremation. Unfortunately, due to the costs of setting up wills and trusts with estate planners and lawyers a lot of local folks use online, download and print documents, have them notarized and filed, but unfortunately really do not know enough about what they are doing or how to plan properly. It becomes a real mess.

This discussion makes me realize even more how much Mark and I need to take the burden off our kids by making sure things are taken care of in an airtight manner. Our nephew is the executor of our estate as currently planned. He is really good at this stuff. But, we have decided that it might be too much pressure, and if something happened in the near future, he would face tremendous back lash from our elderly mothers for adhering to our plans because that is not "traditional". He has no attachment or relationship with my mother in law so he could easily weather that storm, however he is very close to my mom, and it would be a nightmare. So we have decided to switch to a non-family, non-friend, no connection to the mothers person whom we trust. 

It is all just so tough. I do wish there were more inexpensive options. This is just such a huge burden for families. So many people die without an estate with enough money/assets to reimburse the costs, and many families do not have credit cards with $10,000+ on them that they can afford to run up and then male payments on. Funeral luncheons themselves must be crazy expensive with how much food as increased.

[heartlikealion]

I don't think people like funerals, in general. 

I was once told a funeral is for the grieving family/friends. Like, it's about comforting/commiserating with the immediate family. So that's kind of how I look at the more these days. 

I'm not sure how much the funeral service fees are, but I thought the main fees were from the casket and flowers... which I would think you would have even if you didn't have a formal funeral. Or the cost of cremation. You'd still have that cost, right? 

[heartlikealion]

On 9/11/2022 at 6:14 PM, happi duck said:

I'm torn.  I've seen them be helpful and I've seen them be hurtful.

Hurtful: When my dad died my siblings took over and they ignored his wishes completely.  I will always be bothered by that.

Helpful:  When my second sister died I was her person so was the "hostess" of sorts and spoke to everyone.  I met so many people who loved my sister.  It was really helpful at a time of shocking loss.  I appreciate those who attended.

The rest fall between these extremes.

 

Agree. Sorry that happened with your dad's funeral. 

My devout Catholic grandma on my mom's side didn't get a Catholic funeral... and her spouse that was not Catholic/didn't attend any church got one. Neither of them would have asked for what they got. I thought it was so stupid. It bothered me. I don't get why it was done the way it was, I'm sure there was some justification... but it didn't make sense to me. 

[heartlikealion]

On 9/24/2022 at 5:41 PM, TexasProud said:

Honestly, I don't see how you can do one for under 5,000 anymore.  I mean, you have to do something with the body. Mom wanted to be cremated. It cost nearly 3,000 to do that. We didn't get any kind of urn or anything, just a "free" box. We spent 1,000 on flowers: just two sprays: one for kids and one for grandkids.  My step dad, spent another 500 on one. There were two other small arrangements that my mother in law and my sister-in law's family sent. It was perfect.  We paid the church 350 to use the small chapel and 250 for the small reception hall next to it. (Now if mom had been a member there, it would have been free)  We didn't decorate the reception hall and had no food. Well, we did have a tv that showed a video I made of her life and then a table with all of her fire department memorabilia/pictures. I paid 150 for the musician and 350 for the preacher.  It was a very simple service.  The fire department honor guard and the bagpiper wouldn't take payment.  

It is important for people to be able to say goodbye ( which is why on second thought we rented the fellowship hall. There was no visitation, so this was a time for the community to say things to my step-dad and to her children. Their house is way too small to accommodate the people.) It adds a sense of closure.  All they did for my uncle was a party at my cousin's house and it just didn't feel right. No closure.  But that is me. And yes, I am VERY frugal. We also drive 20 year old cars. Lived in the same house and paid it off MANY years ago. Our vacations of choice are camping. So yeah, I get it. But I don't think we "wasted" the money. I hate funerals, but they are necessary.

Adding up the costs you mentioned, it's still well under 10k. I wouldn't take that comment too much to heart. 

I was disgusted by the prices of the sprays when I met with the funeral director with my dad to discuss my mom's arrangements. Apparently the huge spray that laid on her casket was like $1000. I was like is this normal?! In the end my dad basically just said something along the lines of it costs what it costs. 

Once you're in the thick of it you just feel trapped. You do what you need to get it done. It's a time-sensitive situation. And an emotionally draining period of time. No one should beat themselves up over whatever choices they make. It sounds like it was a lovely service. 

[Faith-manor]

26 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I don't think people like funerals, in general. 

I was once told a funeral is for the grieving family/friends. Like, it's about comforting/commiserating with the immediate family. So that's kind of how I look at the more these days. 

I'm not sure how much the funeral service fees are, but I thought the main fees were from the casket and flowers... which I would think you would have even if you didn't have a formal funeral. Or the cost of cremation. You'd still have that cost, right? 

The main fees, if there is going to be a burial, are not the casket and flowers. The gravesite, crypt, opening and closing of the grave, transportation, and headstone often far outweigh the flowers and casket by a bunch. We spent $50 for one arrangement of flowers for my dad's funeral because so many folks send flowers, even employers and coworkers will send flowers. The casket was a low end one at less than $1000.

But the crypt, plus the grave site at $750, plus opening and closing the grave, plus transportation 4 miles to the cemetery was terribly expensive -in the the many thousands - and that did not include then the casket, embalming (my mom chose not to do a direct burial which would have saved money because one grandson in the military could not get home that fast), storage until the funeral, pastor's fee, church fees, to say nothing of the simple luncheon. We wanted to pare way back because she really could not afford to pay for all of this, but she wouldn't listen. Those prices have gone up a lot in the last five years. She spent $7500 five years ago, and judging by prices I have seen advertised, that would be $11,000-15,000 now. Cremation is $1500 at the crematorium closest to us, and does include the return of the ashes to the family in an inexpensive container.

The headstone, very simple, was also around $1000. I do think some regions might be cheaper due to competition. We are remote enough that there are only four funeral homes to service the entire county, and they have their own set territories and cemeteries they service so they do not compete with one another which of course means they can set very high prices, and people are at their mercy if they choose to do a traditional funeral.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Faith-manor

[heartlikealion]

2 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

The main fees, if there is going to be a burial, are not the casket and flowers. The gravesite, crypt, opening and closing of the grave, transportation, and headstone often far outweigh the flowers and casket by a bunch. We spent $50 for one arrangement of flowers for my dad's funeral because so many folks send flowers, even employers and coworkers will send flowers. The casket was a low end one at less than $1000.

But the crypt, plus the grave site at $750, plus opening and closing the grave, plus transportation 4 miles to the cemetery was terribly expensive -in the the many thousands - and that did not include then the casket, embalming (my mom chose not to do a direct burial which would have saved money because one grandson in the military could not get home that fast), storage until the funeral, pastor's fee, church fees, to say nothing of the simple luncheon. We wanted to pare way back because she really could not afford to pay for all of this, but she wouldn't listen. Those prices have gone up a lot in the last five years. She spent $7500 five years ago, and judging by prices I have seen advertised, that would be $11,000-15,000 now. Cremation is $1500 at the crematorium closest to us, and does include the return of the ashes to the family in an inexpensive container.

The headstone, very simple, was also around $1000. I do think some regions might be cheaper due to competition. We are remote enough that there are only four funeral homes to service the entire county, and they have their own set territories and cemeteries they service so they do not compete with one another which of course means they can set very high prices, and people are at their mercy if they choose to do a traditional funeral.

Oh yeah. Sorry. I wasn’t thinking. My point was to say even if the OP didn’t have a service she might be stuck with all these other fees. My dad was in the military so my mom was buried at a military base and they covered certain fees (I think plot and headstone). 

[Scarlett]

On 9/25/2022 at 6:16 AM, TexasProud said:

That I can handle. It wasn't so much you as another poster who was appalled at the expense. Very judgmental.  I just don't want people to imply I wasted money and did it wrong.  I don't care what anyone else does. I just don't want to ever do anything wrong. EVER. So I need to know what I did was ok.

That other poster was coming at the topic from her life experience. You have plenty of money so if you spent a lot on your moms funeral no one is judging you.  The other poster said she would rather go on a vacation than have $10k spent on her funeral.  You can go on many vacations a year and still pay for an expensive funeral.

I think you might be a little emotionally raw dear.  No one was judging  you.  
 

@Ottakee I am so sorry for the loss of your friend. 

[shawthorne44]

On 9/10/2022 at 7:37 PM, City Mouse said:

...When he asked her what he should do with her ashes, she responded “throw them in the nearest dumpster for all I care”. While I suspect that won’t happen, my own DH says he can picture his sister saying that and imagine it in her own voice even. 

 

I had the ashes discussion with DH.  Most places people would want their ashes dumped, they shouldn't be dumped there.   I love lakes but they shouldn't be scattered there.  Since I love our home, I told DH to put me in a cardboard box and bury me under the house.  

[shawthorne44]

Even though funerals are for the living, I do think that pre-planning is a gift from the deceased to the family.   I know when my grandparents died, that they had all that preplanned and paid for was a huge benefit to my parents.  

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, shawthorne44 said:

Even though funerals are for the living, I do think that pre-planning is a gift from the deceased to the family.   I know when my grandparents died, that they had all that preplanned and paid for was a huge benefit to my parents.  

This reminds me of my neighbors, who just lost their dd.  They wanted to bury their dd's ashes near the wife's parents and discovered that the parents had paid for plots right by them for both her and her DH.  Since their dd was cremated, they decided to use the two plots for the three of them and they'd all be cremated and placed there with her parents someday.  My neighbor said it felt like her parents were looking out for her from above and it was a big comfort to her.  ❤️ 

[shawthorne44]

We used to have a friend whose first ever funeral was for her daughter who only lived a few days.  She said having no clue what to expect made it sooooo much harder.   People were asking her questions and she didn't even know what the words meant.  She was an older teen when that happened.  Her parents hadn't taken her to funerals because they didn't see a reason to expose her to the sadness.   When we heard that we made sure to take DD along to funerals.   

I do think that there is a benefit to having a default formula for new situations, i.e. Weddings, First Child, Deaths.   It is new and without a formula peoples brains can lock-up with all the decisions.   So people can start with the formula and then deviate as they want.  


 

[Jaybee]

1 hour ago, shawthorne44 said:

We used to have a friend whose first ever funeral was for her daughter who only lived a few days.  She said having no clue what to expect made it sooooo much harder.   People were asking her questions and she didn't even know what the words meant.  She was an older teen when that happened.  Her parents hadn't taken her to funerals because they didn't see a reason to expose her to the sadness.   When we heard that we made sure to take DD along to funerals.   

I do think that there is a benefit to having a default formula for new situations, i.e. Weddings, First Child, Deaths.   It is new and without a formula peoples brains can lock-up with all the decisions.   So people can start with the formula and then deviate as they want.  


 

Yes, I later thought back on my childhood, where extended family members' funerals were my first exposures to death, and was thankful that my parents did not try to protect us from it. I would have bad dreams sometimes for a few nights afterwards, but the pattern of how things were done and what it was like was familiar to me before I lost anyone really close to me. And I even learned a lot about how grief works--the first anguish, the first time you "forget" about it for awhile and then feel guilty, the first days you feel okay again. Of course, that is not always possible and parents have to make those decisions to the best of their ability, depending on the circumstances and their child's personality. But I'm not sure it is a benefit to try to protect too much.

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, shawthorne44 said:

We used to have a friend whose first ever funeral was for her daughter who only lived a few days.  She said having no clue what to expect made it sooooo much harder.   People were asking her questions and she didn't even know what the words meant.  She was an older teen when that happened.  Her parents hadn't taken her to funerals because they didn't see a reason to expose her to the sadness.   When we heard that we made sure to take DD along to funerals.   

Absolutely nothing in the world prepares or can prepare you for a death and funeral for your child, parent or spouse. Nothing. No matter how many funeral events or exposure you've had with death, you will not understand what people are asking you and there are moments and periods of time when nothing makes sense, even things you totally know and understand before. the only benefit I think you can give yourself is to have at least one person around you who you trust to handle the stuff or to pre-plan the stuff (which who would really have that for their child). 

[City Mouse]

I like this idea. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/09/26/california-legalizes-human-composting-death/8083034001/?gnt-cfr=1

 

[TexasProud]

12 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Absolutely nothing in the world prepares or can prepare you for a death and funeral for your child, parent or spouse. Nothing. No matter how many funeral events or exposure you've had with death, you will not understand what people are asking you and there are moments and periods of time when nothing makes sense, even things you totally know and understand before. the only benefit I think you can give yourself is to have at least one person around you who you trust to handle the stuff or to pre-plan the stuff (which who would really have that for their child). 

See that is the really funny thing and a big difference between my sister and me. The funeral, actually any funeral is not a big deal to me. I sang at my granddads funeral. I spoke at my mom's.  My sister on the other hand, could barely speak. So many things started her crying that week as we went through things. I was the one planning everything because I was unemotional.  At funeral (or Sunday services) it is like a switch turns on and it is time to perform. I am a person playing a part.  

Now a sad movie like Hatchi, I will bawl like a baby and my kids all tease me. But I do not cry in public and I don't have any trouble thinking. 

[heartlikealion]

I don't think the two thoughts are mutually exclusive. I think yes, it's possible having gone to other funerals might make a funeral experience less daunting. But, no, I don't think you are ever really prepared for certain deaths. Not every funeral I've attended has been for a relative (a few parishioners and a wake for a former classmate). Obviously those are not the same level of intensity. 

Edited to add: regarding the somber funerals mentioned earlier in this thread -- the Catholic funerals I have attended were all somber and they took place in California and Mississippi. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by heartlikealion

[Dmmetler]

I played at my grandmother's funeral at her request, and have refused ever since to do anything other than sit and be quietly miserable. Because I can do it-I can push myself into professional mode, but it leads to an even bigger collapse later. It's better for me to be emotional when it's the time and place for it than, say, a week later at the grocery store.