Elementary math for a tired mom - Update in last post

[knitgrl]

A recent diagnosis of mine is going to require me to probably receive treatments that will probably make me unable to get through next year as I've planned. Folks advised me on the Chat Board to outsource Math and English for dd12 and keep plans really loose for ds8 and dd7, which makes sense. Math is something we insist on everyday.

I purchased Math Mammoth 1-7 years ago when there was a good deal on it, and have been using that with ds. Dd has been using MEP. Should I focus on trying to get them to move forward with MM this year, or just pick out some random workbooks that review things they just need extra practice on, most notably subtraction and multiplication for both of them?

Edited April 13, 2023 by knitgrl

[Slache]

I would do MM, requesting DS12's help when necessary.

[Ting Tang]

44 minutes ago, knitgrl said:

A recent diagnosis of mine is going to require me to probably receive treatments that will probably make me unable to get through next year as I've planned. Folks advised me on the Chat Board to outsource Math and English for dd12 and keep plans really loose for ds8 and dd7, which makes sense. Math is something we insist on everyday.

I purchased Math Mammoth 1-7 years ago when there was a good deal on it, and have been using that with ds. Dd has been using MEP. Should I focus on trying to get them to move forward with MM this year, or just pick out some random workbooks that review things they just need extra practice on, most notably subtraction and multiplication for both of them?

This is not math mammoth, but I recently discovered esingaporemath.com.  For $129, you get access to the levels through grade 5.  The videos are animated, not a teacher standing in front of a whiteboard.  That might be a pro or a con for you, but it intrigued me.  They could do it entirely online.  I ended up buying textbook curriculum, but I may use it as a supplement.  I think it could work well for your kids' ages, and you can certainly return to MM later.  

[smfmommy]

CTC math is online and independent.  Could be a good way to outsource without having to worry about class times or homework.

 

[PeterPan]

If you're not feeling well, is an adult (friend, grandma, whomever) going to come over? If so, that person or the 12 yo could supervise the math. Math for 7 and 8 yos is not that hard. 

I don't think it's necessary to change to something that is treading water, because it would be simple for anyone to step in and keep it going forward. However if MM has not been an *excellent* fit for the 7 and 8 yos, I would get something that is. CLE, Horizons, BJU, anything where they can just open it up and do two pages and boom it's good enough, kwim? 

 

[knitgrl]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

If you're not feeling well, is an adult (friend, grandma, whomever) going to come over? If so, that person or the 12 yo could supervise the math. Math for 7 and 8 yos is not that hard. 

I don't think it's necessary to change to something that is treading water, because it would be simple for anyone to step in and keep it going forward. However if MM has not been an *excellent* fit for the 7 and 8 yos, I would get something that is. CLE, Horizons, BJU, anything where they can just open it up and do two pages and boom it's good enough, kwim? 

 

MM has not been an *excellent* fit for 8yo. CLE has a really simple layout, and it doesn't look like it has too much writing, which seems like a better fit for him. Dd7 might like Horizons because it is pretty and she loves worksheets. Looking at BJU for the first time is a little overwhelming - it sure has a lot of components.

[Ellie]

14 hours ago, knitgrl said:

 Should I focus on trying to get them to move forward with MM this year, or just pick out some random workbooks that review things they just need extra practice on, most notably subtraction and multiplication for both of them?

This right here.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Ellie

[PeterPan]

9 hours ago, knitgrl said:

Looking at BJU for the first time is a little overwhelming - it sure has a lot of components.

If you use all them, sure. If you just get the student worktext (which isn't ideal, but which people do), then it would be easy enough. The instruction and review components are in the ™, so that's what you're missing by doing just the worktext. However it's colorful and straightforward enough at those levels.

I have my ds using this workbook this year, if you wanted something really different. https://www.creativeteaching.com/products/power-practice-math-logic-and-word-problems-gr-3-4  They have workbooks that are straight multiplication, etc., but you might find something focusing on word problems more *interesting* for the kids. Evan Moor has some Daily Math Word Problems workbooks that are good. https://www.amazon.com/Daily-Word-Problems-Grade-4/dp/1629388580/ref=pd_lpo_3?pd_rd_i=1629388580&psc=1   

https://www.teachercreated.com/products/challenging-graph-art-0096  This graphing art is something fun I used with my ds around that age. 

https://www.teachercreated.com/products/fractions-grade-3-8601  They also have topic specific workbooks. 

https://www.teachercreated.com/products/math-brain-teasers-grade-3-3753  or maybe your kids like a challenge?

If you're wanting eclectic, put together a mix like that and you'll have a daily packet. That's a lot of what I do with my ds. I've used most of those products I listed and those are my favorite publishers for math workbooks. I've also used Tang Math, which is fine. I stick with the major publishers when I want dependable. 

Carson Dellosa

Spectrum

Teacher Created Materials

Teacher Created Resources

Evan Moor

Creative Teaching Press

If you go in an education store, usually they'll have books like that. You could see a bunch in person and see what strikes you. Your kids are young enough, they could even do one of the fun themed math workbooks for a year. https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Workbook-Grade-Workbooks/dp/0761189351/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=star+wars+math+grade+3&qid=1654343313&sprefix=star+wars+math+%2Caps%2C85&sr=8-1  They even have the Star Wars themed workbooks for LA and writing... What a great time to be a kid! 😄 

They're young and you're not going to mess this up. It will all work out, honest. 🙂

[JazzyMom]

For elementary math, I found success using a workbook program.  I don’t buy the teacher’s manuals, just the student workbook and the answer key.

Each kid did one page front and back per day, and I corrected it daily, explaining anything they may not have understood.

As a mom of 8, there was morning sickness, pregnancy, postpartum, nursing issues, etc.  My husband traveled a lot, and I was also responsible for an aging relative.  This was a simple way to keep everyone on track without requiring much time or brain power from me.

We used A Beka, which doesn’t seem to get a lot of love.  But my kids liked the workbooks, and my oldest 3 kids are very strong math students.  High math scores (above 90%) on standardized tests and SAT.  Oldest dd took precal, calc 1 and cal 2 at the community college during high school and made A’s.  My other kids are still young.

Anyway, this plan worked fine for our goals and was low stress and sustainable.

[Ellie]

1 hour ago, JazzyMom said:

We used A Beka, which doesn’t seem to get a lot of love. 

And yet I'm sure that ABeka is one of the most-used publishers among Christian homeschoolers. It's colorful, and it has every.single.thing all in one place, and Christian schools use it so it must be good, you know, and many baby hsers have a friend whose mother's sister's neighbor's aunt teaches in a Christian school and SHE says it's the "best," so the baby hsers take the plunge. 🙂

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, JazzyMom said:

We used A Beka, which doesn’t seem to get a lot of love.

I think the early editions of WTM recommended some Abeka stuff and certainly it has been used by people on the boards over the years. I think like Ellie is saying sometimes it's so ubiquitous we just don't see it. LOTS of people use Abeka, mercy. If op likes the looks of the samples, she should go for it! 

Also, if she wants to search for old board posts that mention it, she could do a google site search. So into her browser bar she could type "abeka math site:welltrainedmind.com" and see what pops up.

https://www.google.com/search?q=abeka+math+site%3Awelltrainedmind.com&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS898US900&oq=abeka+math+site%3Awelltrainedmind.com&aqs=chrome..69i57.5559j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8  

I get almost 1200 hits with that search, so definitely some usage going on. 😄 

[JazzyMom]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to push any buttons.  I didn’t mean that no one uses A Beka.  I just meant that A Beka math isn’t one of the programs I see suggested here often.  Maybe that’s just my perception, and if so, that’s fine.  I don’t have any negative feelings about it.  🙂 
 

Anyway, I was not even suggesting the OP use A Beka, even though it has worked well for us.  My general point was that a no frills, open and go, workbook style math program has served my family well without feeling too burdensome or time-consuming.

[knitgrl]

24 minutes ago, JazzyMom said:

Sorry, I didn’t mean to push any buttons.  I didn’t mean that no one uses A Beka.  I just meant that A Beka math isn’t one of the programs I see suggested here often.  Maybe that’s just my perception, and if so, that’s fine.  I don’t have any negative feelings about it.  🙂 
 

Anyway, I was not even suggesting the OP use A Beka, even though it has worked well for us.  My general point was that a no frills, open and go, workbook style math program has served my family well without feeling too burdensome or time-consuming.

It's funny you mentioned Abeka; I had vaguely wondered about it, and also wondered why nobody mentions it, because it certainly is a thing. I've been to conferences and browsed their stuff. If life were normal, it would not be my cup of tea. Life is no longer normal, and I find myself looking at flavors of tea I would never have previously considered. My life seems to be a lot like that these days....

[Green Bean]

TGTB Simply Good & Beautiful Math is easy to get done. Levels 4-6 (6 coming this summer) are vids. The lower levels are very short lessons.

https://www.goodandbeautiful.com/pre-k-8-curriculum/math/

TT might not be your ideal, but it is independant and easy to do.

https://www.teachingtextbooks.com/

The BJU dlo vids are great! The teacher does the teaching. The kid follows along. The texts are NOT enough on their own to teach. They are meant to reinforce the teaching lessons. The TM has LOADS more stuff in them than just the lesson. Skipping it is skipping half the program. We found the Reviews book important for keeping old concepts fresh. We skipped the extra lesson practice in there.

CLE has LOADS of writing as you move up. 400 is a heavy transition year. Many of us have bailed at that point. (I've used 100-600 of CLE with various children.) The format is fantastic. Like Saxon, its strength is doing all the problems. Its doom is, unlike Saxon, the LightUnits do not tell the child where a concept was first introduced if they need to look it up. I haven't seen the TM in so long that I don't remember if that info is in it or not. The new textbooks for 400 on up do have that subscript like Saxon.

How about Kumon wkbks to focus on their weak areas? Easy to obtain and use.

 

[knitgrl]

11 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

TGTB Simply Good & Beautiful Math is easy to get done. Levels 4-6 (6 coming this summer) are vids. The lower levels are very short lessons.

https://www.goodandbeautiful.com/pre-k-8-curriculum/math/

TT might not be your ideal, but it is independant and easy to do.

https://www.teachingtextbooks.com/

The BJU dlo vids are great! The teacher does the teaching. The kid follows along. The texts are NOT enough on their own to teach. They are meant to reinforce the teaching lessons. The TM has LOADS more stuff in them than just the lesson. Skipping it is skipping half the program. We found the Reviews book important for keeping old concepts fresh. We skipped the extra lesson practice in there.

CLE has LOADS of writing as you move up. 400 is a heavy transition year. Many of us have bailed at that point. (I've used 100-600 of CLE with various children.) The format is fantastic. Like Saxon, its strength is doing all the problems. Its doom is, unlike Saxon, the LightUnits do not tell the child where a concept was first introduced if they need to look it up. I haven't seen the TM in so long that I don't remember if that info is in it or not. The new textbooks for 400 on up do have that subscript like Saxon.

How about Kumon wkbks to focus on their weak areas? Easy to obtain and use.

 

Wow! Thank you for the in-depth analysis! You are an awesome person. I guess I will need to do some more looking.

[JazzyMom]

1 hour ago, knitgrl said:

It's funny you mentioned Abeka; I had vaguely wondered about it, and also wondered why nobody mentions it, because it certainly is a thing. I've been to conferences and browsed their stuff. If life were normal, it would not be my cup of tea. Life is no longer normal, and I find myself looking at flavors of tea I would never have previously considered. My life seems to be a lot like that these days....

Yes, it’s very different than what you’ve used previously, but when you said tired mom, I wanted to mention it because I was so often worn out and overwhelmed, and math was one of the things that got done without requiring much from me.

My kids would do one page front and back each day.  For new concepts, they would read the blurb at the top of the page and do their best.  They liked to get up in the morning and get it done without waiting for me.  Once a day, I would call them over one by one, check their work against the answer key, and explain anything they missed.  There’s a lot of practice and built in review, which I think helped build their confidence, so they did great with higher math.

I know there are better methods out there, and I’ve considered switching, but now I’m at a point where if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, lol.

You will figure out what’s right for your family.  I’m sorry you are going through such tough times.

[knitgrl]

Thank you so much to everybody who has chimed in. Based on what everybody has said here, and what I can find from samples, I think I may go with Abeka 3 for ds and Horizons 3 for dd. Dd has just about completed MEP Yr 2, which is more or less equivalent to 3rd grade for most other curriculum. So, in essence, they'll just be repeating the same math they've done this year. I took a look at Abeka 4, and can't imagine ds figuring out adding mixed fractions and multiplying double digits on his own. Not knowing how everything is going to play out, I'm trying to prepare for the worst case scenario. Hopefully, I will be able to teach more often than not. At the very least, they will have an extra year to solidify basic operations, which might benefit them in the long run.

[birchbark]

On 6/5/2022 at 8:40 PM, knitgrl said:

At the very least, they will have an extra year to solidify basic operations, which might benefit them in the long run.

I was going to suggest this very thing. You could totally skip any formal programs and just work on math facts for the year. We like Math Trekkers for this. They are cheap, fun, and self-teaching. But it could be as basic as a set of flashcards.

[Ting Tang]

We used Abeka math, and it's quite procedural and spiral. I've used K5-3rd now, and it is a good program for those grades! I moved away from it for my older ones because we'd be using the older, unrevised versions (thanks to Covid, they got behind on the updates).  And honestly, I just didn't like the older look.  We'd probably still be on that path if we were able to continue using revised versions.  We switched to Master Books, and I wouldn't recommend that for you, given the curriculums you mentioned. Now we are going to try Singapore Dimensions (grades 2 & 4) and Singapore Primary Standards (grade 6).  The kinder kid will do Abeka.  

[knitgrl]

I thought I would come back and post what we've actually done. We stuck with MEP, but just did the sheets. As in, I would sit with each of them and we would work through half to two thirds of a sheet and call it good. There were some days math didn't happen at all. There were a handful of days where I was so tired I could only do 10-15 minutes with each kid. But most days, we have done at least one sheet, sometimes two. Right now, we are only 5 weeks "behind." And now that the worst is over, we can make up most of it pretty easily. The last few weeks of the curriculum are review and puzzles anyway. And the first 6 weeks of next year will be review. I know you should do the full lessons to get the most out of MEP, but given the circumstances, good enough is good enough.

I do appreciate the time put in to make all the suggestions you all gave. It was fun to look at and consider other alternatives, and honestly, it was a welcome distraction to think about instead of my diagnosis.

[wisdomandtreasures]

On 6/4/2022 at 11:01 AM, Green Bean said:

Its doom is, unlike Saxon, the LightUnits do not tell the child where a concept was first introduced if they need to look it up.

The teacher manual has this listed at the beginning of each workbook division and in the index. 🙂

[countrymum]

Thanks for the update @knitgrl

I've found sticking to what we've been using is easiest for me too. I was pregnant with baby 6 and tired and a bit busy with a preschooler and 2 in elementary and a dyslexic 6th grader.... I tried switching math and some other stuff to more independent....we switched back to RightStart and AAS. Both are "time consuming" but we're overall easier and faster than my more independent switches:) funny right;)

Edited April 13, 2023 by countrymum

[Malam]

On 6/5/2022 at 9:40 PM, knitgrl said:

MEP Yr 2, which is more or less equivalent to 3rd grade for most other curriculum

I'm a little curious about this - I thought MEP corresponded to the UK system, whose years are one ahead of US grades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2 (see the England subsection)

[smfmommy]

4 hours ago, Malam said:

I'm a little curious about this - I thought MEP corresponded to the UK system, whose years are one ahead of US grades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2 (see the England subsection)

I know people say this, but I don't see it.  Years 7, 8, 9 correspond very well to middle school and Algebra.  I guess if you want to do Algebra in 8th grade then yes, you need to speed things up, but I would condense years 7&8 into one rather than trying to tackle year 2 with a 6 year old.  (If I remember right, year 2 or maybe 3 really ramps up in difficulty.)  Also, if I remember right, year 6 covers almost the same ground as year 7 so you could skip or just review it and move into year 8.  I only did years 7-9 with a couple of my kids.  So the other observations are based on conversations on the MEP email list.

 

[knitgrl]

Dd13 is just finished Yr7 and is starting Yr8. She finds them ridiculously easy. There was a unit on telling time. She really enjoyed MEP through Yr6, but we are both kind of scratching our heads about Yr7. It almost seems to go backwards. I'm sure there is a purpose for it, but I've missed it. Sometime, somewhere, somebody's said if a kid gets through Yr6 of MEP, they are totally ready for Algebra. It might have been on the old MEP Yahoo group. Right now, dd is seeing my old algebra teacher for tutoring, so she can have something a little more challenging to do, since I wasn't up to doing a normal year.

[AnneGG]

Glad to see your update! I hope you’re feeling better. ❤️ 

[Malam]

8 hours ago, knitgrl said:

somebody's said if a kid gets through Yr6 of MEP, they are totally ready for Algebra

 

9 hours ago, smfmommy said:

year 6 covers almost the same ground as year 7 so you could skip or just review it and move into year 8

Interesting, thanks for sharing!

[Xahm]

MEP1 has been pretty perfect for my bright 4 year olds, though we have to scribe for them since the boxes are tiny. We have only used through level 3 (and that not for all of mine) before switching to Beast Academy, so I don't know how the older levels pan out. I've really enjoyed level 1 multiple times.

[Ellie]

On 6/4/2022 at 11:33 AM, JazzyMom said:

Sorry, I didn’t mean to push any buttons.  I didn’t mean that no one uses A Beka.  I just meant that A Beka math isn’t one of the programs I see suggested here often.  Maybe that’s just my perception, and if so, that’s fine.  I don’t have any negative feelings about it.  🙂

Maybe it's that people *here* tend to do more research and so have found many alternatives to ABeka.

[Zoo Keeper]

12 hours ago, knitgrl said:

Dd13 is just finished Yr7 and is starting Yr8. She finds them ridiculously easy. There was a unit on telling time. She really enjoyed MEP through Yr6, but we are both kind of scratching our heads about Yr7. It almost seems to go backwards. I'm sure there is a purpose for it, but I've missed it. Sometime, somewhere, somebody's said if a kid gets through Yr6 of MEP, they are totally ready for Algebra. It might have been on the old MEP Yahoo group. Right now, dd is seeing my old algebra teacher for tutoring, so she can have something a little more challenging to do, since I wasn't up to doing a normal year.

IIRC, Years 7 and 8 were originally intended for those who hadn't done years 1-6, as a sort of get them up to speed before upper level math. So a student who did very well in Years 1-6 can skip right over 7 and 8. 

[JazzyMom]

19 hours ago, Ellie said:

Maybe it's that people *here* tend to do more research and so have found many alternatives to ABeka.

That’s great. 😊

Glad you found a plan that worked, OP!

 

[Malam]

On 4/14/2023 at 9:42 AM, Zoo Keeper said:

IIRC, Years 7 and 8 were originally intended for those who hadn't done years 1-6, as a sort of get them up to speed before upper level math. So a student who did very well in Years 1-6 can skip right over 7 and 8. 

*Now* you tell her 😆

[stripe]

I didn’t use a lot of the middle school material, but it is absolutely a complete review of everything a student would need to know, so all the way back to simple addition and so forth. I skipped virtually all of that material. Only use it if there’s something that needs reviewing, or skip the first part of the chapters. You don’t just want to do every section in order. Take a look at the “suggested routes” for each semester. It shows standard, academic, and express routes. Typically the standard skips the harder material at the end of some chapters, and express skips the beginnings and adds in the ends. You will observe in year 8, they already note that money and time can be skipped by more advanced students. So don’t waste time reviewing one digital multiplication or anything else your child knows already.

As to whether a child should go from year 6 to algebra, if the algebra starts with the usual total review of everything, that could work, and similarly, the middle years of MEP provide a lot of review. But just like in the US, sometimes they need time to work through different topics again. Apparently a lot of American homeschoolers switch away from MEP after year 6 so there’s not much info online about people using them. Notice that years 1-6 are their Key Stage 1 and 2, years 7-9 are Key Stage 3, and the GCSE material is Key stage 4. I know the MEP site can be difficult with sooo much stuff, but they have a lot more material for the teacher than only the workbook pages such as the list of topics covered and the suggested routes.

I also would encourage you to find someone else who can work with your child rather than expecting a child to “self-teach” math. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by stripe

[Malam]

On 4/17/2023 at 11:31 AM, stripe said:

it is absolutely a complete review of everything a student would need to know, so all the way back to simple addition and so forth

Are you talking about 7-9 here?

[stripe]

On 4/18/2023 at 11:37 AM, Malam said:

Are you talking about 7-9 here?

Yes. Year 7 contains, for example, chapters on place value, +,-,×,÷ of decimals, fractions, telling time, decimals/fractions/percentages. Year 8 contains factoring of numbers, rounding and estimating (with a review of the four operations). Year 9 has a cursory review of this that they recommend only for the standard route, with more advanced coverage of fractions and percents being optional. However, even the GCSE material has basic content quickly “revised” at the start of the chapters such as the concept of a decimal and arithmetic with decimals, or how to plot points on a coordinate system, so if someone forgot how to do it, a very speedy review could come in handy, but in a homeschooling situation, I would skip it otherwise. I covered the GCSE material in one year with one of my children (the biggest fan of MEP), who then took Blue Tent’s Hon. PreCalc.

Don’t skip the scheme of work or suggested route documents if you want to know what of all that material they expect different levels of students to cover….because they don’t expect everyone to do everything.

Edited April 20, 2023 by stripe

[A.M.]

Stripe, thank you for sharing your experience about MEP. May I ask you more about this?

You mentioned that you covered the GCSE material in one year, and then started pre-calc. Would you say that the GCSE material covers most of algebra 1&2 and geometry? Or did you supplement to cover some of that?

Do you feel it is doable for most people to cover the GCSE materials in one year, or did pace have more to do with your student's abilities?

Also, how did you feel about the number of exercises included? Would you say it was a lot? Busywork? Just about right? If you could compare it to another programme you are familiar with that would be great - maybe Foerster or Saxon.

I'm trying to get a feel for this programme 🙂 Thanks for all the tips