The Path forward from CLE Christian Light Math after 700/800 levels.

[Ting Tang]

I'm still researching math curriculums for middle school level math.

I have read that it isn't always best to choose a math curriculum written by non-math people.  Math Mammoth looks pretty neat, but I do feel I might struggle teaching it because I was taught in a more traditional format.  I'd looked at AOPS, but I don't think we are there yet, nor may we ever be.

I've considered BJU.

Now I am looking at CLE.  It looks rigorous enough to me, and I do like the layout.  I see CLE offers algebra and then some other math courses from other publishers.  I'm curious if any of you who used CLE have students who progressed into Calculus eventually. 

 

 

[wendyroo]

I am a math person, and I did not find CLE rigorous at all. At times they used terminology that was downright incorrect - yes it made the problems easier to solve, but long-term it was teaching very bad habits of thought. The curriculum was very simplistic and algorithmic.

I ended up using CLE for a couple months for one of my kids who was having significant mental health challenges. Then, thankfully, we were able to move to something different.

I was going to post placement tests for CLE compared to Math Mammoth and/or Singapore to show how weak the CLE word problems were...but the CLE placement test for students going into 6th grade does not even have any word problems...compared to:

Math Mammoth:
A meal in a fancy restaurant costs three times as much as a meal in the cafeteria.
 The meal in the fancy restaurant costs $36. In a 5-day workweek, Mary ate lunch
 at the fancy restaurant once, and in the cafeteria the rest of the days.
 How much did she spend on lunch that week?

and Singapore:
The total cost of 4 lb of fish and 3 lb of meat is $42.40. If 1 lb of fish costs $3.25
more than 1 lb of meat, what is the cost of 1 lb of meat?

The CLE placement test, by comparison, is pure, simple arithmetic and geometry definitions, with no problem solving or critical thinking.

[KSera]

I think Math Mammoth is written in a way that it’s very easy to follow and teach unless perhaps the teacher struggles in math themself. I wouldn’t be considering CLE for a middle school student without a specific reason to do so. I used it with one of my kids with a math disability for a little while in early middle school, and it was the right choice for that kid at that time, but I can’t see any reason to start a kid in it for middle school math if they are fairly competent in math. It will cover much of the same content, but it’s really missing any conceptual framework, which I think can be more problematic in the long run.

[Insertcreativenamehere]

I really liked CLE but I moved away from it in 7th and 8th grades because my student was going to private high school and I wanted to get through pre-algebra in one year rather than two years, making it possible to do algebra at the school in 9th grade. As it turned out, he got through 1/2 of algebra in 8th grade using another curriculum and then we went back to CLE for a few weeks to work on more of the consumer math concepts as a change of pace. (FWIW: this student is doing very well in high school math and is naturally pretty mathy, and I do think CLE was a good fit for him up until middle school.) 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Insertcreativenamehere

[Ting Tang]

33 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

I am a math person, and I did not find CLE rigorous at all. At times they used terminology that was downright incorrect - yes it made the problems easier to solve, but long-term it was teaching very bad habits of thought. The curriculum was very simplistic and algorithmic.

I ended up using CLE for a couple months for one of my kids who was having significant mental health challenges. Then, thankfully, we were able to move to something different.

I was going to post placement tests for CLE compared to Math Mammoth and/or Singapore to show how weak the CLE word problems were...but the CLE placement test for students going into 6th grade does not even have any word problems...compared to:

Math Mammoth:
A meal in a fancy restaurant costs three times as much as a meal in the cafeteria.
 The meal in the fancy restaurant costs $36. In a 5-day workweek, Mary ate lunch
 at the fancy restaurant once, and in the cafeteria the rest of the days.
 How much did she spend on lunch that week?

and Singapore:
The total cost of 4 lb of fish and 3 lb of meat is $42.40. If 1 lb of fish costs $3.25
more than 1 lb of meat, what is the cost of 1 lb of meat?

The CLE placement test, by comparison, is pure, simple arithmetic and geometry definitions, with no problem solving or critical thinking.

Thank you so much!  I have looked a lot at Math Mammoth and Singapore.  I am worried that I was taught to do math in a very procedural way and that I wouldn't be very good at teaching those, even with good resources.  However, if incorrect terminology is being used, that would be concerning to me.  

20 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think Math Mammoth is written in a way that it’s very easy to follow and teach unless perhaps the teacher struggles in math themself. I wouldn’t be considering CLE for a middle school student without a specific reason to do so. I used it with one of my kids with a math disability for a little while in early middle school, and it was the right choice for that kid at that time, but I can’t see any reason to start a kid in it for middle school math if they are fairly competent in math. It will cover much of the same content, but it’s really missing any conceptual framework, which I think can be more problematic in the long run.

Thank you!  I don't struggle with math, but I was taught in a procedural way, so I worry about trying to teach my children using a more conceptual curriculum.  We decided we wouldn't purchase anything until the school year was over, but I do want to have a short list.  

11 minutes ago, Insertcreativenamehere said:

I really liked CLE but I moved away from it in 7th and 8th grades because my student was going to private high school and I wanted to get through pre-algebra in one year rather than two years, making it possible to do algebra at the school in 9th grade. As it turned out, he got through 1/2 of algebra in 8th grade using another curriculum and then we went back to CLE for a few weeks to work on more of the consumer math concepts as a change of pace. (FWIW: this student is doing very well in high school math and is naturally pretty mathy, and I do think CLE was a good fit for him up until middle school.) 

I'm glad you had a good experience with it!  I was liking how it looked, but reading these comments is helpful.  I have read good things and then not-so-good things about it.  

[Brittany1116]

I am not a math genius but loved CLE for elementary. My oldest went from CLE 600s to Saxon Algebra at 10. I'm not sure where it is lacking, but it served our purposes. I can see the lack of word problems mentioned above, but I think we cover enough of those types of things in life, gardening, sports stats, etc.

[maize]

Math Mammoth presents clear instruction written directly to the student. I think it is a very good choice if the parent teaching is not super confident in their conceptual understanding of math.

My kids prefer to mix topics more than Math Mammoth does if you proceed through the books from front to back. Every section in the book is fairly self-contained, however, so we mixed things up by assigning work from more than one section at a time--say, a page of multiplication and a page of elapsed time or geometry. I just cut off the corners of each page as we finished to make it easy to see what we still had to do in the worktext.

[Ting Tang]

13 minutes ago, Brittany1116 said:

I am not a math genius but loved CLE for elementary. My oldest went from CLE 600s to Saxon Algebra at 10. I'm not sure where it is lacking, but it served our purposes. I can see the lack of word problems mentioned above, but I think we cover enough of those types of things in life, gardening, sports stats, etc.

Oh wow, well, that is quite impressive! My son is 10, and he is currently using Master Books grade 6.  He may have some gaps, but level 700 looked pretty good to me.  I will take a deeper look before I purchase anything, but I felt this year was a bit of a mistake switching the Master Books. 

[Ting Tang]

Just now, maize said:

Math Mammoth presents clear instruction written directly to the student. I think it is a very good choice if the parent teaching is not super confident in their conceptual understanding of math.

My kids prefer to mix topics more than Math Mammoth does if you proceed through the books from front to back. Every section in the book is fairly self-contained, however, so we mixed things up by assigning work from more than one section at a time--say, a page of multiplication and a page of elapsed time or geometry. I just cut off the corners of each page as we finished to make it easy to see what we still had to do in the worktext.

Thank you!  Well, I admit my math mind doesn't quite work the way I think Math Mammoth wants it to, lol.  I also really prefer something with a teacher manual.  I can't even remember if it has one, though.

[Green Bean]

Anything you choose, be sure t0 have your child take the placement tests and start where they place even if you think it’s low. Every program is different. Singapore/conceptual especially. Back up if you need to. This isn’t a race. It is so much more important to have a solid foundation than to race ahead to some perceived “correct” grade.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Green Bean

[Ting Tang]

13 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

Anything you choose, be sure ti have your child take the placement tests and start where they place even if you think it’s low. Every program is different. Singapore/conceptual especially. Back up if you need to. This isn’t a race. It is so much more important to have a solid foundation than to race ahead to some perceived “correct” grade.

That's why we are going to wait until the school year is over before we decide what to do.  I guess I have this idea/vision that if he were to do something like Singapore or Math Mammoth, he'd be in a better situation in advancing in math, regardless of where he starts.  I don't really care for how they look or that I would have to shift my thinking to help.  I also don't know if he'd like that.  He really prefers to just get his work done.  But on the other hand, a program like CLE looks straightforward. I was reading a Cathy Duffy review that said it is solid but is not known for its conceptual thinking.  I wondered if I could add something into supplement.    

[maize]

You could try supplementing with Beast Academy. Even just reading through the (comic-style) guide books would provide some conceptual fodder.

[Momto6inIN]

I am not strong in math, and I learned so much doing Math Mammoth with my kids. I only learned algorithms with nothing about the concepts and going through MM I finally figured out the "why" and suddenly math  made so much more sense. Each lesson is so incremental and builds on itself so well that it's really not hard to teach at all, even for someone like me who's not strong in math and even without a teacher's guide.

[Ting Tang]

11 hours ago, maize said:

You could try supplementing with Beast Academy. Even just reading through the (comic-style) guide books would provide some conceptual fodder.

Thank you! I have considered this, too!

[Ting Tang]

2 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

I am not strong in math, and I learned so much doing Math Mammoth with my kids. I only learned algorithms with nothing about the concepts and going through MM I finally figured out the "why" and suddenly math  made so much more sense. Each lesson is so incremental and builds on itself so well that it's really not hard to teach at all, even for someone like me who's not strong in math and even without a teacher's guide.

Thank you so much for sharing. I have looked at it, and it's definitely near the top of my list.  Master Books didn't come with a teacher guide, and I think that is why I am apprehensive about using it.  I like the "extras" that the guides usually provide vs. it being written to the student.  But I do think it is much stronger than Master Books. 

[nwahomeschoolmom]

I only did traditional math in school and took Algebra I in 8th and AP Calc as a junior in the 1990s.  I am choosing a similar path for my son and I don't think it will be an issue.  I know of another family that did Saxon all the way through and now public charter high school.  All of those kids are doing amazing and advanced in math.  The conceptual information is important but not all kids need to do it everyday.  Unless the AP Calculus test has changed over the years, I feel CLE is perfectly fine!   

(What I plan to do with my son is CLE through Level 6, then we are doing Rod & Staff 7, and then hoping to do BJU with videos, etc through Calculus. He is ahead in math so I have almost two years for "Pre-Algebra.")

Edited April 8, 2022 by nwahomeschoolmom

[Ting Tang]

17 minutes ago, nwahomeschoolmom said:

I only did traditional math in school and took Algebra I in 8th and AP Calc as a junior in the 1990s.  I am choosing a similar path for my son and I don't think it will be an issue.  I know of another family that did Saxon all the way through and now public charter high school.  All of those kids are doing amazing and advanced in math.  The conceptual information is important but not all kids need to do it everyday.  Unless the AP Calculus test has changed over the years, I feel CLE is perfectly fine!   

(What I plan to do with my son is CLE through Level 6, then we are doing Rod & Staff 7, and then hoping to do BJU with videos, etc through Calculus. He is ahead in math so I have almost two years for "Pre-Algebra.")

Thank you so much for sharing!  I have read about families successfully using Saxon all the way through, and I understand CLE is similar.  I like the idea of the unit workbooks.  BJU is also at the top of my list because it has those teacher resources as well as the video learning.  🙂  I just don't want to fail him with what I choose for him. I do plan to have him take a look at our options---so far I have MM, BJU, and now CLE at the top of our list.

[seemesew]

I am not a strong math person and HATED MM. Yes, I understood what the lessons taught but there wasn't enough review of what was taught to help me or my kids retain it. Its also VERY dry and very boring. I was reading on her site recently and she mentions that if you need more hand holding as a parent she doesn't recommend using MM because its a worktext and doesn't have much parent instruction in it (which surprised me from what I've read here) but it also made total sense because that was my experience using.

I did like CLE better for that reason it had teacher books to help me and It reviews a lot. We didn't stick with it and moved to Saxon math. I like that there are ample teaching videos for Saxon at the higher levels and tons of help if I needed it. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by seemesew

[Ting Tang]

44 minutes ago, seemesew said:

I am not a strong math person and HATED MM. Yes, I understood what the lessons taught but there wasn't enough review of what was taught to help me or my kids retain it. Its also VERY dry and very boring. I was reading on her site recently and she mentions that if you need more hand holding as a parent she doesn't recommend using MM because its a worktext and doesn't have much parent instruction in it (which surprised me from what I've read here) but it also made total sense because that was my experience using.

I did like CLE better for that reason it had teacher books to help me and It reviews a lot. We didn't stick with it and moved to Saxon math. I like that there are ample teaching videos for Saxon at the higher levels and tons of help if I needed it. 

Thank you so much for sharing!  Reading through old threads here, some mentioned they thought that MM was "busy" in appearance.  I think that if I am going to be teaching with that, it could be problematic.  I try to stay ahead on math, and I did complete higher-level math courses, but I need help with the instruction and sometimes do need scripted lessons.  I've found with Master Books, some of the little instruction there is can get hidden or lost in the jumble.  I have checked on the videos for Nicole the Math lady for Saxon.  I think it could be an option for us at some point, too.  I think maybe I need to really take some time and see if I can find a good way to supplement CLE if we use it as our core.  And if incorrect terminology is ever used, hopefully I will be able to detect it.  

[Green Bean]

Ting- I have a MM 2016 cd you can have for free, if you pm me your address.

[Ting Tang]

6 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

Ting- I have a MM 2016 cd you can have for free, if you pm me your address.

Aww, that is really too kind of you!  I greatly appreciate it, but I would feel bad not paying for it.  If you really want to get rid of it, please allow me to at least pay for shipping.  Or you could always donate it?  I'll send you a message.

[BusyMom5]

You mentioned middle school, but not the grade.   MM covers to 7th, or PreAlgebra (last I checked).  Singapore also changes in middle school to Demensions or something like that.  CLE does have Algebra 1, I'm not sure if they offer Algebra 2.  I mention this, bc you may want to pick a program that will last more than a few years, and you mentioned Algebra and Calculus,  so I'm assuming Algebra is close. 

Saxon goes all the way through,  and my oldest used it, did very well on tests, is a National Merit Scholar, and took Calculus in college.  Its not the most rigorous,  but I do think it works. There are also lots of teacher support materials if you need them.

I have used a tiny bit of CLE- its good.  If you don't understand,  there isn't much teacher support.   Math Mammoth is another I've used off snd on, and still print a few units out every year.   My kids don't like it- pages are too cluttered and too many questions (even when I cut several out).  I do think their program is well done, and I'm sure I will use them to fill in gaps when necessary.  I do not like them as my main program.   

I would categorize Saxon and CLE together- they are both spiral programs that offer lots of problems to practice each day.  AoPS is not for every kid, but perfect for those that need it.  Singapore or Math in Focus or Math Mammoth are all mastery style programs, but all 3 just go to PreAl content. 

[Ting Tang]

9 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

You mentioned middle school, but not the grade.   MM covers to 7th, or PreAlgebra (last I checked).  Singapore also changes in middle school to Demensions or something like that.  CLE does have Algebra 1, I'm not sure if they offer Algebra 2.  I mention this, bc you may want to pick a program that will last more than a few years, and you mentioned Algebra and Calculus,  so I'm assuming Algebra is close. 

Saxon goes all the way through,  and my oldest used it, did very well on tests, is a National Merit Scholar, and took Calculus in college.  Its not the most rigorous,  but I do think it works. There are also lots of teacher support materials if you need them.

I have used a tiny bit of CLE- its good.  If you don't understand,  there isn't much teacher support.   Math Mammoth is another I've used off snd on, and still print a few units out every year.   My kids don't like it- pages are too cluttered and too many questions (even when I cut several out).  I do think their program is well done, and I'm sure I will use them to fill in gaps when necessary.  I do not like them as my main program.   

I would categorize Saxon and CLE together- they are both spiral programs that offer lots of problems to practice each day.  AoPS is not for every kid, but perfect for those that need it.  Singapore or Math in Focus or Math Mammoth are all mastery style programs, but all 3 just go to PreAl content. 

Thank you so much! I’ve thought about finding a program that will last— when he takes algebra is a bit  uncertain, but he is probably 1-even 3 years away I would say. He’s done a lot of fraction, decimal, and percentage work. But his current program is pretty weak in order of operations, algebraic concepts, integers, etc.   I think his level will really depend on the program. Some seem so different! 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Servant4Christ]

Depends on if you want spiral or mastery. CLE is great for spiral, but I wouldn't use them beyond algebra 1 unless they release something new. The grades above that are not sunrise edition. 

[Brittany1116]

IIRC, CLE has their next release of HS math slated for 2022 or 2023. BUT depending on how soon it is needed, it may not be all available in new editions. That's why we switched to Saxon at Algebra. It felt like a good time to get into a new program that we could complete without interruption.

[Servant4Christ]

On 4/7/2022 at 7:34 PM, wendyroo said:

I am a math person, and I did not find CLE rigorous at all. At times they used terminology that was downright incorrect - yes it made the problems easier to solve, but long-term it was teaching very bad habits of thought. The curriculum was very simplistic and algorithmic.

I ended up using CLE for a couple months for one of my kids who was having significant mental health challenges. Then, thankfully, we were able to move to something different.

I was going to post placement tests for CLE compared to Math Mammoth and/or Singapore to show how weak the CLE word problems were...but the CLE placement test for students going into 6th grade does not even have any word problems...compared to:

Math Mammoth:
A meal in a fancy restaurant costs three times as much as a meal in the cafeteria.
 The meal in the fancy restaurant costs $36. In a 5-day workweek, Mary ate lunch
 at the fancy restaurant once, and in the cafeteria the rest of the days.
 How much did she spend on lunch that week?

and Singapore:
The total cost of 4 lb of fish and 3 lb of meat is $42.40. If 1 lb of fish costs $3.25
more than 1 lb of meat, what is the cost of 1 lb of meat?

The CLE placement test, by comparison, is pure, simple arithmetic and geometry definitions, with no problem solving or critical thinking.

What program would you recommend for mastery plus continual review? We use R&S.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, Servant4Christ said:

Depends on if you want spiral or mastery. CLE is great for spiral, but I wouldn't use them beyond algebra 1 unless they release something new. The grades above that are not sunrise edition. 

1 hour ago, Brittany1116 said:

IIRC, CLE has their next release of HS math slated for 2022 or 2023. BUT depending on how soon it is needed, it may not be all available in new editions. That's why we switched to Saxon at Algebra. It felt like a good time to get into a new program that we could complete without interruption.

A balance would be nice.  I would really love if all of my kids could at least be using math from the same provider, but I am not sure I like CLE for the very early grades based on samples only.  I figure if we did Math Mammoth, we'd have to switch at Algebra, too.  I'm so torn on everything.  The older boys did grade levels ahead in Master Books, and it does look like if I set them back, they will repeat a lot, yet if we move ahead, there will be gaps.  I just don't know if the review is enough to fill those gaps, depending on the curriculum.  I am always open to suggestions, lol.

[wendyroo]

1 hour ago, Servant4Christ said:

What program would you recommend for mastery plus continual review?

I know it's not possible for everyone, but I've always provided mastery plus review by mixing different programs.

At my house, a child's first introduction to a topic is always through real life. For example, my 6 year old and I talked about perimeter a lot around the holidays - stringing lights around perimeters of windows or rooms, putting an icing border around the perimeter of a cookie, setting up the train track around the perimeter of the tree skirt, etc. My goal is to expose my kids to concepts in a stress-free, exploratory manner as soon as A. they have the necessary pre-requisite skills and B. we are presented with a relevant real life situation.

Then, over the next weeks/months/years I expand the concepts gradually. Recently, the 6 year old and I played a cool game involving plotting out islands using coordinate points (a new concept for her) and then earning as many points as the perimeter of your island. We also played a round counting out the areas of our islands instead, which was her very first brush with that concept.

Her first "formal" perimeter lessons will be in Math Mammoth 3. She is about half way through level 2 currently, so by the time she gets there it will just be formalizing a concept she already understands well.

And then review is provided through the Math Mammoth reviews, but also Singapore Challenging Word Problems and/or Process skills, Beast Academy, Prodigy, etc.

I guess some would not consider that "continual review"; she will not be finding perimeter every single day. It is more spaced repetition, where I try to revisit a topic, and expand on it a little, right at the point that my kids might start forgetting it.

For families who need a more open and go mastery+review method, Math Mammoth now offers review supplements to go along with their more mastery based main texts.

[Brittany1116]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

A balance would be nice.  I would really love if all of my kids could at least be using math from the same provider, but I am not sure I like CLE for the very early grades based on samples only.  I figure if we did Math Mammoth, we'd have to switch at Algebra, too.  I'm so torn on everything.  The older boys did grade levels ahead in Master Books, and it does look like if I set them back, they will repeat a lot, yet if we move ahead, there will be gaps.  I just don't know if the review is enough to fill those gaps, depending on the curriculum.  I am always open to suggestions, lol.

My oldest did MLFLE in 1st. He did 2nd level based on placement test. It was too easy and "boring". We skipped to the middle of CLE 200s. Book 205 or somewhere thereabout. I checked the scope and sequence and started where they began teaching lines and rays. Anyway, when he was done with CLE 200s, I retested him for MLFLE and it said he placed into 5th level. At the end of 1st grade. So we just kept trucking with CLE, skipping book -01 for each level as that is always a review book after 100s. I have used 200-600 with him, and am in 104 now with my second child. There is constant review but not of each and every concept, and the odd concept that doesn't stick well can always be added in. For my first child, it was cup/pint/quart conversions. For my second, it seems to be minute hand counting by fives. 

You could always check S&S to see where you would have to start each kid for missed concepts, and even just buy 1 book at a time to try. OR buy the TM used and teach the concepts from that on a board or separate paper, give the alternate tests from the back, and skip them through levels. I find CLE materials hold their value well in resale, especially on the dedicated FB groups.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Brittany1116
Clarity

[Ting Tang]

3 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

My oldest did MLFLE in 1st. He did 2nd level based on placement test. It was too easy and "boring". We skipped to the middle of CLE 200s. Book 205 or somewhere thereabout. I checked the scope and sequence and started where they began teaching lines and rays. Anyway, when he was done with CLE 200s, I retested him for MLFLE and it said he placed into 5th level. At the end of 1st grade. So we just kept trucking with CLE, skipping book -01 for each level as that is always a review book after 100s. I have used 200-600 with him, and am in 104 now with my second child. There is constant review but not of each and every concept, and the odd concept that doesn't stick well can always be added in. For my first child, it was cup/pint/quart conversions. For my second, it seems to be minute hand counting by fives. 

You could always check S&S to see where you would have to start each kid for missed concepts, and even just buy 1 book at a time to try. OR buy the TM used and teach the concepts from that on a board or separate paper, give the alternate tests from the back, and skip them through levels. I find CLE materials hold their value well in resale, especially on the dedicated FB groups.

CLE vs. MLFLE does not shock me. My 3rd grader wasn’t quite ready for Abeka 3rd grade this year, and he did all of MLFLE 3 and 4 this year. He finished earlier, and it was still pretty easy for him. There’s not enough multiplication and division. By level 5/6 it does pick up pace, but I was disappointed. My oldest will have fractions, percents, and decimals covered. But order of operations, algebraic thinking was missing except for a wee bit in fractions. He had more in 3rd grade Abeka. Anyway, thank you! CLE is definitely on my list for something I can teach.I introduced another idea today.  The oldest is interested in Beast Academy, but I’m not sure we should go there. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Ting Tang]

8 minutes ago, Lovinglife123 said:

The math will come back to you if you use math mammoth,  you completed higher level math courses, it really is not that hard!  She has a good amount of procedural practice which I like.  I recently bought the spiral review PDFs and WOW so happy.  All three are different learners and all three are thriving!  It is so simple, and we actually are starting to love it, simply because it is fun to work math in a conceptual way.  I have learned so much.  Looks can be deceiving.  It is pure gold.  I dare say better than Singapore 🤐. I print in black and white the light blue series & the spiral review pages.  Each child works on 2 pages (1 page back and front) of the light blue and 1 page (1 side) spiral review.  We do not skip problems.  20/25 minutes they spend? We school year round, and it’s just painless work for them.  I LOVE when they need help, because I love teaching from it.  They need me less and less though, it is that good.  Before I bought the spiral review pdf I was using Zearn, but we dropped that.  The spiral pages are just what we needed.  I love the word problems.  I love it 😂 

Too funny because I’ve been looking closely at Singapore Dimensions this week, lol! I like the appearance of it better, for 5th grade. It gets meatier in 6-8. I am thinking if we go the conceptual route, I may just put him in grade level. He will be repeating what he’s covered, just in a different way. I really like the content of MM, but I do wish there was more space? But I think it’s how she keeps it affordable, too. It is definitely a top contender! That’s awesome your kids enjoy it and do not grumble. That’s what I would like, lol! 

[Ting Tang]

19 hours ago, Lovinglife123 said:

What about just sticking to what he’s doing this year and move on with masterbooks sequence? 

Well, it is actually the last book in the sequence, and then students move onto Principles of Mathematics.  The standard schedule says it takes two years, and then the student is ready for algebra.  It is very wordy, and to be honest, I wasn't very happy with Master Books this year.  My struggling student completed all of levels 3 and 4 as a 3rd grader.  It is very light at those levels and grade 6 mostly "catches up," but I felt like a lot of the instruction was buried in the worksheets, and teaching from that, I felt like I was "doing" most of whatever work there was.  I thought POM looked pretty neat myself, but I don't think it would be a good fit for him.  CLE looks pretty good, but it is traditional.  I think I have Math Mammoth and Singapore Dimensions on the list with CLE.  I was worried about teaching those conceptual programs, but it might be a good move for him. I also kinda like BJU.

[prairiewindmomma]

Most people leave CLE after the 600 levels because 600 overlaps with pre-algebra. 
 

We left specifically because I did not think their high school level series was adequate, and I wanted to stick with the same series for pre-algebra through calculus.

[wisdomandtreasures]

Just another "success story" here--my oldest (12 with a couple of rocky years as we bounced around trying to find a good fit) just went from CLE 6 to Algebra 1 with no hiccups. 🙂

[Ting Tang]

16 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Most people leave CLE after the 600 levels because 600 overlaps with pre-algebra. 
 

We left specifically because I did not think their high school level series was adequate, and I wanted to stick with the same series for pre-algebra through calculus.

That makes sense.  One of the reasons I didn't want to use Rod & Staff as a main curriculum was for that reason, though I do know it is a good, solid curriculum for the early years!  We're using the second part of 2nd grade to finish up my daughter's 1st grade year.  It was cheap.  lol  But I had no idea the lessons were so long! 

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, wisdomandtreasures said:

Just another "success story" here--my oldest (12 with a couple of rocky years as we bounced around trying to find a good fit) just went from CLE 6 to Algebra 1 with no hiccups. 🙂

Oh wow, I was just replying to the comment about the 600 level.  That is great!  I thought it looked like it had a lot of content that would come right before algebra.

 

[Ting Tang]

15 hours ago, Lovinglife123 said:

@Ting Tangmasterbooks does look wordy.  He’s probably ready for mathusee prealgebra?  I have a set and it looks pretty basic. I plan to possibly use that after math mammoth 5.  I’ve heard good things of CLE but it is also long.  He sounds like he doesn’t need tons of practice/ review.

I've looked at that a bit, too.  Sometimes he seems so distracted or not consistent that I think he needs another year before any type of pre-algebra or anything that would require more attention to detail.  But it might be a good option just from a layout standpoint at his age.  I'll look again, thank you!

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, Lovinglife123 said:

He might place in the level before.  What’s nice about math u see is you can speed through a level at their pace.  It goes through calculus so no further switching needed.  It’s extremely teacher friendly.

Thanks so much!  If I recall, the levels are greek letters?  I've read some criticisms that it is "light," so that concerned me, mainly after our Master Books experience.  But I don't really know what that means, considering it goes through calculus.  

[Ting Tang]

2 hours ago, Lovinglife123 said:

No. It’s not light.  It’s thorough, mastery, and does not contain any fluff.  It is nothing like masterbooks.  It is akin to Rod and Staff in some ways (slow & steady in the early years), except it is conceptual in its approach.  It has review built in.  I guess it depends on what you want.  It isn’t head bashingly difficult to where your child is in tears every day, but that’s because they keep math simple and incremental.  I wish you luck in deciding.  I kind of wish I would have stuck with MUS years ago, but I also worried it was too “light”.  I’m not sure why I thought my kid needed to struggle in math 😂.  I have some CLE 4, we used a couple units this year.  I don’t regret it because it gave my DS a chance to cement long division.  He didn’t do full lessons, just a couple pages a day.  I don’t think I will buy it again,  but it does seem to work too.  🤗   Maybe print out some lessons.  I can even send you what I have in cle for shipping cost.  

Thank you!  I will take another look at it.  And thank you so much for the offer with CLE.  I am not sure what level he would place into, so I better not acquire anything until I have my list and he finishes this school year, lol. 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Fwiw, the placement tests with MUS are pretty accurate. I would feel confident with wherever they place your student if you decide to head that direction. CLE’s placement tests didn’t always have the exact right fit. I had to do some re-teaching with one kid. CLE is very procedural, IMO, and not great for global thinking. It’s strength is in the continual review built in for the kids who need that, and in measurement/time/money.

[8filltheheart]

MUS's elementary levels are fine.  The high school level texts are most definitely light.  I have used MUS alg and geo with all of my kids as pre-alg and pre-geo and completed in a single yr and followed by another yr of alg and another yr of geo with more complex texts.  I would not recommend MUS for high school except for students who really struggle with math mastery.  I definitely wouldn't recommend it for a student wanting to pursue a STEM career.

[Ting Tang]

6 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Fwiw, the placement tests with MUS are pretty accurate. I would feel confident with wherever they place your student if you decide to head that direction. CLE’s placement tests didn’t always have the exact right fit. I had to do some re-teaching with one kid. CLE is very procedural, IMO, and not great for global thinking. It’s strength is in the continual review built in for the kids who need that, and in measurement/time/money.

Thank you!  Well, it said he'd be ready for pre-algebra, so there is that! 

2 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

MUS's elementary levels are fine.  The high school level texts are most definitely light.  I have used MUS alg and geo with all of my kids as pre-alg and pre-geo and completed in a single yr and followed by another yr of alg and another yr of geo with more complex texts.  I would not recommend MUS for high school except for students who really struggle with math mastery.  I definitely wouldn't recommend it for a student wanting to pursue a STEM career.

Thank you so much!  He is only heading into 5th grade technically, so there is plenty of time.  I am not sure what kind of career he will have, of course.  I think he thinks he can film his adventures, post them to YouTube, and get rich.  LOL  We're trying to be a little more realistic as his parents.  ha ha!

[Servant4Christ]

On 4/26/2022 at 5:10 PM, Lovinglife123 said:

 😂.  🤗   

Sorry, it won't let me erase your quote box.

OP: Have you looked at VideoText? That's what I'm looking at for after we complete R&S.

Another popular option that I haven't researched yet is Foersters Algebra and Jacobs Geometry.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Servant4Christ