R&S Math Thread

[Servant4Christ]

Thought I'd start this for posting any/all questions about Rod and Staff Math because and it would be nice to have everything all in one place.

[Servant4Christ]

Has anyone used Math 1? I'm browsing through the TM wondering if/how you made the flannel board? Was it really helpful throughout the course or better for classroom teaching?

[Clarita]

I tried using math 1. I think it's a strong program, but it wasn't for us (too much writing for the concepts being taught for my K4 mathy kid). I did use it to supplement Singapore Earlybird Kindergarten. We liked the explorative aspect of Singapore but R&S had clearer more explicit explanations. One topic in particular that I liked R&S approach/explanation was skip counting (and therefore coins/money). 

The flannel board I think you can do without. Just do it on the floor. Although it is pretty easy to make your own by gluing/tape/attaching felt cloth on to a hard poster board (I made one, essentially with duct tape as the adhesive). In hindsight it would have served the same purpose if I just had just placed my yard of felt on the floor.  

[LauraClark]

We use rod and Staff math kind of loosely. I stopped using the teachers' manuals and just teach the concepts as they come up in the student's book, so never made a flannel board. 

[Ting Tang]

My daughter finished 1st grade math with Abeka, so I started her on the 2nd half of R&S 2nd grade math.  I didn't do a lot of research, but the lessons seem rather long?  Each workbook lesson is 4 pages long, plus the TM exercises.  We mostly just have her do the workbook.  I don't think we will use it for our main math curriculum, but it was cheap and something mathy for her to do for the rest of our school year. 

[Green Bean]

I have used it with the ducks edition. I didn’t make the flannel board, though. I just drew on my dry erase board or grabbed the Unifix cubes/LEGOS. I also used the MP plans which spreads GR. 1 out over Kinder and 1st grade by adding in a lot of the worksheets. They are worth the $5!

I much prefer the ducks TM to the new one. I think it is clearer when explaining some concepts. I would use both, if I do it again.

As far as too much writing- don’t do EVERY line. If the child has shown mastery, move on.

Also, do not use all the suggested worksheets on the same day or at all. Rather, do the text lesson one day then spread out the wkshts over the rest of the week or skip them. 

Last bit of advice- do not time the “speed drills” at this age. The idea is mastery, not stressed kid.

And finally- don’t stress about HAVING to finish the book in one school year. Take your time, go at the child’s pace and you will get better results and happier days.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Green Bean

[Green Bean]

Grade 3- most people use it as a wkbk. Save your writing battles for the grammar.

[LauraClark]

41 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

My daughter finished 1st grade math with Abeka, so I started her on the 2nd half of R&S 2nd grade math.  I didn't do a lot of research, but the lessons seem rather long?  Each workbook lesson is 4 pages long, plus the TM exercises.  We mostly just have her do the workbook.  I don't think we will use it for our main math curriculum, but it was cheap and something mathy for her to do for the rest of our school year. 

Agree-the lessons are very long. I never assign the entire lesson. Maybe even less than half of the lesson. If I feel like they've mastered the concept we move on.

[Servant4Christ]

We started R&S math with Oldest in 3rd grade, so I'm very familiar with the program and layout. I'm just looking through the younger grade TMs trying to figure out which extras I want to make/buy before I need them for my younger 2. We are going to make our own version of the 2nd grade bees/flowers poster by making bee hives instead of flowers because mine are all boys and pink flowers just aren't masculine enough. Lol

Update: As it turns out, hives won't work with the running theme of the lessons at all, so the boys asked me to just not color the flowers.

Edited March 30 by Servant4Christ

[Servant4Christ]

2 hours ago, Green Bean said:

I have used it with the ducks edition. I didn’t make the flannel board, though. I just drew on my dry erase board or grabbed the Unifix cubes/LEGOS. I also used the MP plans which spreads GR. 1 out over Kinder and 1st grade by adding in a lot of the worksheets. They are worth the $5!

I much prefer the ducks TM to the new one. I think it is clearer when explaining some concepts. I would use both, if I do it again.

As far as too much writing- don’t do EVERY line. If the child has shown mastery, move on.

Also, do not use all the suggested worksheets on the same day or at all. Rather, do the text lesson one day then spread out the wkshts over the rest of the week or skip them. 

Last bit of advice- do not time the “speed drills” at this age. The idea is mastery, not stressed kid.

And finally- don’t stress about HAVING to finish the book in one school year. Take your time, go at the child’s pace and you will get better results and happier days.

I completely forgot MP spreads out R&S 1 over K and first! Thank you for the reminder!

[2_girls_mommy]

I used R&S 1st grade with all three of mine over K and 1st grade, then moved into 2nd grade at regular speed.  Yes, I made the flannel board and all the suggested posters for grades 1 and 2.  They are the manipulatives for this age (though sometimes I pulled in other things not in the curric for hands on too.)  The ducks for the duck pond are great.  I made them 15 years ago for my now sophomore in college dd for K, and just finished with them last spring with my youngest.  The same went for the poster I made.  I laminated everything I made and used with all of the kiddos.  I did not buy their flashcards.  I just made my own with index cards for each lesson.  And for their cards that have three numbers listed I just did those problems on a whiteboard.  In 2nd grade it calls for making a poster of boats.  There are slits on the poster and the boats fit into the slots to move around.  And there is a another one of clover flowers with bees.  The patterns for making the posters are in the back of the T.M.  They are worth it to teach the lessons each day, and go along well with the lessons and make a good visual.    I did not ever make the 3rd grade learning poster for multiplication.  I can't remember what I found hard about it, but I couldn't figure it out.  We are about to finish up 2nd grade with my ydd, so I need to go back and look at it. 

[Ellie]

The first three years, the TM is vital, because that's when the concepts are actually taught. In fact, new concepts will be taught several times before they turn up on the seatwork. The scripted lessons are easy to do; you teach, then give your dc the seatwork, which reinforces what you just taught. It's a very effective way of teaching. Beginning with the fourth book, although there are still scripted lessons, they are not necessary, as everything the children need to know is right there in their textbooks. The scripted lessons don't add anything; it's just a way of having some face time with the children. 🙂

I think of R&S as stealth vigor. 🙂 When compared to the scope and sequences of other publishers, R&S might look like it's "behind" the others, but at fourth grade it's right on *and* the dc have an excellent understanding of basic arithmetic.

[Servant4Christ]

So glad to see you Ellie! I'm definitely with you on using the TMs. I missed a couple things early on in 3rd and learned my lesson fast. I scan the TM every day before math (5th grade) just in case. 

[Zoo Keeper]

Reminding myself to reply later...  🙂 

[2_girls_mommy]

13 hours ago, Ellie said:

The first three years, the TM is vital, because that's when the concepts are actually taught. In fact, new concepts will be taught several times before they turn up on the seatwork. The scripted lessons are easy to do; you teach, then give your dc the seatwork, which reinforces what you just taught. It's a very effective way of teaching. Beginning with the fourth book, although there are still scripted lessons, they are not necessary, as everything the children need to know is right there in their textbooks. The scripted lessons don't add anything; it's just a way of having some face time with the children. 🙂

I think of R&S as stealth vigor. 🙂 When compared to the scope and sequences of other publishers, R&S might look like it's "behind" the others, but at fourth grade it's right on *and* the dc have an excellent understanding of basic arithmetic.

Yes, I remember comparing my kids to Saxon math by having them take the placement exams every now and then, and they were right on target grade wise with those placement exams, using R&S.  I probably did those somewhere between 3-6th grades to make sure we were on a standard track. 

[Zoo Keeper]

Rather than re-type, I'll just quote myself. 

https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/666122-singapore-or-rod-staff-math/#comment-7947632

https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/695117-if-you-use-rs-for-math-in-younger-grades-do-you-switch-and-when/#comment-8547988

https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/695068-rs-math-in-younger-grades-and-skipping-some-problems/#comment-8546357

 

 

[Mirror]

I used the new 1st Grade maths this year I was impressed with it's a really solid program. 

For me the strongest component was the Teachers manual I found if I stuck to the TM it really reinforced the learning and if I needed to cut the lesson down a bit I would stick to the TM and the loose worksheets. 

When I bought it from MP, I didn't pick up on the fact it came with 950 loose worksheets 😯 but I much prefer them to the workbooks and useful if your student needs to be stretched more. 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mirror

[2_girls_mommy]

3 hours ago, Mirror said:

I used the new 1st Grade maths this year I was impressed with it's a really solid program. 

For me the strongest component was the Teachers manual I found if I stuck to the TM it really reinforced the learning and if I needed to cut the lesson down a bit I would stick to the TM and the loose worksheets. 

When I bought it from MP, I didn't pick up on the fact it came with 950 loose worksheets 😯 but I much prefer them to the workbooks and useful if your student needs to be stretched more. 

 

 

I never bought the extra math worksheets.  But I did occasionally buy the English and used them the same way.  We do much of the English orally, and I choose the right amount of writing each day.  In the later elem-middle school years, when my girls were doing quite a bit of writing across the curriculum, a grammar worksheet was often enough.  They didn't need to copy out the whole grammar lesson from the text to practice the given lesson. 

[Ellie]

7 hours ago, Mirror said:

I used the new 1st Grade maths this year I was impressed with it's a really solid program. 

For me the strongest component was the Teachers manual I found if I stuck to the TM it really reinforced the learning and if I needed to cut the lesson down a bit I would stick to the TM and the loose worksheets. 

When I bought it from MP, I didn't pick up on the fact it came with 950 loose worksheets 😯 but I much prefer them to the workbooks and useful if your student needs to be stretched more.

For the most part, the blackline masters are used for extra practice that looks different from the seatwork. Some of them were useful because they were things like dot-to-dot that started at 13 instead of 1 (so the children would have practice doing that, because so often they just start at 1, and in real life, we don't always start counting with 1), or skip-counting by 3s starting with 15. And they are masters, meant to be photocopied (some are used more than once) in a classroom situation (because they were written for the classroom, not homeschoolers). I believe there are also patterns for some of the visuals. The second grade black line masters have the 1000s book, which the children write in when they feel like it. 🙂 There are a few things in there for more advanced children, as well (I think the TM specifies which things are which).

They are still extra, but they can be useful. 🙂

[Mirror]

11 hours ago, 2_girls_mommy said:

I never bought the extra math worksheets.  But I did occasionally buy the English and used them the same way.  We do much of the English orally, and I choose the right amount of writing each day.  In the later elem-middle school years, when my girls were doing quite a bit of writing across the curriculum, a grammar worksheet was often enough.  They didn't need to copy out the whole grammar lesson from the text to practice the given lesson. 

 

I didn't know the English curriculum comes with extra worksheets I will look into them. I managed to get the English 2 TM used (a rare find in the UK) my approach is the same as yours to do it orally or on the white board, picking a few pieces out for my daughter to writing portion. 

15 hours ago, Zoo Keeper said:

Rather than re-type, I'll just quote myself. 

https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/666122-singapore-or-rod-staff-math/#comment-7947632

https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/695117-if-you-use-rs-for-math-in-younger-grades-do-you-switch-and-when/#comment-8547988

https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/695068-rs-math-in-younger-grades-and-skipping-some-problems/#comment-8546357

 

 

 

Thank you so much for this I had been pondering going with this approach next year with my math able kid. My plan is to buy the TM and use orally then add in Math Mammoth. 

 

@Ellie thank you Ellie I will order the Blackline masters too. The 1000 book sounds similar to the Montessori number roll that I was thinking of doing. 

[Green Bean]

The new editions of math are different with regard to the wkshts. If you look at the samples of the TM’s at milestone books.com, you can read about it.

[Ellie]

2 hours ago, Green Bean said:

The new editions of math are different with regard to the wkshts. If you look at the samples of the TM’s at milestone books.com, you can read about it.

I just find it easier to work directly with the publisher. 🙂 The curriculum samples are free, and then you get to hold them in your hand and make notes and everything. The catalog is free, and ditto. And you can call the publisher and talk to an actual person, maybe even the author.

[Servant4Christ]

51 minutes ago, Ellie said:

I just find it easier to work directly with the publisher. 🙂 The curriculum samples are free, and then you get to hold them in your hand and make notes and everything. The catalog is free, and ditto. And you can call the publisher and talk to an actual person, maybe even the author.

Yes. They have the absolute BEST customer service and support staff of any homeschool curriculum publisher I've ever encountered, hands down.

[Green Bean]

My major con with R&S is no full solutions included for any upper level book- not even the board notes or word problems. I’m sorry I’m not a math genius. I need to know how you got that answer to be able to help my kid. 

[Servant4Christ]

18 hours ago, Green Bean said:

My major con with R&S is no full solutions included for any upper level book- not even the board notes or word problems. I’m sorry I’m not a math genius. I need to know how you got that answer to be able to help my kid. 

I've noticed this in math, too. I think R&S' assumption is that if you are teaching the daily lessons from the TM rather than just using it as an answer key, you'll already know how to solve the problem when a student occasionally needs help with a specific problem. It just takes longer because you have to work it out yourself rather than quickly looking it up. Can you imagine how big the TMs would be with full solutions?! They're already 2 textbooks long!

[Green Bean]

CLE and others manage to do it.

Make the books normal size.

Have a separate solutions guide ala Saxon.

That is the only thing that holds me back from using it. I have 4 to teach doing 4 different grade levels here. I don’t have time to work every problem out.

Maybe with Little Man.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Green Bean

[Servant4Christ]

18 hours ago, Green Bean said:

CLE and others manage to do it.

Make the books normal size.

Have a separate solutions guide ala Saxon.

That is the only thing that holds me back from using it. I have 4 to teach doing 4 different grade levels here. I don’t have time to work every problem out.

Maybe with Little Man.

I used to use CLE. I seem to remember the full solutions was a separate book from the TM. That would be convenient if R&S made one. As for multiple math/grades at once, I'll be there soon enough. There really should to be a great book on how to teach in a one room schoolhouse because that's the only thing I can think of that's even close to homeschooling multiple children.

[nwahomeschoolmom]

On 4/1/2022 at 3:28 PM, Green Bean said:

My major con with R&S is no full solutions included for any upper level book- not even the board notes or word problems. I’m sorry I’m not a math genius. I need to know how you got that answer to be able to help my kid. 

Oh dear!  I didn't know this and just purchased R&S Math 7!  (After a few years in CLE.) BTW, used R&S Math 1 without making any posters, flannel boards, etc.  My kids are mathy though.

[Servant4Christ]

20 hours ago, nwahomeschoolmom said:

Oh dear!  I didn't know this and just purchased R&S Math 7!  (After a few years in CLE.) BTW, used R&S Math 1 without making any posters, flannel boards, etc.  My kids are mathy though.

Maybe we won't need these, but it might make the lessons a bit more fun? IDK. Middle is hard to keep focused and a natural problem solver (I call it mischievous) so he could turn out to be my mathy kiddo. One can only hope.

[Green Bean]

On 4/3/2022 at 12:30 PM, Servant4Christ said:

I used to use CLE. I seem to remember the full solutions was a separate book from the TM. That would be convenient if R&S made one. As for multiple math/grades at once, I'll be there soon enough. There really should to be a great book on how to teach in a one room schoolhouse because that's the only thing I can think of that's even close to homeschooling multiple children.

The full CLE solutions are in the TM on the reduced student pages, but we used the LightUnits and I know you had the text for gr. 4 at least so it might be different?

[Servant4Christ]

6 hours ago, Green Bean said:

The full CLE solutions are in the TM on the reduced student pages, but we used the LightUnits and I know you had the text for gr. 4 at least so it might be different?

It's been a long time so I don't remember. We used the light units for grades 1-3 and then the text for grade 4. (I'm surprised you remember that!) We only got part way through it before jumping backwards into R&S 3 (halfway through the textbook) to get familiar with it, solidify some stuff, and give Oldest some confidence.

I look forward to seeing your duckies for grade 1! I'm going to look through my TM today to see what all is in there. The grade 1 flashcards look easy enough to DIY.

[Green Bean]

I polled my older kids about what math to use with Little Man. They all insisted I use "the duck math". They have fond memories of the addition and subtraction Waldorf-influenced stories I used when teaching them their facts.

I made ducks last night using the free template linked, printing on yellow cardstock, laminating, then putting a sticky magnet square on each after cutting out. I'm going to draw a pond each time on our dry erase board then place duckies as needed.

https://www.makinglearningfun.com/t.asp?b=m&t=https://www.makinglearningfun.com/Activities/Ducks/DuckPatternOutline/DuckPatternOutlines-small.gif

I haven't found a good 100 number line yet. I have a 100 chart, but I think a line would be best for this. Teachers Pay Teachers have some I have looked at. They are either HUGE, too colorful, or one was really small. I have a 17ft long wall in our classroom space. Ideas? No teacher supply stores are near me, which is weird cause it IS Houston! To help with visualizing: I have the MP manuscript wall charts going along this wall with about 16 in. left over.

I haven't bought the books yet. He still has a bit to go in his Singapore Essentials A book. I am debating having him finish Book B or not. I looked it over last night to decide. I still don't know. I know I can't teach Singapore (many tries in the past), and I'm not one for sticking the kid in front of teaching vids at this age.

I am going to start the duck math fact families, though. He is very good at memorizing so might as well get a jump on that. I plan to buy the MP flashcards with my next order. For now, I'm using halved 3x5 cards.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Green Bean

[Green Bean]

4 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

 

Double post. Quoting myself??

Edited April 5, 2022 by Green Bean

[Clarita]

58 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

I haven't found a good 100 number line yet.

I made my own using sentence strips. Amazon.com : 150 Sheets Sentence Strips for Teacher Word Strips Ruled Sentence Strips School Learning Sentence Strips, 3 x 12 Inch for School Office Supplies, 6 Pieces (White) : Office Products

I just tape several sheets together and draw the number line on the dotted line in the middle.

[Servant4Christ]

I had no idea sentence strips even existed! I could use those to write D'Nealian letters to place over the ball and stick letters on our alphabet flashcards and in the workbooks when he's learning to write his letters! Woot!

Edited April 5, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[Servant4Christ]

As for number lines, I used a roll of butcher paper and drew a really long train track.

[AnneGG]

6 hours ago, Clarita said:

I made my own using sentence strips. Amazon.com : 150 Sheets Sentence Strips for Teacher Word Strips Ruled Sentence Strips School Learning Sentence Strips, 3 x 12 Inch for School Office Supplies, 6 Pieces (White) : Office Products

I just tape several sheets together and draw the number line on the dotted line in the middle.

Same! We use them for our timelines too. 
 

[Green Bean]

Threads over on MP forum:

https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum/classical-curriculum/k-8-curriculum-board/135627-convince-me-rod-and-staff

https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum/classical-curriculum/k-8-curriculum-board/4129-shifting-to-rod-and-staff-math-i-hope-please-share-your-wisdom

Edited April 6, 2022 by Green Bean

[Servant4Christ]

On 4/6/2022 at 5:55 PM, Green Bean said:

Threads over on MP forum:

https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum/classical-curriculum/k-8-curriculum-board/135627-convince-me-rod-and-staff

https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum/classical-curriculum/k-8-curriculum-board/4129-shifting-to-rod-and-staff-math-i-hope-please-share-your-wisdom

I LOVED reading through the first one! The person who said they jumped ship midway through CLE 4 and had to backtrack big time was exactly what happened here. R&S is what saved us from daily tears and finally gave Oldest some confidence in his ability to know and understand math.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[Green Bean]

nm.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Green Bean

[Servant4Christ]

That's awesome, @Green Bean! 

I actually went back and looked at CLE again and you are right. The TM for the light unit method has full solutions. The TM for the textbook method only has the answers without full solutions. I found the TM next to useless because everything the student needs is right in the textbook. They do have a full solutions book that would've been perfect for using the textbook method. I honestly think that if we'd have been in the proper grade for the age from the start, CLE would've been fine for us, but I am also very grateful for R&S because some stuff that CLE phases out (assuming the student has mastered it) is continued throughout R&S to make sure it's not forgotten. I LOVE that in R&S, Roman numerals are practiced regularly. Oldest finds them in the oddest of places (near the copyright in his reading books)! Also, money is still being practiced in fifth grade! He's counting back money in what I call banker's style, which most kids have no clue how to do in this day and age.

[Servant4Christ]

We're just wrapping up our last week in grade 5 and I'm briefly flipping through the grade 6 text and it looks like a repeat of grade 5. Has anyone just skipped the grade 6 book and used the grade 7 instead?

[Brittany1116]

7 minutes ago, Servant4Christ said:

We're just wrapping up our last week in grade 5 and I'm briefly flipping through the grade 6 text and it looks like a repeat of grade 5. Has anyone just skipped the grade 6 book and used the grade 7 instead?

I don't use RS math, but I would suggest looking closely at the second half of the book. I often feel like math is on repeat until I get further in and realize it is actually a step up. 

[Green Bean]

5 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

We're just wrapping up our last week in grade 5 and I'm briefly flipping through the grade 6 text and it looks like a repeat of grade 5. Has anyone just skipped the grade 6 book and used the grade 7 instead?

I would strongly encourage you not to do that. 

[Servant4Christ]

59 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

I would strongly encourage you not to do that. 

Yeah, you're probably right. It was just something I noticed because I was looking to see when certain things would get taught and was surprised at how long it will be.

[Servant4Christ]

@Green Bean I'm glad we didn't jump ahead because we are right where we need to be and life is good. Oldest is in the 6th grade book and wow does the mental math kick up a serious notch, this year! Today's lesson was on finding prime factors of composite numbers. Way easier than it sounds, but I totally forgot what this looks like on paper and had to sit down and refresh my memory before going through it with Oldest. I do not ever remember using division brackets upside down, but it makes sense in this application.

Middle is in the preschool series learning his numbers with Youngest helping. We made our own number cards. Each number is underlined (so they don't get memorized upside down) and I drew dots on the back (like on dice) in case Middle doesn't remember or hasn't learned the number yet so he can just count the dots. Youngest picks a card and holds it up for Middle to tell him the number and then Youngest repeats back whatever Middle says. It's too cute.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[Green Bean]

Thank you for bumping! I could not find this thread again by searching.

Servie- your boys are too cute!

Here’s the final 0-18 wall. Blue is addition with corresponding subtraction fact in green under. Little Man is slowly making his way through. We recite a couple rows daily. I’m not aiming for complete mastery this year (1st), but I think he might get there by the end anyway. We’ll see.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Green Bean

[Malam]

What’s all this about duck math?

[Servant4Christ]

2 hours ago, Malam said:

What’s all this about duck math?

That's what many people here call the previous edition of R&S grade 1 Math. Instead of counting crayons, ducks were used as the visual for counting. Cute as is it, I won't be using that edition, as I already have the current edition teachers manual.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[Green Bean]

2 ducks in the pond and 3 in the grass. How many ducks altogether? 5

It’s the highly effective way 2nd edition introduced and practiced the fact families. This gives the child a mental picture to come back to when figuring facts out. I am using them with Little Man’s BJU Math 1 so it’s not like the stories can only be used with R&S. Waldorf uses gnomes and acorns. I’ve seen knights or pirates with jewels. Pick whatever sticks for your kid.