I feel so frustrated about people refusing vaccination…

[TravelingChris]

4 hours ago, KSera said:

I did not. For some reason I have a short attention span for learning things via video. I much prefer to read about something.

But, now that you say this, I will put this video on my to do list and watch it with my 12 year old as part of school this week 😊.

I also much prefer reading.  So much that I haven't joined the podcasr craze and generally don't like long YouTube things too.

[Harriet Vane]

6 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I also much prefer reading.  So much that I haven't joined the podcasr craze and generally don't like long YouTube things too.

I also prefer reading. 

One thing that helps a ton is to set whatever video I want to hear to play at 1.5 or even double speed. 

[Kassia]

18 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I also much prefer reading.  So much that I haven't joined the podcasr craze and generally don't like long YouTube things too.

I also prefer reading.  I get too distracted watching or listening to something.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kassia said:

I also prefer reading.  I get too distracted watching or listening to something.  

Me too. One funny thing that always crops up at my house is that if dh finds a recipe for a food he wants to make, it’s *always* a damn YouTube video. I canNOT do a recipe that way AT ALL. I have to *read* it. 

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

I also prefer reading. 

One thing that helps a ton is to set whatever video I want to hear to play at 1.5 or even double speed. 

Oh yes.  I agree

[TravelingChris]

And back on topic, I just read about a couple in their 40s who had been urged by family members including their parents to get vaccinated.  They had 4 children.  There reason for not getting the vaccines was yhat thet were in great shape snd healthy. And niw four children are true,2 psrent orphans 

[SeaConquest]

3 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I also much prefer reading.  So much that I haven't joined the podcasr craze and generally don't like long YouTube things too.

I also prefer reading, but this video did hold my attention, so I recommend it. It was just nerdy enough to be of interest to us bookwormish types. My son and I both found it very interesting. I recommend that you all give it shot. 

Here is the link: 

ETA: The video really helps people to understand what I've been trying to explain re Covid immunity. Just because you had a Wuhan or British Covid infection, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are protected from Delta Covid. It also explains how they think these mutations are emerging. Please, get vaccinated.

Edited October 17, 2021 by SeaConquest

[Corraleno]

24 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

And back on topic, I just read about a couple in their 40s who had been urged by family members including their parents to get vaccinated.  They had 4 children.  There reason for not getting the vaccines was yhat thet were in great shape snd healthy. And niw four children are true,2 psrent orphans 

Is that the family in Virginia? That story is beyond tragic, the kids had to go live with relatives in another state, so they have not only lost their parents, they've lost their home, community, friends, and school. And the aunt & uncle have had their lives totally turned upside down by having to take in four grieving, traumatized children. So many lives forever changed by malignant lies and misinformation.

[frogger]

On 10/14/2021 at 12:50 PM, KSera said:

.

Really? That's so interesting. Here, mandates have worked incredibly well. Mask mandates have come and gone a couple times, depending on case numbers and variants, and each time, you saw the masks coming off when not required, and then right back on when required again. Mid-Summer, less than half the people in stores were wearing masks. By September when mandates were in place again. I never saw anyone without a mask inside, and still don't.

Ok, I guess I was completely wrong when I said overall numbers of people wearing masks goes up. I did see that last time but not this time. My husband said it felt like there were less than usual today and a mask mandate was put in place last Thursday.  I went somewhere today where I literally only saw one other person masked. 

Without enforcement- it's worthless. 

 

[KSera]

24 minutes ago, frogger said:

Ok, I guess I was completely wrong when I said overall numbers of people wearing masks goes up. I did see that last time but not this time. My husband said it felt like there were less than usual today and a mask mandate was put in place last Thursday.  I went somewhere today where I literally only saw one other person masked. 

Without enforcement- it's worthless. 

 

That’s so crazy different than where I am. I wonder if it’s a critical mass thing, where when enough people are doing it, everyone follows the rules, but if enough people are defying the rules, everyone does? Are people generally Covid deniers/minimizers where you are? I literally never see anyone unmasked indoors right now, unless it’s a baby.   

[Kassia]

22 minutes ago, KSera said:

That’s so crazy different than where I am. I wonder if it’s a critical mass thing, where when enough people are doing it, everyone follows the rules, but if enough people are defying the rules, everyone does? Are people generally Covid deniers/minimizers where you are? I literally never see anyone unmasked indoors right now, unless it’s a baby.   

I am definitely in the minority wearing a mask where I live.  Many in our community are anti-mask/anti-mask and still think the whole Covid thing is a hoax and we're being lied to.  It's maddening.  

[Guest]

Just an update that some might find interesting in this thread. Yesterday I took ds to a college tour and open hour (in Maryland). When we registered, there was information on covid safety and they stated you must bring either your vaccination card or proof of a negative test in the last three days. I wondered if they were going to enforce this and was hoping they really would. 
 

So -they really did. Before you could move forward to check in you had to show your proof. They gave you a bracelet pass once you checked out. As we were in line, some guy was storming angrily back to the parking lot muttering about rights. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I was grateful because they were stringently enforcing the parameters they said they would. 

[Harriet Vane]

8 hours ago, KSera said:

That’s so crazy different than where I am. I wonder if it’s a critical mass thing, where when enough people are doing it, everyone follows the rules, but if enough people are defying the rules, everyone does? Are people generally Covid deniers/minimizers where you are? I literally never see anyone unmasked indoors right now, unless it’s a baby.   

Where I am most people do not mask. In stores I might see 30-40% masked. In my large church there are usually less than ten individuals masked. Dh and I have often been the only people on the property with masks.

So yeah, huge regional differences.

[Wheres Toto]

You still see over 50% masked in most stores around here.  Some you will see closer to 90%.  And we don't have an indoor mask mandate, except for schools, right now.  

From everything I'm hearing, the local community college and universities that are requiring vaccination, are really following through with it.   We are looking into having ds start taking classes at our local CC in January.  He's already vaccinated so we don't have to worry about that, and he has no problem wearing a mask even if nobody else is.

[frogger]

9 hours ago, KSera said:

That’s so crazy different than where I am. I wonder if it’s a critical mass thing, where when enough people are doing it, everyone follows the rules, but if enough people are defying the rules, everyone does? Are people generally Covid deniers/minimizers where you are? I literally never see anyone unmasked indoors right now, unless it’s a baby.   

A lot of them are. I wonder if a lot of them also missed the memo. Many people are so sick of craziness they quit watching the news, etc. 

[Corraleno]

9 hours ago, KSera said:

That’s so crazy different than where I am. I wonder if it’s a critical mass thing, where when enough people are doing it, everyone follows the rules, but if enough people are defying the rules, everyone does? Are people generally Covid deniers/minimizers where you are? I literally never see anyone unmasked indoors right now, unless it’s a baby.   

Same here. As long as there is a mandate, we have always had close to 100% compliance. There was a brief period when the mandate was lifted (after the CDC stupidly said that vaccinated people didn't need to wear one) when masking dropped quite a bit, but as soon as it was reinstated, it was back to nearly 100% compliance here. But my county and the adjacent county also have a really high vax rate (~80% of eligible 12+), and relatively low positivity and per capita case rates; there are definitely rural parts of the state where masking and vax rates are much lower, and positivity and case rates are much higher.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Corraleno
typos

[SKL]

20 hours ago, KSera said:

On a different note, I've been wondering throughout this how many of the people who are vax hesitant are actually needle phobic, and just for the first time saw a discussion of this. It does sound like this is a segment out there that is not being well reached. I think it's a tough one, because the nature of a phobia is that someone will do whatever they need to to avoid their trigger, and the anti vax stuff gives phobic people perfect cover to not need to confront the actual phobia that is holding them back.

This thread addresses needle phobia and more about the sociology of the unvaccinated. Mandates as a way of letting people save face is an interesting thing as well:

 

I think needle phobia is part of it for some people, but also just the feeling that less is more when it comes to chemicals in our bodies, coupled with a loss of trust due to past history with the medical / pharmaceutical profession and other high-profit-motive businesses.

I was just talking to someone who is 60+ and over 25 BMI ... who has a second cousin who died of Covid and other close relatives who had breakthrough Covid cases (though after a different vax than her Pfizer).  I mentioned that she should be eligible for a booster about a month from now.  First of all, despite having news TV on practically all day every day, she was not aware that boosters were a thing.  Secondly, she is currently of the opinion that she's had enough shots and doesn't want to have another one.  She's planning to attend a big gathering in December, so maybe she'll change her mind before then.

[SKL]

20 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

And here's my biggest rationale for why nurses need to be better educated (and better paid):

We spend more time with the patients than anyone else.

Physicians have to have a crap ton of education because they have to diagnose, treat, and prescribe. They have to do that for a huge number of patients, across a wide variety of disease states. Doesn't matter what field you are in, it's an awesome amount of information and no one can know it all, so you have to specialize. It was the same in the law.

But nurses are the eyes and ears of physicians. We are constantly assessing our patients. We have to know if what we are seeing is normal or not. We have to know if it deviates from baseline just a little, so we can just monitor it, or if it is serious enough to merit an immediate nursing intervention that we can perform autonomously, or if it's serious enough that it merits a call to the physician for new orders.

These are the people spending 12+ hours at the bedside of your patient. People who have to understand patients who are living longer, have a greater number of co-morbidities, are being prescribed a greater number of medications (which can interact with one another, so we need to ensure the docs don't make errors when they Rx, which they do), and are being kept alive with increasingly more complex devices and machines. You really want well-educated people doing all of this.  

Gone are the days when nurses just took orders. Nurses are licensed professionals, who have a ton of autonomy within their scope of practice. It is not uncommon in smaller, regional and rural hospitals for there to be no physician on a floor. The nurses are literally running everything and we will phone a doc in the middle of the night if we need new orders. In one hospital I worked in *Orange County, California* (hardly a rural area), they had one doc on night shift in the ED and that was it. We called him when we needed him to pronounce a patient with a DNR, but I literally watched this patient die of a STEMI (heart attack) and did all the post-mortem care with no doc around. It's not uncommon. Watch the Covid ICU videos I posted. The docs will be the first to tell you who runs the units.

So again, we need nurses with a very high degree of education relevant to their scope of practice, which has become quite complex and requires critical thinking and a thorough understanding of foundational scientific subjects. We don't need to be trained as physicians, but for the love of G-d, people need to know how vaccines work. This is madness. So, yeah, I am not sad to see the vax refusers go. 

I know someone who is a NP (with some health problems that make him higher risk for Covid) who had just gotten his first jab in September.  I haven't had a conversation with him to understand his reason.  But it wasn't relative lack of education.

That said, I assume lack of education is indeed a factor in this and other health issues in the US.

[SKL]

16 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

No, the danger is for older people, not under 65.  Considering how many people take things like ibuprofen, taking a tiny dose of aspirin is much less likely to cause a problem than drinking a lot, and eatinh certain things.

You can lessen any pitzntial problem by taking enteric aspirin or taking it with food.

Sorry, you are right, it is for people over 60.

However, I think it is still relevant for the PP who I think is around my age.  🙂

Edited October 17, 2021 by SKL