Quarantine and "virtual twins."

[SKL]

My kids are both 14yo 9th graders.  They do almost everything together, but not quite everything.  They are not genetically related.

Kid1 has been quarantined because she sat within x feet of a kid with Covid at school.  The official exposure date was yesterday.

Kid2 is not quarantined.  I'm fine with that, but I want to make sure Kid2 doesn't end up with a quarantine tacked onto Kid1's quarantine, i.e., the family in essential lockdown for more than 2 weeks.

Keeping them apart for nearly 2 weeks might not be realistic.  They share almost everything, do the same homework together, and are just used to a lot of closeness.

I have some specific questions, and beyond that, am open to hearing advice.

1) Assume the "exposure" was 4/19-4/20.  IF kid1 gets Covid, when does she start being contagious?

2) IF kid1 gets Covid, what is the time range within which she would likely get a positive Covid test (either type)?

3) IF Kid2 gets Covid from Kid1, when does she start being contagious?

4) IF kid2 gets Covid from Kid1, what is the time range within which she would likely get a positive Covid test (either type)?

[scholastica]

1) When one of our priests contracted Covid, he was told he wasn’t contagious for at least the first 60 hours after exposure. Don’t know if that’s true or not

2) they say to wait 5 days from exposure to test if you are asymptomatic 

3) see the answer to 1

4) 5-14 days

[ktgrok]

22 minutes ago, SKL said:

My kids are both 14yo 9th graders.  They do almost everything together, but not quite everything.  They are not genetically related.

Kid1 has been quarantined because she sat within x feet of a kid with Covid at school.  The official exposure date was yesterday.

Kid2 is not quarantined.  I'm fine with that, but I want to make sure Kid2 doesn't end up with a quarantine tacked onto Kid1's quarantine, i.e., the family in essential lockdown for more than 2 weeks.

Keeping them apart for nearly 2 weeks might not be realistic.  They share almost everything, do the same homework together, and are just used to a lot of closeness.

I have some specific questions, and beyond that, am open to hearing advice.

1) Assume the "exposure" was 4/19-4/20.  IF kid1 gets Covid, when does she start being contagious?

2) IF kid1 gets Covid, what is the time range within which she would likely get a positive Covid test (either type)?

3) IF Kid2 gets Covid from Kid1, when does she start being contagious?

4) IF kid2 gets Covid from Kid1, what is the time range within which she would likely get a positive Covid test (either type)?

1. We don't know, and especially since we don't know when actual exposure started with kid at school, you know?

2. Almost positive they say to wait 5 days after exposure to test. 

 

[SKL]

16 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

1. We don't know, and especially since we don't know when actual exposure started with kid at school, you know?

 

The school nurse said something about shedding virus within 48 hours of ... [I don't remember - a positive test?] ... she said it didn't matter if my kid was exposed prior to the weekend.  (My kid and Covid kid weren't together over the weekend.)

She may have just been talking about the quarantine rules vs. actual risk of spread.  I don't know for sure.

Edited April 21, 2021 by SKL

[mommyoffive]

I don't know all the update rules on all of this.  But I am sending some positive thoughts to your girls.  I hope they stay negative and symptom free.  

[SKL]

So I'm thinking of getting Kid1 a Covid test on Saturday, but would there be any point getting Kid2 a test on Saturday also?  (Or me for that matter?)  Or wait until we see the results from Kid1 and give it a couple days after that (if Kid1 is positive)??

[Pam in CT]

Sorry you're all in this.

Guidance here has been to PCR test ~4 days from suspected exposure. 

Hope the results come back quickly. Around here the turnaround ranges from 4 hours (my youngest's boarding school, which tests everyone weekly and has access to the lab facilities at a quite-close research hospital as part of a study they're conducting) to up to 4 days (sigh, it's hardly worth it at that point) at the free community health center, with private pay centers somewhere in between.  Our PCP offers rapid (<2 hour) result antigen test which is covered by insurance, but that's less reliable.

[Spryte]

Does this help at all?  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/quarantine.html
 

Our area recommends following one of the “local” options listed.  7 days quarantine with a negative test on day 5 or later.  They specify the better test.  Or 10 days with no test.  The CDC still says 14 days, so we sort of modified it when we had a potential exposure and did 10 days more isolated, then 4 more masking in the house. But that was an elderly adult who doesn’t *need* to leave the house.  With a kid - I’d be getting that test and trying to reduce the quarantine period.

I would probably ask the nurse if your girl should quarantine at home or isolate at home.  Isolating is really hard.  And for clarification on anything you missed.

Wishing you negative tests! I hope no one gets sick.  

 

[The Governess]

I agree with the others. I would test at 5 days after exposure unless she shows symptoms before that. If she is negative, no one else needs to test. If she is positive, you and other dd should test as soon as you get those positive results. 
 

If you want to be extra cautious, you could test again at day 10 just to be safe since kids are likely to be asymptomatic. 
 

When dh had Covid, I went back to work a week after his fever was gone. The rest of us got tested when his symptoms showed up (negative) and again 5 days later (also negative). We quarantined a total of 10 days (he only had a fever for 2 days). He isolated and no one else in the family got it.
 

Not sure about your area, but test results where I live are coming back next day now, which is really nice.

[vonfirmath]

My daughter (age 9) had an exposure earlier this year (January) -- though slightly different circumstance. We found out on Monday and the last day the kid had been at school was the Wednesday previous. They quarantined the whole class anyway (And no one in her class got it).  At home, for the first part of the quarantine, we stayed extra on top of NOT sharing cups. Washing hands. Her and her brother not playing right on top of each other in each others faces. But by the end we had slacked off because we were pretty unconcerned (And because its HARD to keep up that level of on top of it). Continuing to quarantine to finish the time out. But that was it.

[SKL]

Everyone IRL seems to recommend against testing unless we have symptoms.  I guess the concern is that if she tests positive, it gets reported to the G-man, and various things follow from that which may hurt more than help.  And it seems more likely to increase than decrease our quarantine time.

So we'll see how it goes.  Maybe I'll do another antibody test after some time passes, because I would like to know if they acquire some immunity.

Does anyone know how long it takes for antibodies to show up after a Covid infection?

The other thing I'm wondering about is how this impacts my vax plans.  You're not supposed to get the vax if you might have Covid.  How am I supposed to know if I have Covid unless I get myself tested ....

[ktgrok]

People say not to get tested because a positive result is inconvenient. But that same positive result if vital information in stopping the spread. People just don't care in a lot of places. 

You need to have DS#1 tested because if he is positive, even without symptoms, that means DS #2 could have it. And be spreading it if he goes back to school, etc. Same with you for that matter. 

But no one wants to bother with all that. 

[kirstenhill]

7 hours ago, SKL said:

Everyone IRL seems to recommend against testing unless we have symptoms.  I guess the concern is that if she tests positive, it gets reported to the G-man, and various things follow from that which may hurt more than help.  And it seems more likely to increase than decrease our quarantine time.

So we'll see how it goes.  Maybe I'll do another antibody test after some time passes, because I would like to know if they acquire some immunity.

Does anyone know how long it takes for antibodies to show up after a Covid infection?

The other thing I'm wondering about is how this impacts my vax plans.  You're not supposed to get the vax if you might have Covid.  How am I supposed to know if I have Covid unless I get myself tested ....

There are over the counter Covid tests available now. Not as accurate as pcr of course, but an easy first step with no reporting to anyone:

https://news.walgreens.com/press-releases/walgreens-makes-abbotts-binaxnow-covid-19-self-test-available-over-counter-at-stores-nationwide.htm

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, kirstenhill said:

There are over the counter Covid tests available now. Not as accurate as pcr of course, but an easy first step with no reporting to anyone:

https://news.walgreens.com/press-releases/walgreens-makes-abbotts-binaxnow-covid-19-self-test-available-over-counter-at-stores-nationwide.htm

I looked into some of them, and it isn't clear but seems they may still involve reporting to the government, or at least I can't confirm that they don't.  Also, from what I've seen, they are not actually in stock.  But maybe they will be soon.

[Innisfree]

7 hours ago, SKL said:

  I guess the concern is that if she tests positive, it gets reported to the G-man, and various things follow from that which may hurt more than help.  And it seems more likely to increase than decrease our quarantine time.

I'm not clear on what could hurt more than help, except by requiring more quarantine time. 

If more quarantine time is advised, then of course that would inconvenience you all. But it might prevent exposure to someone who would be harmed in a much more serious way, and help tamp down spread and further mutations.

I mean-- I know you have chosen to get vaccinated yourself, despite not being personally concerned about getting covid, because you understand the risks to other people. Is this really any different? 

The only way to end this is for all of us to accept some inconvenience by staying home when exposed, getting tested, and getting vaccinated if we can. 

[kirstenhill]

15 minutes ago, SKL said:

I looked into some of them, and it isn't clear but seems they may still involve reporting to the government, or at least I can't confirm that they don't.  Also, from what I've seen, they are not actually in stock.  But maybe they will be soon.

The one I linked to is in stock near me, but YMMV of course.   It's my understanding at least for that test, that positive results are encouraged to be self-reported, so no need to report if you choose not to.
 

[SKL]

22 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

I mean-- I know you have chosen to get vaccinated yourself, despite not being personally concerned about getting covid, because you understand the risks to other people. Is this really any different?

The difference is that my getting vaxed doesn't restrict the actions of anyone but myself.  I don't know all the details about quarantine rules etc., but there is an understanding that others outside my family could be restricted if I have a positive test, even if they are not at serious risk.  For example, people who already have antibodies / been at least partially vaxed / been careful about contact.

[Starr]

I think quarantining must be really difficult and a big pain and I'm really sorry you have to go through this.  The only thing we have to go on for the community is testing and quarantining. The policies are based on testing and exposure. The design isn't for everyone to sort it out for themselves. You're left with following your county/state guidelines or doing whatever you want and hoping it's okay. 

[Innisfree]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

The difference is that my getting vaxed doesn't restrict the actions of anyone but myself.  I don't know all the details about quarantine rules etc., but there is an understanding that others outside my family could be restricted if I have a positive test, even if they are not at serious risk.  For example, people who already have antibodies / been at least partially vaxed / been careful about contact.

Yeah, I can see that complicates things. There are people in my family who wouldn't welcome news that they needed to quarantine, also.

On the flip side, there's this post from @SeaConquest in the pep talk thread.

Quote

The part that people don't understand is that the nice friendly old Wuhan Covid that they came to know and love (yes, I am being cheeky about that part) is no more. If you had Covid before March of this year, you likely had Wuhan Covid. Going forward, if you have Covid, you aren't getting Wuhan Covid, you are getting B117 (the British variant), B1351 (the South African variant), P1 (the Brazilian variant), or B1427/B1429 (the California variants, which is what crushed us). These are variants of concern that have outcompeted the old Wuhan Covid because they are more transmissible and, in some cases, more lethal (because monoclonal antibody treatments or current vaccines don't work as well against them) or cause more morbidity because their mutations make them easier to spread throughout the body (for example, easier to cross the blood brain barrier -- no bueno).

So, the more Covid that we allow to roam free in the population, the more likely it is that Covid will find ways to mutate to evade our treatments. It's a cat and mouse game and time is of the essence with a rapidly evolving virus. The answer isn't to throw our hands up in the air and just let it kill people. The answer is to reach herd immunity as quickly as possible through vaccination, which is a much quicker and more durable immunity that DOESN'T REQUIRE PEOPLE TO DIE TO REACH IT. And all of this anti-vax misinformation, which we know is being fed by US adversaries (primarily Russian bots: https://www.brandeis.edu/now/2020/november/social-media-vaccine-disinformation.html) is making it very difficult for us to do that because people don't understand that they are not just harming themselves, they are harming all of us, furthering the objectives of our adversaries (who want to see in-fighting and sew distrust), and making this pandemic go on and on when they choose not to vaccinate. Unless you have a legitimate medical reason not to vaccinate, that has been made in consultation with your physician, skipping these very safe and highly effective vaccines, *at this moment in time*, is simply an incredibly foolish and selfish act, and there is just no way to sugar coat or censor that fact. And, as was mentioned above, to deny that fact is on par with denying the moon landing. The scientific consensus among the immunologists, virologists, and epidemiologists involved in the frontlines of this research is simply that great.

She's actually working in a hospital, watching what happens.

I'm afraid the only way to get out of this situation without running the risk of heading into the hellhole India and Brazil are confronting, is to continue to quarantine if exposed, for the full time needed.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Innisfree

[Penelope]

10 hours ago, SKL said:

Everyone IRL seems to recommend against testing unless we have symptoms.  I guess the concern is that if she tests positive, it gets reported to the G-man, and various things follow from that which may hurt more than help.  And it seems more likely to increase than decrease our quarantine time.

So we'll see how it goes.  Maybe I'll do another antibody test after some time passes, because I would like to know if they acquire some immunity.

Does anyone know how long it takes for antibodies to show up after a Covid infection?

The other thing I'm wondering about is how this impacts my vax plans.  You're not supposed to get the vax if you might have Covid.  How am I supposed to know if I have Covid unless I get myself tested ....

I would wait three or four weeks before checking antibodies to make sure they show up if present. 

As to whether you might have Covid, the way to tell if you even have had an exposure is to test your exposed teen on day 5-7. 
It is unlikely that you would all three be completely asymptomatic and all three have Covid, because asymptomatic people in studies have not often transmitted it to others in the household. 

So just test the exposed person. Beyond protecting others, a personal benefit to doing so is that not everyone who gets it later shows up with antibodies, as no test is perfect, and some develop cell-mediated immunity without forming antibodies. When vaccines are approve for this age group, knowing that someone has already had the infection may be useful information.
 

 

[SKL]

Ugh ... unrelated to this thread, but I just rescheduled my pup's grooming appointment and the groomer said she just lost an aunt to Covid - and the aunt had been vaccinated.  As if things weren't crazy enough.

[Storygirl]

I have virtual twins (though we never called them that) who are ninth graders, plus a tenth grader. DD15 was quarantined from school at the end of January, due to exposure to a friend at the lunch table. DD had no symptoms, and we did not have her tested. Her brothers and the rest of the household did not have to quarantine, so they continued to go to school. No one developed any symptoms. We followed the guidance from our local health department.

While at home, DD spent most of her time in her room, away from others. When she was with others, we all wore masks. She ate in the dining room, while we ate in the kitchen, so she had meals with us, but at a long distance.

We did not avoid testing her for any certain reason. We have had all of the other people in our house tested at one time or another, for one reason or another, so we are not anti-testing. We just followed the quarantine protocols, which did not suggest testing for her. I can understand why you would be wondering whether you should do it. You could call your local health department and ask for advice.