Home-School OR Public School Discussion

[HomeSchool44]

Hello parents!

I'm doing research on some pros and cons of home-schooling. The one thing I'm most concerned about is the lack of social interaction. Can anyone provide some insight into this? I was always in the mind that education for our children should by a hybrid of public school and home learning. What are some of your thoughts about this? I know there are a lot of article onlines, but I'm just looking for some personal experience and opinions. Thank you!

[Shoeless]

Are you doing research for an academic purpose or research for your own family? Do you have soon-to-be school age children? 

If you spend some time reading threads on here, you'll see lots and lots and LOTS of posts discussion all of the ways that homeschoolers socialize. 

[importswim]

I just searched google and came up with LOTS of articles. Search "homeschoolers lack of social interaction" and they'll all pop right up.

[SoCal_Bear]

Honestly, outside of this season of Covid, we have to turn down social opportunties otherwise we would never get any schooling done. It's pretty much a non-issue for us.

[twovetteslater]

Your location will have influence on whether you have problems with finding other homeschoolers, activities, etc. We're extremely rural, homeschooling is not the norm, not encouraged, etc. If you're in a city or suburbs to a big metro area, you should have no difficulties finding other homeschoolers, social activities, etc.

[Stayathome]

I was homeschooled and I feel like there wasn't enough social interaction with other kids from public schools. It was always the same group of homeschooled kids so I was never exposed to different ways of thinking/cultures etc. Personally, I would not homeschool my kids given my experiences. 

[Stayathome]

I feel like there wasn't enough social interaction with other kids from public schools. It was always the same group of homeschooled kids so they were never exposed to different ways thinking/cultures etc. I'm starting to consider a hybrid of having them go to a public school while I teach them other things at home. 

[lewelma]

Homeschoolers get the social interaction that they seek.  If you stay at home all day every day, your kids will only have siblings as friends. If you go to only homeschool activities, your kids will only have homeschool friends. If you also do community activities, they will also have community friends. 

Check out my siggy to see what my younger boy has decided to do every week. Other more introverted kids would desire less. Homeschooling allows you to tailor your interaction level to your own desires. 

[caffeineandbooks]

I'm a bit suss on this thread.  OP has no other posts and addresses us "Hello parents", as though perhaps they are not a parent.

Then another person with no other posts, @Stayathome, posts that they would not homeschool because they didn't get enough social exposure (which begs the question, why are they now registered on a homeschool site?).

Apologies to both posters if the posts are legit, but it just sounds like trolling to me.

[lewelma]

I thought the same. But gave an honest answer. I guess we wait and see the OP's response. 

[HomeSchool44]

50 minutes ago, caffeineandbooks said:

I'm a bit suss on this thread.  OP has no other posts and addresses us "Hello parents", as though perhaps they are not a parent.

Then another person with no other posts, @Stayathome, posts that they would not homeschool because they didn't get enough social exposure (which begs the question, why are they now registered on a homeschool site?).

Apologies to both posters if the posts are legit, but it just sounds like trolling to me.

Hi sorry I should of gave more context! I'm not a parent by all means. I'm a student just doing research on the topic and I'm trying to get some first-hand opinions on the matter. I thought this would be an appropriate place to ask the question and I apologize if it is not. Thank you all for your responses this has gave me some great insight!

[HomeSchool44]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

Homeschoolers get the social interaction that they seek.  If you stay at home all day every day, your kids will only have siblings as friends. If you go to only homeschool activities, your kids will only have homeschool friends. If you also do community activities, they will also have community friends. 

Check out my siggy to see what my younger boy has decided to do every week. Other more introverted kids would desire less. Homeschooling allows you to tailor your interaction level to your own desires. 

If you don't mind sharing I'm wondering if you were personally affected by the Covid-19 pandemic? If so what were some ways you still facilitated your son's social interactions during the lockdown?

[HomeSchool44]

3 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Are you doing research for an academic purpose or research for your own family? Do you have soon-to-be school age children? 

If you spend some time reading threads on here, you'll see lots and lots and LOTS of posts discussion all of the ways that homeschoolers socialize. 

This is for an academic purpose. I was hoping to get some first-hand knowledge and experiences from parents who are actually home-schooling their children.

[HomeSchool44]

1 hour ago, Stayathome said:

I was homeschooled and I feel like there wasn't enough social interaction with other kids from public schools. It was always the same group of homeschooled kids so I was never exposed to different ways of thinking/cultures etc. Personally, I would not homeschool my kids given my experiences. 

Do you think maybe having a better plan to facilitate social interactions would have made your home-schooling experience better?

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, HomeSchool44 said:

If you don't mind sharing I'm wondering if you were personally affected by the Covid-19 pandemic? If so what were some ways you still facilitated your son's social interactions during the lockdown?

When we went into a 7 week super strict lockdown and during that time both of my boys kept up with their friend groups via zoom. My younger boy's D&D night and drama club were also done online. But because we are in New Zealand, we have not had covid here since May, so all of his activities have been back to normal for many months.

Something I think you are missing is that social interaction gained through school is not the same as social interaction typical to homeschoolers.  School kids are age segregated and homeschoolers are not. My younger boy's swimming has a 30 minute lesson and then 1.5 hours playing in the pool. One of his favorite friends is 6 (he is 17) and he also has quite a few 10-12 year old friends there. My older boy was in a community martial arts class where he was the only child. He socialized with people age 18 to 80.  What is great about socializing with multiple ages is that kids learn from the older kids/adults but also act as role models for the younger kids. In general, homeschoolers who choose to find social outlet for their kids (which is most homeschoolers) have kids who are better socialized than school kids because their children don't face strong peer pressure because same aged peers are not their focus. This is a more nuanced question for your academic research. What is the impact of multi aged peer groups on homeschoolers vs same aged peer groups of school children? Socialization is different for homeschoolers, not lesser.  

Edited December 11, 2020 by lewelma

[Not_a_Number]

It's an interesting question. I don't think it's as cut and dried as people make it out to be... 

DD8 went to preschool and kindergarten, and then we pulled her out to homeschool her for academic reasons. Before the pandemic, her social calendar was VERY busy -- we were at our local homeschool center 4 days a week, we had swimming, we had gymnastics, we had Hebrew School, and we also occasionally went to park meet ups. On paper, it was a lot. 

However, I did find that it was harder for DD8 to make tight friends than it was when she was in kindergarten. Part of it was for a positive reason: she was with her family more, and her family filled more of her social needs than it did when she was in school. However, part of it was for a negative reason: she didn't spend as much time with any given kid as she did when she was in school, and since DD8 is a creature of habit, that translated to less close friendships. 

Anyway, I did find that there were challenges with socializing. Not insurmountable challenges, but ones I didn't necessarily expect when we started out. 

[lewelma]

8 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

she didn't spend as much time with any given kid as she did when she was in school,

Not really in response to you NaN, more to help OP.....The key for us was to find a social activity that met each week that had a similar set of kids, and to make sure that they were generally just for play and not an organized activity (art class, museum visit, swimming class, etc). This allowed my ds to make friends within about 3 months, as long as the weekly activity was for about 3 hours. Problem is that not all localities have these kinds of activities, so sometimes you have to make them yourselves, and not all homeschool mums have the time nor the energy to do it. In my experience, about 10% of homeschoolers that have posted on this board over the years *really* struggle to find social outlets for their kids, and another 20% find it to be a chore and somewhat difficult. The remaining 70% are like me, too many options available, so we have to forgo things that look fun because we actually have to get some work done. 

[kiwik]

5 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

It's an interesting question. I don't think it's as cut and dried as people make it out to be... 

DD8 went to preschool and kindergarten, and then we pulled her out to homeschool her for academic reasons. Before the pandemic, her social calendar was VERY busy -- we were at our local homeschool center 4 days a week, we had swimming, we had gymnastics, we had Hebrew School, and we also occasionally went to park meet ups. On paper, it was a lot. 

However, I did find that it was harder for DD8 to make tight friends than it was when she was in kindergarten. Part of it was for a positive reason: she was with her family more, and her family filled more of her social needs than it did when she was in school. However, part of it was for a negative reason: she didn't spend as much time with any given kid as she did when she was in school, and since DD8 is a creature of habit, that translated to less close friendships. 

Anyway, I did find that there were challenges with socializing. Not insurmountable challenges, but ones I didn't necessarily expect when we started out. 

Kids make friends very easily when they are young -by 8 they are starting to be a bit more selective.  Home Schooling may just be coincidental.

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, kiwik said:

Kids make friends very easily when they are young -by 8 they are starting to be a bit more selective.  Home Schooling may just be coincidental.

Given that we started at 6 and it was consecutive, I doubt it.

We love homeschooling and I’m not knocking it. But the socializing has been trickier than in school for us.

[Not_a_Number]

6 hours ago, lewelma said:

Not really in response to you NaN, more to help OP.....The key for us was to find a social activity that met each week that had a similar set of kids, and to make sure that they were generally just for play and not an organized activity (art class, museum visit, swimming class, etc). This allowed my ds to make friends within about 3 months, as long as the weekly activity was for about 3 hours. Problem is that not all localities have these kinds of activities, so sometimes you have to make them yourselves, and not all homeschool mums have the time nor the energy to do it. In my experience, about 10% of homeschoolers that have posted on this board over the years *really* struggle to find social outlets for their kids, and another 20% find it to be a chore and somewhat difficult. The remaining 70% are like me, too many options available, so we have to forgo things that look fun because we actually have to get some work done. 

Yeah, we didn’t struggle, and there were  tons of activities. The lack of consistency really did make things harder, though. 

[Clemsondana]

I would expect answers to be different for every family.  For us, we had some social struggles early but we had also just moved to the area and were sorting ourselves out on multiple fronts.  But, at this point, my kids have co-op friends that they have seen once/week during the school year for many years.  Some are the sort of friends who message during the week, and those that my kids also do science competitions with are friends that, during normal times, see a lot of each other.  There are kids at co-op who also see each other regularly outside of co-op, but that's based on either having a common interest/activity (like Science Olympiad is for my kids) or living in close proximity (my kids often make friends with kids who aren't especially close by, alas).  Since our SO team typically competes in a few invitationals, as the kids get older we have these road trips together, too.  The core group of kids who have traveled to many invitationals and also to nationals twice has formed strong connections.  During the pandemic, some of these activities were disrupted while other kids messaged through various methods.  Our SO team has a slack channel, so those kids send short messages to each other all the time and when things were most locked down our coach organized a weekly Trivia Night.  

We also have long-term...friendly people?  Casual friends?  Strong acquaintances?  from extracurriculars like sports teams and church, the same as other people.  Homeschoolers may play on a homeschool team, similar to kids playing on a school team, or they may play on public school teams, club teams, and travel teams...along with kids from other schooling backgrounds.  We have done, and know homeschoolers who do, all of these.  Some interactions may develop into deeper friendships and others may stay casual or seasonal (whether with the sports season, or for a season of life).  This doesn't seem different from what I observe among families with kids in public or private schools, or from my own childhood.  As for how the pandemic has affected it, this will vary by location.  Here, many activities were/are running, although differently.  For instance, there have been sports practices where only the athletes were allowed inside.  Depending on the team, it has meant that sometimes it is less social for the adults since we just drop off and then pick up, while in other situations, when we already knew some of the families, we made plans to meet and the siblings rode bikes in the parking lot and the moms walked while the athletes practiced.  

I would imagine that for some homeschoolers the pandemic has been less of an issue - their education was less disrupted and they already had methods of communication worked out - groupme groups or slack boards or text groups - since they didn't expect to see each other at school pick-up every day.  For others who depended on more casual meet-ups or who are in places where everything is shut down completely, it may have been harder because their kids don't have school-scheduled zoom for a bit of online social time.  I don't think there is any one thing that can be said about whether it's been harder or easier, better or worse, to be a homeschooler compared to any other schooling option. 

[EKS]

We were very fortunate to have a public homeschool support program that met twice a week for three hours at a time.  This provided a community for my kids as well as me that park classes could never replicate. 

(Park classes run for maybe an hour once per week and are based on structured activities that kids are supposed to attend to.  This makes it awfully difficult to make friends, so kids tend to stick with the friends that they already have from school.  The classes also only run for 6-10 weeks--again, not really enough time to form a community.)  

Unfortunately, the program only went from K-8, and the only game in town for older teens is the public high school.  My older son chose not to attend and had no real friends in high school, but the younger one attended part time and it was the perfect solution.

[8filltheheart]

19 hours ago, HomeSchool44 said:

Hello parents!

I'm doing research on some pros and cons of home-schooling. The one thing I'm most concerned about is the lack of social interaction. Can anyone provide some insight into this? I was always in the mind that education for our children should by a hybrid of public school and home learning. What are some of your thoughts about this? I know there are a lot of article onlines, but I'm just looking for some personal experience and opinions. Thank you!

 

16 hours ago, Stayathome said:

I was homeschooled and I feel like there wasn't enough social interaction with other kids from public schools. It was always the same group of homeschooled kids so I was never exposed to different ways of thinking/cultures etc. Personally, I would not homeschool my kids given my experiences. 

 

16 hours ago, Stayathome said:

I feel like there wasn't enough social interaction with other kids from public schools. It was always the same group of homeschooled kids so they were never exposed to different ways thinking/cultures etc. I'm starting to consider a hybrid of having them go to a public school while I teach them other things at home. 

 

15 hours ago, HomeSchool44 said:

Hi sorry I should of gave more context! I'm not a parent by all means. I'm a student just doing research on the topic and I'm trying to get some first-hand opinions on the matter. I thought this would be an appropriate place to ask the question and I apologize if it is not. Thank you all for your responses this has gave me some great insight!

100% troll.

Homeschooling has been around for decades now (I have been doing it for almost 3).  Homeschool kids graduate and go on to perfectly normal, productive adult lives.  The entire socialization question is bogus and been refuted time and again.  Are there isolated incidents of abnormal lifestyles?  Yes.  Just like in kids that go to ps and private.  Dysfunction exists across all spectrums.  

Don't feed the troll.

[kiwik]

On 12/12/2020 at 1:18 AM, Not_a_Number said:

Given that we started at 6 and it was consecutive, I doubt it.

We love homeschooling and I’m not knocking it. But the socializing has been trickier than in school for us.

I think I thought you were someone else.  My homeschooled kid and I aren't that social.  He is starting after 3 years to think he might like to meet more kids 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, kiwik said:

I think I thought you were someone else.  My homeschooled kid and I aren't that social.  He is starting after 3 years to think he might like to meet more kids 

We aren't that social, either 🙂. That's part of the problem for us -- DD8 is a creature of habit and had an easier time maintaining friendships when they involved seeing people every day. 

I'm like that, too -- I found it easier to keep in touch with people I was thrown together with a lot. My best friends are people I lived with/worked with/had kids in preschool with. It was hard to put in the energy to develop the friendship otherwise. 

[PeterPan]

On 12/10/2020 at 10:25 PM, HomeSchool44 said:

This is for an academic purpose. I was hoping to get some first-hand knowledge and experiences from parents who are actually home-schooling their children.

Might get farther if you were just honest. What is the information for? Who are you and why do you need it? 

We have academics come around, but they're honest about who they are.

[Ellie]

Why would you imagine that homeschooled children lack social interaction?

Why would you imagine that the purpose of the classroom is to have social interaction?

Why would you imagine that there is value in the scant meaningful interaction that occurs in the classroom than the actual real-life social interactions that homeschooled children experience?

Classroom interaction: six or more hours a day with the same group of people, day after day, for nine months, people who are more or less the same age pooling their ignorance and causing peer pressure, where there are actually few really valuable, personal, one-on-one interactions because, you know, it's school, and the children will get in trouble tor talking during class.

Homeschool interaction: daily interactions with people of different ages (family members), ability to have long conversations with others, a great deal of adult interaction, which is how children learn to be adults, often interacting with the diverse people in the community.

You probably don't know that socialization is the number one criticism by ignorant outsiders of homeschooling--not whether the children will be educated, not whether they will be able to be functioning, literate adults, but socialization. Frankly, we're all kind of tired of it.

[theelfqueen]

I'd bet my homeschooled teen (who is a solo homeschooler- no siblings homeschooled at this point) has more contact with more people of all ages than most high school students and a more varied experience.... because homeschooling opens doors to explore interests and get involved in things not really compatible with a public school schedule. 

Online Japanese class weekly with students from around the country. (Local high schools only offer French and Spanish)

Robotics team at a local high school (currently online). 

1 afternoon a week spent in the smithy with other students and adult instructors. (Just certified as an Apprentice Level 2 Blacksmith) (~4 Hours)

1 morning a week at the airfield flying planes - 2 other students in his group and 3 instructors. Group of 12 students when they do groundschool . Will solo in a glider before he is 16. (~4 Hours)

Karate classes 2-5 times a week (and during non pandemic times assists with the karate tots once a week). Average 3 classes most weeks. 

 Volunteer at WWII museum working closely with a variety of adult mentors and guests. (~4 hours)

Plays D&D 1 or 2 times per week (currenty online). (Also other online and live gaming depending on the times) 

In the past, my teens have participated in a one day a week homeschool tutorial co-op and taken a variety of classes (including art, academic, cooking, theater and music classes). They've been in scouts and church youth groups and gaming groups...they've been competitive martial artists and archers. They've played instruments in bands and ensembles. They volunteer regularly in our community (food banks, homeless shelters, childrens organizations). My middle son did two years of college as a homeschooler, allowing him to graduate high school with two television production certifications and two internships under his belt. When they studied geology we spent 3 weeks camping all over Utah and Arizona and Colorado. When they studied British history and literature  - we travelled to the UK and Ireland. 

So yeah, they aren't sitting in a classroom with twenty other kids all during the day, and socializing during passing periods... they aren't exactly isolated in the basement either. We call it homeschooling but it also allows us to learn in the real world. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by theelfqueen

[Not_a_Number]

I find the levels of defensiveness about this issue in the homeschool community fascinating. It's like homeschooling needs to have no drawbacks at all for it to be worthwhile. 

I have the confidence that we made the right decision to homeschool, whether we find socialization more challenging or not. DD8 thrives on being homeschooled. She learns more. She has more of a chance to read and indulge her own interests. She gets to build a closer relationship with her sister than she would otherwise. There are many, many good things. 

But it's hard for me to believe we're the only ones who found that closer friends were easier to make in the context of school. Not because classes are such a good time to socialize (they aren't), but because people do mostly make friends with people they are often thrown together with. I'm the same way myself -- my good friends have been classmates and fellow moms: people I saw all the time and I had a chance to warm up to. I'm sure I'm not alone here. 

[lewelma]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I find the levels of defensiveness about this issue in the homeschool community fascinating.

It depends on how long you have been homeschooling for.  It is the most common question people ask when they first meet you, and after a number of years it gets pretty tiring.  People have been indoctrinated to believe that schools socialize kids and that socialization is the top priority. No one ever asks about how I educate, or how much my kids learn.  

Edited December 14, 2020 by lewelma

[8filltheheart]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I find the levels of defensiveness about this issue in the homeschool community fascinating. It's like homeschooling needs to have no drawbacks at all for it to be worthwhile. 

I have the confidence that we made the right decision to homeschool, whether we find socialization more challenging or not. DD8 thrives on being homeschooled. She learns more. She has more of a chance to read and indulge her own interests. She gets to build a closer relationship with her sister than she would otherwise. There are many, many good things. 

But it's hard for me to believe we're the only ones who found that closer friends were easier to make in the context of school. Not because classes are such a good time to socialize (they aren't), but because people do mostly make friends with people they are often thrown together with. I'm the same way myself -- my good friends have been classmates and fellow moms: people I saw all the time and I had a chance to warm up to. I'm sure I'm not alone here. 

Then I'm guessing you aren't out socializing with other moms and homeschool kids or actively involved in groups that meet regularly with similar interests and personalities.

Why does it need to be a "school classroom" for those connections?  That is what is false.  I don't think stating facts is "being defensive."  It is factual that kids can and do make friends through activities and groups within a larger community.  Equally some kids go to school and sit in a classroom every day and are lonely and don't make friends.  

Covid, otoh, has made a lot of these things difficult, not just for homeschoolers.

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, lewelma said:

It depends on how long you have been homeschooling for.  It is the most common question people ask when they first meet you, and after a number of years it gets pretty tiring.  People have been indoctrinated to believe that schools socialize kids and that socialization is the top priority. No one ever asks about how I educate. How much my kids learn.  

Yeah, it's the most common question I get asked, too. Mostly because people don't think very much about how to educate their children and have nothing to SAY to me about education, frankly. 

I can understand that the question gets tiring, but it's a legitimate issue for lots of people. I had to work very hard to get anything like a normal social life for DD8, and I'm in a city with plenty of opportunities. I shlepped one of her good friends around for 2 days a week so that they saw each other more twice a week, because once a week was really not cutting it for forming a friendship.  And for all that, she had a best friend in kindergarten and hasn't had one ever since. Seeing kids less often hasn't been the same for her. 

Overall, I wouldn't trade it, but I'm not going to pretend it's never been a problem for us because she gets to hang out with more adults... there's value in relationships that are equal, too, because they require more adaptability from the child. (And DD8 has trouble with that, and it's trouble I can't help with nearly as much as friendships with kids around her age can.) 

[lewelma]

7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I wouldn't trade it,

School socialization gets vicious in middle school and high school. I would homeschool my kids just to get them out of that environment even if I was not a great teacher. I tutor a lot of teenagers and it is not pretty what they go through. The peer pressure and bulling can be both overt and subtle, but it is never good for kids. And I would say that many, perhaps around 20%, are actually badly damaged by the experience. 

So when people ask me about socialization, I often just keep my mouth shut because I have no desire to try to match socialization of school, I am running from it. People are so indoctrinated into the benefits of school socialization, they can't step out of their box to see that there is another way. Not an equal way, but a better way. 

[importswim]

39 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I find the levels of defensiveness about this issue in the homeschool community fascinating. It's like homeschooling needs to have no drawbacks at all for it to be worthwhile. 

 

I think you're seeing an extra level of what you call defensiveness here on this post moreso because the OP didn't identify themselves and asked a question that has been answered a lot both in well researched articles online and here, and it's an interesting choice for their first post. 

[theelfqueen]

Accepting the idea that age-segregated classrooms and systems are the proper way to socialize children is an assumption that parents should question.

Being "best friends" with someone because they're your age and you're thrown together a lot may not strengthen kids ability to navigate social networks outside the school system long term. 

High school and middle school interactions are very different from elementary and much more fraught. 

I taught in a 6-12 school ... one where the students had a shared interest base - arts magnet- and it became an environment that really concerned me for the kid's mental health exposures. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, theelfqueen said:

I taught in a 6-12 school ... one where the students had a shared interest base - arts magnet- and it became an environment that really concerned me for the kid's mental health exposures. 

I'm not surprised, but I'd be curious to hear your experiences 🙂 . 

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

We dropped everything for time with friends and "playdates" (I still don't know what to call them and that sounds stupid for junior high and up) lasted more than 3 hours almost every time.  We scheduled time, and events and stuck with long term activities--swim team in particular...especially important to me with an only child.

Fast forward:  kid is 25.  He is still *friends* with three people he met before he was 12, and in good relationship with a bunch of others.  He is still very close to 2 of those friends.  He has one friend he met at middle-school co-op and in touch with a few others.  His best friend is the one he made in private high school, and he is in touch with several others.

The cool thing to ME is that ALL of these people are high quality in terms of their character.  Any of them is welcome at my house.  

That sounds lovely. I'm really hoping we can do something like this for DD4, if not for both of them. DD8 has so far just... not been that bonded with any of the kids. Every time I suggested we have a playdate, she'd ask to have it with someone new, because they hadn't seen all her awesome toys yet 😛 .

It's possible it'll change as she matures, though! It's good to hear that prioritizing social time can lead to lasting friendships 🙂 . 

How old was your kiddo when he met the FIRST of these three good friends? Did he meet any as a super young kid? 

[Clemsondana]

I find the socialization thing to be a weird topic because people's experiences are so varied.  I generally enjoyed the social part of school, and am still in touch with a handful of people.  My husband had a miserable experience.  Locally, we know people in public/private schools whose kids have great social experiences and kids who are bullied and kids who do fine in school but don't really have any good friends there.  We've met lonely homeschoolers and homeschooled social butterflies and homeschoolers who bond with 1, or a small group, of really good friends.  

The best predictor of friendships for kids seems to be having 2 or more things in common - school, or co-op, and also a sport, music group, church group, etc.  But, just doing one thing that meets regularly is sometimes enough.  Following multiple moves, I'm still in irregular contact with the mom friend from when our kids were 2. We met at a mom-and-me swim class and that led to weekly get-togethers at the zoo, park, or children's museum.  It's hard to predict where friendships will come from.  And, some kids don't necessarily want a best friend.  One of mine wasn't bothered when life had more acquaintances than friends - gatherings were more about doing an activity - while for my other it's more about social dynamics.  For kids who generally befriend older or younger people, age-segregated school can be difficult.  For other kids, peers are really important.  I think for one of mine, and maybe both, having different groups is actually helpful.  I've coached code-switching - Shakespearean English is normal for the science nerds, but don't talk like that at the ball field.  It lets kiddos indulge different parts of their personality/interests without being pigeonholed as a nerd or an athlete or a music/theater kid.

[LMD]

4 hours ago, importswim said:

I think you're seeing an extra level of what you call defensiveness here on this post moreso because the OP didn't identify themselves and asked a question that has been answered a lot both in well researched articles online and here, and it's an interesting choice for their first post. 

Yep. Dodgy and entitled. Waltzing in to a community and, with hardly any context, expecting them to answer any question with personal anecdotes on a public forum. 

Homeschool44, you may be totally legit, I have no way of knowing. I suggest that the most helpful way to find answers to your question is to read back over decades of posts here on this topic. You could also read The Well trained Mind or many other homeschooling books. If you still have (better informed) questions then feel free to join the community and participate in the conversations, not just plonk down a question like it's a survey and harvest us for your own benefit. 

[Not_a_Number]

24 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

He's got a quirky sense of humor and he is very intelligent; the ed psych we worked with for testing said when he was about 8 that he had to find ONE friend who really understood him....all it takes is ONE.  Thankfully, the one he met at birth is that guy, and the rest are all totally bonuses.  He's closest to the first and the last friends he made, and his friends have all told me that DS is a great and true friend--he's always there for them.  

Yeah, DD8 is also quite quirky and very bright. Hopefully she finds a really good friend at some point 🙂 . That's an encouraging story; thanks for sharing!! 

[Not_a_Number]

4 hours ago, lewelma said:

School socialization gets vicious in middle school and high school. I would homeschool my kids just to get them out of that environment even if I was not a great teacher. I tutor a lot of teenagers and it is not pretty what they go through. The peer pressure and bulling can be both overt and subtle, but it is never good for kids. And I would say that many, perhaps around 20%, are actually badly damaged by the experience. 

It's a mixed bag, you know? It does depend on the school and on the kid. I actually really enjoyed my middle school; my high school, less so, but I also got exposed to lots of interesting people and interesting things. And I rediscovered my passion for math in school, which was definitely a good thing 🙂.

DH has really good friends from high school and reports learning a lot about people and about being a good friend through those friends. He mostly came to school for the extracurriculars and took college classes in high school, but that was a good mix for him.

I think being in school and knowing that you have the CHOICE to leave is different from being in school and knowing you have no choice, anyway. Lots of kids do want to go to school to meet more kids; a few of the homeschooled teens I know in NYC regret not going to high school, because their friends went off, and they feel lonely.

I'm not arguing for the superiority of school here or anything 🙂 . Just that there are pros and cons to both homeschooling and schools in this regard, from what I've seen. 

[lewelma]

55 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

It's a mixed bag, you know? It does depend on the school and on the kid. I actually really enjoyed my middle school; my high school, less so, but I also got exposed to lots of interesting people and interesting things. And I rediscovered my passion for math in school, which was definitely a good thing 🙂.

Hate to say it, but modern middle and high school is way worse socially than in the past.  Social media is very destructive.  

As I said, about 20% of my students have MAJOR issues associated with school. 3 have been institutionalized or hospitalized for mental health, 1 is into cutting, 2 have eating disorders, 1 cried every day at school in his first year, 1 lived on the street and ate out of dumpsters, and 1 turned to knives to protect himself from bullies. These are rich kids, from good families, attending good schools, and living in a socially cohesive society.  I don't have a random sample, but I only take kids who have asked for a tutor and are willing to work academically. School has not been good to them even though they are willing to work academically.  The social scene at school is tough these days.

Edited December 15, 2020 by lewelma

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Hate to say it, but modern middle and high school is way worse socially than in the past.  Social media is very destructive.  

As I said, about 20% of my students (all rich kids, going to good schools, with lots of support) have MAJOR issues associated with school. Three have been institutionalized or hospitalized for mental health, one is into cutting, 2 have eating disorders, one cried every day at school in his first year, one lived on the street and ate out of dumpsters. Rich kids, good families, good schools, socially cohesive happy NZ.  I don't have a random sample, but I only take kids who have asked for a tutor and are willing to work academically. School has not been good to them.  The social scene at school is tough these days.

You have to remember that I also have a sample from recent times 😉 . My sister also just finished high school. In her case, school was much better than home for her. She had mental health issues related to her parents' messy, messy divorce and school helped. 

She didn't love her school, to be honest. It wasn't a GREAT fit. But it was more like home than anywhere else (well, except maybe living with us, but that wasn't ever going to be allowed by the parents.)  

Edited December 15, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Patty Joanna said:

Do you think that if her home had been safe, or if she had not had mental health issues, this "sample" situation might have been different? 

It might have been, of course. Overall, her school was a good place for her, though -- she discovered her passion for classics in school (her parents weren't going to be able to impart that one!), and one of her teachers was super supportive of her. She's going to major in classics in college 🙂 . 

 

Just now, Patty Joanna said:

I am very often accused--and rightly so!--of basing conclusions on anecdotal (my personal) experience.  I get it.  But I ask, because one sample is being used to make a sweeping assessment, and it might be worth hearing from other people's sample sets.   

I'm not making a sweeping assessment from one case. I also do hear about her friends from her and the social environment at the school in general 🙂 . 

Anyway, I wasn't arguing that it was better for all kids, so there's no generalization to be had here. I was just saying that some kids make the best of it, make good friends, and find a supportive environment at school. And some don't, and I fully support homeschooling kids who have difficult social experiences and no longer want to go to school... 

[Ellie]

7 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

We dropped everything for time with friends and "playdates" (I still don't know what to call them and that sounds stupid for junior high and up) lasted more than 3 hours almost every time.  

 

I don't even know where or when that term was invented. I never heard it used until Facebook, long after my dc were all grown up. We didn't do "play dates." A friend thought it might have come from MOPS groups, and those young mothers went on to homeschool and just kept the term.