24hr fasting anyone??

[PrincessMommy]

 I've gone down the nutritional rabbit hole on YT trying to deal with some of my auto-immune and intestinal issues.  LC has worked for me in the past, but I think I need to step it up a notch from what I'm reading.   I'm tired of being tired and achy all the time.  I'm tired of ending up in the ER every 6 mos.   I started watching YT about Keto and Hashitmotos and discovered that Hashis and gut issues are linked... and then discovered some drs. who promote fasting for health (Dr. Mindy Pelz for instance). 

Anyone done more than intermittent fasting?  I'm talking about 24-48hr fasts for health benefits.   Weight loss is certainly a nice side-benefit, but I'm talking about gut health, etc.    FWIW, I'm not interested in the Carnivore diet (Lion diet??).  I think I'd end up with a colostomy bag if I did that.  I definitely need good veggies for my gut health.

Right now I've been in pain since I had another trip to the ER with Diverticulitus about 2weeks ago.  The pain area has moved from the original site to another site - just basically feeling awful.   Meds have messed up my gut.  Probiotics seems to make me bloat... is that normal?

[PrincessMommy]

38 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

I have an appointment with my dietician tomorrow - I have not had success adding a probiotic after strict elimination diet plans - she suspects I may have a histamine allergy and wants to talk about how to handle that, part of it to include diet modifications, part to include finding the right probiotic. How does your body react to fermented foods in general? Can you tolerate kombucha, yogurt, pickled veggies?
 

So for a short answer, yes, the wrong probiotic can make you bloat (and other things that make it hard to be around people all day!). 

I've never liked pickles or sauerkraut and haven't tried kombutcha because of it.  I do eat yogurt from time to time.    I have been thinking that maybe it's time to hold my nose and eat some pickles.  

Edited September 1, 2020 by PrincessMommy

[Slache]

My body does not like to fast for more than 20 hours. Whole30 fixed my gut. Have you seen the thread about super probiotics? THAT TOOK ME FORTY FIVE MINUTES TO FIND! I'm having lemonade now.

[PrincessMommy]

17 minutes ago, Slache said:

My body does not like to fast for more than 20 hours. Whole30 fixed my gut. Have you seen the thread about super probiotics? THAT TOOK ME FORTY FIVE MINUTES TO FIND! I'm having lemonade now.

No, I had not seen that thread.  Thanks for taking the time to find it.  Very enlightening.  I am taking Floraster right now.  

[Slache]

2 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

No, I had not seen that thread.  Thanks for taking the time to find it.  Very enlightening.  I am taking Floraster right now.  

I'm going to buy the Elixa soon. I was waiting until baby was born, but I was on antibiotics for nearly a year in my 20s and I think that might be the cause of some issues. If not, it's not a major financial loss.

[BeachGal]

2 hours ago, PrincessMommy said:

 I've gone down the nutritional rabbit hole on YT trying to deal with some of my auto-immune and intestinal issues.  LC has worked for me in the past, but I think I need to step it up a notch from what I'm reading.   I'm tired of being tired and achy all the time.  I'm tired of ending up in the ER every 6 mos.   I started watching YT about Keto and Hashitmotos and discovered that Hashis and gut issues are linked... and then discovered some drs. who promote fasting for health (Dr. Mindy Pelz for instance). 

Anyone done more than intermittent fasting?  I'm talking about 24-48hr fasts for health benefits.   Weight loss is certainly a nice side-benefit, but I'm talking about gut health, etc.    FWIW, I'm not interested in the Carnivore diet (Lion diet??).  I think I'd end up with a colostomy bag if I did that.  I definitely need good veggies for my gut health.

Right now I've been in pain since I had another trip to the ER with Diverticulitus about 2weeks ago.  The pain area has moved from the original site to another site - just basically feeling awful.   Meds have messed up my gut.  Probiotics seems to make me bloat... is that normal?

 

A fast is an excellent way to shed the lining of your intestines and rebuild it.

https://news.mit.edu/2018/fasting-boosts-stem-cells-regenerative-capacity-0503

Valter Longo is a researcher who has studied for years the effects of fasting on cancer, autoimmune disease and other health problems. He's at USC and you can find online articles, YouTube interviews and lectures. He also has a book (profits go to research).

Jason Fung is another excellent resource. He has two books as well as an online group.

Anyway, I've been fasting for years. Maybe five? I've done a variety of them for different lengths of time. Nowadays I do a monthly 5-day fast-mimicking diet at the beginning of the month with my husband. We do it for general good health and to (hopefully) keep our cells young-ish. It's easy to do but food prep takes some time.

If you're going to do a one-day water fast or something similar, ideally you'd want to measure your blood sugar and know the signs of hypoglycemia to be safe. For one day, you'd probably be fine if you're not taking any diabetes medications or other medications that could be affected by fasting. Hunger pangs are usually at their worst on days 1 (and 2) but then subside or come in waves. Then, you'd want to carefully break your fast with food that won't upset your intestines too much. It's best to have those ready to eat when you stop your fast. Also important: lots of water, a bit of salt, maybe 1/4 teaspoon or so.

 

 

[PrincessMommy]

39 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

 

A fast is an excellent way to shed the lining of your intestines and rebuild it.

https://news.mit.edu/2018/fasting-boosts-stem-cells-regenerative-capacity-0503

Valter Longo is a researcher who has studied for years the effects of fasting on cancer, autoimmune disease and other health problems. He's at USC and you can find online articles, YouTube interviews and lectures. He also has a book (profits go to research).

Jason Fung is another excellent resource. He has two books as well as an online group.

Anyway, I've been fasting for years. Maybe five? I've done a variety of them for different lengths of time. Nowadays I do a monthly 5-day fast-mimicking diet at the beginning of the month with my husband. We do it for general good health and to (hopefully) keep our cells young-ish. It's easy to do but food prep takes some time.

If you're going to do a one-day water fast or something similar, ideally you'd want to measure your blood sugar and know the signs of hypoglycemia to be safe. For one day, you'd probably be fine if you're not taking any diabetes medications or other medications that could be affected by fasting. Hunger pangs are usually at their worst on days 1 (and 2) but then subside or come in waves. Then, you'd want to carefully break your fast with food that won't upset your intestines too much. It's best to have those ready to eat when you stop your fast. Also important: lots of water, a bit of salt, maybe 1/4 teaspoon or so.

 

 

I stumbled upon Jason Fung and have watched a few interviews/videos with him.  I will look up Valter Longo too.   Thanks for the tips and advice!  

 

Edited to add:  What is a "fast-mimicking" diet?  Is that super low cal (500 or less?).  I used to do the 5/2 diet, but struggled to find my rthythm.  

Edited September 2, 2020 by PrincessMommy

[BeachGal]

1 hour ago, PrincessMommy said:

I stumbled upon Jason Fung and have watched a few interviews/videos with him.  I will look up Valter Longo too.   Thanks for the tips and advice!  

 

Edited to add:  What is a "fast-mimicking" diet?  Is that super low cal (500 or less?).  I used to do the 5/2 diet, but struggled to find my rthythm.  

 

A fast-mimicking diet (FMD) is just a diet with specific macros and calories that has metabolic effects similar to fasting. (5:2 diets do not yield this result.) Valter Longo found that for his cancer patients the water fasting was just too difficult, so he devised and tested a FMD and found the results were pretty close to the water diet. He was measuring certain biomarkers. This diet, ProLon, is sold through USC but it is possible to create your own using a free app like Cronometer. (All profits from ProLon go to research, fwiw.)

All five days the food is vegan.

Day 1: 1100 calories

• roughly 10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbs
• 500 from complex carbohydrates
• 500 from healthy fats
• 25 grams of plant-based protein (100 calories)
• 1 multivitamin/mineral supplement
• 1 omega3/omega 6 supplement
• sugarless tea
• water

Days 2-5: 800 calories

• roughly 9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carbs
• 400 from complex carbohydrates
• 400 from healthy fats
• 1 multivitamin/mineral supplement
• 1 omega3/omega 6 supplement
• sugarless tea
• water

I used Cronometer to create my own meals trying to reach the same calories and percentages as well as high levels of potassium and magnesium. There are also some forums online that share recipes and advice. Reddit has one called FMD.

Edited September 2, 2020 by BeachGal

[Amy in NH]

I've done a 28-day water fast once a year for three years.  I was overweight, so didn't need to worry about going into ketoacidosis/starvation.  The problem with a 24-48 hour fast is that you've just gotten past the hunger and into the regenerative phase of your fast when you quit.  If you decide to do a longer fast, make sure to do a lot of research first.  Add salts/minerals to your water so you don't end up electrolyte imbalanced, etc.  The worst part is the nasty tongue...

Edited September 2, 2020 by Amy in NH

[Katy]

I've been terrible with intermittent fasting since I had kids, but I used to do that for months at a time.  I felt great then, didn't have autoimmune symptoms (except a malar rash), and emotionally felt pretty stable and happy despite it being an extremely stressful time.

Elixa probiotics (4 6-day courses in a row, taken on an empty stomach and followed with yogurt mixed with a tablespoon of potato starch) fixed my antibiotic-induced wheat allergies.

It's common for probiotics to make people feel a bit constipated, or to slow down digestion and change the texture to something a bit stickier, and obviously a bloated feeling might go along with any of that.

[PrincessMommy]

Thank you @BeachGal for that detailed information.  It is very helpful

@Amy in NH 28 day fast - whoa.  That is a long one.   It seems to me that many people who do the 24hr fast are only eating one meal a day  - so consecutive 24 hr fasts.  At least from what little I've learned so far. 

@Katy - I thought probiotics were supposed to help with constipation.  Ugh.  That's the last thing I need right now. 😞 

[Katy]

43 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

Thank you @BeachGal for that detailed information.  It is very helpful

@Amy in NH 28 day fast - whoa.  That is a long one.   It seems to me that many people who do the 24hr fast are only eating one meal a day  - so consecutive 24 hr fasts.  At least from what little I've learned so far. 

@Katy - I thought probiotics were supposed to help with constipation.  Ugh.  That's the last thing I need right now. 😞 

 

Over the long term they do help with constipation, but over the short term they slow things down and help your body extract more nutrients from your food, and many of those probiotics eat the fiber that we can't.

[Slache]

If constipation is an issue my family loves psyllium husk, specifically colon pure from GNC.

[PrincessMommy]

52 minutes ago, Slache said:

If constipation is an issue my family loves psyllium husk, specifically colon pure from GNC.

what do you put it in?  I have some psyllium husk and put it in water and it turned to nasty mush.  It was undrinkable/inedible.  I 've been using Beneifiber but I am worried since it's wheat based.  Everything I run across regarding hashis says to eliminate wheat.    But, it has been a game-changer for my diverticulitus.  

[Slache]

19 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

what do you put it in?  I have some psyllium husk and put it in water and it turned to nasty mush.  It was undrinkable/inedible.  I 've been using Beneifiber but I am worried since it's wheat based.  Everything I run across regarding hashis says to eliminate wheat.    But, it has been a game-changer for my diverticulitus.  

I think people with diverticulitis are not supposed to take psyllium?

I get the citrus flavor, put it in juice or water and drink it immediately. It also comes in pill form. I'm looking in our cabinet and we have equate (Wal-Mart?) Daily Fiber capsules. I've never taken these. Psyllium should not be taken daily, according to the doctor who recommended it to DH. He uses it for constipation and the opposite, I use it twice a day for 5 days every 3 months but I don't get gastrointestinal issues.

[Amy in NH]

1 hour ago, PrincessMommy said:

what do you put it in?  I have some psyllium husk and put it in water and it turned to nasty mush.  It was undrinkable/inedible.  I 've been using Beneifiber but I am worried since it's wheat based.  Everything I run across regarding hashis says to eliminate wheat.    But, it has been a game-changer for my diverticulitus.  

 

I use the psyllium husk capsules because they don't have any sweeteners.

[prairiewindmomma]

Yup. Monthly 24 hour fasts are a religious tradition I have.  I haven't seen any side benefit from gut health.

I did all kinds of elimination diets and other things. Hashimoto's is largely genetic, and TBH, no real amount of anything is going to save your thyroid, IMO.  

Diverticulitis recommends a low fiber diet.  I wouldn't be pushing the psyllium husk capsules.  Heck, I'd even be avoiding strawberries as the little seeds can be irritating.

If I were to point you in a direction, it would be to look at doing the beef broth from the paleo autoimmune protocol in the early days.  I think giving your gut a break and working your way back through food categories one by one may help you figure out triggers and intolerances.  You may need low fodmap foods. You may need to be dairy free. Whatever it is....I think this is the best sort of way to work through that.

But, honestly, I spent years trying to heal myself naturally and I'm really grateful for modern medicine.  I'm on an immunosuppressant and I feel so much better than I did when I lived on air, reverse osmosis water, and organic spinach picked under moonlight, iykwim. 🙂

[PrincessMommy]

16 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yup. Monthly 24 hour fasts are a religious tradition I have.  I haven't seen any side benefit from gut health.

I did all kinds of elimination diets and other things. Hashimoto's is largely genetic, and TBH, no real amount of anything is going to save your thyroid, IMO.  

Diverticulitis recommends a low fiber diet.  I wouldn't be pushing the psyllium husk capsules.  Heck, I'd even be avoiding strawberries as the little seeds can be irritating.

If I were to point you in a direction, it would be to look at doing the beef broth from the paleo autoimmune protocol in the early days.  I think giving your gut a break and working your way back through food categories one by one may help you figure out triggers and intolerances.  You may need low fodmap foods. You may need to be dairy free. Whatever it is....I think this is the best sort of way to work through that.

But, honestly, I spent years trying to heal myself naturally and I'm really grateful for modern medicine.  I'm on an immunosuppressant and I feel so much better than I did when I lived on air, reverse osmosis water, and organic spinach picked under moonlight, iykwim. 🙂

From the research I've been hearing they have found that less than 30%(iirc) of Hashi is genetic and the majority of it is stress hormone related.  I'll see if I can find the study.  Its just that i've been reading and watch so much lately, that I don't know if I can sift through all of it to find that.  Basically said, if a person has had a stress episode, which could include illness, PTSD, difficult pregnancy, etc... they are at greater risk of developing Hashis (and Fibromyalgia).  

The protocol for auto-immune seems to be to try and fix the gut.  So yes, beef broth and elimiation diets to find the triggers.  

Look up Dr. Rutherford and his "Cut through the BS" series-  They are really long, but worth the time.  Esp. the one on Hashis.   He has Hashis, Epstein Barr, and Fibro so he comes at it from the point of view of a patient.   His partner at the practice is the one who does a lot of the research and going through the studies.  Neither seem to be into air, organic spinach, and moonlight either.  I don't know what you're talking about.  

[prairiewindmomma]

I was saying that some natural providers are pushing overly restrictive diets and their own branded supplements as they monetize their advice on how to handle a disease. I spent about a decade trying those things (including getting my amalgam fillings removed, eating GFCF, trying a specialized diet that avoided healthy foods like strawberries, using various supplements/herbs/essential oils, etc.) to no improvement. If natural medicine is such a cure-all, why did it not heal me? 
 

if you want to deep dive into the genetics of autoimmune thyroid disease like Hashimoto’s....https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/87/12/5385/2823576

[Soror]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I was saying that some natural providers are pushing overly restrictive diets and their own branded supplements as they monetize their advice on how to handle a disease. I spent about a decade trying those things (including getting my amalgam fillings removed, eating GFCF, trying a specialized diet that avoided healthy foods like strawberries, using various supplements/herbs/essential oils, etc.) to no improvement. If natural medicine is such a cure-all, why did it not heal me? 
 

if you want to deep dive into the genetics of autoimmune thyroid disease like Hashimoto’s....https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/87/12/5385/2823576

Ya, that, I think most of them are little better than snake oil salesman but I'm a bit jaded. Especially, when the natural community then acts like you must be doing it wrong if you are not healed. I'm just leery of anyone acting like they have got the answers

Also, I keep seeing all of this about fasting but I know Dr. Sims, who specifically studies women in nutrition is not a fan at all for women. Most studies on health, nutrition, fitness, etc are done on men with results then generalized for women but our bodies are not the same. 

[bethben]

On 9/1/2020 at 4:39 PM, PrincessMommy said:

I've never liked pickles or sauerkraut and haven't tried kombutcha because of it.  I do eat yogurt from time to time.    I have been thinking that maybe it's time to hold my nose and eat some pickles.  

You have to find fermented pickles and fermented sauerkraut for gut health.  Bubbies is a brand that sells both.  https://www.culturedfoodlife.com is a good site for recipes for fermented foods.  I personally like kombucha second fermented with fruit juice.  Once your gut changes a bit, the foods you hate now will be stuff you crave later.  I thought Kombucha was gross when I first tried it.  Now, I actually look forward to having a glass. 

[Murphy101]

I fast on *most* Wednesdays and Fridays.  So no food from whenever I fall asleep on Tuesday/Thursday until whenever I have breakfast on Thursday/Saturday. I have been doing this for some time now.  A year? Longer? No quite sure.

My experience and important to know .02:

Hydrate!

It will not offset the bad habits of the other 5 days

Hydrate!

It *usually* doesn’t do much for weight loss either. (Losing 5lbs isn’t really “lost” - it’s either dehydration &/or an empty digestive system and it has always been found the next day for me  LOL)

Hydrate!

It does seem to give the digestive system a rest, which seems to reduce inflammation issues and make it easier for lifestyle changes to have more effect. 

Hydrate!

The best results are when exercise is at a minimum on those days.  So no weights and no ramping the heart rate. I would go on walks, but not nearly as fast paced and far far shorter on those days. Otherwise, it actually over taxes the entire body and can cause more damage.  On days when for whatever I can’t accommodate a less physical day or get the sleep required the night before (6+ hrs at least) - I would have lots of LC veggies only to supply some easily absorbed energy and not feel I have broken my fast.

Hydrate!

Supplements matter. Reducing calories works best when we are not reducing nutrients.

Did I mention you should hydrate? Like LOTS. If you aren’t going through at least 5 8oz glasses of water on those day, I’d suspect you aren’t hydrating enough. And yes I know it’s a lot. On fasting days I sometimes feel like my whole life revolves around refilling my bubba mug and going potty. LOL

[mathnerd]

How does a 24 hour fast work? Any links for me to read about it? I have done intermittent fasting for a while now, but that means that I skip breakfast and eat at my usual time for lunch which is quite late anyway and it works for me. But, I have never tried a 24 hour fast. Thank you.

[PrincessMommy]

15 hours ago, mathnerd said:

How does a 24 hour fast work? Any links for me to read about it? I have done intermittent fasting for a while now, but that means that I skip breakfast and eat at my usual time for lunch which is quite late anyway and it works for me. But, I have never tried a 24 hour fast. Thank you.

Dr. Jason Fung is a good place to start.  Basically it is one meal a day.   Also, I like this simple breakdown - with visual aids - from Dr. Mindy Pelz  that shows what is happening with each fast length.  Sadly, I just saw another video from her where she says studies show OMAD (one meal a day) for certain thyroid patients is not reccomeneded long term (ie: OMAD all week).   Unfortunately, in that video, she didn't provide the study in a link. 

 

[BeachGal]

16 hours ago, mathnerd said:

How does a 24 hour fast work? Any links for me to read about it? I have done intermittent fasting for a while now, but that means that I skip breakfast and eat at my usual time for lunch which is quite late anyway and it works for me. But, I have never tried a 24 hour fast. Thank you.

 

Jason Fung is an MD who has been having his patients try different kinds of fasts that are designed to work with how their bodies respond to fasting. There are many ways to fast and in his two books, he details how to start and fine tune fasts to suit your needs. They're both very good. He also has online information and I think there is still a facebook group.

Valter Longo is a researcher at USC who has been studying the cellular effects of calorie restriction, fasting and fast-mimicking diets on animals and humans for many years, most of his career actually. He has studied the effects of fasting on aging and patients with cancer and autoimmune disease, like MS, that are very interesting. The cancer studies have been replicated with similar results. Basically, fasting induces autophagy, when your body is forced to use, repair or discard bits of lingering, damaged cellular material that causes inflammation. These bits can stick around for a long time wreaking havoc on neighboring, healthy cells.  Then, after the fast is completed and feeding resumes, stem cells pop up along the spinal cord and these stem cells can be used anywhere in your body.

Longo later found that his patients who went on a fast-mimicking diet (FMD) -- a 5-day, vegan diet with specific percentages of fat/carbs/protein and calories -- got results almost as good as those who did water fasting. The FMD is easier to do than water fasting so people are more likely to comply. My husband was often getting migraines during water fasts (probably due to loss of electrolytes) and so we now do this type of dieting once a month. They're just recipes I created using the free Cronometer app.

You can find short PR pieces about Longo's research put out by USC. He has also done two interviews with researcher Rhonda Patrick (Found My Fitness) on You Tube, a Ted Talk and he has a book explaining his research (all proceeds go to research).

If you are interested in cancer and diet, Thomas Seyfried is a researcher worth checking out, too.

[PrincessMommy]

20 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

 

Jason Fung is an MD who has been having his patients try different kinds of fasts that are designed to work with how their bodies respond to fasting. There are many ways to fast and in his two books, he details how to start and fine tune fasts to suit your needs. They're both very good. He also has online information and I think there is still a facebook group.

Valter Longo is a researcher at USC who has been studying the cellular effects of calorie restriction, fasting and fast-mimicking diets on animals and humans for many years, most of his career actually. He has studied the effects of fasting on aging and patients with cancer and autoimmune disease, like MS, that are very interesting. The cancer studies have been replicated with similar results. Basically, fasting induces autophagy, when your body is forced to use, repair or discard bits of lingering, damaged cellular material that causes inflammation. These bits can stick around for a long time wreaking havoc on neighboring, healthy cells.  Then, after the fast is completed and feeding resumes, stem cells pop up along the spinal cord and these stem cells can be used anywhere in your body.

Longo later found that his patients who went on a fast-mimicking diet (FMD) -- a 5-day, vegan diet with specific percentages of fat/carbs/protein and calories -- got results almost as good as those who did water fasting. The FMD is easier to do than water fasting so people are more likely to comply. My husband was often getting migraines during water fasts (probably due to loss of electrolytes) and so we now do this type of dieting once a month. They're just recipes I created using the free Cronometer app.

You can find short PR pieces about Longo's research put out by USC. He has also done two interviews with researcher Rhonda Patrick (Found My Fitness) on You Tube, a Ted Talk and he has a book explaining his research (all proceeds go to research).

If you are interested in cancer and diet, Thomas Seyfried is a researcher worth checking out, too.

I've been reading a bit about this and it sounds very promising.  Since my religious fasts are basically a vegan fast and I feel like I could encorporate FMD more easily during those cycles.

[Sarah0000]

Yes, I have but not really by choice. And it is absolutely possible for an overweight person to have serious side effects from rapid weight loss, but probably just 24 hours is ok. Just be careful because you can still be technically overweight but experience muscle atrophy and heart problems from rapid weight loss.

Anyway, when I have to fast I use half doses of cannabis to calm my intestines. This helps with the nausea from not eating and the pain of intestinal cysts (Crohn's Disease). When you do eat, it helps to eat small frequent meals and wait until all the gas and stuff clears out before eating again.

If you're having immune issues, is there an infusion or something that might help you in addition to diet plans? I had an ostomy for almost three years that I just had reversed (Yay!) but I almost needed it again and was barely able to get back on immunosuppressant infusions in time.