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52 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

maybe it’s just me, lol, but it’s a bit freaky reading this last page of posts, and seeing that Scarlett is online right now, clicking thank you to those ‘defending’ her, all the while not bothering to explain anything. 

Its almost as if she’s getting off on it, or perhaps she knows she’s partly to blame and is trying to make herself feel better?  Either way, I think I’ve had enough of the circus antics. This seems to be much more than a religious drama.

I have thought that sometimes, but it's not any weirder than me reading along and seeing who liked my posts or other posts, I don't think. Just part of the nature of message boards. I could tell this thread was going downhill from about page four when people started speculating about what the specifics *must* be and the, "if you don't tell us, I'm going to assume the worst" comments. Curiosity is a heck of a drug, though, lol.

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1 hour ago, EmseB said:


So, hypothetically, if you wanted to have your wedding a venue you know that your mother cannot go to, that is absolutely fine. It is your choice. However, it is not fair to hang that over your mother's head and be angry that she wouldn't do what you wanted knowing that she couldn't go there. It isn't fair to say, "She could have gone if she really loved me,"

 

1 hour ago, Jaybee said:

 I love my kids with all I am, but if I had one who was trying to manipulate me to do something I felt I couldn't (thankfully, that hasn't arisen thus far), I would have to put a boundary there, 

But we don't know that the truth isn't that she was the one manipulating him, saying he needs to stay in her religion or she won't attend his wedding, interact with him, etc. If he's left the church, and she's chosen to cut him off over that, why isn't that manipulative, rather than him being the one manipulating her by wanting her to attend his wedding? If he is no longer in the JWs, the only way he may be able to have a wedding she could go to would be to cave and go back to her faith. 

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4 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Anger often makes sense. No-one think that son can't feel angry.

I am feeling real angry with my parents right now for things they did 30 years ago; I am, as he is, completely entitled to have my feelings.

Being angry doesn't give anyone - and especially not a young man - the right to dump it all, aggressively, on a woman, even if that woman is mom. 

I agree that the son should not be aggressively dumping his anger on his mom and acting disrespectfully towards his parents. But this just happened and he is young and passionate. Hopefully with time, cooler heads will prevail and constructive and healing conversations can take place.

At least in my family, the sibling who exploded in anger like this on more than one occasion and then later apologized and reconciled now has a wonderful relationship with my parents and is so helpful to them. Whereas the one who held all of the anger and resentment in let it grow and fester and deepen and now there is estrangement. Both hurt my parents at different times and in different ways, but the ultimate outcomes were also very different.

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4 minutes ago, Frances said:

I agree that the son should not be aggressively dumping his anger on his mom and acting disrespectfully towards his parents. But this just happened and he is young and passionate. Hopefully with time, cooler heads will prevail and constructive and healing conversations can take place.

 

Yes, and realistically speaking, if the argument was about something as important to both sides as the son’s wedding, I would strongly suspect that there were some raised voices on both sides of that heated encounter. I doubt the son was the only one who wasn’t exactly at his best that day.

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On 9/13/2019 at 5:23 PM, Scarlett said:

But..,,,what if it is faith issue.  

 

My kids come before my ideological beliefs. If one of my kids came home and suddenly held religious views I find abhorrent, I would let it ride unless someone’s health or safety was at stake or there was something criminal going on.  It doesn’t mean I wouldn’t set boundaries with my kids (I do that a lot), but it does mean my relationship with my kids does trump most things.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

But we don't know that the truth isn't that she was the one manipulating him, saying he needs to stay in her religion or she won't attend his wedding, interact with him, etc. If he's left the church, and she's chosen to cut him off over that, why isn't that manipulative, rather than him being the one manipulating her by wanting her to attend his wedding? If he is no longer in the JWs, the only way he may be able to have a wedding she could go to would be to cave and go back to her faith. 

Aside from the fact that I have no idea if this is the case and have no reason to speculate on this hypothetical as if that's what happened, I'll say: It's not manipulative because he doesn't have to do that.  No one is saying he has to. If she was demanding he rejoin a faith that he found objectionable in order that she could go to his wedding, I would have a different take on this thread. No one here has said that would be ok for her to do. I think she flat out said somewhere that's not what happened (but I admit to losing some of the bubble somewhere in there), and I don't gather she's the type to try to manipulate her son into a JW wedding or into a religion he doesn't want to be a part of. AFAIK, she other relatives that aren't JW that she associates with.

But the question in the OP was how do you handle a situation where a DC wants you to do something you find morally objectionable and is angry at you if you won't? How or can you mend the relationship?

What you're speculating on is a totally different question; that is, "my child won't do X so I refuse to do Y, which of us is right?"  It's just a totally different issue based on a complete hypothetical based on...idk what. It doesn't even seem like a hypothetical you could get to from all the info given unless you make a ton of mostly negative assumptions about the OP, her actions, her motivations, her religion, etc.

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4 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Aside from the fact that I have no idea if this is the case and have no reason to speculate on this hypothetical as if that's what happened, I'll say: It's not manipulative because he doesn't have to do that.  No one is saying he has to. If she was demanding he rejoin a faith that he found objectionable in order that she could go to his wedding, I would have a different take on this thread. No one here has said that would be ok for her to do. I think she flat out said somewhere that's not what happened (but I admit to losing some of the bubble somewhere in there), and I don't gather she's the type to try to manipulate her son into a JW wedding or into a religion he doesn't want to be a part of. AFAIK, she other relatives that aren't JW that she associates with.

But the question in the OP was how do you handle a situation where a DC wants you to do something you find morally objectionable and is angry at you if you won't? How or can you mend the relationship?

What you're speculating on is a totally different question; that is, "my child won't do X so I refuse to do Y, which of us is right?"  It's just a totally different issue based on a complete hypothetical based on...idk what. It doesn't even seem like a hypothetical you could get to from all the info given unless you make a ton of mostly negative assumptions about the OP, her actions, her motivations, her religion, etc.

What I'm trying to say is that it could be seen as him expecting her to come to a wedding outside her religion and her expecting him to have his wedding within her religion, or she won't go. 

some have speculated that it was a case of "I know you can't go if I have it at a church, so I'll do that and then try to make you go"

But it could also have been, "if you want me at your wedding, you'll come to your senses and do it within my faith"

 

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Just now, Ktgrok said:

What I'm trying to say is that it could be seen as him expecting her to come to a wedding outside her religion and her expecting him to have his wedding within her religion, or she won't go. 

some have speculated that it was a case of "I know you can't go if I have it at a church, so I'll do that and then try to make you go"

But it could also have been, "if you want me at your wedding, you'll come to your senses and do it within my faith"

 

Yes, it could have been any number of things. They are each allowed to have their own personal moral or religious boundaries. However, I guess unless she was really trolling and lying about the whole scenario, I was taking her at face value when she said her son asked her to do something he knew she could not do according to some conscience issue he already knew she held to and then was/is angry at her for not doing that exact thing. 

IOW, I could assume she is lying and it's the second scenario you came up with, but that's not what she asked about, so I didn't answer as if that's what happened. I answered and continue to reply based on info she gave and general principles I hold to wrt religion and boundaries.

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3 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Yes, it could have been any number of things. They are each allowed to have their own personal moral or religious boundaries. However, I guess unless she was really trolling and lying about the whole scenario, I was taking her at face value when she said her son asked her to do something he knew she could not do according to some conscience issue he already knew she held to and then was/is angry at her for not doing that exact thing. 

IOW, I could assume she is lying and it's the second scenario you came up with, but that's not what she asked about, so I didn't answer as if that's what happened. I answered and continue to reply based on info she gave and general principles I hold to wrt religion and boundaries.

That conscience issue could simply be associating with him after he's been disfellowshipped. We don't know. 

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4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

That conscience issue could simply be associating with him after he's been disfellowshipped. We don't know. 

Of course we do. JW's are fine with civil ceremonies, but not with participating in ceremonies of other faiths.  The thing he wanted her to do was against her conscience and something he's been raised knowing she would never do, which is going to a religious ceremony in a different faith.  He was trying to force her. She still wants a relationship with him.  She said nothing at all about trying to get him to violate his own conscience and come back into the fold.  She never even said he joined another church, and joining another church would be strange when you are angry that your own church isn't strict enough with their own beliefs, beliefs that other denominations don't have.

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Boundaries work both ways. It’s fine for Scarlett to decline to attend something that she feels strongly about.  It’s also fine for her son to feel distance from her choice.  We all live with the natural consequences of our choices.  I can see how that would be heated on both sides.  

My FIL refused to attend my husband’s and my wedding because his ex-wife, my MIL, would be attending with her new husband.   We weren’t going to play the pick and choose game.  We weren’t going to exclude my MIL to placate my FIL.  We didn’t retaliate against him or even have it out with him but it definitely affected their relationship.  My FIL then died suddenly, before the proverbial air really got cleared.  After he died, several family members relayed that in his last weeks and months he talked about how proud he was as of my husband for making his own way.  Unfortunately, my husband only ever heard that second hand.   Not to be morbid but I don’t assume that there’s always time to make amends.  My husband and I married young but my FIL died when my husband was just 26.  

ETA: my FIL only met his grandson (my oldest) twice because he was so bitter about us not excluding my MIL from our wedding.  There was a bit of physical distance in the mix there- we lived about 280 miles away but mostly it was FILs stubbornness.  The first time we tried to visit with our 3 month old son in tow, my FIL was too bitter about the wedding thing to open the door.  That hurt my husband more than the wedding reception thing TBH.  The summer before he died, he sent a spate of gifts for our then 2 year old son (things he found in catalogs) but he still wouldn’t really respond when my husband called to thank him.  His health declined rapidly all at once that November and by the time we’d arrived from the other side of the state, he’d lost consciousness and was in multi system organ failure.  He robbed himself a lot.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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5 minutes ago, Katy said:

Of course we do. JW's are fine with civil ceremonies, but not with participating in ceremonies of other faiths.  The thing he wanted her to do was against her conscience and something he's been raised knowing she would never do, which is going to a religious ceremony in a different faith.  He was trying to force her. She still wants a relationship with him.  She said nothing at all about trying to get him to violate his own conscience and come back into the fold.  She never even said he joined another church, and joining another church would be strange when you are angry that your own church isn't strict enough with their own beliefs, beliefs that other denominations don't have.

So...you think he got married in a church so she couldn't go, but didn't actually leave the JWs? Most churches aren't going to let you get married there if you are actively part of another religion and have no intentions of joining their church, at least in my experience. 

She didn't say anything about him leaving the faith, but she also didn't say anything about the wedding, or anything, until it was brought up. 

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12 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Yes, it could have been any number of things. They are each allowed to have their own personal moral or religious boundaries. However, I guess unless she was really trolling and lying about the whole scenario, I was taking her at face value when she said her son asked her to do something he knew she could not do according to some conscience issue he already knew she held to and then was/is angry at her for not doing that exact thing. 

IOW, I could assume she is lying and it's the second scenario you came up with, but that's not what she asked about, so I didn't answer as if that's what happened. I answered and continue to reply based on info she gave and general principles I hold to wrt religion and boundaries.

There aren't only those two options, though. We don't have to either believe that things are exactly the way she says they are or else believe she is a liar. I generally read all these type threads assuming that the original poster is telling the truth the way she sees it but that a different witness would have a somewhat different story. I think Scarlett is hurt and doing what most of us do when we are freshly hurt, reacting emotionally and justifying our actions to ourselves. Sometimes it takes some time before we can take a step back and say, "yeah, he shouldn't have done that, but I can see why he reacted that way. Maybe I shouldn't have done the thing I did when I got angry, or maybe I should have found a different way to share my thoughts with him."

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3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

That conscience issue could simply be associating with him after he's been disfellowshipped. We don't know. 

A) Right, we don't know so I find answering as if that could be the case sort of useless. I find it unlikely based on the way she's talked about her religion in the past, like you say, we don't know. It didn't enter into how I answered the original questions.

B) If that is the case, I still stand by everything I've said regarding boundaries and personal conscience. I may not understand religions that practice non-contact after excommunication or disfellowshipping, but I am familiar with people who cut off contact with close family for any number of reasons, religious and secular. It's painful and it sucks, but I'm not going to tell anyone they have to have contact with another person based on circumstances I know nothing about.

But I still contend the general principles of the situation she asked about don't require specifics to answer. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

So...you think he got married in a church so she couldn't go, but didn't actually leave the JWs? Most churches aren't going to let you get married there if you are actively part of another religion and have no intentions of joining their church, at least in my experience. 

She didn't say anything about him leaving the faith, but she also didn't say anything about the wedding, or anything, until it was brought up. 

 

IME all churches that don't consider marriage a sacrament will let couples get married there, they just charge ten times more for non-members.

And yes, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt.  I don't always agree with her or her faith but I have known her to be predictably and ethically consistent, so if she said he was manipulating her and liked all the scenarios when that was the description I absolutely think that's what  most likely happened.

Edited by Katy
typo that autocorrected to the opposite meaning.
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16 minutes ago, xahm said:

There aren't only those two options, though. We don't have to either believe that things are exactly the way she says they are or else believe she is a liar. I generally read all these type threads assuming that the original poster is telling the truth the way she sees it but that a different witness would have a somewhat different story. I think Scarlett is hurt and doing what most of us do when we are freshly hurt, reacting emotionally and justifying our actions to ourselves. Sometimes it takes some time before we can take a step back and say, "yeah, he shouldn't have done that, but I can see why he reacted that way. Maybe I shouldn't have done the thing I did when I got angry, or maybe I should have found a different way to share my thoughts with him."

Well I guess if the issue was that she was trying to force him back to the JW for his wedding so she could go, I would find that to be so opposite to the situation described in the OP as to be a lie for all intents and purposes. It wouldn't be just a difference in perspective between her and her son.

The thing about things being exactly as she said or not...she didn't give many specifics at all so was posing general questions about a general scenario. So there isn't even really any differing perspective to argue about, AFAIK. But we sure can try, lol. 🙂:shrug:

Edited by EmseB
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She's already said the decision she made wasn't because it was against her religion, just against her personal moral code/conscious.  So anything that is disallowed by JW isn't what happened.

I don't know why I'm still reading all this.  I'm pretty sure we're never going to find out what actually happened. 

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1 hour ago, Katy said:

Of course we do. JW's are fine with civil ceremonies, but not with participating in ceremonies of other faiths.  The thing he wanted her to do was against her conscience and something he's been raised knowing she would never do, which is going to a religious ceremony in a different faith.  He was trying to force her. She still wants a relationship with him.  She said nothing at all about trying to get him to violate his own conscience and come back into the fold.  She never even said he joined another church, and joining another church would be strange when you are angry that your own church isn't strict enough with their own beliefs, beliefs that other denominations don't have.

You totally made that up. Nowhere in this thread has Scarlett ever said that the wedding ceremony was in another faith. And when Ktgrok posted a quote about JWs being allowed to attend weddings in other churches and asked if that was correct, Scarlett replied "that is not the situation here." Lots of people have been speculating that the issue was it was in another church, but Scarlett never said that and refused to answer questions about it.

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3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

You totally made that up. Nowhere in this thread has Scarlett ever said that the wedding ceremony was in another faith. And when Ktgrok posted a quote about JWs being allowed to attend weddings in other churches and asked if that was correct, Scarlett replied "that is not the situation here." Lots of people have been speculating that the issue was it was in another church, but Scarlett never said that and refused to answer questions about it.

Agree.   Lots of speculation.   The other faith explanation is actually pretty straightforward.    Could be something like the ex husband being there and complexities with that.  

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5 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

You totally made that up. Nowhere in this thread has Scarlett ever said that the wedding ceremony was in another faith. And when Ktgrok posted a quote about JWs being allowed to attend weddings in other churches and asked if that was correct, Scarlett replied "that is not the situation here." Lots of people have been speculating that the issue was it was in another church, but Scarlett never said that and refused to answer questions about it.

 

I’m so glad you posted because I was sitting here wondering how I could have missed a post where Scarlett said her son was married in another faith. 

Scarlett, you’re obviously still reading all of the posts here because you’re taking the time to like the ones that support you, so why not just throw us a bone and tell us what actually happened? 

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8 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Agree.   Lots of speculation.   The other faith explanation is actually pretty straightforward.    Could be something like the ex husband being there and complexities with that.  

Or the ex husband was allowed to bring his girlfriend, or someone else would be there who was disfellowshipped, or they got married without going through some religiously required preparation or getting permission from someone in the church, or any number of other possibilities. The fact that many people said they would be sympathetic if the issue was the venue makes it even stranger that she would not simply confirm it if that was the issue, especially since that's not an especially personal thing that would need to be kept private.

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3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Or the ex husband was allowed to bring his girlfriend, or someone else would be there who was disfellowshipped, or they got married without going through some religiously required preparation or getting permission from someone in the church, or any number of other possibilities. The fact that many people said they would be sympathetic if the issue was the venue makes it even stranger that she would not simply confirm it if that was the issue, especially since that's not an especially personal thing that would need to be kept private.

 

The funny thing is, after all of our crazy ideas and suspicions, if Scarlett actually does tell us what it is, it will probably be kind of a letdown because it will be something totally normal and we will all be thinking, “Really? That’s it? You were worried we would criticize you for THAT???” 😉

 

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I've read pretty much this entire thread because was fascinating to me. From where to starts to all the different side trails and theories to just a little info from the OP either confirming or denying or giving just a little info and then refusing to post any more. I've been on the WTM long enough to know there is NO way to anticipate how a threat will end up (sorta like Telestrations - based on the Telephone game, you know?). People honestly seem to want to help, but without specifics, they are left hanging in the wind, want closure, so come up with a variety of scenarios which then has others discussing them.

But once it became clear the issue was her son, a JW, got married a girl, another JW whom Scarlett likes, and Scarlett wouldn't attend their wedding because of a moral/personal and not religious issue - am I the only one who thought maybe they were big Star Trek Next Generation Fans and they wanted a Betazoid wedding? Because outside of the idea that the person conducting the marriage ceremony was a truly undesirable evil person (which doesn't seem likely given what we've read of the son here), I can't figure out a legitimate-sounding-to-me reason to not attend the wedding. But reading all the speculation is interesting. I can imagine this being a great made-for-TV movie - with each different theory being played out until we get to the final scene reveal. 

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4 minutes ago, Bambam said:

I've read pretty much this entire thread because was fascinating to me. From where to starts to all the different side trails and theories to just a little info from the OP either confirming or denying or giving just a little info and then refusing to post any more. I've been on the WTM long enough to know there is NO way to anticipate how a threat will end up (sorta like Telestrations - based on the Telephone game, you know?). People honestly seem to want to help, but without specifics, they are left hanging in the wind, want closure, so come up with a variety of scenarios which then has others discussing them.

But once it became clear the issue was her son, a JW, got married a girl, another JW whom Scarlett likes, and Scarlett wouldn't attend their wedding because of a moral/personal and not religious issue - am I the only one who thought maybe they were big Star Trek Next Generation Fans and they wanted a Betazoid wedding? Because outside of the idea that the person conducting the marriage ceremony was a truly undesirable evil person (which doesn't seem likely given what we've read of the son here), I can't figure out a legitimate-sounding-to-me reason to not attend the wedding. But reading all the speculation is interesting. I can imagine this being a great made-for-TV movie - with each different theory being played out until we get to the final scene reveal. 

Ha! A betazoid wedding! No, I would not attend that myself. Don’t care how upset my kid would be.

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Yeah, I would probably avoid the ceremony for a betazoid wedding also lol.  I would probably go to the reception though provided the bride um.............................changed lol.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

The funny thing is, after all of our crazy ideas and suspicions, if Scarlett actually does tell us what it is, it will probably be kind of a letdown because it will be something totally normal and we will all be thinking, “Really? That’s it? You were worried we would criticize you for THAT???” 😉

 

 

Although I still think it is the opposite.  We would be like, "Why did you make such a big deal over THAT?"  And that is probably why she isn't stating.

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2 hours ago, Bambam said:

I've read pretty much this entire thread because was fascinating to me. From where to starts to all the different side trails and theories to just a little info from the OP either confirming or denying or giving just a little info and then refusing to post any more. I've been on the WTM long enough to know there is NO way to anticipate how a threat will end up (sorta like Telestrations - based on the Telephone game, you know?). People honestly seem to want to help, but without specifics, they are left hanging in the wind, want closure, so come up with a variety of scenarios which then has others discussing them.

 

 

Actually, Scarlet's threads are the easiest to predict.  It went exactly as I anticipated it going. 

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I've been thinking about this and I've come up with a potential correllary example from my own faith. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints follow a guideline that we call the Word of Wisdom that among other things forbids us to drink coffee or tea. There are a significant number of members who believe that by extension drinking of any caffeinated beverage is forbidden. That isn't explicit in the official interpretation however, and there is no negative consequence applied by church authority for someone who drinks a Coke every day--whereas there are some negative consequences for drinking coffee.

I have never in my life intentionally broken the word of wisdom. It would seem silly I'm sure to someone who is not of my faith that I would see drinking a cup of tea as a significant trangression, but yes it is. If a child of mine wanted me to participate in some kind of ceremony that required me to sip a taste of tea I wouldn't do it-regardless of how important the ceremony was to the child. 

I wouldn't personally hold to that degree of strictness if the beverage in question were Coke, although I mostly avoid any caffeinated beverage. But I would understand and respect the choice of a member of my faith who did hold to the same strictness with regard to caffeinated soft drinks as they did with coffee or tea.

Edited by maize
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56 minutes ago, maize said:

I've been thinking about this and I've come up with a potential correllary example from my own faith. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints follow a guideline that we call the Word of Wisdom that among other things forbids us to drink coffee or tea. There are a significant number of members who believe that by extension drinking of any caffeinated beverage is forbidden. That isn't explicit in the official interpretation however, and there is no negative consequence applied by church authority for someone who drinks a Coke every day--whereas there are some negative consequences for drinking coffee.

I have never in my life intentionally broken the word of wisdom. It would seem silly I'm sure to someone who is not of my faith that I would see drinking a cup of tea as a significant trangression, but yes it is. If a child of mine wanted me to participate in some kind of ceremony that required me to sip a taste of tea I wouldn't do it-regardless of how important the ceremony was to the child. 

I wouldn't personally hold to that degree of strictness if the beverage in question were Coke, although I mostly avoid any caffeinated beverage. But I would understand and respect the choice of a member of my faith who did hold to the same strictness with regard to caffeinated soft drinks as they did with coffee or tea.

Total side question...

Is herbal teas ok?  They don't contain any caffeine at all since they aren't technically made from actual tea leaves.  

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7 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Total side question...

Is herbal teas ok?  They don't contain any caffeine at all since they aren't technically made from actual tea leaves.  

Yes, I enjoy herbal teas/tisanes. Only beverages made from the tea plant are forbidden.

ETA I've occasionally encountered Latter-day Saints who avoid drinking any hot beverage. That is a less common literal interpretation of the original guideline.

Edited by maize

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14 minutes ago, maize said:

Yes, I enjoy herbal teas/tisanes. Only beverages made from the tea plant are forbidden.

ETA I've occasionally encountered Latter-day Saints who avoid drinking any hot beverage. That is a less common literal interpretation of the original guideline.

You just sent me down a rabbit trail to read about the history of this. Very interesting. I guess I’d fit right in because I can’t stand coffee or tea. I only drink herbal tea. And I’d completely forgotten about Postum. My husband drank it sometimes when we were first married because he drank it growing up. 🙂

For me only, it reminded me of abstaining from meat on Fridays during Lent. I always thought it was great because I love fish and so many local places would have fish specials on Fridays. 

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Scarlett, 

Replying here to something you said on another thread. You are a great mom. And a great stepmom too.  Keep repeating that to yourself, because it’s true. 

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15 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Replying here to something you said on another thread. You are a great mom. And a great stepmom too.  Keep repeating that to yourself, because it’s true. 

 

Little, if any, good can come of defining success as a parent as the adult child adopting all of the parent’s same values and beliefs.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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I did not read most of the comments - there are way too many.

I think an adult son needs to come to the understanding that he and his parent are separate people who are entitled to very different beliefs and boundaries.

This may not be an easy understanding to come to at a young age, but I think it is essential to do so.

I don't think it needs to destroy the parent-child relationship.

That said, if there is a "significant other" involved who is vocally against the parent's belief/boundary, this can make it harder for the son to develop this understanding.

If Scarlett could just try to explain to ALL affected parties that there is no lack of love motivating her decision, maybe that will help.  It might also help if a more detached third party could explain that.

But mostly, I think this is something time needs to work on.

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4 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

Although I still think it is the opposite.  We would be like, "Why did you make such a big deal over THAT?"  And that is probably why she isn't stating.

I know almost nothing about JW beliefs but after reading this entire thread in one sitting, and knocking out one possibility after the other, I'm left wondering if it really is a "huh??" thing to most of us.

Like, her going to the wedding of the underage girl and the lack of response (both in the delayed time and, in Scarlett's son's eyes, not enough punishment) caused her son to choose to have his wedding at a different temple/hall/place as opposed to the one where he is/had been a member (or insert correct term--I hope I got that all right) and that Scarlett chose not to attend because that is a slight on her morals or expectations as a member of her particular temple/hall. Sort of 'he's a member there, so he has to get married there, and since he didn't, she chose not to go. Since it seems that she's the only one who had an issue with it and didn't go, yeah, it is probably a "huh?? thing to us. This is just something that popped into my mind as I read the last couple of pages.

As an aside, over the years, I've often wondered if there isn't a JW message board out there that might be a better fit for many of Scarlett's posts. So much of what she seems to ask/comment on here almost always boils down to her beliefs & moral code once the details come out (and, yes, details matter!) and it seems that most people here have a hard time understanding the nuances of her situation and those threads (her ss's weight, other people's weight, going/not going to a wedding, and many others over the years that I can't think of at the moment) often boil down to a thought process/belief that is outside the norm for the overwhelming majority of us on this board and those threads all end up being contentious and 'better-than' in a lot of instances. I'm thinking a more like-minded forum would be a better fit for her for those moral-leaning topics, as she might get advice that is better-suited to her situation.

Scarlett, since you're still reading and posting 'likes', I want you to know that I've been on these boards for over 10 years and have seen you go through heartache & pain, find love again, and navigate the often-difficult waters of being a step-parent. I sincerely wish the best for you and your son and hope that this will one day be just a horrible, and distant, memory for all involved.

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5 hours ago, Wildcat said:

and it seems that most people here have a hard time understanding the nuances of her situation and those threads (her ss's weight, other people's weight, going/not going to a wedding, and many others over the years that I can't think of at the moment)  

??

I'd be really surprised if the weight thing has anything to do with JW - they do promote healthy living, but that's hardly unique, your body is a temple and all that. The wedding thing is also common to many denominations. 

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Okay, I just want to say that I think you all belong here. (Yes, I'm talking to you, @moonflower, and you, Scarlett, and everybody else!) There is SO MUCH collective wisdom and interesting discussion not only in this thread but on the Hive in general, and I'd hate for any of it to go missing. I've learned a lot and even changed some long-held perspectives just from being here and reading and interacting.

I figure that people will give whatever detail they are comfortable giving or not giving, and we can do our best to help. 

Love you guys. ❤️

p.s. Huge hugs Scarlett. I trust that acting according to your conscience was absolutely necessary for you, but I know that doesn't make things easier. 

Edited by MercyA
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9 hours ago, hjffkj said:

 

Actually, Scarlet's threads are the easiest to predict.  It went exactly as I anticipated it going. 

I would say that the majority of the do-not-copy-cut-or-paste-because-will-delete-later threads follow the same path.  If the post has to be deleted later, should it be posted in first place?  Original posters understandably want sympathy.  When members' speculations or questions get uncomfortable for original posters, original posters mete out details in effort to support their position on matter while basically remaining mum on the whole story.  Advice cannot be given in a vacuum. 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, annandatje said:

I would say that the majority of the do-not-copy-cut-or-paste-because-will-delete-later threads follow the same path.  If the post has to be deleted later, should it be posted in first place?  Original posters understandably want sympathy.  When members' speculations or questions get uncomfortable for original posters, original posters mete out details in effort to support their position on matter while basically remaining mum on the whole story.  Advice cannot be given in a vacuum. 

Eh, I've posted things like that more than once. Sometimes there's something I want to share or something I want to ask and I just don't want it out there forever for anyone to read. (Yes, I know it's technically still out there somewhere, but deleted posts are harder for the average person to find.) Hopefully people here know me well enough to know I'm not just doing it for jollies, and I assume other posters aren't either.

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On 9/15/2019 at 2:43 PM, Frances said:

I disagree. He would be forced to accept that she is not attending because she considers gay marriage wrong and sinful due her religious beliefs and that she is choosing to apply that standard and belief to others, not just herself, rather than showing her love and support to someone who believes differently. She would be hurting him deeply.

And I’m guessing it would almost absolutely guarantee he would never ever consider becoming a Catholic or even explore the faith.

 

And that, if he is ever in trouble or pain and in need of family connection, he will likely look elsewhere.

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4 hours ago, annandatje said:

I would say that the majority of the do-not-copy-cut-or-paste-because-will-delete-later threads follow the same path.  If the post has to be deleted later, should it be posted in first place?  Original posters understandably want sympathy.  When members' speculations or questions get uncomfortable for original posters, original posters mete out details in effort to support their position on matter while basically remaining mum on the whole story.  Advice cannot be given in a vacuum. 

 

 

Other posts like that certainly end the same way, but those seem to be from a handful of posters. I think many posters, even when requesting not to quote/will delete later, are genuinely open to other people's perspectives and don't just want reply after reply of agreement. The people who want agreement or who are continually shocked when they don't get it are the ones who start giving out info to better support their issue.

This time around Scarlett wised up and knew she wouldn't give the full story because she knew most people would not support her decision. Unfortunately, any advice about the actual relationship being mended can't be reliable because the actual facts are what would help people know if they have experience with that type of damaged relationship.

I for one might have been very helpful because the way dh and I got married pissed his siblings off to a point that it could have easily broken their relationship indefinitely. it didn't but the relationships we're strained for years.

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I think I had a similar experience with my mom which I related, although it was comparatively mild.  It was one in which I was angry at her for a time for not agreeing with a moral stance I sort of discovered/grew into as a young adult, and how we both handled it badly in some ways (I was persistent to the point of unkindness where it was pointless, she called me a fanatic and lied to my daughter to subvert the moral boundary).  We have healed the rift somewhat by both backing off some; we're not as close as we were but we're not fighting or anything like that; we don't talk about it and that seems to work.

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7 hours ago, hjffkj said:

Unfortunately, any advice about the actual relationship being mended can't be reliable because the actual facts are what would help people know if they have experience with that type of damaged relationship.

 

Right. Not wanting to go watch an R rated movie that has no particular significance is going to have a different impact on the relationship than not attending a child's wedding. And if disfellowshipping comes into play, that will have a completely different impact. 

Although now I'm wondering if she just skipped the bacholorette party 🙂

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11 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Right. Not wanting to go watch an R rated movie that has no particular significance is going to have a different impact on the relationship than not attending a child's wedding. And if disfellowshipping comes into play, that will have a completely different impact. 

Although now I'm wondering if she just skipped the bacholorette party 🙂

And see that scenario creats a completely different response from people. But I can't imagine that being the case, since I'm pretty sure most people on the hive would side with her in regard to the mother of the  groom not noting to a bachelorette party.

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