Read the Syllabus (an oldie but a goodie)

[RootAnn]

@Kareni posts this every so often. I Thought I would post a link to this humorous blog post from many years ago. ** Warning:  Bad language **

We'd Encourage Future Students To Read the Syllabus, or Maybe Just Take Another Class

I remember reading it when my eldest was very young & I was reminded of it when that very same kid was talking about the syllabi for her classes this semester. Timely reminder! My eldest's syllabi are all electronic- no hard copies handed out. But they are still expected to know the contents.

[Kareni]

Thanks for reposting this, RootAnn! RTFS has become part of our family lexicon. My husband teaches group classes of homeschoolers; I often hear him muttering RTFS when asked for the nth time if Monday will be a holiday or if homework needs to be handed in or ....

Best wishes to you and your college student.

Regards,

Kareni

[8filltheheart]

My dd had 2 classes with assignments due yesterday and today is the first day of classes.  Guess profs know who read  the syllabus!

Edited August 22, 2019 by 8FillTheHeart

[G5052]

My dean actually read this in a faculty meeting on Saturday. My department standardizes the syllabuses other than late policies, due dates, and faculty information. And it's LONG.

[MerryAtHope]

7 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

My dd had 2 classes with assignments due yesterday and today is the first day of classes.  Guess profs know who read  the syllabus!

 

My dd had that happen her very first semester of college! (It was a chem class, and I thought it must be a weed-out technique!) Good grief!

[regentrude]

Always a good one.

 

[Serenade]

8 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

My dd had 2 classes with assignments due yesterday and today is the first day of classes.  Guess profs know who read  the syllabus!

 

Wow, that's pretty rough, and I think it is unfair.  Does the school have a rule that students have to check their class websites/syllabi during the summer?  How many days in advance?   Many people are out of town until right before classes start.  We came back from vacation on a Sunday and my son started classes on Monday.  He wouldn't have been able to do any work in advance.

[katilac]

2 hours ago, Serenade said:

 

Wow, that's pretty rough, and I think it is unfair.  Does the school have a rule that students have to check their class websites/syllabi during the summer?  How many days in advance?   Many people are out of town until right before classes start.  We came back from vacation on a Sunday and my son started classes on Monday.  He wouldn't have been able to do any work in advance.

ime, it's standard operating procedure to check your email before class begins. Both of my kids, at two different schools, routinely get syllabi emailed to them before the official start of the semester and they can include assignments and/or expectations for the first day. Students generally have an email account as soon as they are accepted, and the importance of checking it routinely is stressed from the get-go and then again at new student orientation. 

So, yes, definitely, he needs to get in the habit of checking his email periodically throughout breaks and frequently in the couple of weeks before classes begin. If nothing else, that is how you find out about classes that are canceled or rescheduled! We've not had the experience of professors giving extremely time-consuming assignments that are due the first day, but I'm sure it happens. If you're on vacation, you just have to deal with it. And not plan vacations with no wi-fi, lol. 

[8filltheheart]

6 hours ago, Serenade said:

 

Wow, that's pretty rough, and I think it is unfair.  Does the school have a rule that students have to check their class websites/syllabi during the summer?  How many days in advance?   Many people are out of town until right before classes start.  We came back from vacation on a Sunday and my son started classes on Monday.  He wouldn't have been able to do any work in advance.

They are 400 and grad level classes, not freshman. Students should be well aware as upperclassmen that they need to read their syllabus before class.

 

[Serenade]

6 hours ago, katilac said:

ime, it's standard operating procedure to check your email before class begins. Both of my kids, at two different schools, routinely get syllabi emailed to them before the official start of the semester and they can include assignments and/or expectations for the first day. Students generally have an email account as soon as they are accepted, and the importance of checking it routinely is stressed from the get-go and then again at new student orientation. 

So, yes, definitely, he needs to get in the habit of checking his email periodically throughout breaks and frequently in the couple of weeks before classes begin. If nothing else, that is how you find out about classes that are canceled or rescheduled! We've not had the experience of professors giving extremely time-consuming assignments that are due the first day, but I'm sure it happens. If you're on vacation, you just have to deal with it. And not plan vacations with no wi-fi, lol. 

 

2 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

They are 400 and grad level classes, not freshman. Students should be well aware as upperclassmen that they need to read their syllabus before class.

 

 

My son does check his e-mail prior to class.  However, he's not going to stay home from vacation prior to the first day of college to check his e-mail every day.  We were camped in a somewhat remote area, and had he even been able to receive e-mail, he would have had very limited resources to complete an assignment.  I believe that if the professors are going to make assignments that are due before classes even begin, they need to make those assignments when a student registers for the class.  That would be simple enough and fair warning.

[EKS]

In my graduate courses over the past two years, there were several occasions where it was blatantly obvious that the instructors had no idea what was in their syllabuses. They (variously) didn't know what the assignments were, when they were due, how they were to be graded, or whether or not they would accept late work.  It was odd.  Then I realized that most of them were using syllabuses that they had inherited from someone else at some point and had had altered over the years by a third person.  Still, they would have done well to have actually read the thing before the first class meeting.

[regentrude]

5 hours ago, Serenade said:

I believe that if the professors are going to make assignments that are due before classes even begin, they need to make those assignments when a student registers for the class.  That would be simple enough and fair warning.

Nothing simple about that. At many universities, students register for fall semester classes some time in March or April. Often, the instructor for the course has not even been assigned yet.  

 

My son does check his e-mail prior to class.  However, he's not going to stay home from vacation prior to the first day of college to check his e-mail every day.  We were camped in a somewhat remote area, and had he even been able to receive e-mail, he would have had very limited resources to complete an assignment.  I

In that case, a simple email to the professor explaining the situation and asking for a workaround should be sufficient. Students travel, and professors know that. They can still communicate.

Edited August 23, 2019 by regentrude

[RootAnn]

My DD had to take an on-campus placement test in order to place into an upper level language class so she didn't get registered for it until the day before classes started. But in that case, the teacher didn't have the syllabus out yet anyway. I think there are still people adding classes (after dropping others) the first week of classes. So there are probably work arounds for those type situations.

[LisaKinVA]

On 8/22/2019 at 11:57 AM, RootAnn said:

@Kareni posts this every so often. I Thought I would post a link to this humorous blog post from many years ago. ** Warning:  Bad language **

We'd Encourage Future Students To Read the Syllabus, or Maybe Just Take Another Class

I remember reading it when my eldest was very young & I was reminded of it when that very same kid was talking about the syllabi for her classes this semester. Timely reminder! My eldest's syllabi are all electronic- no hard copies handed out. But they are still expected to know the contents.

It would be NICE if the syllabus were available.  All but one of my son's courses has the syllabus marked "private" -- so he can't see the books or requirements yet.  But, at least he's prepared for Film Appreciation.

[Guest]

What I dislike is departmental syllabi, where sometimes it seems like the instructor hasn’t read it. DD has had a few classes where the syllabus lists things that apply to the online sections, but she is in a lecture section. She had one class where she carefully submitted the first assignment as it was stated on the syllabus, only to discover that the online link listed on the syllabus to upload the assignments was for the wrong instructor/section when the professor had no idea that anyone had turned anything in. Fortunately, DD is paranoid about online submissions, and when the professor asked them to turn it in, had a printed copy to do so. Some of the other students ended up making a mad dash to the library to print a copy. 

[Snoopytwo]

On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 10:20 PM, MerryAtHope said:

 

My dd had that happen her very first semester of college! (It was a chem class, and I thought it must be a weed-out technique!) Good grief!

Yep, my son is a freshman. His classes start tomorrow. He has an assignment for his chem class that has to be completed before tomorrow.  And,... the professor just posted it this weekend!

Edited August 26, 2019 by Snoopytwo

[MerryAtHope]

3 hours ago, Snoopytwo said:

Yep, my son is a freshman. His classes start tomorrow. He has an assignment for his chem class that has to be completed before tomorrow.  And,... the professor just posted it this weekend!

Maybe there’s a special class where they learn to do that to students, LOL! His class did turn out to be challenging, but she rose to the challenge. 

[LisaKinVA]

On 8/25/2019 at 8:23 PM, Snoopytwo said:

Yep, my son is a freshman. His classes start tomorrow. He has an assignment for his chem class that has to be completed before tomorrow.  And,... the professor just posted it this weekend!

Do our sons go to the same school, with the same prof?  This happened to us too!

[regentrude]

On 8/24/2019 at 9:14 AM, LisaK in VA said:

 All but one of my son's courses has the syllabus marked "private" -- so he can't see the books or requirements yet.  

You probably know this, but for others who don't:

textbook information may be available through the college bookstore site. At our uni, we have to submit textbook info to the bookstore several months before the beginning of the semester. So, even if the prof does not have a canvas/blackboard course set up and a syllabus published, the students can find out what materials they need through the bookstore website.

Edited August 27, 2019 by regentrude

[lewelma]

I am so glad I read this thread!  I had no idea profs would give assignments to be done for the first day.  We went hunting today and found this for one of his classes:

"You must turn in your brief by September 4 at 11:59pm in order to be admitted to the class for the Fall. Note that September 4 is the day before the first class."

So if you did not RTFS, you would not even be allowed into the class!!!  

[MerryAtHope]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

I am so glad I read this thread!  I had no idea profs would give assignments to be done for the first day.  We went hunting today and found this for one of his classes:

"You must turn in your brief by September 4 at 11:59pm in order to be admitted to the class for the Fall. Note that September 4 is the day before the first class."

So if you did not RTFS, you would not even be allowed into the class!!!  

That seems like a hefty and unfair penalty!

[lewelma]

Well, my guess is that it is a way to reduce class size by a method better than first-come-first-serve or a lottery. They are choosing based on who was keen enough to check if there was any homework for the first class.  Looks like it will take about 4 hours too.  The prereqs for the class said: "permission by instructor", so I'm guessing this is how you get permission!

But without this board, my son would not be in this class this fall because neither my dh, ds, nor I knew to check. 

[MerryAtHope]

17 hours ago, lewelma said:

Well, my guess is that it is a way to reduce class size by a method better than first-come-first-serve or a lottery. They are choosing based on who was keen enough to check if there was any homework for the first class.  Looks like it will take about 4 hours too.  The prereqs for the class said: "permission by instructor", so I'm guessing this is how you get permission!

But without this board, my son would not be in this class this fall because neither my dh, ds, nor I knew to check. 

Weird! I’ve seen some classes listed as permission by instructor, but I always thought he had to talk to the instructor before you signed up for the class!

[Bootsie]

Wow--as a professor, I would never think of having an assignment due before the first class for a regular undergraduate class.  I might email my students and say that they need to make sure that they have particular materials for the first day of class because we will be using them the first day.  I taught for many years before students had emails and before there were learning management systems to post assignments for the them.  If I could teach then without having them do assignments before the class officially starts, surely I can do it now.  This is one of the downsides of how much more "organized" we can be with technology.  I think it is causing us to be more frantic and pulled into too many directions than we need to be.

There have been a few times that I have contacted students about an assignment before we have met.  I once had a Monday class in January that would have been the first class that was cancelled because of an ice storm.  The next Monday was MLK holiday.  So, it was two weeks into the semester before we were going to actually meet--and we would be way behind the other sections with a coordinated lab if the students did not complete the first assignment.  But, in that case the semester had really already started.  We also routinely give assignments before a compressed graduate class where we meet just a few class meetings that last all day long; in those instances, however, the students are prepared for readings and case assignments that wi be discussed in the class meeting.  

[ieta_cassiopeia]

My alma mater did not allow contact between professors and students before Day 1, or before their first class after adding the course on the Add/Drop system* (this was to avoid pre-requisites by the back door, and students wasting time signing up for courses they were blatantly unready to do). This was a shock to anyone signing up for Formal Logic on the last week of Add/Drop who didn't read the syllabus - there was an exam on the first day after Add/Drop (as soon as university regulations permitted it) and the only way to know it was happening (let alone what was on the test) was to read the syllabus.

 

Did I mention the exam was 20% of the mark, and under department regulations every exam had to be passed for credit to be given for any course taken, no exceptions except where passing would have been implausible (e.g. medical problem flaring up on exam day)? Or that failing the course would mean having to resit all 4 exams in the course, even if the other 3 were passed with flying colours, at a £120 fee - or asking special permission to advance with fewer credits than expected for that level (assuming the student had not already committed to paying £250 to take an extra course on top of a "full load")?

 

Fortunately this was one of the professors who used the option to put the course book on the syllabus rather than only issue it in class (which the syllabus specifically stated professors could do if they felt that worked better for their class)...

* - For emergencies, each department had a separate system, distinct from professor/student communication, to contact all students in the department. This was occasionally used (but less often than it probably should have been, because on two occasions the class got moved, none of the students were informed and the class had to traipse across a 1-mile campus with about 200 buildings to figure which one contained our new class...) The university had one too, but it was never used when I was there - though had the finals been a week later, it would have been because the entire university was shut, thanks to a massive flood.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ieta_cassiopeia

[skimomma]

I taught at a university for 13 years and often had assignments that were due before the first day of class.  It was/is not at all uncommon in my department and students did not complain......to me, anyway.  Some of my classes were flipped (they watch my lecture via recorded video before class so we can use class time for hands-on/group/interactive work) and I needed the students to watch the lecture before arriving at the first class.  And usually lecture videos were followed by a short assignment to encourage them to actually watch the lecture.  Even in non-flipped classes, I often had reading assignments before the first class with some graded deliverable attached.  Had someone come to me that clearly had no idea this was a thing, I am sure I would allow an extension, just as I did for late adds.  

[LisaKinVA]

1 hour ago, skimomma said:

I taught at a university for 13 years and often had assignments that were due before the first day of class.  It was/is not at all uncommon in my department and students did not complain......to me, anyway.  Some of my classes were flipped (they watch my lecture via recorded video before class so we can use class time for hands-on/group/interactive work) and I needed the students to watch the lecture before arriving at the first class.  And usually lecture videos were followed by a short assignment to encourage them to actually watch the lecture.  Even in non-flipped classes, I often had reading assignments before the first class with some graded deliverable attached.  Had someone come to me that clearly had no idea this was a thing, I am sure I would allow an extension, just as I did for late adds.  

In my son's case... it was 4 hours of work which required both the book and internet access.  The assignment was posted around noon on Sunday prior to his 9am class on Monday (he did set up notifications, so as soon as it was posted, he knew about it and checked it). He was one of I'm guessing very few people in his 200-person class who did it (based upon what the prof said)  The prof essentially bumped the due date until Wednesday.  His chem class is flipped as you describe.  Had we been traveling back from NC (which wouldn't have been out of the question), he would not have had an opportunity to complete the work until late at night.

I don't think the complaint is so much about assignments, but of a lack of notice for assignments.  Adults (and students) make plans based upon what we know is happening -- I don't know anyone who sits around just in case an assignment (or in my case a job) shows up and we need to turn it around in less than 24 hours... especially on the weekend.   An assignment due the first day of class should have more than 19 hours notice (which includes normal sleeping hours) to allow students the opportunity to schedule around it.  As my son is also an athlete, he has to practice at 6am, and would go straight from practice to class.  

[Guest]

On 8/27/2019 at 12:32 PM, regentrude said:

You probably know this, but for others who don't:

textbook information may be available through the college bookstore site. At our uni, we have to submit textbook info to the bookstore several months before the beginning of the semester. So, even if the prof does not have a canvas/blackboard course set up and a syllabus published, the students can find out what materials they need through the bookstore website.

Maybe. My DD has twice bought “required” codes or books based on the bookstore listing , only to find out THAT prof doesn’t use them. Usually they are returnable, but it’s annoying. 

[RootAnn]

True.

DD had several "required" books where only a code was needed because the ebook is included with the code. She still prefers a physical textbook so she ordered those but apparently the Calc text is never used by most kids. (I'm hoping she's doing the "extra practice" problems from the text that aren't required. But I'm not holding my breath.)

[Tree Frog]

On 8/31/2019 at 2:23 PM, RootAnn said:

True.

DD had several "required" books where only a code was needed because the ebook is included with the code. She still prefers a physical textbook so she ordered those but apparently the Calc text is never used by most kids. (I'm hoping she's doing the "extra practice" problems from the text that aren't required. But I'm not holding my breath.)

Which cal is your dd taking? I think my ds chose the book, too, because it's easier to read.

 

[RootAnn]

@wilrunner Retaking Cal A so she'll use the same book for 3 semesters.