College major

[Janeway]

Is this something I need to worry about? This is oldest son I am referencing here, and this is the one with ASD. 

 

I am unsure of protocol on this board, if I have multiple questions, should I make separate posts?

 

Son wants to major in classics. He goes to a classical education school and does very well.  He did well on the PSAT and will take the SAT. He wants to major in classics. He actually has a good start in that he has taken to attending Latin conferences and such that are not at all required by his school. He loves the classics so much and excels in the subject of Latin. He is thinking he will teach. He wants to get his doctorate. 

 

I did not really question his major. He does fine in his other subjects. But he does have very limited life experience. Not like he knows anyone who is..well..anything. The only adults in his life seem to be me and his dad and then the staff at the school. He used to do karate so the people there. My husband is objecting to what son wants to major in. Son got defensive and said it is his right to pick a major, even if it is one that will lead to poverty because poverty should be his choice. Okay. Well...not sure what to say about that. I am not the one who said anything about the classics major. There is a Latin teaching certificate for our state. Not sure about the job outlook for Latin teaching nor do I have any clue about the prospects for getting in to graduate school, getting funding, and then getting a teaching job..in the field of classics or Latin or otherwise. 

 

Son says he is about 99% sure it will be classics but is considering other subjects. His subjects he loves...Latin and philosophy. He is interested in the chance to take Greek. I asked him if he could possibly develop an interest in the ministry as I know sometimes those subjects can lead to certain types of theology degrees. 

 

Would you be concerned about a teen wanting to major in classics? Have I been wrong to think nothing of it and not be concerned? And how would I go about helping him to explore various paths in life, as it relates to college and such?

[kokotg]

I might not be the most practical person in the world, but I'd love it if one of my kids wanted to major in classics. I think the big things to remember are that most people change majors and most people's jobs end up having little to do with what they major in anyway. Not always, obviously, but a lot of the time. I know two people IRL who majored in Classics; one is a vet, and one ended up being an elementary school teacher. 

[8filltheheart]

For the avg person, my response would to your post would be no, I wouldn't be concerned.  I have a dd majoring in foreign languages which is similar in job prospects.

That said, I would be concerned about my Aspie wanting to major in a field that does not have a clear path to employment or without understanding how he might handle the job on the other end of the degree.  Has your ds ever held a job? How flexible is his thinking? How does he handle open-ended scenarios? How does he handle having to shift gears without forewarning?

The unemployment and underemployment rate for Aspies is incredibly high.  Academics and holding a job are 2 completely different skill sets.  We know parents of adult Aspies who have kids with masters degrees who cannot hold a job.  When we have met with different states' DRS, college educated Aspies are amg those who cannot hold jobs long-term. Placements for them can be very difficult. Amg Aspies who are employed, underemployment is a huge factor.

Obviously autism is a spectrum disorder and all function differently.  But, major is only a small part of the long-term outcome.

 http://www.diversityjournal.com/9929-is-it-time-for-aspergers-in-the-workplace/ 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/04/21/401243060/young-adults-with-autism-more-likely-to-be-unemployed-isolated

FWIW, our Aspie is 27 yrs old.  He is extremely intelligent and in his college courses he has maintained high grades. (He started back to school this yr after dropping out after 2 yrs when he first graduated from high school.) I am still not convinced he will be able to handle a job in his given goal, though.  He has worked full-time (severely underemployed) for the past 4 yrs, but he struggles with many aspects of holding a job. He currently works at Goodwill and they accept his quirks and struggles b/c they hired him as a disabled worker.  

[Janeway]

38 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

For the avg person, my response would to your post would be no, I wouldn't be concerned.  I have a dd majoring in foreign languages which is similar in job prospects.

That said, I would be concerned about my Aspie wanting to major in a field that does not have a clear path to employment or without understanding how he might handle the job on the other end of the degree.  Has your ds ever held a job? How flexible is his thinking? How does he handle open-ended scenarios? How does he handle having to shift gears without forewarning?

The unemployment and underemployment rate for Aspies is incredibly high.  Academics and holding a job are 2 completely different skill sets.  We know parents of adult Aspies who have kids with masters degrees who cannot hold a job.  When we have met with different states' DRS, college educated Aspies are amg those who cannot hold jobs long-term. Placements for them can be very difficult. Amg Aspies who are employed, underemployment is a huge factor.

Obviously autism is a spectrum disorder and all function differently.  But, major is only a small part of the long-term outcome.

 http://www.diversityjournal.com/9929-is-it-time-for-aspergers-in-the-workplace/ 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/04/21/401243060/young-adults-with-autism-more-likely-to-be-unemployed-isolated

FWIW, our Aspie is 27 yrs old.  He is extremely intelligent and in his college courses he has maintained high grades. (He started back to school this yr after dropping out after 2 yrs when he first graduated from high school.) I am still not convinced he will be able to handle a job in his given goal, though.  He has worked full-time (severely underemployed) for the past 4 yrs, but he struggles with many aspects of holding a job. He currently works at Goodwill and they accept his quirks and struggles b/c they hired him as a disabled worker.  

He is rigid in his thinking. When I ask him to do something, he is literal.

 

LOL..on this note..my younger son (the one much younger, not high schooler)..I asked him to pick up the living room the other day and he got upset and declared he was not strong enough. I cannot see him working as a teacher. That is his goal. He can babysit and all, but he is so rigid and a rule is a rule. He actually did teach for a while at the dojo. He did not get fired. He had to stop when he started back to a brick and mortar school and had too much home work. So maybe I am completely underestimating him. Although I will say, no one at his school, not even teachers, figured out that he has ASD.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Janeway

[8filltheheart]

It does not have anything to do with underestimating them.  It has to do with their ability to cope and function.  Literal thinking is just one small aspect of employment.  In talking with DRS, 2 major factors that impact employment are working methodically (too slow/too hyper-focused) and adaptability (too inflexible to jump onboard with last minute changes, alter expectations/routines, etc.)  I know for my ds that his struggles at work stem from misunderstanding employee interactions, anxiety,  and definitely business changes. He thrives in routine and predictable expectations (that is similar to the artificial environment of school.)

[MerryAtHope]

My brother is a Classics professor, and I know it’s a highly competitive field. When he was applying (this was years ago), there would be 200 applications vying for one position. I don’t know what the field is like for teaching at the high school level.

[Corraleno]

My DS was interested in majoring in Classics until he discovered linguistics, so I looked into grad programs, employment opportunities, etc. It is extremely difficult to get into a PhD program for Classics — like less than 1% admission rates for the better departments. And then the tiny number of PhDs that do get accepted and make it through get to fight for the even rarer faculty position that opens up once in a blue moon. Masters programs are slightly easier to get into, but are generally full-pay and therefore very expensive. 

I wouldn't oppose a Classics major, but I would talk to your son about maybe finding a minor that would give him broader options. Still, most people with degrees in English or History or Philosophy or Sociology or whatever don't end up with careers in those fields, so for most people it's the existence of the degree that matters, not the major.

[RootAnn]

17 hours ago, Janeway said:

Would you be concerned about a teen wanting to major in classics? Have I been wrong to think nothing of it and not be concerned? And how would I go about helping him to explore various paths in life, as it relates to college and such?

I think the important thing to think about here is how much my husband and I would be willing to help pay for a degree in the Classics.

We are a 'full pay' family (probably for everything except a meets-full-need Ivy) that can't/won't pay our full EFC. Thus, the kids all know their college choices are $$ limited. So, whatever that $ amount we can afford (let's say $10k per year) is what we are willing to put forth due to five kids, current living needs, & the need to put aside something for retirement for the two of us. Anything else is on them. With the limits to loans for students, that doesn't leave them very many choices. We are firmly in the camp of not taking out loans or co-signing loans for college.

An engineering degree is generally considered a 'good investment.' Some other degrees are not as highly thought of. My oldest, who is a senior this year, loves languages. The general consensus of Spanish professors is that unless you want to teach Spanish (which my dd doesn't), you really need another major to go with Spanish - something that is more marketable. This made a big impression on my DD. If she chooses a major which may result in her 'living in poverty', that is her choice. But, it is not our choice to put ourselves in financial poverty, too, for that major (or, in our case, any other major!). Does that make sense?

[I agree with the others on this thread about the middle question, above. I'm just specifically addressing this part of the original post.] As far as your last question, there have been many links to career & skill exploration resources posted here. Lori D has a wealth of them in the linked posts at the top of the High School page. His high school counselor likely has some of the same resources that he can avail himself of.

[maize]

17 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

For the avg person, my response would to your post would be no, I wouldn't be concerned.  I have a dd majoring in foreign languages which is similar in job prospects.

That said, I would be concerned about my Aspie wanting to major in a field that does not have a clear path to employment or without understanding how he might handle the job on the other end of the degree.  Has your ds ever held a job? How flexible is his thinking? How does he handle open-ended scenarios? How does he handle having to shift gears without forewarning?

The unemployment and underemployment rate for Aspies is incredibly high.  Academics and holding a job are 2 completely different skill sets.  We know parents of adult Aspies who have kids with masters degrees who cannot hold a job.  When we have met with different states' DRS, college educated Aspies are amg those who cannot hold jobs long-term. Placements for them can be very difficult. Amg Aspies who are employed, underemployment is a huge factor.

Obviously autism is a spectrum disorder and all function differently.  But, major is only a small part of the long-term outcome.

 http://www.diversityjournal.com/9929-is-it-time-for-aspergers-in-the-workplace/ 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/04/21/401243060/young-adults-with-autism-more-likely-to-be-unemployed-isolated

FWIW, our Aspie is 27 yrs old.  He is extremely intelligent and in his college courses he has maintained high grades. (He started back to school this yr after dropping out after 2 yrs when he first graduated from high school.) I am still not convinced he will be able to handle a job in his given goal, though.  He has worked full-time (severely underemployed) for the past 4 yrs, but he struggles with many aspects of holding a job. He currently works at Goodwill and they accept his quirks and struggles b/c they hired him as a disabled worker.  

 

This would be my concern as well.

I have a relative who is almost certainly on the autism spectrum (older generation, back before diagnosis was common). He was good at being a student and even got through  PhD program in a highly employable field but after graduating was always unemployed or underemployed. He didn't have the skills needed to teach or to do other jobs he was academically qualified for.

 

 

[G5052]

One of mine was leaning that way, but I said that a 4-year degree had to be practical in our family because of the time and money involved. He didn't want to teach, so that was that.

My younger one is an English major, but she's focused on professional writing and rhetoric and will have intern opportunities. 

[8filltheheart]

54 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I think the important thing to think about here is how much my husband and I would be willing to help pay for a degree in the Classics.

We are a 'full pay' family (probably for everything except a meets-full-need Ivy) that can't/won't pay our full EFC. Thus, the kids all know their college choices are $$ limited. So, whatever that $ amount we can afford (let's say $10k per year) is what we are willing to put forth due to five kids, current living needs, & the need to put aside something for retirement for the two of us. Anything else is on them. With the limits to loans for students, that doesn't leave them very many choices. We are firmly in the camp of not taking out loans or co-signing loans for college.

An engineering degree is generally considered a 'good investment.' Some other degrees are not as highly thought of. My oldest, who is a senior this year, loves languages. The general consensus of Spanish professors is that unless you want to teach Spanish (which my dd doesn't), you really need another major to go with Spanish - something that is more marketable. This made a big impression on my DD. If she chooses a major which may result in her 'living in poverty', that is her choice. But, it is not our choice to put ourselves in financial poverty, too, for that major (or, in our case, any other major!). Does that make sense?

[I agree with the others on this thread about the middle question, above. I'm just specifically addressing this part of the original post.] As far as your last question, there have been many links to career & skill exploration resources posted here. Lori D has a wealth of them in the linked posts at the top of the High School page. His high school counselor likely has some of the same resources that he can avail himself of.

Yes.  My dd is attending almost entirely on scholarship $$. She is also good at thinking outside of the box and has some back up plans.  (she is thinking that a foreign language online school for homeschoolers might be an option or offering Russian and French classes in person, tutoring, etc as supplementary income.) But, her actual goals include working with an NGO, so $$ has not ever been a focus.

[kirag714]

Look at where a Classics major falls in this list from Kiplinger! If you're not someone who would enjoy engineering or computer science (and sadly none of my children have any tendencies in that direction!), apparently Classics is not such a bad direction to go in: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/business/T012-S001-best-college-majors-for-a-lucrative-career-2019/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3Quc9g3Lvo89sVPYn78swajk2RM8cXVhzEfZLSIU03S4kueZWATFsNnBs

As the parent of a senior also considering Classics, I found this a bit reassuring! 

[Lanny]

Is this the same DS as in the other thread regarding possibly changing from Classics to Math or Physics or something at UT Austin?   I think it is because I remember suggesting that he check into what services UT Austin and other schools being considered can provide to someone with ASD.

In this case, a Double Major or even a Triple Major might be worth his time to look into, with at least one of the Majors offering good potential for employment after he graduates.

Good luck to him!

[Janeway]

3 hours ago, Lanny said:

Is this the same DS as in the other thread regarding possibly changing from Classics to Math or Physics or something at UT Austin?   I think it is because I remember suggesting that he check into what services UT Austin and other schools being considered can provide to someone with ASD.

In this case, a Double Major or even a Triple Major might be worth his time to look into, with at least one of the Majors offering good potential for employment after he graduates.

Good luck to him!

He has never been interested in UT Austin. My other post was meant to seek out information of things I should know or consider, such as not being able to change one's major, like UT Austin, about schools in this college search. I had only just found out about OU being that way in the day or so prior to making that post and had intended to have my son look at OU. After learning OU might be the same way, I decided that OU should probably be off the list too. 

 

He really wants to do classics but when I have asked him if he is sure, he says yes, mostly, but if he did change, it would likely be math pr physics, But, it is not so much of a...considering changing. I only suspect he might change because he originally was all about doing Latin. Eventually, he moved on to classics. And most recently, when he saw UTD and I told him they do not have upper level courses in Latin, he said that would be okay with him. He would major in philosophy if he went to UTD. This was all said in the context of us visiting there and me telling him that UTD is known for scholarships (among other things of course, they have a great ATEC program and engineering and science, etc). He realizes that where he can go to school will be dictated by where he can get financial aid. I have warned him we can look at schools but do not get his heart set on on specific school until after we see what the financial aid will be like. The financial aid situation is really the biggie for us. 

[Lanny]

Janeway: Thank you for the clarification.   Have you (or better, your DS) confirmed that with OU? Also about possible resources for ASD?    If not I believe that you need to contact them and ask your questions.   If he were to change, from Classics to Math or Physics or some other STEM Major, that would be a huge leap "from the Frying Pan into the Fire"  and there are many courses with Prerequisites and he might not be able to graduate in 4 years.  My DD has applied "Undeclared" and the big possible drawback I see to that, would be if she were to then decide on a STEM Major and need to cope with courses with Prerequisites.  I understand about the Financial Aid. We are in the same boat. Good luck to your DS!

[JazzyMom]

Has he looked at UT Austin’s Plan II degree?  It’s a liberal arts degree.

Edited March 3, 2019 by JazzyMom