Difficult Conversations for DD

[jen3kids]

How can I help my daughter (19) be comfortable talking to her boss about fewer hours and the fact that she feels their 'training style' is overwhelming and not helpful (to her)?

She gets anxious and almost always cries when she has to talk about stuff like this face to face.  She needs to ask for fewer hours and see if they can do her training differently - she doesn't get to learn one thing and move on to the next.  For example, after a pet's exam, she was shown how to input the vet's notes into the computer but then didn't get to do that again for 3 days and by then had forgotten how they prefer/need it to be done.    

DH talked to her about the possibility that perhaps this vet's office isn't a good fit and she should look elsewhere for experience (she could volunteer at the local SPCA and choose her hours), but she feels like this vet's office has invested time and $ into training her so she shouldn't leave, plus everyone is so nice and helpful there. 

We love dd's sweet temperament and her support for people/jobs, but she needs to do what is best for her.  She knows that, but she cannot handle putting it into action - the thought of it paralyzes her and brings tears to her eyes.  

  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would not ask for a different kind of training.  I would, however, advise her to take notes during the training.  Are the fewer hours for health reasons?  She could couch it that way, if so. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I agree with Jean - she needs to adapt to the learning environment, if she can. If they are kind and helpful, maybe they wouldn't mind if she wrote out directions for procedures on index cards, and taped them near the work stations, for example. This would be a good solution if there are several people who have a hard time remembering processes after just one or two explanations. Another option would be to buy a set of index cards on a ring, and make her own manual to keep in the pocket of her smock or apron. A third idea would be to politely interrupt, when someone is about to show her something, to ask if she could record the training on her phone. 

If she felt more in control of her access to information (by having her charts handy, in one form or another), would she still want fewer hours? Or would that relieve the stress enough? (You didn't say why she needs fewer hours, or whether it's full-time; I'm just throwing ideas out there.)

[marbel]

Aw, I feel for your daughter.  Those sorts of conversations were always hard for me; still are sometimes, actually.

Fewer hours - would it be easier for her to put it in writing?  My daughter always emails her manager when she has a difficult request.

Training - in my previous life I was a trainer, and I recently went back to work and have been going through training for my new job. The training she is getting is probably just what's realistic for the job.  On the job training is rarely smooth and methodical unless the work day is very routine. If the things she is learning are not written down in any sort of procedure manual, she should do as Jean suggested and take notes and later (at work if possible, or at home) type or write them up in a bullet-point format. That will help her remember and give her a reference to look back at.  At some point she may be able to pass that to a newer employee.  I've found at my new job a spiral notebook and sticky index tabs works well.  But also, in a fast-paced environment with a variety of tasks, people probably get it that she will need things explained more than once.

Hugs to you, and to her!

Edited October 16, 2018 by marbel

[Liz CA]

It is an ineffective form of training but I wonder if note taking helps. Whenever I have to learn a new program or new procedure, I take notes while someone shows it to me. The I can refer back to notes if something is unclear.

Is she mainly afraid of the vet? Can she approach an officer manager if that person is less intimidating?

Is the reduction in hours request in response to the stressful training style or unrelated?

ETA: Looks like all three of us posted at the same time with the same thoughts.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Liz CA

[JustEm]

In regards to the training, the first thing I would suggests is that she take notes while being taught something new.  Second,  there is nothing wrong with asking something like, "since I really want to get used to the computer system the vet uses, is there a way that I can focus on things that will have me using it more frequently sometime this week."  And that can be applied with any task in the office.  "I really want to master how to read bloodwork (or insert any other task) can we try to find time to for me to focus on that."  It can be hard in a veterinary office to make time for training because it can be a fast paced environment where people forget to delegate because they can do it faster than a new person.  But learning the times of day where it is slower and someone can take the time to allow a new person to spend a little extra time on a task, and then asking them then if you can focus on one specific thing shows initiative.

As for the fewer hours,  a simple explanation is all that is needed.  "Is there a way I can get X number of hours a week instead of my current amount, because XYZ?" 

[EKS]

It is normal for training to proceed this way.  The person doing the training is also trying to do their job, so the trainee will basically shadow the trainer.  Every so often, if there is some downtime, more focused training may occur, but probably not.  

Part of being a good employee is flexibility.  If she can't remember something that was taught three days ago, she just needs to say something like "Remind me again about [whatever it is]."  And she should ask to actually *do* the thing that is being taught as soon as possible, because that will get it in her memory better.  

My point here is that it's not a matter of confronting anyone.  It can simply be a natural exchange.

As for the fewer hours--if she is still training, she really shouldn't be asking for a schedule change.  Frankly, she needs to make herself indispensable before she does that.

The above is assuming that your daughter is neurotypical, of course.  

[JustEm]

Also, how long has she been at the job?  When I was at a veterinary office it probably took a month of part time work for me to feel like I got all the basic tasks down really well. But that was mixed in with constantly being tasked with other stuff too.  There are a lot of things to do as a vet tech or just assistant, and unfortunately you do those things ever day sometimes and never other days.  It is a learning environment that doesn't lend itself for focusing on mastering one task at a time most of the time.  But during the slow periods during the day, specifically during other people's lunch break is a great time to focus on one thing.  If the people she work with are nice and helpful, they already understand the pace of the office and that it takes time to get used to it all

[Annie G]

It’s important for her to understand that nobody expects her to remember everything from being shown once. Or if they do, it’s an unreasonable expectation. It’s totally ok to say you need to be shown something again, and I loved Tibbie’s ideas.  It’s ok to take notes and later make the notecard or ring. Learning a new job is just like learning other material- you have to study and practice sometimes. 

It sounds like she enjoys the job and wants to succeed at it- I would do everything I could to help her make it happen. She could talk to her boss and explain that she’s feeling a little overwhelmed but wants to make it work.  You can help her organize the notes into cards and quiz her on them. You can set small goals- if she gets through this work week you’ll make her favorite dinner to celebrate. Encourage her to set tiny goals and reward herself and if he fails to meet a goal, it’s ok...just move on to the next goal.  Has she ever had anxiety issues before? 

It’s hard watching our kid struggle, and you can’t fix the problem, but you can support her as she works through it. Hugs- been there, done that. 

 

[ktgrok]

I worked in vet clinics for 20 years....lots of people there are great with animals but not great with people, so tell her i tis them, not her, lol. 

I'd suggest she take notes, as others suggested. No one will mind, seriously. And then ask, whenever there is down time, "can you help me practice on the computer again? I want to be sure I get it down". That way she looks pro-active, rather than that she is complaining. Or, yes, she can ask whomever is in charge of the technicians, "Instead of following one person around today, could I stick by the computers for an hour or two and watch/help people putting in their notes, so I can really get that down? Then later maybe help with ______________ for a while? I think I'll learn faster if I can focus on one thing for a while." Seriously, I am 90% sure it will be fine. (other 10 percent is she has some weirdo oddball for a supervisor). 

It isn't that they way she is being taught is what they think is best, it just didn't occur to them to do it another way. If she suggests it I bet it will be fine. Just don't say, "I don't like the way you train me". That's a complaint. Instead, say, "Instead of shadowing Lucy all day, could I spend an hour by the computers first and help everyone put in their notes, so I can really focus on that and get it down?" It should be fine. 

I'd maybe do a day like that, before asking for fewer hours. She may not need fewer hours is she isn't so overwhelmed by everything. 

[katilac]

Why does she want fewer hours? That would affect how she should address it. 

I wouldn't have a specific discussion or send an email saying this way of training isn't working for me, and also I want fewer hours. That's just a bit much for a new employee, imo. 

I agree with taking notes and simply asking people to show her again. It's definitely fine to ask if she can stick with one thing for a while, but don't pair that with any commentary on the way they've been training her. Just ask. They may say yes, but I don't think they're being jerks if they say no, either. 

She should also practice some calming techniques for when things get overwhelming. Deep breathing can be very helpful in the moment. More generally, she needs to intentionally question her thoughts and ponder on the worst that can happen. Everybody at that clinic was in her shoes once, having to learn procedures. Everybody has felt like an idiot and the good thing is that doesn't kill you, lol. What's the worst that can happen? She gets fired. Oh well, that sucks, but people get fired every day and the world keeps on spinning.  There's no need for her to 'fire herself' by moving on to the volunteer job. 

It took me years to realize the sky wasn't going to fall if I screwed up at my job. Life became easier once I accepted that I was going to mess up sometimes, simply because everyone messes up sometimes. 

[Peaceseeker]

Was she hired to work a specific number of hours or amount of days?  These things are usually discussed in the interview.  If it was just a vague statement of part time and she is working 30 hours but really wants 15-20 she should speak up. I agree with the other poster that doing it via writing or email may be easier if she has trouble talking to her supervisor.  

If she was hired to do 25-30 hours or full time (or any set number of hours) and she is finding that to be too much, the job may not be a good fit for her.  They might be willing to try and hire a second person to job share, but it may be hard to find someone who also wants so few hours able to work opposite her days or shifts.  

[RootAnn]

I don't know how you can help her be comfortable talking to the boss and some people who don't have this problem will likely hate my suggestion, but it helps me to write down (in a note to the person) what I feel uncomfortable to say out loud. I hand it to them to read, and I can answer any questions they have but don't have to actually say all the words myself. It is a middle ground to havong to bring it up, say everuthong, and then answer questions. The note breaks the ice and makes it a little bit easier. (It may be some sort of anxiety thing that some of us have.)

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I don't know how you can help her be comfortable talking to the boss and some people who don't have this problem will likely hate my suggestion, but it helps me to write down (in a note to the person) what I feel uncomfortable to say out loud. I hand it to them to read, and I can answer any questions they have but don't have to actually say all the words myself. It is a middle ground to havong to bring it up, say everuthong, and then answer questions. The note breaks the ice and makes it a little bit easier. (It may be some sort of anxiety thing that some of us have.)

I was with you on this except for handing off the note. ? I have written scripts for myself that help me say something difficult, but in the end, I still think it is a must to speak the words. 

I was exactly like this when I was her age. I had no ability to advocate for my needs even when the were simple. Part of my problem was falsly believing I was supposed to know everything/perform all things flawlessly from day one. I once inflicted caffeinated coffee on all the unsuspecting people getting “decaf” because I had been shown one time, had forgotten whether green cartridges were caf or decaf and foolishly did not ask. It would gave been awfully simple to say, “Excuse me, Barb...I forgot whether green is decaf or caf.” Instead I made a whole big canister of the wrong thing! 

I agree with having her note steps on her phone or on index cards and asking for the opportunity to practice through when it’s a slow period. I think asking for fewer hours is a bad idea unless she has some verifiable health need. 

For myself, I had a job as a vet tech once...lasted two hours. The chaotic, frantic pace of morning routines, coupled with medical stuff (catheters, tubes, needles, etc.) was not right for me to the extreme. The job I got instead was at a hair salon, which suited me much better because it was very methodical (not unpredictable) and didn’t involve medical things. 

[jen3kids]

Thank you everyone!  I appreciate all the responses.

She has struggled with speaking up for herself, having unrealistic expectations, and anxiety for quite a while.  She is seeing a therapist to help her deal with the anxiety.

She worked at the vet's office on Tuesday and she did a lot of computer work - entering information and the like.  She said it went better and she's not sure why.  Yesterday she did a lot of animal holding/restraint for exams and it went well too (including the 20 year old kitty that peed on her!).  She does take notes (and is encouraged to by the staff).  Because she was feeling better and more confident, she asked questions and got answers.  Everyone there is really nice and patient, and none of them are 'crazy' animal people.  She said the vet is a little intimidating because she's always in a rush, but on the few occasions they've had a bit of down time, she explains things and is relatively easy to talk to.

I asked dd what her what has been different these past 2 days and she said she just felt calmer and more more in control.  I'm assuming that it has quite a bit to do with the fact that on Monday she quit her other part time job at the local ice cream store - something she has wanted to do for quite awhile but felt guilty doing because it will leave them a bit short staffed, but she was unable to handle those hours on top of school and the vet job.  She now knows she has free time and isn't running from A to B to C.  

I asked if she is able to handle being at the vet clinic 5 days a week now, and she thinks she can because the other job won't be 'waiting' for her.  She is mid-way through the semester at CC and has high marks in all 3 classes, so that is a relief to her, as she is applying to their Vet Tech program in April. 

[lmrich]

Glad to hear a good report. 

My dd has anxiety as well. I have her practice what she is going to say when she is nervous. My dd's therapist has recommend more exercise, more sunshine, and a probiotic and some magnesium. DD has started yoga. We are hopeful that all of those along with therapy will contine to make a difference. BUT we know there will be set-backs along the way. 

[jen3kids]

28 minutes ago, lmrich said:

Glad to hear a good report. 

My dd has anxiety as well. I have her practice what she is going to say when she is nervous. My dd's therapist has recommend more exercise, more sunshine, and a probiotic and some magnesium. DD has started yoga. We are hopeful that all of those along with therapy will contine to make a difference. BUT we know there will be set-backs along the way. 

 

DD's dr has recommended yoga, but dd is resistant.  Even the dietitian we met with last night to address her long-standing GI issues recommended it.  I'm am hopeful that she will give it a try.  But, she really hates being rushed from one thing to another, even if it is something supposedly 'fun'.  

[katilac]

2 hours ago, jen3kids said:

 

DD's dr has recommended yoga, but dd is resistant.  Even the dietitian we met with last night to address her long-standing GI issues recommended it.  I'm am hopeful that she will give it a try.  But, she really hates being rushed from one thing to another, even if it is something supposedly 'fun'.  

 

She can just do yoga at home. There are tons of books and videos. Yoga has helped me tremendously and I've never taken a class. I actually started with the old Wii Fit, lol. 

[ktgrok]

I bet the anxiety about quitting the other place was making it hard for her to think clearly and remember things when being taught stuff at the vet clinic. Anxiety will do that ?  Now that she's less anxious what before seemed hard to remember is simple ?

[lmrich]

You don't want to rush yoga!

 

I love, love, love this lady: Adriene

You can do it home with her or just do it yourself so she can see how easy and beneficial it is to start a yoga practice. 

[Annie G]

Glad things are looking up!