Anyone with germaphobia OCD or a spouse of one?

[SquirrellyMama]

Ok, my dh has a big fear of germs. I posted about it here once and got schooled ? I need some advice living with this.

If your kids get a cold do you or your spouse allow them in the living aread of the house or do they have to stay in theor room?

I have a child with a cold right now, and I've just been telling her not to say mich to her dad, and to male sure she's washing her hands.

If he knew she would be quarantined to her room. Actually, she would be moved to another room that has an attached bathroom, and wouldn't be allowed to use the main bathroom. 

I'm trying to figure out if we should just go along with it, hide it when a kid has a cold, or tell him he has to be the one quarantined. 

I'm at a loss. He's seeing a therapist. I recently suggested medication, but he's reading a book right now with other suggestions that include diet, exercise, and sleep - and no medication.

Thanks,

Kelly

[Farrar]

I'm not totally sure, but it doesn't seem like it's healthy for the household/marriage for you to keep it from him that one of the kids in the house has a cold. Isn't it just going to increase his fear?

It would never occur to me to ban someone from the living areas and bathrooms. Our house is too small and we don't have those issues here though.

[SquirrellyMama]

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm not totally sure, but it doesn't seem like it's healthy for the household/marriage for you to keep it from him that one of the kids in the house has a cold. Isn't it just going to increase his fear?

It would never occur to me to ban someone from the living areas and bathrooms. Our house is too small and we don't have those issues here though.

I agree and I do feel bad for keeping it from him. But, I also feel awful for the kids being banned to one room. Our house isn't huge either. We happen to have a small extra room in the basement attached to a very small bathroom. 

As for increasing his fear... I don't know. It's a crap shoot really whether the truth or a lie increases his fear. Just depends on his mood I think.

I'm torn. 

Kelly

Edited September 29, 2018 by SquirrellyMama

[SquirrellyMama]

And, a cold can last for 2 weeks! He won't come anywhere near them for those 2 weeks, and they get scolded if they come upstairs. 

Kelly

[alisoncooks]

In families with lots of kids, someone always has a cold! I would not quarantine the kid. I would encourage DH to wear a mask if he was afraid of contamination. 

[SquirrellyMama]

3 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

In families with lots of kids, someone always has a cold! I would not quarantine the kid. I would encourage DH to wear a mask if he was afraid of contamination. 

Off topic first, what an adorable dog in your picture.

Back on topic, I have to figure out a way to talk to him about this. Our communication sucks on this issue ?

[alisoncooks]

1 minute ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Off topic first, what an adorable dog in your picture.

Thank you. He was a sweet boy who passed almost exactly 2 years ago.

[bolt.]

It could be damaging to a child to teach her that mild sickness means that she deserves to be isolated. Isolating a child would be the “least ok” option to me. It would never cross my mind to add rejection and loneliness to a child feeling sick — as a procedure for her whole childhood. I’d be certain that she should grow up with “germ issues” too!

Keeping it from him, though, also doesn’t feel good. It seems like he should be able to make a decision to isolate himself if he wants too — but would he say difficult things to her?

It wouldn’t take much (A comment? Even body language or faces?) to convince a child that she was unwanted and unloved by a dad who felt so strongly about the germs she was carrying.

It’s touchy, but I think the goal is to keep your husband’s difficulties from hurting your child.

What are your ideas?

Edited September 30, 2018 by bolt.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I have a daughter with germaphobia OCD.

I understand that it can be difficult to communicate about. The reaction of that person when someone else shows a sign of illness can seem quite self-centred or even rude at times. It helps me to remember that my daughter reacts in a true fight-or-flight panic response. She doesn't choose this and she doesn't want to respond like that. 

It helps us to name it as OCD. It's less personal for everyone then. I've heard professionals say 'name it to tame it'.

Another thing that has helped us is counselling. My daughter's counsellor has talked a lot with her about building immunity, herd immunity, healthy levels of exposure etc.  It's slow progress, but it's progress.

I know it's not easy. All the best.

[Selkie]

I have OCD. This situation you are describing is so wrong. My #1 rule has always been to do everything I possibly can to make sure my OCD does not impact my children, and that is what your dh should be doing, too.

By hiding sickness from him or going along with his demands to isolate your child, you are babying him and catering to his OCD. He will never get better that way.

He needs to face his fears, grit his teeth, and force himself to be around his sick child. Yes, he may catch germs, but it will be good for him because he will see that the world does not end just because he caught a cold.

I've never been on medication, but my OCD is so much better than it used to be because I constantly force myself to confront my fears and deal with them rather than hide. That's what your dh needs to do; I hope he starts soon, for the sake of you and the kids. Hugs. 

[Kidlit]

I have a child with extreme contamination OCD.  She (we—she was only 9 at the time) spent 12 weeks a few summers ago in a partial hospitalization program for it.  This was a real watershed in our family’s life.  She is still in therapy and also on medication to manage it. 

The gold standard treatment for clinical OCD is Exposure Response Prevention therapy.  This means that in order to habituate the anxiety, the person with OCD must be exposed to the subject of his or her obsessive thoughts without responding with his or her compulsion. (There is also such a thing as Pure-O OCD, which is obsession without the compulsion, though if your dh is actively avoiding, he probably doesn’t have the pure-O form. ). We actually had to go out of state and basically upend our whole life for our dd’s treatment, but it was worth it. 

 

Anyway, I’m not a doctor (nor do I play one on TV ?), but I feel compelled (see what I did there? We laugh to keep from crying! ?) to chime in on this topic when I remain silent on almost all others. 

[maize]

Catering to OCD does not help anything and can, in my opinion, exacerbate the OCD.

Letting OCD control other family members is not OK. You guys can follow normal doctor recommended hygiene procedures; for a cold, quarantine is not a standard recommendation.

Have you studied OCD at all? There are lots of books out there, the first one I read when my dh was diagnosed was Brain Lock and it did give me some helpful insights.

If your husband must cater to his illness he needs to do so in ways that primarily affect him, not someone else. He can quarantine himself or wear a mask. Hopefully his therapist will work with him on talking back to the OCD and using exposure to decrease the influence of his triggers.

[maize]

Does his therapist have experience in treating OCD? It can be a bit of a specialized field of practice and doesn't necessarily respond to generic therapy approaches.

[Kidlit]

4 minutes ago, maize said:

Does his therapist have experience in treating OCD? It can be a bit of a specialized field of practice and doesn't necessarily respond to generic therapy approaches.

Echoing what Maize says here—our experience has been that therapists trained in treating OCD are hard to come by.  Dd’s therapist is not local to us.  

I recommmend checking out the IOCDF website and the Peace of Mind Foundation. 

[alisoncooks]

I'm also wondering how your DH functions at work. If he's able to work through exposure there, you could perhaps point that out. Your child should (at the very least) be afforded the same tolerance that he gives his coworkers. 

[maize]

4 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Our communication sucks on this issue ?

Probably because he is not able to think about or discuss it rationally.

[maize]

15 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

And, a cold can last for 2 weeks! He won't come anywhere near them for those 2 weeks, and they get scolded if they come upstairs. 

Kelly

Your husband's behavior is abusive towards his children.

Not because he wants to abuse them, but because he (and you if you allow this) are letting his OCD make the decisions and OCD doesn't know how to treat family members.

I know this is hard. I've walked a similar path. You are going to have to stand up to the OCD and, if you can, help him get the help he needs to stand up to it as well.

I am so sorry he and you and your children are dealing with this.

Edited September 30, 2018 by maize

[Acadie]

I would try to think what reasonable accommodations I and other family members could make, and what is up to him. 

I might commit to cleaning bathrooms on a certain schedule, and have disinfectant wipes available in the bathroom for him to do an extra wipedown at any time. When we have really nasty GI or respiratory bugs in our house that I don't want transmitted to anyone else, I'll wipe down doorknobs and switch plates throughout the house, but I don't do that for a common cold.

All family members would be welcome in common living areas and bathrooms. If your master bedroom and/or bath can be set aside for adults, that would be ok with me, as long as main living areas and bath are open to all. So I'd be more inclined to have him sequester himself, if he wants to. When kids have colds here, they don't empty the dishwasher or serve food, but they do help with kitchen cleanup unless they're so sick they need to rest. Rather than hiding illness I'd try to clarify family expectations, and also leave him some room to do more for himself if he wants.

The details matter for this, I think. See a therapist for yourself, if you like, to come up with a plan that is emotionally healthy for everyone and that you feel comfortable with. If he's asking for something way beyond the bounds of normal hygiene that might hurt someone's feelings, let him know and ask him to deal with it in his own therapy.

We don't use cold meds much here, but I'd be more inclined to do so with the issues you describe, to make it more livable for everyone. I'm also a stickler for washing hands when we come home from public places like the library, school and sports during the height of cold season.

And make sure you love up your babies and nurture them when they're sick. It's very important they feel parental love and care both in sickness and in health.

Amy

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am thinking that a cold that he doesn’t even notice must be pretty mild. 

[nixpix5]

13 hours ago, hopeistheword said:

I have a child with extreme contamination OCD.  She (we—she was only 9 at the time) spent 12 weeks a few summers ago in a partial hospitalization program for it.  This was a real watershed in our family’s life.  She is still in therapy and also on medication to manage it. 

The gold standard treatment for clinical OCD is Exposure Response Prevention therapy.  This means that in order to habituate the anxiety, the person with OCD must be exposed to the subject of his or her obsessive thoughts without responding with his or her compulsion. (There is also such a thing as Pure-O OCD, which is obsession without the compulsion, though if your dh is actively avoiding, he probably doesn’t have the pure-O form. ). We actually had to go out of state and basically upend our whole life for our dd’s treatment, but it was worth it. 

 

Anyway, I’m not a doctor (nor do I play one on TV ?), but I feel compelled (see what I did there? We laugh to keep from crying! ?) to chime in on this topic when I remain silent on almost all others. 

This is the gold standard of treatment and he should be in a program with some level of exposure therapy. It is the only treatment that truly works long term for most anxieties.

I feel for your tough spot. It isn't fair to the kids and his anxieties can be transferred on to them and create similar health anxieties which will impact their lives in more ways than this. Is there anyway you can join him for a therapy session to discuss this? Does he understand that his over the top response is part of his illness or does it feel rationale to him? Does he take the attitude that you all should understand and except his struggles or is he trying to overcome in these moments? If you see him making attempts that is such a different situation than him not owning this as an anxiety struggle and taking steps. 

[Mergath]

I have OCD. Germs aren't one of my triggers, but environmental toxins are, so it's a bit similar.

Whatever book he's reading that's telling him to avoid meds, get lots of sleep and go for a walk every day needs to be introduced to the nearest fire. People with untreated OCD have one of the highest suicide rates among all mental illness, and in my experience and those of people I've talked to, generally being healthy doesn't work. I wish it did.

You aren't going to be able to discuss this in any meaningful way with your dh because he can't think rationally about it. A person with OCD can be perfectly rational and calm 90% of the time, but once one of their triggers is hit, you might as well be trying to reason with a person with untreated paranoid schizophrenia. Logic is out the window. It doesn't matter what you say; whatever the person is freaking out about is bad, the worst kind of bad ever, and no amount of communication is going to talk them into believing otherwise. Even if you can talk enough circles around them to get them to believe it isn't so bad for fifteen minutes, the person's brain will take it up a level. "Okay, so maybe a cold isn't going to kill me, but can you prove she doesn't have <insert horrible disease here>?"

He needs medication and appropriate therapy from an anxiety specialist, not vitamins and walks in the woods. Don't bother quarantining him or anyone else- it's not going to help and might actually make things worse.

[SquirrellyMama]

52 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

Can you speak to the therapist?

In general, is he at a point where he knows he needs to adapt to the world, not the world adapt to him? If so, I'd invoke cold protocol, with cleaning the faucets and other common touch points routinely so the germs don't spread, as well as washing hands and not touching face with hands.  This is actually a good routine, so that when pneumonia or another contagious diseases arrives, the family knows what to do.

This is what I'm wondering. Csn I talk to his therapist? I don't know. I should email her and find out what she cam legally do.

No, he is not at the point of knowing he needs to adapt. 

Kelly

[maize]

1 minute ago, SquirrellyMama said:

This is what I'm wondering. Csn I talk to his therapist? I don't know. I should email her and find out what she cam legally do.

No, he is not at the point of knowing he needs to adapt. 

Kelly

His therapist cannot talk to you about him/his treatment without his permission, but you can absolutely contact her and share information that would be good for her to know (such as his inappropriate efforts to impose OCD-triggered restrictions on family members).

I have found it usually works best for me to attend my spouse's therapy sessions, but that won't work for every couple/situation dynamic.

[maize]

Medication has been very helpful for my dh.

[KungFuPanda]

I’d quarantine the Dh before I’d isolate the child. Still, with a couple kids and Winter coming he could conceivably be off the hook parenting-wise for months. Parents don’t GET that sort of time off. 

I think I’d keep answering these demands with “That’s not normal. The kids aren’t living like that.” I do feel for the Dh because I’m sure he doesn’t WANT to fear colds, but expecting the kids, especially when they don’t feel well, to manage his illness too is absurd.  

If he wants to channel this ocd Into something positive and sanitize the whole house, I’d encourage HIM to do so.

Any chance you can sell mild sniffles as allergies? That might diffuse the situation until a long term solution can be found. I KNOW that the hive will say NEVER lie, but in MY family putting all appointments on the calendar 15-20 minutes before they actually begin has made everyone’s life better. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I just want to pop in again and say that I really feel for you all.

OCD is hard. Untreated OCD is even harder.

Also, one bit of wisdom we've picked up is that you can't tackle everything at once. It's too hard. Progress needs to be made in small steps. Some accommodations can be helpful to make those small steps.

Some of my most difficult and upsetting times with my daughter have been when she's experiencing an O and is trying so so so hard to resist the C. Her internal battle in that moment is severe. Resisting that urge to do the C to relieve the anxiety is so so so difficult. It can result in literal hair-pulling and skin-scratching.

Right now my daughter's hands are red and lumpy from overwashing. This is a success though, as she's washing less often and for less time each time. Small steps. 

I think that a big step is having the person identify that the issue is OCD and truly tackling it for what it is with the help of professionals.

I wish you all the best. 

[BeachGal]

Medication and psychotherapy do not work for all people with OCD. These are the people who need other treatment options. For some with treatment-resistant OCD, Schwartz's method has worked (and some of those individuals were suicidal). There are also a number of small studies being done on individuals using devices like rTMS and DBS (repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation and deep brain stimulation).

[Mergath]

15 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

Medication and psychotherapy do not work for all people with OCD. These are the people who need other treatment options. For some with treatment-resistant OCD, Schwartz's method has worked (and some of those individuals were suicidal). There are also a number of small studies being done on individuals using devices like rTMS and DBS (repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation and deep brain stimulation).

 

No, but they make a meaningful improvement to quality of life so often for people with OCD that it's the logical place to begin.

[BeachGal]

20 minutes ago, Mergath said:

 

No, but they make a meaningful improvement to quality of life so often for people with OCD that it's the logical place to begin.

 

Only if they respond favorably to either (meds or psychotherapy). Some don't respond well to anything. Nothing changes for them. That is the problem. What works for one/some does not work for all which is why more treatment options would be helpful.

Edited October 1, 2018 by BeachGal

[Mergath]

The problem is that sometimes you have to go through a LOT of meds to find one your body responds favorably to. My dh is bipolar and has a terrible reaction to 95% of meds. But that 5% that does work has changed his life. 

[Kidlit]

Regarding the problem of finding the right medication, I recommend genetic testing to ascertain any metabolic issues with different meds.  I know this doesn't always yield a solution, but pairing that with a very knowledgeable pediatric psychiatrist helped us stabilize dd without endless trials of meds.  

[BeachGal]

14 hours ago, Mergath said:

The problem is that sometimes you have to go through a LOT of meds to find one your body responds favorably to. My dh is bipolar and has a terrible reaction to 95% of meds. But that 5% that does work has changed his life. 

 

Mergath, there are only so many medications available to try. Some people do not respond well to any. A very conservative estimate of those with treatment-resistant OCD is 10% but other estimates are around 40%. These individuals have tried the medications and psychotherapy and they didn't help. They and their family suffer for decades. My father and other relatives and friends work(ed) in the pharmaceutical industry developing drugs and overseeing studies. The drugs that are available are not limitless -- or without serious drawbacks -- so other methods of treatment are being developed and they're working on some of these people. Having more available options means more people can be successfully treated.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, BeachGal said:

 

Mergath, there are only so many medications available to try. Some people do not respond well to any. A very conservative estimate of those with treatment-resistant OCD is 10% but other estimates are around 40%. These individuals have tried the medications and psychotherapy and they didn't help. They and their family suffer for decades. My father and other relatives and friends work(ed) in the pharmaceutical industry developing drugs and overseeing studies. The drugs that are available are not limitless -- or without serious drawbacks -- so other methods of treatment are being developed and they're working on some of these people. Having more available options means more people can be successfully treated.

But the point is that the OPs dh has not tried the medications or psychotherapy. You don’t know if you might be resistant if you haven’t even tried them to begin with. 

Even a 40% resistance rate means that they work for more than half the people with OCD. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jean in Newcastle

[BeachGal]

7 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

But the point is that the OPs dh has not tried the medications or psychotherapy. You don’t know if you might be resistant if you haven’t even tried them to begin with. 

Even a 40% resistance rate means that they work for more than half the people with OCD. 

 

Yes, that's true. I'm not disagreeing with that.

In the OP's case, something like motivational interviewing (MI) techniques might help him to seek treatment. It's a way of conducting a conversation so that the listener's autonomy is maintained (they're not being told what to do) and the interviewer (could be a wife) responds in a way that the listener develops a plan for himself. Medical personnel are learning how to have these conversations with their patients in order to get them to become more compliant with treatment. MI can be used in many different situations actually. My husband and I are using it to help our relationships with our adult children.

What I'm responding to is the idea brought up in a thread that mentioned other treatments don't help. That's not true. My point is that people should have treatment options.