Cat people, help me brainstorm...UPDATED 9/14 (update in 1st post)

[TheReader]

...need a way to keep our dog door usable by the dogs, but unappealing/unusable by our kitten. So, a deterrent, an actual "she won't be able to do it...", something. 

She's a Maine Coon mix, so will get big, so we need something convincing enough now that she'll quit trying (because if we do, say, a weight....one day she'll be strong enough to do it). And, since she's Maine Coon, water is not proving to be a deterrent, pretty much at all.

So far we've tried:

*aluminum foil on the floor in front of the inside & outside of the door; she lounged around on it....

*squirting her with a squirt bottle every time we catch her near the door; she's totally unfazed by that at all...

*a magnetic closure on the flaps (we have double flap style dog door) to make it harder for her, but still ok for the dogs; she could still manage (but one of the dogs became more hesitant)

*a bristle broom, installed bristle side up in the space between the flaps, thinking she won't want to go over it, but it's low enough the dogs won't be bothered; she hasn't tried yet, but one dog is refusing to use the dog door now, so not sure we can keep this in or not...

*a water trap (set up a pan FULL of water on the outside side, and DH sat out w/a bucket to drench her when she came through; we coaxed her through, DH drenched her, she came in.....and within an hour was sitting looking at the dog door again)

Luckily, this door goes into the garage, and she hasn't yet found the one from garage to outside, but for her safety we really want to convince her this is a bad idea. We have cars, dogs, coyotes, etc. around us. For the dogs' sake, though, we need to keep the dog door. Worst case scenario, we spend $100+ on the sort with the sensor for the dogs to wear, but we're hoping not to have to do that. The Large size is bigger than what we currently have, and we'd rather not spend that much money & time swapping out our existing dog door for that one. 

So....hit me with your best ideas. What can we do to deter the kitten w/o making the dogs skittish/refuse to use the door.....??

 

UPDATE 9/14 -- the brush seems to be working! We have a double flap style dog door, so there's a space between the flaps. We put the bristle side of a push broom (handheld size), bristles up, between the flaps. This makes it harder to push the flaps *and* uncomfortable to get through. The dogs have adjusted, the cat hasn't been trying anymore, and so far, so good. 

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions! Hopefully this can help others in the future...

Edited September 14, 2018 by TheReader

[fairfarmhand]

I think there are pet doorscthat only work if the pet is wearing a particular collar. Kind of an invisible fence type radio collar that allows the door to open.

[TheReader]

2 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

That's a tough one! Maybe don't have dog doors at all and train your dogs to sit by the door when they want out?? I don't know any other suggestions....sorry

This works when we're home, but we need them to still have access to outside if we're not home; there are long stretches of daytime when everyone is away from the house. Thanks, though!

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

I think there are pet doorscthat only work if the pet is wearing a particular collar. Kind of an invisible fence type radio collar that allows the door to open.

Yes, this is our back-up plan/worst case scenario. Those doors are $100+, and much larger than the one we currently have, so the cost + time/effort to swap out one for the other, we're hoping to avoid this if we can. Thanks, though!

[Okra]

Well, I don't have any stellar ideas for you.

But, we have used a product line this for different problem behaviors with great success. Basically, it's just really wide easy to place sticky double sided tape. My cats hate it with a passion and it helps with problem behaviors.

https://www.chewy.com/smartcat-sticky-paws-on-roll/dp/49154?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=SmartCat&utm_term=&gclid=CjwKCAjw_b3cBRByEiwAdG8Wqv89fd5KOjD0rSdSs7qsD0lVu4--3O6KSPlGilA4jTbWrjgCyIM5MxoCLREQAvD_BwE

There are several different places to buy it, so look around. Honestly, I'm not sure it would work on your situation. But, it's not too expensive to try.

Good luck!

[TheReader]

29 minutes ago, Okra said:

Well, I don't have any stellar ideas for you.

But, we have used a product line this for different problem behaviors with great success. Basically, it's just really wide easy to place sticky double sided tape. My cats hate it with a passion and it helps with problem behaviors.

https://www.chewy.com/smartcat-sticky-paws-on-roll/dp/49154?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=SmartCat&utm_term=&gclid=CjwKCAjw_b3cBRByEiwAdG8Wqv89fd5KOjD0rSdSs7qsD0lVu4--3O6KSPlGilA4jTbWrjgCyIM5MxoCLREQAvD_BwE

There are several different places to buy it, so look around. Honestly, I'm not sure it would work on your situation. But, it's not too expensive to try.

Good luck!

ooh, that *could* work, maybe....she gets out the door by lifting  a corner of it, whereas the dogs just push through. We *might* be able to put some on the edges in such a way that she has to touch it, but the dogs don't.......maybe. 

Worth considering at least. Thanks!

[katilac]

I think you're going to have to go the electric sensor route, sorry. 

ime, it's practically impossible to prevent a curious, active cat who WANTS to go outside from doing so, if there are routinely in a room where there is a pet door or frequently opened human door. 

fwis, female Maine Coons don't get nearly as big as males, so a weighted door might work. It depends on the relative strength of your dogs, lol. You could certainly weight it now and solve the problem for the moment (I have no idea how you would do that, but since you said it I assume there's a way!). 

[73349]

Is there a noise that would offend the cat but not bother the dogs?

[Selkie]

Is there a way to keep the cat out of the room that has the dog door?

[Pen]

 Even an electronic sensor may not work. I have had cat who are smart enough to walk under a dog or close enough to get through with the dog. 

 

[katilac]

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 Even an electronic sensor may not work. I have had cat who are smart enough to walk under a dog or close enough to get through with the dog. 

 

 

Good point! I can totally see a cat training a dog to open the door ?

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

That's a tough one! Maybe don't have dog doors at all and train your dogs to sit by the door when they want out?? I don't know any other suggestions....sorry

This. 

When you are not home, or can not supervise, confine the cat to a room that doesn’t have access to the dog door 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Pen

[Pen]

FWIW we have cars, dogs, cougars, raccoons, Fox, hawks, etc., and our cats have mostly survived being indoor/outdoor animals, and I think are happier with a more active largely outdoor life.  Though I kept them supervised outside when they were kittens. 

[katilac]

12 minutes ago, Pen said:

FWIW we have cars, dogs, cougars, raccoons, Fox, hawks, etc., and our cats have mostly survived being indoor/outdoor animals, and I think are happier with a more active largely outdoor life.  Though I kept them supervised outside when they were kittens. 

 

We have indoor/outdoor cats also.  Inside only is really not a choice for us, as we have an open floor plan, two doors that open and close numerous times a day for the humans, and cats who love the outdoors. I do think being able to go outside greatly increases the quality of life for cats, humans, and other animals. This doesn't have to mean free roaming, necessarily, but I can't imagine being inside 24/7. 

[TheReader]

2 hours ago, whitehawk said:

Is there a noise that would offend the cat but not bother the dogs?

Not sure; not sure what we could rig up that would create a sound to startle the cat but not the dogs, either....I am open to suggestions if you have one. 

2 hours ago, Selkie said:

Is there a way to keep the cat out of the room that has the dog door?

Not really; it's just a little side alcove off the front door. 

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 Even an electronic sensor may not work. I have had cat who are smart enough to walk under a dog or close enough to get through with the dog. 

 

Ha! I could see her doing this. Or learning that the door stays unlocked for x number of seconds and following along behind them, or whatever. Another reason we're hoping not to spend the $$$ to use this method, just in case....

1 hour ago, katilac said:

 

Good point! I can totally see a cat training a dog to open the door ?

 

1 hour ago, Pen said:

This. 

When you are not home, or can not supervise, confine the cat to a room that doesn’t have access to the dog door 

Hmm, this *might* be possible. We could perhaps find a way to confine her when we can't supervise....I can't imagine she'll be happy with that, but it's a possibility. 

[katilac]

7 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Hmm, this *might* be possible. We could perhaps find a way to confine her when we can't supervise....I can't imagine she'll be happy with that, but it's a possibility. 

1

 

My cats are evil and would probably revenge-pee if confined to a room. Your cat might have a less dark soul, though. 

[TheReader]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

FWIW we have cars, dogs, cougars, raccoons, Fox, hawks, etc., and our cats have mostly survived being indoor/outdoor animals, and I think are happier with a more active largely outdoor life.  Though I kept them supervised outside when they were kittens. 

 

1 hour ago, katilac said:

 

We have indoor/outdoor cats also.  Inside only is really not a choice for us, as we have an open floor plan, two doors that open and close numerous times a day for the humans, and cats who love the outdoors. I do think being able to go outside greatly increases the quality of life for cats, humans, and other animals. This doesn't have to mean free roaming, necessarily, but I can't imagine being inside 24/7. 

Hmmm. 

We always had indoor/outdoor cats in the past, then we had a really awful experience with that while living in Brazil (we actually ended up having to get rid of a cat over this issue; long story). When we got a cat after our return to the US, we kept her inside only and she does fine with this. That cat was 2 when we adopted her from the shelter (she'd been in the shelter 6 months), and she's 4 now and is content to have supervised time on the patio or porch/backyard when we're present with her. 

This kitten, though, I suspect would be a major roamer if let outside; she climbs, runs, is *very* quick, and I just don't know how we'd keep her contained to the yard if she did get outside, and we just really don't feel comfortable anymore with allowing a free roaming cat after what happened last time, and with the dangers in our neighborhood. 

I am open to suggestions on how to keep a cat indoor/outdoor without letting it become a free roaming cat......and I'm aware this may be a losing battle and we may just end up with an indoor/outdoor/free roaming cat no matter what, and we'll just have to hope for the best.

But our other cat is fully happy indoor only and our kitten lives a pretty cushy, happy, active life inside so I think could be happy if she wasn't so stubborn. She plays fetch with us, has a stack of hideaway boxes in the corner to climb in & out of, hide in, multiple scratching posts of various levels, etc. 

Still, while we'd prefer indoor only, if you guys have tips on how to keep her from going free roaming, I'm open. 

[TheReader]

2 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

My cats are evil and would probably revenge-pee if confined to a room. Your cat might have a less dark soul, though. 

yea, it'd be an issue. She was hell-bent on escaping when we first brought her home and had her isolated in one room while introducing her to the other cat & dogs. From day one, she would wait at the door and just dart out the second we opened it, like lightning. 

This really may just be a losing battle with this girl....

[katilac]

4 minutes ago, TheReader said:

 she's 4 now and is content to have supervised time on the patio or porch/backyard when we're present with her. 

This kitten, though, I suspect would be a major roamer if let outside 

 

 

I think supervised outdoor time is an awesome solution when it works, they are getting outdoor time! It's just really hard to do a lot of the time. 

As she's still a kitten, maybe try getting her used to a cat harness and leash? I've seen people use them in Petco and such. We haven't had luck but we also haven't been diligent about teaching and training, the kittens came along at a very busy time for us. 

[stephanier.1765]

I agree with you having to go the expensive route. I have a Maine Coon and they are stubborn critters. If he wants to do something, you pretty much have to wrestle him to make him stop. And he is uncanny fast! I can open the door just enough to let my little dog in and even with me standing right there trying to block him, he can squeeze that big ol' body of his through the door as I'm shutting it. I feel your frustration. This is why we don't have a dog door.

[TheReader]

1 minute ago, stephanier.1765 said:

I agree with you having to go the expensive route. I have a Maine Coon and they are stubborn critters. If he wants to do something, you pretty much have to wrestle him to make him stop. And he is uncanny fast! I can open the door just enough to let my little dog in and even with me standing right there trying to block him, he can squeeze that big ol' body of his through the door as I'm shutting it. I feel your frustration. This is why we don't have a dog door.

YES! When we first got her, we had her confined to one room while the other animals got used to her scent. We'd go in, fully body-blocking the door and foot in the gap, etc, and before the door was open enough for my foot to wedge in, she'd already be out and in the room across the hall, like a shot of lightning. "uncanny fast" is exactly it. :sigh:

We're holding out hope that *maybe* the current deterrents will sink in and work, but not a lot of hope. I've never had a cat (or dog, for that matter) quite this stubborn....

[TheReader]

6 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

I think supervised outdoor time is an awesome solution when it works, they are getting outdoor time! It's just really hard to do a lot of the time. 

As she's still a kitten, maybe try getting her used to a cat harness and leash? I've seen people use them in Petco and such. We haven't had luck but we also haven't been diligent about teaching and training, the kittens came along at a very busy time for us. 

ooh, we could try that. She's young enough yet that we might be able to do that, and maybe it would satisfy her. 

[ktgrok]

I'd buy one that uses a special tag you put on the dog's collars, so they can activate it and the cat can't. 

[lmrich]

Our cat is not very bright... We have a dog door on the porch that goes outside that I did not want him to use so we just locked it for his first few weeks when he was in that room (we can close that room off), and he just gave up. We just opened the door to the let the dog out for that week or so. But again, this is not a smart cat. Sweet and loving but not very smart. And he watches the dog use it.

[scrapbookbuzz]

Why do you want to keep the cat inside?

[stephanier.1765]

3 minutes ago, scrapbookbuzz said:

Why do you want to keep the cat inside?

I don't know about other people but when I adopted mine I had to sign a paper agreeing to keep them inside. Besides, it is much healthier for a cat to live indoors. They don't bring the outdoors in. But they do get bored and trying to keep up with a bored cat is no fun. I try to play mine into exhaustion.

[scrapbookbuzz]

I've always been an indoor/outdoor cat person. Cats have lived outside for years. Yes, I understand the "live longer inside" sentiment but honestly, I want them to be happy, too. Not to say they wouldn't be inside, I just think they're happier when they can get outside, as well.

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by scrapbookbuzz

[ktgrok]

46 minutes ago, scrapbookbuzz said:

I've always been an indoor/outdoor cat person. Cats have lived outside for years. Yes, I understand the "live longer inside" sentiment but honestly, I want them to be happy, too. Not to say they wouldn't be inside, I just think they're happier when they can get outside, as well.

 

Depends on the cat. I did have one that HAD to have outdoor access, he'd been a stray and never adapted to indoor life. He also was killed 2 years later, outdoors. 

All my others have been indoor only, happy, and lived long lives. On average, indoor cats live a decade more than cats who go outside. We aren't talking a difference of a  few months, or even a few years, but a drastic shortening of lifespan. 

[TheReader]

15 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I'd buy one that uses a special tag you put on the dog's collars, so they can activate it and the cat can't. 

 

We're kind of reserving that as last resort due to cost. So far, the brush we've put between flaps + the aftermath of the water trap seems to be working. We've seen her sitting on the mat in front of the dog door, looking forlorn, but not trying to push through. And the dog who was freaked out by the brush is getting used to it, so *maybe* we can get away with just that. Fingers crossed!

14 hours ago, lmrich said:

Our cat is not very bright... We have a dog door on the porch that goes outside that I did not want him to use so we just locked it for his first few weeks when he was in that room (we can close that room off), and he just gave up. We just opened the door to the let the dog out for that week or so. But again, this is not a smart cat. Sweet and loving but not very smart. And he watches the dog use it.

 

I have debated that, too. We can shut it from either side, so I thought about having it so it looks open, but is locked on the other side, and just let her try a bit. Maybe she'd decide it doesn't work and give up. It's debatable how smart she is.....she's adorable and hilarious, but she also either hasn't realized, or doesn't care, that the wagging tail she's attacking is attached to a dog or cat on the other end who's going to be annoyed (she goes after all of their tails, with mixed reactions from the various pets in the family).So...smart enough to keep trying once the dogs go through again? Not sure. Stubborn enough to keep trying....? Probably, but maybe worth a try if the brush doesn't work. 

[TheReader]

13 hours ago, scrapbookbuzz said:

Why do you want to keep the cat inside?

 

Basically, what they said (below). 

13 hours ago, stephanier.1765 said:

I don't know about other people but when I adopted mine I had to sign a paper agreeing to keep them inside. Besides, it is much healthier for a cat to live indoors. They don't bring the outdoors in. But they do get bored and trying to keep up with a bored cat is no fun. I try to play mine into exhaustion.

 

We did also have to sign that, yes. And yes, we keep her from getting bored, no worries there. 

13 hours ago, scrapbookbuzz said:

I've always been an indoor/outdoor cat person. Cats have lived outside for years. Yes, I understand the "live longer inside" sentiment but honestly, I want them to be happy, too. Not to say they wouldn't be inside, I just think they're happier when they can get outside, as well.

 

 

Right, but see below. Also, we had a very unpleasant experience once w/an indoor/outdoor cat and unhappy neighbors and.....just rather not go down that road again. DH is also concerned about fleas. And as I said upthread, we've got coyotes, dogs, cars, ongoing construction, close neighbors who don't appreciate free roaming cats, etc. We may at some point graduate her to supervised outside time like our other cat, but right now she's crazy quick and we're afraid she'd be hard to keep in the yard (whereas our other cat is content to lie on the patio and hunt bugs in the grass along the house). 

To keep her happy we have built a 3-story climbing/hide-out/play structure for her in the living room, she has scratching posts in various areas around the house, we play fetch with her (she LOVES to play fetch, it's hilarious), she's got 3 pet "siblings" (2 that play with her; one dog, one cat) and spends a lot of time playing with the boys as well, and in general is kept pretty happy, active, and plied with attention. She lives a very pampered, spoiled, cushy, happy life.....indoors. 

12 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Depends on the cat. I did have one that HAD to have outdoor access, he'd been a stray and never adapted to indoor life. He also was killed 2 years later, outdoors. 

All my others have been indoor only, happy, and lived long lives. On average, indoor cats live a decade more than cats who go outside. We aren't talking a difference of a  few months, or even a few years, but a drastic shortening of lifespan. 

 

Yes, this. 

[Pen]

Could you try to train her to not use the cat door with *positive reinforcements* related to doing something else, instead of trying to scare her away from it with water etc?

Maybe first clicker train her to understand something like a “come” and “stop” for high value rewards and then use stop and come to get her away from the dog door and a huge high value reward for every time she does that. ???

[Pen]

Just now, Pen said:

cat door

 

An error—but probably true in her mind that it is a cat door. 

[TheReader]

18 minutes ago, Pen said:

Could you try to train her to not use the cat door with *positive reinforcements* related to doing something else, instead of trying to scare her away from it with water etc?

Maybe first clicker train her to understand something like a “come” and “stop” for high value rewards and then use stop and come to get her away from the dog door and a huge high value reward for every time she does that. ???

 

that is definitely an idea, yes. I will look into how to do this, thanks.

And yes, I am sure in her mind it's a cat door, LOL! Similar to how she thinks the bathroom sink is her water fountain, and the Nerf darts are her fetch toy, and the paper towels in the pantry are her lounge bed, and....yes, I am certain she views it as her cat door and is fairly annoyed with us not letting her use it. 

[stephanier.1765]

1 hour ago, TheReader said:

 

and the paper towels in the pantry are her lounge bed, and..

One of my cats has decided that the towels hanging from the towel rack in the bathroom are there for her to pull down and make a bed. It's amazing how comfortable she looks lying on one. I haven't quite figured out how to break of her of this because I'm not using a towel once it hits the deck (her litter box is under the counter right across from the rack, yuck) and I don't want to keep having to wash them. Good thing I love her.