Reading social cues?

[school17777]

My 9 yr dd might be better than me!

I invited several couples over last Sunday after church for a game night tonight.  I have had some others over in the past couple of months, it’s fun and a good way to get to know the other couples in church better.

Anyway, everyone seemed excited and either said yes right away, or said they’d get back to me later.  I’m still waiting to hear from one lady who said she’d was pretty sure they could come, but she’d let me know for sure later that afternoon.  I texted her a couple days ago, but haven’t received a response.  I know that glitches can happen with texts, but I don’t want to be pushy about it.  It’d mainly like to know one way or another in advance so I could have invited another couple if they couldn’t come. 

Dd asked yesterday if that particular couple was coming.  I told her I’m not sure yet and she said she doubts they will because she thought the lady didn’t seem interested and just said she was to not hurt my feelings.  At first, I didn’t think this was the case, but now I’m second guessing myself since she didn’t get back to me on Sunday or respond to my text.  

So how do you tell if someone is really interested or is just responding politely (I can’t think of better wording)?  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not getting a response would be my clue.  I'd go ahead and invite another couple.  If she does respond, I would either just add another couple of chairs to the table or would say "Oh I'm so sorry.  When I didn't hear back I invited another couple.  I will be sure to invite you again next time!" 

[school17777]

5 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

the clothes, and the lengthy wording in the promise to get back to me...liars tend to use a lot of words and if there is an audience, try to project an emotion to look like they are being honest.  the clothes are a tip off to me because I live in an area where people don't socialize with those 'beneath' them...so if they are dressed better than I, chances are they won't accept. 

confirmation was that she didn't get back to you as promised, so I'd not expect anything after that time.

final confirmation was no reply to your text.

So, what did your daughter say where her clues?

 

Dd’s clue was her smile/facial expression .  I guess dd didn’t think she looked genuine.

[school17777]

I would never intentionally blow someone off like that.  If I wasn’t interested, I would turn down the invitation at the very start, or at least respond. 

Why would someone, especially from church, not take the time to text back a reply?  

Why blow someone off? 

[school17777]

34 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Not getting a response would be my clue.  I'd go ahead and invite another couple.  If she does respond, I would either just add another couple of chairs to the table or would say "Oh I'm so sorry.  When I didn't hear back I invited another couple.  I will be sure to invite you again next time!" 

 

I think it’s too late to invite someone now.  It’s fine because there’s six of us and if my order for the Settlers of Catan expansion set comes today as scheduled, we can play that!  That only goes up to 6 players.  

Although, I guess I will text a couple right now.  If they are available, they’d be fine with a last minute invite.

[Emba]

5 minutes ago, school17777 said:

Why blow someone off? 

 

Some people, even grown people who should know better, have a very hard time saying no, not wanting to disappoint people, etc.  So they don't answer, because that is easier for them, and even though it causes more turmoil for the person who has been blown off, they don't think of that or they don't care. 

At least, that is my theory.  I am of the "Say what you mean and follow through if you say you'll get back to someone" camp.  Drives me nuts when grown people can't deal with just saying what they mean.

 

[gardenmom5]

her facial expression may or may not have been genuine.  aspies "expressions" often don't reflect their true thoughts.

that she didn't respond that afternoon - well, people get busy, or she was too chicken to be truthful.

that she didn't respond to your text - she's too chicken to be truthful and say "sorry, we can't make it."

I wish people would just suck it up and be upfront. - it is respectful to be truthful, they may "think"they are being "nice", but it is disrespectful to string someone along.iow: it's *not* "nice".  truth is, the person is too chicken to drum up an "I'm sorry, that won't work for me."

[wintermom]

I think some people don't like to say "no" to others in person. They may not want to disappoint or make the person inviting feel bad, or they may need to check their schedule (or spouse) before committing. It's unfortunate this person didn't respond. It could well be an unintentional thing.  I'd give the benefit of the doubt before assuming they were being intentionally rude.  The whole reason for the invitation was to get to know the couple better, so I gather you don't know them well and haven't seen a pattern of this kind of behaviour. As disappointing as it is for you, I wouldn't take it as a personal rejection. 

[gardenmom5]

26 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

the clothes, and the lengthy wording in the promise to get back to me...liars tend to use a lot of words and if there is an audience, try to project an emotion to look like they are being honest.  the clothes are a tip off to me because I live in an area where people don't socialize with those 'beneath' them...so if they are dressed better than I, chances are they won't accept. 

confirmation was that she didn't get back to you as promised, so I'd not expect anything after that time.

final confirmation was no reply to your text.

So, what did your daughter say where her clues?

clothes?  did I miss something? 

[school17777]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

clothes?  did I miss something? 

 

I think she’s talking about her experience in general.

[gardenmom5]

2 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I think some people don't like to say "no" to others in person. They may not want to disappoint or make the person inviting feel bad, or they may need to check their schedule (or spouse) before committing. It's unfortunate this person didn't respond. It could well be an unintentional thing.  I'd give the benefit of the doubt before assuming they were being intentionally rude. 

I'd be more inclined to think they were a) not interested in a friendship, and b) too chicken to be honest.

[wintermom]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

I'd be more inclined to think they were a) not interested in a friendship, and b) too chicken to be honest.

An invitation to a gathering doesn't require the person invited to provide any personal details or explanations. They are completely entitled to their privacy. 

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, wintermom said:

An invitation to a gathering doesn't require the person invited to provide any personal details or explanations. They are completely entitled to their privacy. 

a personal invitation does require a response. (at least from polite people) - please tell me where I said they were required to give any answer more than a "I'm so sorry, I'm not able to make it"?

a "polite" person, will give that much so the hostess can get back to planning her event and not be left in the dark as to whether she needs six chairs or eight.

[school17777]

25 minutes ago, wintermom said:

An invitation to a gathering doesn't require the person invited to provide any personal details or explanations. They are completely entitled to their privacy. 

 

Are you saying it’s an invasion of privacy for an invitee to respond to an invitation?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that people come with a variety of social skills.  Some, due to social anxiety, have a hard time saying no.  Some tend to say yes to everything and then discover that they actually are overloaded.  Some lack the executive function skills to get back to people with a final answer.  Some might actually be rude.  I think it is socially limiting to always assume the worst of people, though. 

[gardenmom5]

30 minutes ago, school17777 said:

 

Are you saying it’s an invasion of privacy for an invitee to respond to an invitation?

No.  I was responding specifically to wintermom

she said:

Quote

  52 minutes ago, wintermom said:

An invitation to a gathering doesn't require the person invited to provide any personal details or explanations. They are completely entitled to their privacy.

to me, she was implying that a definitive answer to an invitation was an invasion of privacy.  

(people are free to *think* what they will about someone who is unwilling to give a definitive answer.  - and I agree, there are different reasons people hedge, but they need to learn to be an adult and have enough respect for others to give definitive answers.   

I think not ultimately  responding yes or no to a personal invitation is rude.  reason why really is irrelevant - deliberate or not, it is causing inconvenience to the person issuing the invitation. the wishy-washy person may think they are "nice" by not disappointing a person by saying "no",  

I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt - but it's a lack of respect for the hostess to keep someone hanging.   at some point people need an answer.

not answering leads to a whole host of misunderstandings.

 

[wintermom]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

a personal invitation does require a response. (at least from polite people) - please tell me where I said they were required to give any answer more than a "I'm so sorry, I'm not able to make it"?

a "polite" person, will give that much so the hostess can get back to planning her event and not be left in the dark as to whether she needs six chairs or eight.

You said, "too chicken to be honest" about delaying to accept an invitation by a near stranger, which is a HUGE leap in my mind. If you ask someone to a party, they can decline without feeling any sort of pressure to be honest. Why should you feel entitled to know why someone declines an invitation? Sure, it's polite to make a response, but there is no need to make an explanation. 

[gardenmom5]

Just now, wintermom said:

You said, "too chicken to be honest" about delaying to accept an invitation by a near stranger, which is a HUGE leap in my mind. If you ask someone to a party, they can decline without feeling any sort of pressure to be honest. Why should you feel entitled to know why someone declines an invitation? Sure, it's polite to make a response, but there is no need to make an explanation. 

if a person can't be honest enough to give a straight answer of "so sorry can't make it" - that's discourteous.  period. reason is irrelevant. any "excuse" you give - still leaves the hostess hanging. giving a straight answer is part of communicating as an adult.

sure people learn at different rates - but it's something we all have had to learn on our journey to adulthood.

a person may think it's nice by saying "maybe"  - but it isn't.  - in the long run, those who refuse to give an answer (for whatever reason) are doing what makes *themselves* comfortable. and leave the event organizers hanging.

they may give a wishy-washy answer thinking they're 'gently' saying "no" and letting the person down easily- but it's still a wishy-washy answer that could also be taken as a "yes".  wishy-washy= ?huh?

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

An invitation to a gathering doesn't require the person invited to provide any personal details or explanations. They are completely entitled to their privacy. 

 

Is a host entitled to a yes or no, in response to an invitation?

33 minutes ago, wintermom said:

You said, "too chicken to be honest" about delaying to accept an invitation by a near stranger, which is a HUGE leap in my mind. If you ask someone to a party, they can decline without feeling any sort of pressure to be honest. Why should you feel entitled to know why someone declines an invitation? Sure, it's polite to make a response, but there is no need to make an explanation. 

 

I think if the woman had actually declined the invitation, rather than just ignoring it (and the follow up text), the OP wouldn't be this curious about motives. Instead, the woman said she would be sure to respond that afternoon, and didn't, which leaves the hostess wondering if this is some kind of social behavior she doesn't understand or whether the woman left the country or what.

I am still waiting (three months later) for the people who said we were all BFFs to respond on the thing they were going to clarify after they got home from my house. (Believe it or not, they committed to music lessons for their kids while they were here, asked for extensive details on price and supplies and recitals and stuff, got the kids all wound up about it...and have not called since. I emailed them all the info that they had requested - this was all their idea, I might add - so if they didn't like my terms, which included free lessons, they could have just said they checked their calendar and decided the kids were already too busy or something? But no. Silence.)

And my kids are still waiting on the RSVP to 120 wedding invitations...in their case, they had to change the venue after the invitations went out, so if people are planning to attend without RSVP'ing, there will not be anyone at the church! I'm going to call of the invitees on the list that I know, and tell them that the venue has changed (but it's still the same day) so please be sure to include your best contact info with your RSVP, so all the wedding guests can be updated with details. I actually do have the details, but I am not telling anyone who won't tell us whether they're coming to the wedding!

When you know people received the invitation, and they SAID, to your face, that they were looking forward to it, and then they go radio silence on you, it's very natural to wonder what in the WORLD is going on. As HeighHo explains, after awhile you realize that this is the behavior of people who think they are better than you and have no intention of following through, but don't know how to be anything but effusive and "polite" in person. One gets the feeling that if a stranger at the Jiffy Lube invited them to a garden party, they'd accept and gush over them. And then they wouldn't go, of course. 

For the wedding guests, some of them may be waiting on a better offer. They might want to come to the wedding if they feel like it that morning, or if nothing else comes up. (Having told me, or my kids, that they wouldn't miss it - but they won't RSVP.) The worst offenders are in their sixties! The college friends ALL responded as soon as they got their invitations.

Sorry, but yeah, it's something to puzzle out for a minute, until you begin to accept that people are either snobs or they are well-intentioned people who were raised by wolves.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Some people will assume that if they told you that they would come, that they don't need to rsvp because you already know their answer.  Not saying that they shouldn't also rsvp but I could see that happening. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

5 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Some people will assume that if they told you that they would come, that they don't need to rsvp because you already know their answer.  Not saying that they shouldn't also rsvp but I could see that happening. 

 

I agree, but with the OP, the guest said she would answer later whether she was coming...in my case, the wedding guests who said they wouldn't miss it, didn't know the date or location when they said that. It was back when ds got engaged and told the group that they'd be invited. So that's more likely the small talk variation.

[gardenmom5]

58 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Some people will assume that if they told you that they would come, that they don't need to rsvp because you already know their answer.  Not saying that they shouldn't also rsvp but I could see that happening. 

that's more than most people get.

[Guest]

Quote

r the wedding guests, some of them may be waiting on a better offer. They might want to come to the wedding if they feel like it that morning, or if nothing else comes up. (Having told me, or my kids, that they wouldn't miss it - but they won't RSVP.) The worst offenders are in their sixties! The college friends ALL responded as soon as they got their invitations.

I truly think this is the most galling of the bad RSVP behavior. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think because this happens SO often, we should all change how we invite people to formal events, at least: We should set up a website with an automated system where the people have been invited with date, city, and scope of event, but NOT the location. Then they go on the website and fill out the RSVP, and the rest of the details will be unlocked! 

For informal events, I am now doing crockpots of chili or soup and cookie buffets, and cooking for 1/3 more people than I invite. That way, if they bring people, I can stretch it, and if they don't show I can freeze the leftovers. I am only doing low risk, low waste entertaining from now on.

[Guest]

@Tibbie Dunbar, your post dovetails perfectly with my “dying group” post. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

15 minutes ago, Quill said:

@Tibbie Dunbar, your post dovetails perfectly with my “dying group” post. 

 

I can't find it! Link, please?

[gardenmom5]

2 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

I can't find it! Link, please?

link -

 

[momacacia]

Where is Emily Post when we need her?? 

[school17777]

Update:  

I ran into the lady on my way out from church.  She made a sad face at me and apologized because she forgot to let me know they couldn’t come over.  She said her dh had a busy week and would’ve been too exhausted and she forgot to text me back.  She said to please invite them again.  Wish my dd had been with me so she could tell me if the lady was sincere or just being polite!

[MysteryJen]

I vote not sincere and not really polite.

I don’t think she has any intention of ever coming.

Why yes! I do know people like this.

[Scarlett]

22 minutes ago, school17777 said:

Update:  

I ran into the lady on my way out from church.  She made a sad face at me and apologized because she forgot to let me know they couldn’t come over.  She said her dh had a busy week and would’ve been too exhausted and she forgot to text me back.  She said to please invite them again.  Wish my dd had been with me so she could tell me if the lady was sincere or just being polite!

That is interesting.  I can't wait for you to invite her again just to see what happens..  Be sure to have your dd nearby.  

[wintermom]

It takes time to get to know people and build up a relationship. Some people and cultures are comfortable jumping right in and getting a superficial relationship going quickly, where others take more time, but then the relationship may be much deeper and solid.   And when dealing with couples in social situations, you have to take both individuals into account. In the OP's case, it doesn't sound like she knows the husband at all. Perhaps try a different tact and invite the lady for coffee with a couple other ladies to get to know her better on her own.

[school17777]

4 minutes ago, wintermom said:

It takes time to get to know people and build up a relationship. Some people and cultures are comfortable jumping right in and getting a superficial relationship going quickly, where others take more time, but then the relationship may be much deeper and solid.   And when dealing with couples in social situations, you have to take both individuals into account. In the OP's case, it doesn't sound like she knows the husband at all. Perhaps try a different tact and invite the lady for coffee with a couple other ladies to get to know her better on her own.

 

In this case, we have “known” each other for around 9 years.  We have not done anything outside of church together though.  Our dhs talk with each other at the men’s stuff.  Her dh owns his own business and is booked months out, maybe for the rest of the year at this point.  I don’t see him not being exhausted anytime soon.  

I am having another game night in a couple of weeks.  One of the other couples is going to host it though instead of me so they won’t need to hire a babysitter (her house is better suited for younger dc than mine).  I’ll probably go ahead and invite them, but won’t hold my breath.  It really doesn’t matter if they come or not, just thought they’d enjoy it. I would like to know yes or no though, because if no, I would invite someone else.

[HS Mom in NC]

I was typing then away from my computer for a while the update happened, but this is generally applicable and apparently needed based on the tone of some of the responses.

It's a very bad mental and emotional habit to guess or assume what another is thinking and what their motivations are.  People hate it when others guess/assume their motivations, so they should be extremely cautious about guessing/assuming someone else's.  So someone who said they were "pretty sure" they could come didn't respond to your text.  Meh.  If they didn't get back to you then you can assume it's a no for any one of a million different major or minor reasons.  Sometimes stuff falls through the cracks unintentionally. You may never know if they're genuinely interested or being polite.  Oh well.  Don't sweat it.

Personality and subculture can play into these situations. Some personality types view direct as mean and evasive as kind.  Same with some subcultures.  Yes, most American subcultures want a more direct answer and it's impolite in those circles to not be direct. But that's not always the most important thing depending on the situation.

Since it's someone you don't know well, know that it could be that or it could be something else you don't know anything about. If you've never had a severe situation come up that swamped every aspect of your existence, I'm telling you all now to be prepared for it.  This person could've been interested but unsure of her schedule and then BAM!!!! something out of the blue slammed her and RSVPing to you could've vanished from her radar. 

I remember the day, a year and a half ago, that my oldest daughter came to me frantic because me her cousin (19 year old teen mom of an 18 mo. toddler) had made plans to give her baby to a couple she met on the internet a few weeks before. No agency, no licensing, no lawyer, no backgrounds checks, so actually, they were human traffickers.   The next 48 hours of my life involved me convincing her to let me take her baby while she figured out what she wanted to do (therapy/reunification vs. adoption placement through legal channels) and "jumping on the grenade" of telling my overbearing parents and her controlling father (my step-brother) who she was living with and who had all been raising her baby along side her that yes, there was a serious mental health issue going on with her that they had refused to see, that she wasn't able to honestly tell them she didn't want to be a mom, that she couldn't live in the same house as the baby because this was going on under their noses, and calling in a family friend who does foster care placement and has appropriate contacts at treatment facilities, negotiating with my husband how long he was willing to co-foster-parent a new child, moving a toddler into my house and caring for her, and managing adoption issues with my youngest daughter, an adoptee, that got stirred up by this very odd birthmother situation she was witnessing with her cousin and her cousin's baby.  Imagine 2 hours from now you are emergency placement for a child in an incredibly difficult  family dynamic situation, and you had no idea that was coming. I'm sure there are plenty of minor things that fell through the cracks.  Oh well, everything couldn't be managed, so the little stuff was let go.  If someone was upset by it, I couldn't afford to care because I was at my limits with major major major issues.

Then there was my grandmother's stroke several years before.  My mother, who had medical power of attorney, called me to come help.  Grandmother had Alzheimer's for a couple of years before the stroke and she couldn't understand why medical people were bothering her and wouldn't co-operate with them, but she always had soft spot for me and my bio brother.  So I went rushing to the ER and told all the medical staff that if they just let me tell her what was going on she would comply.  It worked perfectly. So for several days in the hospital I had to say things like, "Grandmother, this nice nurse lady needs to check your heart."  She would ask why.  "You know how doctors are, they want to check and recheck every little thing and they send these ladies in to do it. I'll be with you the whole time." She would happily agree and then genuinely thank them each time, but there were so many things for medical staff to do and I had to be there for everything until my brother got off work and took a shift with her. Then they transferred her to a hospice facility which was another upheaval to her and required me to be involved sentence by sentence until the pain from the pressure in her brain required heavy pain meds which made her sleepy. It was all consuming because she would forget my explanations almost immediately and I had to repeat it over and over until she was distracted by a new thought, but I could either drop my regular life and keep calm during her last month of life my sweet, confused grandmother who helped raise us when my mom was single, or I could deal with smaller things.  Easy choice. All kinds of stuff fell through the cracks. Each person has only so much bandwidth.

[freesia]

I agree with HSMom in Az. After some crisis of our own, I have much more sympathy for situations like this. That said, I'd give her one more chance and then move on. If she flakes again, but really wants to get to know you, she can host you to let you know. That's what I would do. 

But, for wedding invites, gah, that is a different matter 120 no replies us just rude. While it is rude to not RSVP to a games night, too, at least all involved know the stakes and financial ramifications are low. 

[wintermom]

9 hours ago, school17777 said:

In this case, we have “known” each other for around 9 years.  We have not done anything outside of church together though.  Our dhs talk with each other at the men’s stuff.  Her dh owns his own business and is booked months out, maybe for the rest of the year at this point.  I don’t see him not being exhausted anytime soon.  

I am having another game night in a couple of weeks.  One of the other couples is going to host it though instead of me so they won’t need to hire a babysitter (her house is better suited for younger dc than mine).  I’ll probably go ahead and invite them, but won’t hold my breath.  It really doesn’t matter if they come or not, just thought they’d enjoy it. I would like to know yes or no though, because if no, I would invite someone else.

If you know her this well, I'd simply ask if a games night is really appealing to both her and her dh. There are lots of different ways to get to know people better, and a games night for multiple couples couple simply be unappealing for both of them. She may like the idea, but not him. You've hit on a somewhat niche activity (board games for couples) that can be great, but can also be not so great for social gatherings. 

[TABmom]

I agree with Homeschool Mom in AZ. If you want her to come, invite her. If she doesn't respond and it's no big deal to planfor her to be there, just do it. If it is a big deal, wait and send another text "hey, just wondered if you knew if you would be able to come yet... Trying to plan the menu" Surely at that point, she'll respond. Maybe she doesn't want to come, maybe she is just (trying) to being polite. At least she likes you well enough to not want to hurt your feelings. Maybe she had a big crisis, maybe not. 

I have a friend group that hangs out a lot. There's a woman that we have invited many times. She only comes once in a while. We keep inviting her, though honestly, sometimes I forget because she's not around often enough to think of if something is last minute. She gives reasons like "i have too much laundry". Well, we've all got too much laundry! We just do fun things anyway. I have wondered if she has social anxiety or something. But I don't worry about it too much. I invite, she either comes or not. I wouldn't do something where I depended on her to show up. But she seems to really like us when she's there, so we'll just keep doing what we're doing. 

[regentrude]

22 hours ago, school17777 said:

I ran into the lady on my way out from church.  She made a sad face at me and apologized because she forgot to let me know they couldn’t come over.  She said her dh had a busy week and would’ve been too exhausted and she forgot to text me back.  She said to please invite them again.  Wish my dd had been with me so she could tell me if the lady was sincere or just being polite!

Lamest excuse ever. I'm pretty sure she is not coming next time either. 

Either you know ahead of time that you will behaving a heinous week and will not be in the mood, then you decline right away. Or you  meant to come and HAD it on the calendar, and then you don't "forget" to call when it turns out hubby comes home too exhausted shortly before the function. Nope. My vote is "not sincere"

[regentrude]

11 hours ago, wintermom said:

a games night for multiple couples couple simply be unappealing for both of them. She may like the idea, but not him. 

Completely agree. I'd LOVE game night, but no way my DH would ever consent to something like this because he hates games.

But adults should be able to say that only one of the couple will come. There is no reason couples need to attend all gatherings together.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If the whole point is to get to know people at church better, than I would extend grace.  It doesn't hurt anyone to take her at her word and to invite her again. 

[Liz CA]

On 6/23/2018 at 10:18 AM, Jean in Newcastle said:

Not getting a response would be my clue.  I'd go ahead and invite another couple.  If she does respond, I would either just add another couple of chairs to the table or would say "Oh I'm so sorry.  When I didn't hear back I invited another couple.  I will be sure to invite you again next time!" 

 

Exactly this.