Sticking with it (into highschool).....

[BrettW]

Hi All,

I've reached a kind of a crossroads and could use advice from homeschoolers (or those who have gone another direction). DS(14) has always been homeschooled (except for K) and has never shown an interest in public school. But recently, as 8th grade is ending, he has started to express an interest in attending the same small public charter school as his older sister. It's a school with a focus on college prep. She's on the "honors track" and takes AP and CE courses (NHS, etc...). She's making friends with other kids who are academically-focused. He's seeing her success both socially and academically there. I think it's making him feel like maybe that's a better route to go. He currently goes to (and has for many years) a 1-day a week homeschool program and while he has a lot "acquaintances" there, he has no real friend group (kids to hang out with outside of school or study with) and I think for the first time in his life, it's bothering him. He's too old for me to choose (or even "help" him choose) his friends and his friend group is shrinking as he's not naturally social, like his sister. I know the social aspect can go either way when it comes to public school, but I feel like by homeschooling him, I'm depriving him of having friends, kwim. I don't want a sullen and increasingly lonely teenage boy. 

That's the social aspect. There's also the academic aspect. His current program offers no "honors" classes or AP. We spoke about homeschooling for 9th and looking into transferring to her school  if he wants for 10th but even if he gets straight A's he would have a 4.0, but, seriously, that's not even considered a good GPA anymore when peers are taking honors (4.5)  and college courses (5.0). Many, many kids there have well over 4.0. If he were to go to the charter, he would (likely) be put on the honors track, too.

It feels like if you do 9th homeschooling, it's best to be able to commit to it through highschool. That's a problem here. Especially now that he's asking to try public school. I'm torn. He's my last kiddo. I've been homeschooling for 12 years. I really love homeschooling but with no students I'd feel like I should go back into the workforce. I can't stay home all day when they're gone from 7am to 6pm (both want to run XC afterschool). At the same time, I don't want to make this decision based on what I want. It should be best for him and his needs. I'm just sad because he's always wanted to homeschool (my daughter always wanted to go to PS, even though I homeschooled her through middle). Any advice? Has anyone else had a similar situation? sorry so long

[alewife]

Regarding the social aspect...Is it possible for homeschoolers in your state to participate in after-school sports and other activities at your local public school?  If not, are there hobbies that your son enjoys where he can find like-minded friends?

Regarding the academic piece...as a homeschooler, you control the content.  You can devise a homeschool program that is at the honors or AP level.

You will definitely want to check the rules in your state regarding homeschooling high school.  In some states, the public school will not accept any high school homeschool credits and will require the student to begin at the 9th grade level regardless of his homeschool grade level.

Good luck in your decision!

[Mom22ns]

I would seriously consider letting him try the school in 9th. If he loves it, great. If he hates it, you can always return to homeschooling. Starting high school as a homeschool and switching to the charter is probably much harder if not impossible. 

Friends at the high school level (particularly for homeschoolers) typically come from shared interests. Find groups that he can participate in where the kids share an interest and he is more likely to make friends. As Alewife said, you can make your homeschool as academically rigorous as you choose. We did honors, AP, and dual enrollment to provide our kids a college prep education and they have both done great in college. I would not let a one-day-a-week program where he doesn't have friends dictate your homeschool decisions. 

[catz]

Could you let him try it through the holidays before you consider trying to find a full time out of the house job.  Maybe you could do something online or part time if you wanted.  I know so many kids that try and hate it.  And sometimes quiet and mature kids especially don't like it.  Then they end up pulling out anyway.  If you're going to try it, I'd try it in 9th and go from there.

[almondbutterandjelly]

I would try the school for 9th.  Commit to the year.  After that, decide.  It doesn't have to be forever, and this way, you're not closing any doors.  And you hold off on getting a job until you see how life plays out, if you can.  This happened to our family, but in 8th grade.  It was a hard year, but well worth it.  However, with all the afterschool support I needed to provide, having a job would have been really hard.  We went back to homeschooling after that year, but solid friendships had been made and continue even back to homeschooling.

[Hoggirl]

Another vote for trying the school.  I homeschooled my only ds from 2nd grade (he did regular public school for K and 1st) through halfway through 8th grade.  We put him in an excellent, academically-focused charter school halfway through 8th where they bumped him up to halfway through 9th (because he was rather accelerated in math).  

Ds had participated in some summer academic programs, and I think those made him want to have classroom time with peers.  He did not want to go the DE route because he wanted to be with kids his own age.  It was VERY hard for me.  I felt like I had been doing a good job.  I do think (and this may come across as sexist) that boys, in particular, can benefit from answering to someone other than mom. And, honestly, we were both losing our enthusiasm for working together.  I think our relationship would have suffered if we had insisted he continue to homeschool. We had always taken our homeschooling decisions one year at a time.  He had made noises about going to school in 7th grade (grades were configured for junior high at that point in time), but we didn’t allow it then.  However, we always felt like he had more say the older he got. A big part of the difficulty for me was losing my identity as a “homeschooling mom.”  Honestly, in hindsight, it was an excellent decision. There is no way I could have gotten him to the level of achievement he obtained had I carried on.  Dh backed up ds on his choice, and that was hard.  But, now I am glad he did.

I do think high school is kind of a crossroads. As others have said, you can always go back to homeschooling if it doesn’t play out as expected/desired.

[Mom22ns]

3 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

I do think (and this may come across as sexist) that boys, in particular, can benefit from answering to someone other than mom. 

 

I think this is more kid dependent than gender dependent. For us, ds was great homeschooling all the way through. Dd needed outside teachers and our relationship was definitely more strained by homeschooling high school. 

 

[daijobu]

In middle school I played the mommy card and forced them to continue homeschool.  But by high school I couldn't do it; I needed to let them make the decision.  Both dd's chose high school.  My older dd dropped out after 6 weeks.  It was a bit rough at first, but we got her going with AP chemistry freshman year + some other classes and she took off.  My younger dd also tried a different high school, and is just finishing her freshman year.  

It was hard not to take it personally when they both chose high school.  I don't see why you would make them finish a year, if they don't like it.  (My older dd came home in tears when she realized what a mistake she made.)  And there is nothing wrong with trying high school for a year and then returning to homeschooling.  

Good luck with your decision!  

[cuckoomamma]

Each year I talk with our girls to see if they would like to go to school.  I would periodically talk with my high school aged dd to see if going to high school the following year would be an option and what the pros and cons were.  She has an extremely time intense ec with a less than great peer group.  We don't know any homeschooled teens that are similar academically to her, and we all craved a peer group that was as academically driven as her.  The ec activity also didn't offer peers that were academically driven even though they are schooled.

We seriously considered this year at the local high school, and I contacted them to discuss classes.  We found that they didn't offer many of the AP classes listed in their course of studies, and that dd had already taken almost all the AP classes they offered in her freshman and sophomore years.  They told me that they really had very little to offer her and that we could pay to have her attend the local university or online accredited classes and they would count toward her high school credits with them.?

She continued to homeschool this year and will senior year, as well.  We still struggle with the lack of similar peers.  However, the trade offs she would have had to/would have to make if attending high school were not what she/we would like to make.  She's had a fantastic education through homeschooling with amazing teachers.  Although we've spoken of this in the past, the ability to choose a teacher is invaluable.  One of the classes we outsourced this year was with a public high school teacher (not local).  The teacher and the experience was such a huge disappointment! We were able to salvage the year by creating our own class to augment it.  It drove home the point that she had a freedom that she wouldn't have if she had attended school.

I don't think it's a clear cut answer but figured I'd add our experience.  With school, your son might gain a peer group but lose academic excellence and a great deal of freedom in how that is expressed. I think it's individual to each experience as my younger daughter has a more academically inclined ec peer group.

[skimomma]

You may want to take this with a grain of salt as I am currently wallowing in the last frustrating weeks of 9th grade but if you and your child are on the fence, better to try school than to push forward.  My own dd was on the fence and was OK going either way.  I leaned more towards wanting to keep her home.  Now we pretty much have to stick with it all the way through.  I am prepared and equipped to handle this but dd's desire to go to school increased significantly over the year.  She wants to be with her friends (we have no homeschool community here, we only know one other high school aged kid at home).  She wants to go to dances and pep rallies and all that other stuff that seems so awesome in books and movies.  She wants to do school sports.  And we are hitting a lot of teen-and-mom issues that is making our days frustrating.  If I could go back one year, I think I would have enrolled her in the local school.  I think the chances are high that she would have come home after one year (I would have required her to stick it out for the full year) but at least she would have seen the other side of the fence so I didn't have to listen to her go on and on about how much better her friends have it in school.  I too would have felt compelled to work full time but I have a job that is flexible that way so I could go back to part-time if she did indeed decide to come home.

[Lori D.]

Previous posters have done a great job of laying out things to think about:
- you can't (and shouldn't) try to drag an unwilling teen through homeschooling
- if you're going to enter the high school, best to do so at 9th grade, because it can be either very difficult or impossible to enter partway through, depending on the high school's policy about accepting/not accepting credits
- in contrast, if a high school is not working, you can always return to homeschooling
- there is no guarantee that a boy who hasn't made close friends in the years at a homeschool co-op will do so in public school classes; all there is a guarantee of is that, for good or for ill, he will see the same group of students daily for 4 years of high school
- in many areas, homeschoolers can participate in public or private school sports, extracurriculars, or even attend 1-2 classes -- so you might look in to the policies of this public charter about partial participation, or if it is "all or nothing" decision
- have you looked into what community activities are available for social options for your DS -- again, high school might not be the only option to fill social needs; what about:

   * Model Legislation/Judicial programs -- YMCA Youth & Gov't; Model UN; Mock Trial
   * Speech & Debate team
   * Civil Air Patrol -- NOT just for kids thinking of going into the military
   * community youth/teen theater, or band, orchestra, or chorus
   * community classes in art, jewelry-making, wood-working, welding, etc.
   * after school club -- robotics, book club, electronics, bowling league, etc.
   * involvement in classes or group for martial arts, fencing, dance, horseback riding, or other unique physical activity
   * all-ages community group centered on a mutual interest, such as hiking, model railroad, community gradening, etc.
   * community physical activity group, such as paint-balling, skateboarding, rock climbing, etc
 

I will just add:  Be kind to yourself.
There is naturally going to be a grieving process when meaningful work you've been engaged in comes to an end -- even if you homeschool through high school graduation. And there is esp. a shock when that meaningful work unexpectedly ends sooner than you thought it would, as it doesn't allow you transition time of figuring out your next/new stage and be moving into it, which helps "cushion the blow" a little bit.
 

On 5/29/2018 at 4:21 PM, BrettW said:

...but even if he gets straight A's he would have a 4.0, but, seriously, that's not even considered a good GPA anymore when peers are taking honors (4.5)  and college courses (5.0)...

I will also add the following related to your thought which I quoted:
Encouragement that homeschooling can be just as competitive if not more so than a public high school that offers honors and college courses. Based on the materials you choose to use, you CAN make your own Honors level courses. You CAN do AP, either at home or with an online class. Or take it as a single class with the public school (if permitted by your school district). You CAN do dual enrollment and have college courses/credits on the high school transcript. And it's not difficult to calculate a "weighted" GPA for the transcript if doing these options through your homeschool.

But even better -- you're able to tailor your homeschool coursework to your student's interests and strengths to better prepare your student for post-high school college/career, and give your student a unique high school experience that really shines in college admissions and on scholarship applications.

And another thought to encourage you: many, many, many students get into college -- and get scholarships -- just fine with NO honors, NO AP tests and NO dual enrollment/college classes. "Honors" courses, and even GPA to some extent, are rather meaningless because class material and assignments vary so widely from one school to another, that there's really no way to accurately compare.

As a side note, and my own little rant (lol): right now, our culture has been whipped into a frenzy about high school test scores, honors classes / "rigor" / GPA, and worries about "getting into college." Those things are actually blinding people to the real concerns, which are things like:
- high college costs / student debt
- college students on average needing more than 4 years to complete a 4-year degree -- some are students who were "honors" and AP students in high school
- high number of honors / over-achieving students who got burned out on rigorous academics and are dropping out of college after 1-2 years
- high number of students (even some who were "honors" and AP high schoolers) dropping out of college because it's not a good fit for them and their actual interests/strengths -- and now enslaved in entry-level jobs trying to pay back college loans
- high number of college graduates with degrees who struggle to find a decent job

In other words, a 4.0+ GPA and honors courses and AP tests is NO guarantee about the student's future post-high school experiences.
 

Wishing you and your student all the BEST, as together you explore your options and decide what direction the high school stage of education will go in. Warmest regards, Lori D.

[BrettW]

Thank you all for your kind responses. He says he's fine with homeschooling for 9th, but he'd plan (for now) to go to the public charter starting in 10th. (I'd have to ask about the transferring credits thing). I feel like if he could just develop a couple of friendships at the homeschool program, he'd probably change his mind and want to stay. Like I said, he's always wanted to homeschool. It wasn't until very recently that he's started to wonder more about public school. Anyway, I just can't decide if I want our homeschool time to end and have him gone all the time. School 8:00 - 3:30pm & XC 4:00 - 5:30pm means both kids are gone all day. That's not the lifestyle I wanted when I started homeschooling. I know DD is happy, gets good grades, holds down a good part-time job, has lots of friends, etc.... BUT I literally barely see her, and she's only 16. I'm sure that's typical with public schooled families, especially ones with kids in sports too, but I homeschooled because I didn't want that! I want my son to be happy too...but I want to be part of his life. Maybe I'm selfish... ? I'm torn, but I'm leaning toward letting him make the decision.

 

[scholastica]

I think if he has any idea of trying high school, doing it for Freshman year is better than Sophomore year, especially if it’s for social reasons. A lot of kids will have formed their groups in Freshman year, and, though it does flow a bit, it can be difficult to “break in” to a group after that. If you do it, I would wait to find a job, in case school doesn’t work out. You can always volunteer and build marketable skills during those hours while he is trying it out. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

I'm not sure what state you're in, but in some states, you have to enter as a freshman or when you do enter, they make your a freshman anyway.  YMMV, but you should definitely look into that, lest school want to deny him credits for entering later than 9th grade.

[HollyDay]

Does the school he is interested in offer a "shadow" program so he could "attend" for a day or a week as a "shadow" of a currently enrolled student.  That would give him first hand experience.  Also, does the school offer testing to place him where he belongs so he would not have to take classes he has already completed or be enrolled automatically in a class he is not yet ready.

[BrettW]

Yes, the school does offer "shadow days". I asked him back in January if he wanted to do a shadow day and he said that he didn't really want to. BUT...like I mentioned, this wanting to try full-time HS has been fairly recent...just the past 2 months or so. If he were to homeschool for 9th, I would have him do the shadow day in the fall.

As a side note, the two schools I'm referring to (the homeschool charter and the full time public charter) are related schools in the same school district. The homeschool charter is an off-shoot of the full-time program, but is only one full day per week for home-schooled kids only. The two programs share the same career counselor (both offer and pay for CE at the local community college) and work together to collaborate.

They do allow kids to transfer in for 10th (on a lottery system if space is available). He would have an advantage as he has a sibling in the school. I'd have to check on the credit transfer, but I believe it would. He would have to make up any elective classes that freshman take which are required for graduation, but because of the semester block scheduling, that wouldn't be too hard.

Socially, I'm torn. What he really wants is a friend group and I can't blame him for that.

I suppose I could plan to put off work for at least 6 months to see how things go if he chooses (and gets a spot) at the full time school....

Thanks again for all your suggestions....   ? 

[2_girls_mommy]

Just chiming in here too that you could not enter as a sophomore and graduate. A child would have to enter as a freshman. No credits for anything at home are accepted anywhere here. I know lots that have tried.  I was warned about that way back in elementary, and have seen it played out. I have seen others go ahead and try it and not be allowed. So you have to commit to four years if you start. For us that means having a plan in place for what if something happens to me in the process. I go over with my dh and sister how I keep records and files for their transcripts and such and have a plan for them for how to continue if something happens to me. 

[BlsdMama]

This is tricky.  Do you have a dual enrollment option?  What are your social options for homeschooling?  Classical Conversations or a likeminded co-op?  Community College classes?

We have so many options here that I know most states don't have. :(

[importswim]

On 5/31/2018 at 10:31 AM, Lori D. said:

 

As a side note, and my own little rant (lol): right now, our culture has been whipped into a frenzy about high school test scores, honors classes / "rigor" / GPA, and worries about "getting into college." Those things are actually blinding people to the real concerns, which are things like:
- high college costs / student debt
- college students on average needing more than 4 years to complete a 4-year degree -- some are students who were "honors" and AP students in high school
- high number of honors / over-achieving students who got burned out on rigorous academics and are dropping out of college after 1-2 years
- high number of students (even some who were "honors" and AP high schoolers) dropping out of college because it's not a good fit for them and their actual interests/strengths -- and now enslaved in entry-level jobs trying to pay back college loans
- high number of college graduates with degrees who struggle to find a decent job

In other words, a 4.0+ GPA and honors courses and AP tests is NO guarantee about the student's future post-high school experiences.
 

Wishing you and your student all the BEST, as together you explore your options and decide what direction the high school stage of education will go in. Warmest regards, Lori D.

Thank you so much for this! DS will be starting 8th grade next year and so I'm in the process of vaguely planning what we'll do in high school (with the idea that things can change). I tend to get bogged down in future planning so I needed to read your rant and think it's worthy of reading over and over again!