Seeking opinions on a standardized test score

[skimomma]

14yo dd took her first standardized test (Iowa Test of Educational Development) a few weeks ago.  I had her take it for three reasons.  The first was purely for my own curiosity.  Second was to have another form of outside evaluation.  And the third was to check a box for possible application to a semester school in which dd has expressed possible interest.  Dd has taken very few tests in general, just what has been required in the few outsourced classes she has taken, and was not given any direction on how to take a standardized test.  In fact, I ambushed her with the test one morning.  She tends to have high anxiety and I knew she would unnecessarily fret over it had she known it was coming.  

 

I know little about this particular test.  I selected in because it was easily accessible to homeschoolers, was affordable, and was recommended by the semester school.  I assume it is legit or else the semester school would likely not have pointed us to it.  If anyone knows anything about it, I am all ears.

 

Dd has always been homeschooled.  I have always considered her motivated and bright but not atypically intelligent.  She seems pretty typical with ups and downs in different subjects.  I do know I have high, and even perhaps skewed, expectations so my assessment of her intellectual capacities may not be accurate.  Dd has done very well in her few outsourced classes and has received As in every one she has taken.  Again, she has had struggles (I'm talking to you AP Lukeion Latin!) but has always earned high marks.

 

We got the test results yesterday.  I was pretty shocked to find that her composite score was in the 99th percentile.  After the initial shock wore off, dh and I were talking about it and recalling our own school-based standardized testing experiences growing up.  We both recall, but have no actual proof, that we also scored in the 90s for these types of tests.....but that most people we knew also did, including our siblings.  Which of course made us wonder how much stock to put into these types of scores.  We went to good schools and grew up pretty darn privileged as middle class kids with parents that valued education.  Perhaps most students in that situation score highly?  

 

Is what I am seeing with dd's scores more likely to be a result of high expectations and carefully planned home education rather than a measure of academic talent?  Up until now my own untested mostly-gut-driven assessments had me ruling out pursuing merit scholarships.  But now I am questioning.  Should I be questioning or are these standardized tests something that should not be taken too seriously?  Perhaps 99th percentile really doesn't mean much?    

 

This is going to sound sacrilegious on this forum but the very idea of test prep for the SAT and ACT was not in my plan for dd.  I figured she would score well enough without prepping to easily land admission to the local university where I teach, which means she goes for half price.  No need to waste time we could be spending on other subjects and pursuits.  I was not even planning to have her take the PSAT as our local schools do not allow homeschoolers to sit for it.  Now I am starting to wonder if I should reconsider.  

 

Opinions, thoughts, experiences?  

[cintinative]

I can't answer a lot of your questions, but assuming that you mean she got 99th percentile, keep in mind this means she scored better than 99% of the other students that took the test. I don't think that is something you write off. 

 

Bump for someone to answer the rest of your questions.

[Arcadia]

No idea since even my slow poke DS12 test well with some prep.

 

However you can always let her try the free SAT practice test 8 (newest) to see how well she does. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat/practice/full-length-practice-tests

 

PSAT free practice test is here. There’s only two available

https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/psat-nmsqt-psat-10/practice/full-length-practice-tests

 

ACT free practice test https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/Preparing-for-the-ACT.pdf

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think it would be quite possible for her to do well on other standardized tests as well. I also suggest having her take one of the practice SAT tests on Khan Academy. I prefer the paper test. You can then input the answers in order to get a score.

 

Btw. For a 14 yo to be in AP Latin is pretty great. That is a tough class.

[skimomma]

I can only address the SAT/ACT portion of your question. My oldest is the only one who has taken them so far, and she has taken both. She was always a 99 percentile composite kid on her yearly standardized testing, but her SAT and ACT math scores were not that high. Her reading/writing sections were. So for her, the scores were predictive only for the English sections. YMMV

 

Good to know, even if anecdotal.  Some practice tests might shed some light on most of my uncertainties.  I just really REALLY hate teaching to tests or anything test prep.  Practice testing falls into the same category for me which is why I planned to avoid it.  But I am reconsidering this stance now.

[skimomma]

I think it would be quite possible for her to do well on other standardized tests as well. I also suggest having her take one of the practice SAT tests on Khan Academy. I prefer the paper test. You can then input the answers in order to get a score.

 

Btw. For a 14 yo to be in AP Latin is pretty great. That is a tough class.

 

She is still a little mad about being ambushed with the Iowa test to begin with so I will give it a little time then try a practice test or two.  

 

It is sort of a side note, but on the paper thing, I agree that it makes the most sense to replicate the actual test scenario as much as possible.  I worried about dd taking the AP Latin exam simply because she did not have much practice with hand-writing essays in a timed environment.  We have been doing some practice essays by hand at home as recommended by her teacher.  The first 2-3 were really difficult.  I started asking her to do some of her history and rhetoric writing by hand just to start developing the skill and stamina.  Dd really struggles with not having the ability to edit on the fly like she can when typing.  That is not a lesson she needed to learn during the exam!

 

AP Latin at 14 was sort of an accident but I'm glad we did it.  Dd has learned many non-Latin related lessons from these last four years.  But it has been tough and her age was a factor for sure.  If I could do it over again, I would have started her at least one year later.  

[freesia]

I think doing something like Kahn Academy is more fair to her as someone with anxiety. Then she is showing what she. An do rather. Ban having to manage the anxiety. Kahn academy SAT prep was created to level the playing field. I think it is great

 

And the ITBS is meant to show academic preparedness not inate brightness. (Of course it does show inate brightness, too).

[mschickie]

You might want to find someplace to do the PSAT when she is in 11th just so she may be eligible for a National Merit Scholarship.  The public schools should allow the kids to take it there but if not just call some of the private schools in your area.  I know we have a couple that regularly allow homeschoolers to take the test.

 

 

As for the ACT/SAT you may not need some intense practice for it but you might want to do a couple of practice tests just so you can see how she does with the types of questions they ask.   If you see she has issues in a certain area you can have her do more practice on those types of questions.  The higher the SAT/ACT score the more scholarships she will be eligible for.  

[skimomma]

You might want to find someplace to do the PSAT when she is in 11th just so she may be eligible for a National Merit Scholarship.  The public schools should allow the kids to take it there but if not just call some of the private schools in your area.  I know we have a couple that regularly allow homeschoolers to take the test.

 

 

 

 

This is a big issue for us.  The closest private school is two hours away and our local public schools are very hostile towards homeschoolers for reasons I do not understand.  I have posted here before about my struggles to find an AP exam site.  It was when asking our local districts about this that I was informed she would NOT be allowed to sit for the PSAT either.  The district I actually live in informed me, in writing(!), that if they had their way, she wouldn't be allowed for the SAT or ACT either.  That is about when I decided it was not worth the effort since I didn't see National Merit Scholarship as reachable anyway.  It probably still isn't, I guessing, but I will leave it up to dd.  If she wants to take the PSAT, I'll look for a site.  Sigh.  This also means no more AP exams.  I found a boarding school out of state that will allow her to take this one exam but I am not going through that hassle again.

[eternalsummer]

I think it's worth finding a place to take the PSAT.  If she's not going to take it first in 10th, give her a couple of practice SATs to get used to the format.  99th percentile on the Iowa test is not hugely remarkable but combined with getting through 4 years of Lukeion's Latin starting presumably in 6th grade, she could do well.  There are still a fair number of schools that give full ride scholarships for National Merit.

 

btw, I know what you mean about Lukeion teaching lessons beyond Latin.  Great providers!

[Arcadia]

The district I actually live in informed me, in writing(!), that if they had their way, she wouldn't be allowed for the SAT or ACT either.

It is possible for them to do that. My district does not host Saturday SAT tests, they do them on a school day for their students. Only one of my district’s high school host the Saturday ACT once or twice a year for the general public, their students take on a school day.

[wapiti]

I think it's impossible to know what she'll score like on the ACT or SAT without some practice tests and even then, if a trial test doesn't go well, I would not rule out significant score increases with practice, both for timing and strategy considerations, depending on the student.

 

And yes, I suggest getting over any ideas of avoiding prep - there is very little teenagers can do that can have this level of financial return on effort for those who are within striking distance of scholarship-level scores.  Coleman (president of College Board) explicitly advertises a study that shows some huge score increase for Khan practice - it's possible.  Good luck :)

 

ETA, I don't think that sufficient prep needs to take gobs and gobs of time.  A few hours per week for a couple of months may do the trick.  But just like with regular schoolwork, I suggest getting involved, figuring out what any issues are.  Make absolutely sure she goes over every question she gets wrong and understands why the right answer is the correct one, why the one she chose was wrong, so she can learn the patterns in the questions and answers.

 

If the timing is too tight (and it often is, for both tests), the SAT offers slightly more time per question, and there may be strategies to help with that.  E.g., there seems to be some disagreement among high scorers whether it's faster to read the questions first in the reading section or to read the passage first, or take different strategies depending on the type of passage, etc.

 

If she is advanced in math, I'd be aiming for a very high score there, as the SAT math isn't that hard... but practice can make a huge difference as well as going over the hardest handful of problems to make sure she remembers how to do them because they often come back on future tests.  And of course, all of this first assumes getting the easy ones correct, as they all count the same, i.e. don't give up any easy points for failing to be careful.

Edited February 7, 2018 by wapiti

[skimomma]

It is possible for them to do that. My district does not host Saturday SAT tests, they do them on a school day for their students. Only one of my district’s high school host the Saturday ACT once or twice a year for the general public, their students take on a school day.

 

Oh boy.  This just jangled something in the back of my mind that I heard our local districts might be going in this direction.  That could even be why it was mentioned by the school.  A hint, perhaps?  I don't know any other local homeschoolers doing high school.  All of dd's friends go to school and the few homeschoolers we knew when dd was younger entered school in middle school or high school at the latest.  So, I feel like I am in unchartered territory.  And we live in an odd geographically isolated area so things like non-school-affiliated testing sites are just not a thing.  With no private schools, dd is one of very few people who would be affected by a lack of available testing sites.  Sounds like I had better do some more research in case taking SAT/ACT might require significant travel.  

[wapiti]

Maybe look at planning an overnight to a larger metro area.  My junior is in private school and the public schools here do in-school testing at some point, but there are still plenty of testing dates available at the large public high schools - any Saturday test date, the SAT is offered at numerous locations within 10-30 minutes - not every large high school on every date, but enough that finding a spot is no trouble whatsoever.

[RootAnn]

We are in a small rural town. We are lucky to have a friendly guidance counselor one district over (30 min) for the PSAT. For the SAT, we do an overnight (since dd#1 is not a morning person) as the closest schools to offer it are 1 1/2 hrs away.

 

ACT is offered locally.

 

My kids have never scored that high on ITBS (but we only take it in grades 4, 6, and 8). We do test prep for ACT (and certain kids will prep for PSAT if practice tests show that to be a better option for them) so as to score high enough for merit money.

[SebastianCat]

One of my children scored consistently in the 99th percentile for the IOWA and CAT tests, and that high score (for each particular grade level) did correlate with a high SAT Verbal score.   Math wasn't quite as high, but he's only taking Algebra 2 currently, and based on sub-section info, that should increase some just by learning the higher level math.   He's taken the PSAT twice and SAT once, and his scores have all been within 50 points of what he's gotten at home on practice tests.   

[GoodGrief]

Good to know, even if anecdotal.  Some practice tests might shed some light on most of my uncertainties.  I just really REALLY hate teaching to tests or anything test prep.  Practice testing falls into the same category for me which is why I planned to avoid it.  But I am reconsidering this stance now.

 

There's "teaching to the test", which is focusing the education entirely on being able to do well on specific standardized tests, and then there is "test prep", which is studying for a single test.

 

Test prep is really no big deal, especially for a kid who naturally tests well (without any learning difficulties or anxiety.) Think of it as akin to putting in some extra hours training for a race.

 

Even for those of us whose kids did a fair amount of standardized testing through high school (and one of mine did, one did not), the tests do not monopolize the education.

 

Personally, if you've got a kid who tests well, I'd put in the extra effort to find a PSAT test site, and have her prepare for that junior year PSAT. Ideally, taking the test sophomore year too (and possibly freshman year), so that you have your site nailed down and you both know what to expect junior year. The process is truly not that time consuming.

 

Editing to add though that I don't think you need to panic and change all of your high school plans because of this one test result. :-)

Edited February 7, 2018 by GoodGrief

[skimomma]

There's "teaching to the test", which is focusing the education entirely on being able to do well on specific standardized tests, and then there is "test prep", which is studying for a single test.

 

Test prep is really no big deal, especially for a kid who naturally tests well (without any learning difficulties or anxiety.) Think of it as akin to putting in some extra hours training for a race.

 

Even for those of us whose kids did a fair amount of standardized testing through high school (and one of mine did, one did not), the tests do not monopolize the education.

 

Personally, if you've got a kid who tests well, I'd put in the extra effort to find a PSAT test site, and have her prepare for that junior year PSAT. Ideally, taking the test sophomore year too (and possibly freshman year), so that you have your site nailed down and you both know what to expect junior year. The process is truly not that time consuming.

 

Editing to add though that I don't think you need to panic and change all of your high school plans because of this one test result. :-)

 

 

Thanks.  Yes, I need to get over my disdain for test prep.  

 

No panic yet.  I think our plans remain the same except I will now start the daunting task of finding a PSAT site and will add test prep to the docket in future years.  It may be that everything will look the same.  Half price at the local university may very well still be the best deal we can find even if dd does qualify for merit aid.  Especially since we can reduce housing costs.  It is highly ranked in the degree programs she is interested in and is also highly competitive in her chosen sport, so it is a good choice regardless of cost savings.

[GoodGrief]

Thanks.  Yes, I need to get over my disdain for test prep.  

 

No panic yet.  I think our plans remain the same except I will now start the daunting task of finding a PSAT site and will add test prep to the docket in future years.  It may be that everything will look the same.  Half price at the local university may very well still be the best deal we can find even if dd does qualify for merit aid.  Especially since we can reduce housing costs.  It is highly ranked in the degree programs she is interested in and is also highly competitive in her chosen sport, so it is a good choice regardless of cost savings.

 

In some cases, having those test results can open up some options...for admissions, but also for scholarships, special programs, whatever. :-) It's a nice thing if you have a kid who can do it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thanks.  Yes, I need to get over my disdain for test prep.  

 

No panic yet.  I think our plans remain the same except I will now start the daunting task of finding a PSAT site and will add test prep to the docket in future years.  It may be that everything will look the same.  Half price at the local university may very well still be the best deal we can find even if dd does qualify for merit aid.  Especially since we can reduce housing costs.  It is highly ranked in the degree programs she is interested in and is also highly competitive in her chosen sport, so it is a good choice regardless of cost savings.

 

We don't pay for test prep, but I do spend time to ensure that my kids know the format of the test.  We work on skills like pacing through both individual sections and the test as a whole.  We discuss strategies like answering what you know and feeling free to move past questions they have no idea on.  We use practice tests to identify areas where they are weak.  Some of these areas are things they learned once but have forgotten.  Some are concepts we've never really touched on.  Sometimes it's just a matter of understanding what a particular style of question is asking for.

 

When my oldest was preparing for his drivers license test, we talked to friends about what things had caused their kids to fail the driver test.  We read the driver manual to know what would be expected.  We looked at videos that highlighted the road test route and we drove it a couple times for familiarity.  

 

I don't think that the SAT or ACT is the last word in what makes a worth human being, but it does have some good correlation to readiness for college work in broad strokes.  I think it's not a waste of time to come into the test prepared to do well on it.

[katilac]

99th percentile on this does not necessarily translate into the same for ACT/SAT, because this test includes students at all levels, and ACT/SAT will have a much higher percentage of students in college prep (not all, because some schools give the test to everyone). 

 

However, it's certainly an excellent score and an excellent sign of how she may do. A great ACT score means my oldest is only paying for her meal plan at an OOS university. A not-quite-as-great score might mean my youngest gets a full ride to a local university (think good thoughts, y'all!). If she went to the same school as oldest, she would be paying meals and dorm. So, it's definitely possible that your dd could do as well or better at a different school, and it may become important to her to live on campus. 

 

You don't need to teach to the test throughout high school to do as well as possible on the ACT (I'm not familiar with SAT). The English section requires a solid knowledge of grammar and usage. The reading section requires an ability to closely read difficult text. The math requires plain old math skills - most people need to prep a bit for it, because they need to refresh their prealgebra and algebra by the time they take it. That's review, not teaching to the test, imo. Science is often regarded as tricky, but that's because people expect it to test science knowledge when it actually tests science skills. Everything that you may have to teach because your texts don't cover it well enough is well worth knowing: more close reading, getting information from charts and summaries, evaluating conflicting viewpoints. 

 

A WTM education prepares students very well for the ACT, which is a fairly sensible test imo. Both of my kids did quite well when they took the practice test at the library, and it was their first standardized test ever. However, we did allot some time before the real test for prep and practice tests. We felt that is was very worth the while to get the best possible scores because it resulted in both more choices and more money - their combined merit aid will add up to well over six figures, even if youngest gets the lower scholarship. I mean, I love a free and unhindered education, but I also love vacations and retirement, lol. 

 

Working toward the best possible score means different things to different students. For oldest, who is a clutch performer who doesn't think "over-prepared" is a word, it meant a good bit of prep and practice tests. For youngest, it meant less prep and practice, because thinking about it too much just made her anxious and would have hindered her performance. They both took it just one time, because they had the scores they needed for specific scholarships. Youngest could have tried for a higher score for the competitive scholarship, but she met the requirement and we felt like her score was representative of her as a student. Also, if you already have a high score, it's harder to improve - 26 to 28 is much easier than 30 to 32. 

 

So, while I do keep one eye on the main chance, I don't let standardized testing take over our lives. Most of the stuff tested on ACT is stuff they would be learning anyway, and we found adding in some prep and practice tests to be very manageable. I think it's more manageable when you homeschool, because I would always give them an easier day or two before they took a practice test. There is a certain amount of gaming the system involved, because yes, it does help to know tricks like letter of the day and it does help to take a practice test and learn the format of the test, but it was nothing I was uncomfortable with, and nothing that altered our educational plan. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by katilac

[domesticidyll]

I think the new sat asks pretty good questions, actually. Last year DS and I spent a little time working on SAT prep and a little time looking at questions for the state tests, and the SAT questions were much smarter and more interesting, actually kind of fun.

 

The national merit score counts the English score twice, so it's a good fit for a Latin kiddo.

[mjbucks1]

I do think it would be worth taking the PSAT. My ds scored in the 99th percentile every year on the ITBS from 2nd to 4th grade. For fun I had him take the real ACT in 5th grade and he scored a 22 without prep. By the time he was a sophomore he scored a 32 on the ACT without prep and at the commended level on the PSAT. I had him do test prep the summer between his sophomore and junior year, and he scored a 34 on the ACT and scored high enough on the PSAT to make NMF. He now has a near full ride at UA. It was definitely worth the time he spent during the summer doing test prep!!!