Your experiences being vegetarian

[OrganicJen]

People grow veg here all year round, it gets down to about -10 to 15 in January and February. That's under glass or plastic but without and electricity or heat - like straw-bales and plastic sheeting or windows over top.

 

It's not what I'd call varied - you're really growing some hardy veg like kale that supplements your roots and stored food. And if you start winter veg early so they are about grown when winter starts, they will stay nice in the ground in these little grow-beds. They won't actually grow any more, it is too cold, but they will be very edible, sometimes even nicer than before the cold.

You're right, some veggies get sweeter from the cold. We keep certain veggies in the ground for winter and just dig up as we need them. In fact I did that today for some beets for dinner.

[nevergiveup]

Farmers market here runs May through October - because this is the season when stuff grows here.

I like shopping the farmers market, even though produce is way more expensive than store bought, because I like to support local farms.  But besides locally produced eggs, there is no local food available in the winter. Except for frozen meat.

 

People seem to have the opinion of farmer's markets as being these wholesome food utopias.

I have a friend who grows produce for the farmer's market and claims that a lot of the produce sold there is not grown by locals but purchased in bulk at wholesale places.  Maybe even Costco.

But, they jack up the price and people think it is local and therefore, healthier.

 

[OrganicJen]

People seem to have the opinion of farmer's markets as being these wholesome food utopias.

I have a friend who grows produce for the farmer's market and claims that a lot of the produce sold there is not grown by locals but purchased in bulk at wholesale places. Maybe even Costco.

But, they jack up the price and people think it is local and therefore, healthier.

 

That's awful...I believe it though as I've learned that people are not as honest as I used to believe. I was traveling once and accidentally bought fruit at a stand and it had stickers on it from a supermarket. Edited December 22, 2017 by OrganicJen

[SparklyUnicorn]

People seem to have the opinion of farmer's markets as being these wholesome food utopias.

I have a friend who grows produce for the farmer's market and claims that a lot of the produce sold there is not grown by locals but purchased in bulk at wholesale places.  Maybe even Costco.

But, they jack up the price and people think it is local and therefore, healthier.

 

 

hence my "foo foo" comment

 

Which, I don't blame these people. It's a living...it's a way to earn money...it's a business.  We all seek this in one way or another.  Farmer's markets can be fun and interesting.  But around here...foo foo for foo foo budgets.  Not something to go bragging about the fact they take food stamps or exaggerating that the produce they sell is healthier than the produce at Shop and Plop.  That's just not true!

[SparklyUnicorn]

That's awful...I believe it though as I've learned that people are not as honest as I used to believe. I was traveling once and accidentally bought fruit at a stand and it had stickers on it from a supermarket.

 

Yeah at least don't be sloppy if you misrepresent something.  LOL

[Sandwalker]

For me the issue is that vegetarianism relies on farm based, agriculture based eating. As in, grains, beans, etc. You couldn't drop a person off in the wilderness in most places and expect them to survive without eating animal products. You can kill and eat a bird or snake or fox or catch fish and be well fed. You can't live off of prairie grasses and pine needles for very long. Areas with lots of wild fruit would be an exception I would imagine. So then I have to decide if I think a grain/legume based, post agriculture diet is a good one for me health wise. And that is where I get stuck. And yet, if one can live without killing animals, perhaps one should, even if it isn't optimal?

Yes.

[SparklyUnicorn]

 And yet, if one can live without killing animals, perhaps one should, even if it isn't optimal?

 

Maybe. I think people tend to eat what they like eating.  It's not much of a sacrifice for someone who doesn't like meat all that much or is rather lukewarm about it to go vegan or vegetarian.  I love meat.  I eat a lot less these days for no reason other than for whatever reason I find I don't want as much, but I still like eating it.  I don't know what in hell I'd eat otherwise.  I eat lots of veg, but I don't eat much in the way of grains soooo...what else is there?  Fake soy meat?  No thanks. 

[Greta]

I did a quick google search and didn't come up with that anywhere, so if you find something at some point, feel free to update.  It's not a "need" for me.  It's pure curiosity and an update on info if it changes.  ;)

 

 

 

I did a quick search this morning and found nada also.  It made me wonder if I'd just dreamed it up!  But I don't think so because I remember the source saying that it wasn't because the people of Loma Linda had gotten healthier, but because the people of Okinawa have gotten a little less healthy, and so dropped behind them in the rankings.  I don't think my own mind would have created that detail!  Nevertheless, I can't find it, so I'm going to assume you were right and I was wrong.  And I appreciate the correction.  I do want to have my facts straight!

[eternalsummer]

I love bacon.  I love butter.  I love full fat ice cream and real yogurt and goat's milk and hardboiled eggs.  I love pecan pie :)  I like pizza with real cheese.

 

If I made a list of my favorite foods, it would be:

Iced black tea, a little sweetened, no lemon

New York lox bagel - bagel, cream cheese (real cream cheese), lox, capers, tomatoes, onions

Creme Brulee

Pecan Pie

Banana Cream Pie

Tres Leches Cake

Club Sandwich - turkey, bread, cheddar (a nice sharp cheddar), bacon, lettuce, tomato

Salt Pork - my dad used to make this, I think it's just very salty very fatty bacon that he would fry in these little cubes and we'd eat them with biscuits

hardboiled eggs with salt and pepper

pepperoni pizza, regular crust

Chicago style pizza, with the sauce on top

honeycrisp apples

 

 

 

Of those things, what I still eat, ever, in my life, is honeycrisp apples and iced tea.

 

 

 I don't eat what I like eating.

[OrganicJen]

Maybe. I think people tend to eat what they like eating. It's not much of a sacrifice for someone who doesn't like meat all that much or is rather lukewarm about it to go vegan or vegetarian. I love meat. I eat a lot less these days for no reason other than for whatever reason I find I don't want as much, but I still like eating it. I don't know what in hell I'd eat otherwise. I eat lots of veg, but I don't eat much in the way of grains soooo...what else is there? Fake soy meat? No thanks.

One thing that happened with me was that my tastes for certain foods expanded a ton as I started growing more and more foods. I eat so many more things now that I never liked in the past. Part of it I think is I find freshly picked food from my garden so much better tasting, and also I can grow the specific varieties I like best. My son eats so many veggies that I doubt he would have tried if we weren't growing them. It's a challenge sometimes to harvest certain things before he gets to them. He loves snacking on basil leaves for instance but I need a certain amount for a batch of pesto and I have to compete with him for it lol.

[eternalsummer]

Oh, or those tasty pretzels you can get at Target and at food stands sometimes that have the gloppy orange cheese stuff.  Oh, I used to love those. 
And chicken tenders!  And mozzarella sticks.  and the number 2 burger from Sonic with the onions and the pickles and the mustard.

 

And bacon cheeseburgers.

[OrganicJen]

Oh, or those tasty pretzels you can get at Target and at food stands sometimes that have the gloppy orange cheese stuff. Oh, I used to love those.

And chicken tenders! And mozzarella sticks. and the number 2 burger from Sonic with the onions and the pickles and the mustard.

 

And bacon cheeseburgers.

Lol!

[eternalsummer]

And hot dogs with all the fixings - tomatoes and onions and relish and mustard and ketchup, all of it.  warmed up and in one of those aluminum foil wraps.

 

and pad thai.  and Thai Iced Tea, I loved thai iced tea.  I spent my last dollar many a time on thai iced tea.  And gyros with the lamb and the yogurt sauce from the gyro people in downtown christchurch, nz (I am sure they have these places in most major cities).  And white chocolate.  And macaroni and cheese from the grocery store hot bar.  and those dinner rolls they make that have butter on the top and are so soft.

 

 

eta: okay I will stop now.  I just didn't want anyone to think that people who eat very little meat and no dairy/eggs all love vegetables.  I don't like them.  I like junk food and cheese.

Edited December 22, 2017 by eternalsummer

[SparklyUnicorn]

One thing that happened with me was that my tastes for certain foods expanded a ton as I started growing more and more foods. I eat so many more things now that I never liked in the past. Part of it I think is I find freshly picked food from my garden so much better tasting, and also I can grow the specific varieties I like best. My son eats so many veggies that I doubt he would have tried if we weren't growing them. It's a challenge sometimes to harvest certain things before he gets to them. He loves snacking on basil leaves for instance but I need a certain amount for a batch of pesto and I have to compete with him for it lol.

 

That's cool.  I've always loved vegetables and even though I'm kinda picky, I'm also willing to try nearly anything.

 

Then there is the issue of dealing with picky family members!  One of my kids hates vegetables.  :crying:   But..he is not the only one in my family.  There are several like that.  What can ya do?  It is certainly not for lack of trying.  I think even he is frustrated with himself and what he can stomach.

 

And one might think well it's because he hasn't had XYZ....fresh...etc....  Well, I grew up with a mother who HATED vegetables.  They were always an afterthought and always something slopped together so she could put on the good face of caring about what we ate.  So over boiled canned veg.  I still liked them!  Meanwhile, I went to culinary school and have learned how to properly prepare vegetables.  It's something that I spend a lot of time on in terms of food prep.  That hasn't made a difference.  *sigh* 

[eternalsummer]

I have one who hates vegetables.  He will eat broccoli and frozen corn, that's about it.  He eats a lot of fruit for vitamins (frozen blueberries mostly) and a lot of grain, beans, fat.  I think he's okay.  He's skinny as can be but that is inherited from his father.  

 

I have another kid whose first inclination with anything is to eat it, food or not food.  he likes vegetables fine, but he also likes paper and crayons and seaweed.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have one who hates vegetables.  He will eat broccoli and frozen corn, that's about it.  He eats a lot of fruit for vitamins (frozen blueberries mostly) and a lot of grain, beans, fat.  I think he's okay.  He's skinny as can be but that is inherited from his father.  

 

I have another kid whose first inclination with anything is to eat it, food or not food.  he likes vegetables fine, but he also likes paper and crayons and seaweed.

 

Yeah he'll eat some fruit.  So there is that.  (Oddly I hate fruit and so does my DH.)

 

My other kid will eat anything.  He once wanted to try the cat's food.  LOL  So ya know.. he'd eat seaweed and crayons no problem too.

[ktgrok]

Maybe. I think people tend to eat what they like eating.  It's not much of a sacrifice for someone who doesn't like meat all that much or is rather lukewarm about it to go vegan or vegetarian.  I love meat.  I eat a lot less these days for no reason other than for whatever reason I find I don't want as much, but I still like eating it.  I don't know what in hell I'd eat otherwise.  I eat lots of veg, but I don't eat much in the way of grains soooo...what else is there?  Fake soy meat?  No thanks. 

 

Well, I was vegetarian for 10 years, and I love meat. Love it. Lost my taste for dairy when I stopped it, but neve lost my love of meat. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well, I was vegetarian for 10 years, and I love meat. Love it. Lost my taste for dairy when I stopped it, but neve lost my love of meat. 

 

And then there is bacon...

 

:leaving:

[hornblower]

ha, turns out I can't stay away... 

WHY is it that people who are not veg*n always come into these threads to bash it? I mean, the question is what is your experience of it and people come in to say they couldn't possibly/it's not healthy/veg*ns are rude.  

I try really really hard to not go on "look at this meat I'm eating" threads because all I could / would say would be unkind and unhelpful but mention a veg&n thread and omnis descend on it to sniff in disapproval or poke fun or start arguments. 

 

[OrganicJen]

It's hard to know what kids will eat or not it can be frustrating. With my son I would have him help with the gardening and I would talk about what different veggies were and say how he's allowed to pick leaves from this plant or pods from that plant whenever he wants and he just kind of started eating a variety of veggies on his own while playing outside and I then had him help pick the varieties for each new crop. He used to hate salad but when sampling things in the garden he tried the Merlot lettuce we grow a lot of and he liked it so I made him a salad with that and other things he loves in it and now he loves salad if I make it with his favorite varieties. Maybe part of it was the merlot lettuce is red and not green, who knows. I prefer the taste of it over other lettuce myself by far though. The toddler loves raw peas and beans...especially Lincoln garden peas and Dragon Tongue Wax beans (these are really pretty). If he is outside in summer he is always carrying around a bean or handful of peas. But not all kids would be that way at all I know, I'm sure a lot of it is luck really.

[OrganicJen]

Yeah he'll eat some fruit. So there is that. (Oddly I hate fruit and so does my DH.)

 

My other kid will eat anything. He once wanted to try the cat's food. LOL So ya know.. he'd eat seaweed and crayons no problem too.

Lol...my toddler tries to feed me things like that all the time.

[creekland]

I did a quick search this morning and found nada also.  It made me wonder if I'd just dreamed it up!  But I don't think so because I remember the source saying that it wasn't because the people of Loma Linda had gotten healthier, but because the people of Okinawa have gotten a little less healthy, and so dropped behind them in the rankings.  I don't think my own mind would have created that detail!  Nevertheless, I can't find it, so I'm going to assume you were right and I was wrong.  And I appreciate the correction.  I do want to have my facts straight!

 

Same here!  Life changes.

 

FWIW, it's only women who live the longest in Okinawa.  Sardinia seems to have that spot for men.  Ikaria gets the top billing for least dementia and perhaps heart disease.  I like gleaning from all of them when figuring out my life, but I'm certainly not strict on it.  I like eating foods I like taste-wise.  I can't see the need to give anything up, esp since even in those areas not everyone makes it to old age.  We merely cut back (significantly) on those that aren't as healthy and we have upped all the other positive traits.

 

https://bluezones.com/live-longer-better/original-blue-zones/#section-2

 

One thing that happened with me was that my tastes for certain foods expanded a ton as I started growing more and more foods. I eat so many more things now that I never liked in the past. Part of it I think is I find freshly picked food from my garden so much better tasting, and also I can grow the specific varieties I like best. My son eats so many veggies that I doubt he would have tried if we weren't growing them. It's a challenge sometimes to harvest certain things before he gets to them. He loves snacking on basil leaves for instance but I need a certain amount for a batch of pesto and I have to compete with him for it lol.

 

My tastes expanded a ton merely by moving out of my childhood home.  We were raised on meat (beef, chicken, pork) and potatoes for the most part - white bread too.  Once I got to college I found a whole world of foods I hadn't been exposed to.  Traveling brought even more.  There's a ton I enjoy now.  It's weird heading back home where life still revolves around what meat is being served and white bread sandwiches.  We bring our own bread to have better tasting options.  I'm ok with meat and some of the dishes are even nostalgic, so definitely not a problem - just not the way we live at home.  At home we have Taco (salad) Thursday at a local Mexican place, Pho Friday at a local Korean place and oodles of dishes of our own we create including things like kale, lima beans, broccoli, etc, that I just never grew up with.

 

My kids eat pretty much anything and always have.  They ditched kids menus at restaurants while still in their young elementary ages (who wants chicken fingers over and over again???).  Some like more than I do. I don't like crabs, sushi, or heavily spiced (hot spice) anything.

 

But my sister?  She still eats the same things (or less) that we grew up with.  She will say "yuck" at anything new I suggest without even trying it.  I have no idea what makes our personalities so different.

[creekland]

ha, turns out I can't stay away... 

 

WHY is it that people who are not veg*n always come into these threads to bash it? I mean, the question is what is your experience of it and people come in to say they couldn't possibly/it's not healthy/veg*ns are rude.  

 

I try really really hard to not go on "look at this meat I'm eating" threads because all I could / would say would be unkind and unhelpful but mention a veg&n thread and omnis descend on it to sniff in disapproval or poke fun or start arguments. 

 

Because we're answering the question?  It's not a JAWM thread.  It's a questioning one and I, personally, answered the question from my point of view.  I never once dissed anyone who chooses differently.  I don't at school or elsewhere either.  I also don't diss the other end of the spectrum from those who feel meat only diets are the best, but I will disagree with them if asked for my experience (which is science based).

[OrganicJen]

Same here! Life changes.

 

FWIW, it's only women who live the longest in Okinawa. Sardinia seems to have that spot for men. Ikaria gets the top billing for least dementia and perhaps heart disease. I like gleaning from all of them when figuring out my life, but I'm certainly not strict on it. I like eating foods I like taste-wise. I can't see the need to give anything up, esp since even in those areas not everyone makes it to old age. We merely cut back (significantly) on those that aren't as healthy and we have upped all the other positive traits.

 

https://bluezones.com/live-longer-better/original-blue-zones/#section-2

 

 

My tastes expanded a ton merely by moving out of my childhood home. We were raised on meat (beef, chicken, pork) and potatoes for the most part - white bread too. Once I got to college I found a whole world of foods I hadn't been exposed to. Traveling brought even more. There's a ton I enjoy now. It's weird heading back home where life still revolves around what meat is being served and white bread sandwiches. We bring our own bread to have better tasting options. I'm ok with meat and some of the dishes are even nostalgic, so definitely not a problem - just not the way we live at home. At home we have Taco (salad) Thursday at a local Mexican place, Pho Friday at a local Korean place and oodles of dishes of our own we create including things like kale, lima beans, broccoli, etc, that I just never grew up with.

 

My kids eat pretty much anything and always have. They ditched kids menus at restaurants while still in their young elementary ages (who wants chicken fingers over and over again???). Some like more than I do. I don't like crabs, sushi, or heavily spiced (hot spice) anything.

 

But my sister? She still eats the same things (or less) that we grew up with. She will say "yuck" at anything new I suggest without even trying it. I have no idea what makes our personalities so different.

I aim for as much variety as possible to hopefully get a variety of nutrients. I do the same thing where I try to take what positives I can from each study about which food is healthy etc. I'm really addicted to growing heirloom veggies honestly and have found so many more veggies I love by experimenting with less known varieties. In some ways I think I condition my brain to love veggies by how I have made them a large part of my life. This time of year my new seed catalogs arive and I start dreaming about and marking the pages of which varieties to try next. Then in spring it's fun to plan what goes where and how much to grow of this or that and what plants are good companions to plant near each other. Then when things are growing it's really exciting to watch their development and see how beautiful some veggies are. So I think after all that, when I eat it my brain is already telling me I like it lol.

[ktgrok]

ha, turns out I can't stay away... 

 

WHY is it that people who are not veg*n always come into these threads to bash it? I mean, the question is what is your experience of it and people come in to say they couldn't possibly/it's not healthy/veg*ns are rude.  

 

I try really really hard to not go on "look at this meat I'm eating" threads because all I could / would say would be unkind and unhelpful but mention a veg&n thread and omnis descend on it to sniff in disapproval or poke fun or start arguments. 

 

 

 

She asked people's experiences. Many of us contributing do have experience with it, even if we are not now vegetarian or vegan. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Maybe. I think people tend to eat what they like eating.  It's not much of a sacrifice for someone who doesn't like meat all that much or is rather lukewarm about it to go vegan or vegetarian.  I love meat.  I eat a lot less these days for no reason other than for whatever reason I find I don't want as much, but I still like eating it.  I don't know what in hell I'd eat otherwise.  I eat lots of veg, but I don't eat much in the way of grains soooo...what else is there?  Fake soy meat?  No thanks. 

 

 

Actually, I really loved cheese. It was, without a doubt, the hardest thing for me to stop eating. After a couple of decades, I still miss it, especially when I am already feeling like the world kicked me in the teeth (like I have felt the last couple of months). 

 

I'm not proud of this, but I actually cried the other night on the way home from work when I drove past a restaurant and smelled pizza. 

 

But I don't eat it because I believe in my heart that it's wrong to do so.

[Jenny in Florida]

ha, turns out I can't stay away... 

 

WHY is it that people who are not veg*n always come into these threads to bash it? I mean, the question is what is your experience of it and people come in to say they couldn't possibly/it's not healthy/veg*ns are rude.  

 

I try really really hard to not go on "look at this meat I'm eating" threads because all I could / would say would be unkind and unhelpful but mention a veg&n thread and omnis descend on it to sniff in disapproval or poke fun or start arguments. 

 

 

 

I suspect it comes from the same impulse as when people can't wait to tell homeschoolers how they, themselves, "could never do that" or "know this one homeschooler who is 13 and can't read/wait in line/raise his hand before speaking/dress himself" or think it's "unhealthy to shelter kids from the real world" or whatever the latest trendy "concern" might be.

 

Some folks seem to see any "counterculture" choice as being some kind of threat that must be hunted down and discredited.

[Rosie_0801]

I don't know what I'd do with dehydrated foods.  I avoid them because they tend to have too many carbs and sugar. 

 

 

My aunt used to dehydrate celery, alliums, herbs etc to make stock powder.

[creekland]

I suspect it comes from the same impulse as when people can't wait to tell homeschoolers how they, themselves, "could never do that" or "know this one homeschooler who is 13 and can't read/wait in line/raise his hand before speaking/dress himself" or think it's "unhealthy to shelter kids from the real world" or whatever the latest trendy "concern" might be.

 

Some folks seem to see any "counterculture" choice as being some kind of threat that must be hunted down and discredited.

 

Or... it comes from folks like myself who like to hear all sides and consider various pros and cons when contemplating something new whether it's a diet or homeschooling or a school of thought on child rearing or vaccines or... anything.

 

We assume when someone is asking a question without a JAWM that the OP is truly looking for all aspects of the way folks think about things or have experienced them and aren't looking solely for folks with one opinion.  They are looking to increase their knowledge about the subject from all angles.

 

We also trust that anyone considering something can read through various pros and cons and decide for themselves which way they want to go based upon how much they align with those thoughts.

[Jenny in Florida]

Or... it comes from folks like myself who like to hear all sides and consider various pros and cons when contemplating something new whether it's a diet or homeschooling or a school of thought on child rearing or vaccines or... anything.

 

We assume when someone is asking a question without a JAWM that the OP is truly looking for all aspects of the way folks think about things or have experienced them and aren't looking solely for folks with one opinion.  They are looking to increase their knowledge about the subject from all angles.

 

We also trust that anyone considering something can read through various pros and cons and decide for themselves which way they want to go based upon how much they align with those thoughts.

 

I think the thing that is off-putting is that the OP asked about "your experiences being vegetarian," but some folks who don't seem to have ever actually tried being vegetarian have piled on with a pretty negative tone.

 

There's a huge difference between, "Yeah, I tried that and it didn't work for me because X" and "Well, I have this one neighbor who tried it and was obnoxious about it, and therefore I think it sucks."

[Sandwalker]

Opinions are what were asked for, and of course most people are not veg*n, so I'd expect to hear from ex-vegetarians, flexatarians, pescetarians, etc. The unhelpful comments are those that wrongly declare veg*nism not healthy or not good for the planet.

 

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes..." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19562864/

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/vegetarian-diets-linked-lower-mortality

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

[Sandwalker]

 

 

Climate Change

 

How Your Diet Can Save the Planet

 

By Matthew Prescott July 19, 2017

 

..." But the reality is that combating climate change is largely a matter of personal responsibility—and one of the easiest and best steps we can take concerns what we put on our plates.

 

Take protein, for example. Worldwide, over 80 billion land animals are farmed for food. To produce just a single pound of meat, those animals may each eat upwards of 15 pounds of feed—meaning mass meat production funnels far more resources through animals than it gets out of them. One report from the World Resources Institute found that even the most efficient sources of meat convert only around 11% of feed energy into human food.

 

And to grow all that animal feed, the industry is constantly converting more native lands to agricultural operations—burning and clear-cutting the Amazon and other forests to make way for feed fields. Today, a whopping 30% of Earth’s landmass goes to meat, dairy, and egg production, according to the United Nations. As the UN also reports, livestock production causes “an even larger contribution†to climate change “than the transportation sector worldwide.†That’s right: Factory farmed animals contribute more to climate change than all the world’s cars, trucks, trains, planes, and ships combined.

 

And those calculations don’t even include seafood—which is a huge omission. According to data from 1999 to 2007, between 0.97 and 2.74 trillion fish were taken from the oceans annually, dredged up in nets many miles long that are pulled by ships burning huge quantities of fossil fuels. This means that emissions from animal proteins in our diet—land and sea combined—are substantially higher than the already very high numbers commonly reported.

 

It’s also a thirsty system: According to Water Footprint Network data, it takes over 2,000 gallons of water to produce a single steak and over 800 gallons to produce a single glass of milk. Nearly 600 gallons are used to produce just one pound of chicken meat, and nearly 400 gallons go into just one egg..."

http://fortune.com/2017/07/19/climate-change-vegan-vegetarian-diet-humane-society/

[eternalsummer]

I find that almost impossible to believe about 30% of the earth's landmass going to meat/dairy/egg production.  Can that be true?  It must just be living in the West (as in the American West), but it seems like there are vast swaths of emptiness broken by tiny farmed areas.

 

eta: went to look and it seems to be completely true.  Wow!  Somehow I thought humans inhabited or used like 10% of the earth.  Obviously we haven't done a lot of comprehensive (in lieu of site-specific) geography study yet.

Edited December 23, 2017 by eternalsummer

[amy g.]

I remember being mostly vegetarian as a child. I might have tuna or grilled fish for dinner, but every single day for lunch I had carrots, cheddar cheese, and an orange.

 

I was diagnosed with hypoglycemia when I was still in high school.

 

When I became an adult, I spent decades as a vegetarian. I was eating mostly whole, plant foods with an occasional whole grain pasta or bread, but no fast food or sugar at all.

 

Looking back, I feel like this high carb, medium protein, low fat diet was the worst possible choice for my particular body.

 

When I was pregnant with my oldest, I passed out at the doctors and appeared to be seizing. I was again diagnosed with hypoglycemia, but this time, I was given some direction about how to eat to reduce the symptoms. I started eating meat, but vegetables continued being the bulk of my diet.

 

When my son was 3, he decided to become an ethical vegetarian. I wish I could link the WTM post here, but it was on the old, old, old, board.

 

Contrary to the advice I received, I fully respected the right of a 3 year old to eat to his own moral standard. I spent the next 10 years making sure that he had food free from any animal products.

 

I have also raised my family’s food with a huge garden, laying hens, jersey cow, and dairy goats. I know what it costs in time and money to produce ethically raised food because I have paid it.

 

I also have 2 kids with celiac.

 

I have to feed them differently than I do my vegetarian kid.

 

For me, a vegetarian diet was not meeting my health needs. I do not doubt that for others, it absolutely does.

 

I think that it is best when we know ourselves but don’t extrapolate that out and assume that the rest of humanity is just like us.

[Laura Corin]

I find that almost impossible to believe about 30% of the earth's landmass going to meat/dairy/egg production. Can that be true? It must just be living in the West (as in the American West), but it seems like there are vast swaths of emptiness broken by tiny farmed areas.

 

eta: went to look and it seems to be completely true. Wow! Somehow I thought humans inhabited or used like 10% of the earth. Obviously we haven't done a lot of comprehensive (in lieu of site-specific) geography study yet.

A country like Britain is pretty intensively farmed. Even the National Parks have large areas of sheep grazing, etc. There's very little, if any, true wilderness. Edited December 23, 2017 by Laura Corin

[displace]

As an aside, why is vegan typed veg*n? My brain wants to interpret it as a naughty word. ðŸ§ðŸ˜†

[Rosie_0801]

I find that almost impossible to believe about 30% of the earth's landmass going to meat/dairy/egg production.  Can that be true?  It must just be living in the West (as in the American West), but it seems like there are vast swaths of emptiness broken by tiny farmed areas.

 

There are some enormous sheep and cattle stations in Australia. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_stations_in_Australia

[Rosie_0801]

As an aside, why is vegan typed veg*n? My brain wants to interpret it as a naughty word. 🧐😆

 

It's shorter to type than vegan/vegetarian.

[displace]

It's shorter to type than vegan/vegetarian.

So it means vegetarian too? I’ve been reading it as vegan this whole time.

 

Ugh!

[eternalsummer]

Me too, displace!  

 

I asked DH what percentage of the Earth's landmass he thought was farmed or used for agriculture and he said 4%.

 

I think it is living in the American West that does it.

[Laura Corin]

Me too, displace!

 

I asked DH what percentage of the Earth's landmass he thought was farmed or used for agriculture and he said 4%.

 

I think it is living in the American West that does it.

How much if what you are seeing is actually grazed? Much US natural flora is poor grazing for cattle, so the animals are widely spaced, or so I learned on my tour of a Texas ranch.

 

ETA 56 per cent of the UK is agricultural land.

https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/land-cover-atlas-uk-1.744440

Edited December 23, 2017 by Laura Corin

[Pawz4me]

It's shorter to type than vegan/vegetarian.

 

No, that can't be right. Can it?

 

First, veg*n has the same number of characters to type as vegan. I'm not yet fully caffeinated, but I count five characters in both.

 

Second, vegan and vegetarian aren't the same thing at all, so in no way can veg*n logically be shorthand for vegetarian. Or if it does it's an incredibly strange shorthand. It'd be kind of like using men to mean males and m*n to mean females. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Pawz4me

[creekland]

There's a huge difference between, "Yeah, I tried that and it didn't work for me because X" and "Well, I have this one neighbor who tried it and was obnoxious about it, and therefore I think it sucks."

 

I agree with this for sure, but I guess I also fairly quickly overlook those posts.  I think the posts that have shared reasoning and actual pros/cons are quite worthy though.

 

It might be annoying to hear what other people think about homeschooling - the disses they give it - but the info also helped me with my homeschooling, knowing such feelings were out there, being sure actual schooling got done, and socialization opportunities were there, etc.  When middle son met an anti-homeschooling prof in college (and was denied a TA job solely due to homeschooling), it stung, but we knew that possibility existed and he was educated/socialized enough to perhaps break some ice in that prof's mind.  A couple of years later they were good (professional) friends.

 

When we do things, others notice.  That can be helpful information since no one probably wants to be that obnoxious friend turning people off.

 

It gets old hearing about the same things over and over again when one is a regular reader, but not everyone is.  Some folks are learning about things for the first time.  As a regular reader of certain types of threads, I've learned to more or less gloss over some posts - very lightly skimming.

[creekland]

If anyone is interested in land usage, here's a neat chart and website:

 

https://ourworldindata.org/yields-and-land-use-in-agriculture/#breakdown-of-global-land-area-today

 

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by creekland

[creekland]

This is neat putting it into perspective too (same source):

 

[creekland]

There is a lot of neat data and charts on that site!

[Sandwalker]

As an aside, why is vegan typed veg*n? My brain wants to interpret it as a naughty word. ðŸ§ðŸ˜†

It is an abbreviation for "vegan or vegetarian", just to be shorter to type.

[hornblower]

It is an abbreviation for "vegan or vegetarian", just to be shorter to type.

 

^ 

 

I'm the person who tends to use this and yes, that's it. 

 

Yes vegans and vegetarians are significantly different from each other (& are different again from people who eat plant-based) but they're similar when comparing/contrasting to omnivores. 

[OlgaLA]

I tried vegan diet about 20 years ago. Ended up with terrible stomach pains, although I was doing everything right. Later, whenever I tried to get more vegetables into my diet I inevitably get low stomach acid, so all those nutritious veggies just sit in my stomach and irritate me. Usually, I forget it after a while, and try again, like right now. I feel like I have yesterday's lunch of lentil soup and salad still in my stomach. It will take a few days to normalize. If any vegans/vegetarians can suggest plant foods that raise acid, I am listening. I know dairy does it, and I do get quite a bit of it, but once I start eating more vegetables, it stops being enough.

[hornblower]

I tried vegan diet about 20 years ago. Ended up with terrible stomach pains, although I was doing everything right. Later, whenever I tried to get more vegetables into my diet I inevitably get low stomach acid, so all those nutritious veggies just sit in my stomach and irritate me. Usually, I forget it after a while, and try again, like right now. I feel like I have yesterday's lunch of lentil soup and salad still in my stomach. It will take a few days to normalize. If any vegans/vegetarians can suggest plant foods that raise acid, I am listening. I know dairy does it, and I do get quite a bit of it, but once I start eating more vegetables, it stops being enough.

Digestion is only partly dependent on acid. In fact, the majority of digestion is an enzymatic process which only starts in the stomach (where the function of the acidity is partly to stimulate the secretion of the pepsinogen enzyme to begin breaking down proteins) and has little to do with acid. 

 

Most of digestion happens in the duoedenum and the rest of the small intestine and that environment is entirely basic. 

 

So I think you're attributing your symptoms to something that doesn't actually reflect the biology of digestion. 

 

Complex carbohydrates such as legumes can take more time to digest - esp I think if your gut flora is not accustomed to them. 

Our guts also need to adapt to dealing with high fiber.  However, hIgh fiber plant foods generally spend less time in the digestive tract (this is believed to be part of the reason why diets high in veg and plant fiber are associated with lower colon cancer risk). 

 

I'd suggest you consult with a registered dietitian (not a nutritionist) &/or a gastroenterologist to investigate your issue.